congratulations Kimi....

[russdaz]

it must have been because i can hardly remember it

what call yourself a motorsport fan!!!! lol

Schumy had a fantastic drive after starting 10th a suffering a puncture during the race, he needed to win and Alsono to score no points. One of the best performances of year by Schumy.#

just found this to refresh your mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Brazilian_Grand_Prix

 

[Yv]

lol, i would (no offence)

although you are right in what you say, but there is huge avatange in cooler fuel, in the same way as being able fill the tank more it will flow through the injectors quicker, and it will cool the overall fuel mix, the cooler the mix, the more mix you can push into the cylinders. The more mix in the cylinders and cooler the charge the longer you can leave spark, this equates to huge power increase. Thats why people running big boost turbos often put dry ice in there charge coolers.

Whilst I understand that fully, what I don't understand is how they kept the fuel cool. When they say the varience on all the cars was between 14 and 12 degrees [as opposed the the regulation 10] was that the fuel going in at the stops, and if so, how long would they have had an advantage for bearing in mind the high track temps at Brazil today?


Still, either way, they couldnt quite manage to close the tent flaps on the circus as soon as the chequered flag fell could they! Frankly it would be rather nice if the whole of this season was just erased from the record books and our minds....but hey hoooooo....

 

[Ratty]

was that the fuel going in at the stops, and if so, how long would they have had an advantage for bearing in mind the high track temps at Brazil today?

Yes it was when refueling. So the temp advantage wouldn't have been that great for very long it would still have been a continuous advantage.

Still, either way, they couldnt quite manage to close the tent flaps on the circus as soon as the chequered flag fell could they!

 

[Yv]

Result confirmed! No punishment, Kimi is WDC.

 

[Ratty]

Thank **** for that.

Any end is better than none.

 

[antihero]

thought as much...it would have been a bit cruel (even if justified) to take it away from him.

 

[Jim Graham]

:nono:Lewis Hamilton will not get the stewards decision. why? ______his car is not red ,Fi rules only apply when it suits ferrari. If roles had been reversed the Ferrari team would have been moaning thier bag off to get thier way.

 

[russdaz]

The fuel temps referd to here where indeed the the fuel being put into the car, but in the past things like dry ice has been used.

Mclearn have appealed, so it still isnt over yet.

Plus theres still the customer car debate going on, i believe Super Aguri, and Toro Rosso could still yet be striped of the points this year.

 

[Yv]

Be interesting to see who is really pulling the strings on that one, because I am not convinced it's Williams - if the small gods wanted customer cars, SFW would have been quietly told to be quiet by now.

I am also quite unimpressed by McLaren appealing the fuel temps decision, I, and I think many fans, would have liked to have seen a line drawn under this season once and for all, and McLaren are possibly the wrong team to be appealing anything at the moment, even if they are technically correct to do so. Even at the height of the hearings etc, McLaren were seen to conduct themselves with as much dignity as possible, its shame this would seem to lower the tone despite the possible [but unlikely] results of a successful appeal

 

[paul cull-pearce]

The stewards deemed the evidence inconclusive, they opted not to impose any penalties and upheld the original result, confirming Raikkonen as champion. It looks like McLaren team intends to challenge the stewards’ ruling in the FIA’s International Court of Appeal – leaving the title result hanging in the balance once again.

But lets see what happens...

Well done and a good drive from Kimi and well done to Hamilton 2nd best in the world for his first season in F1.

Paul

 

[Gary]

it keeps slipping my mind that i dont even like F1 and i shouldnt even care that Kimi won
I dont think i would have been happy whoever won... although maybe would have been good to see Massa win.

 

[Ratty]

Rob, this is the sort of comment I was refering to previously.

:nono:Lewis Hamilton will not get the stewards decision. why? ______his car is not red ,Fi rules only apply when it suits ferrari. If roles had been reversed the Ferrari team would have been moaning thier bag off to get thier way.

If you actually looked at the facts first you'd realise that it was the circuit stewards and nothing to do with the FIA. The appeal will go to the FIA, they've had no input so far.



As LL says, this season has been farcical enough already. Time to move on.

 

[nilagin]

I am also quite unimpressed by McLaren appealing the fuel temps decision, I, and I think many fans, would have liked to have seen a line drawn under this season once and for all, and McLaren are possibly the wrong team to be appealing anything at the moment, even if they are technically correct to do so. Even at the height of the hearings etc, McLaren were seen to conduct themselves with as much dignity as possible, its shame this would seem to lower the tone despite the possible [but unlikely] results of a successful appeal

The way I see it, if Lewis or Alonso had won the Championship it would have been slightly hollow in respect of the previous controversy and Ferrari would be for ever bleeting that the drivers should have lost their points too. I think McLaren know that the decision will probably be upheld and give Kimi the hollow win because he has now won it out of Contoversy. Dare I say it I believe Ron Dennis and his team have allowed Kimi to win to avoid the empty win for Lewis or Alonso.
It's a shame Massa didn't have a chance of winning, I rate him higher than Kimi. Kimi hasn't produced anything special really other than being able to drive a fast car. Massa has however proved he can also drive the same fast car but also fight wheel to wheel with other drivers. Short of more controversy or freaky luck in future seasons I can't see Kimi winning any more championships.

 

[whitewash]

Mclaren lost points and results in 1997 with mika hakkinen for a similar infringement, so i think you can understand why they are appealing the decision, but i agree, lets close the book on f12007 and start again next year as im bored of it now and its all been decided off the track rather than on it and thats not how racing should be undertaken!


anyway on to more pressing matters.......... Mon the Gronholm!

 

[Ross]

Be interesting to see who is really pulling the strings on that one, because I am not convinced it's Williams - if the small gods wanted customer cars, SFW would have been quietly told to be quiet by now.

I am also quite unimpressed by McLaren appealing the fuel temps decision, I, and I think many fans, would have liked to have seen a line drawn under this season once and for all, and McLaren are possibly the wrong team to be appealing anything at the moment, even if they are technically correct to do so. Even at the height of the hearings etc, McLaren were seen to conduct themselves with as much dignity as possible, its shame this would seem to lower the tone despite the possible [but unlikely] results of a successful appeal

If the roles were reversed and a McLaren driver had won, do you not think Ferrari would do anything other than appeal against the decision?

 

[nilagin]

anyway on to more pressing matters.......... Mon the Gronholm!

Agreed that is a double I'd like to see. If there's any extra T-Shirts going this year let me know. If the yhave a sale on the mechandise site like last year they could be sold on there. I'm sure plenty of fans would snap them up.

 

[Ratty]

Dare I say it I believe Ron Dennis and his team have allowed Kimi to win to avoid the empty win for Lewis or Alonso.

So why consider appealing against it then?
Doesn't make any sense.

 

[h.r.ford]

anyway on to more pressing matters.......... Mon the Gronholm!

Yes the WORLD SERIES (Go Red Sox)

 

[Yv]

If the roles were reversed and a McLaren driver had won, do you not think Ferrari would do anything other than appeal against the decision?

No of course not, I would expect nothing less [or more depending on your viewpoint] than tone lowering from Ferrari

 

[nilagin]

So why consider appealing against it then?
Doesn't make any sense.

Simple enough it now means that Kimi has won on a technicality if the desicion remains.

 

[whiteflyer]

Ron Denis wants to keep his mouth shut, if he wants cars DQ'd for breaking the rules then Hamilton is out for the two sets of wet tyres.
Has anyone worked out who would have been manufacturer champion if McLaren had kept their points.

 

[Ratty]

It does seem that if the red team do anything they should get punished more yet if McLaren do something they shouldn't get punished as much.
Double standards are prevalent and help no-one.

I think this year alone should demonstrate that sitting in your greenhouse throwing stones isn't always the best option.

 

[nilagin]

Ron Denis wants to keep his mouth shut, if he wants cars DQ'd for breaking the rules then Hamilton is out for the two sets of wet tyres.
Has anyone worked out who would have been manufacturer champion if McLaren had kept their points.

McLaren, Honda and Super Aguri gained no advantage by using two sets of wet tyres, especially as they had no rain in the race and the tyres were handed back anyway. The teams did however receive a fine for breach of the regulations. However using the fuel at cooler temperatures does gain an advantage especially as it was used in the race where as the tyres were only used in free practice.
Why has no more been said about Ferrari's illegal floor at the start of the season?
Ferrari's Constructors Championship trophy may just as well be made out of plastic for all it's worth.
I hope Lewis doesn't win the Championship as a result of the appeal. It would have been great for him to win in his rookie year, but this year has been turned into a farce by Ferrari and the inconsistencies of their FIA puppets. Hope Ferrari have many years of enjoyment admiring their plastic trophys at least they'll never tarnish and no one will have to clean them.

 

[Ratty]

Well that's my point proven anyway .

 

[dazzajl]

really, everything actually worked out just as it should have done given all the absolute nonsense that's gone on this year.

We all know all the teams "cheat" as much as they think they will get away with. It's such a competitive circus and any advantage can mean millions to a teams budget, so it's pretty obvious that everyone will hard pushed to resist an oportunity to gain the upper hand.

McLaren have made soooooo many mistakes this year on just about every single level and they've been bitten hard.

At least they can take some consolation from the fact that it all happened in a single season and get on with doing it right next year. Even if they will get a lot of stick for doing it from the cheap seats.

......and besides, even if they do win the appeal, we all know that it's only going to be constructors points that will be ammended.

Kimi is champ, I reckon he will remain champ and will rightly have No1 on the nose of his Fiat next year.

 

[nilagin]

McLaren have made soooooo many mistakes this year on just about every single level and they've been bitten hard.

Two mistakes to be exact.
1. Keeping Lewis out too long on worn out tyres on a wet track
2. Fitting a 2nd set of wet tyres in free practice.
Maybe a 3rd, actually trying to appeal to the Ferrari puppets and being expected to be treated to comparable fairness.
You are grossly mistaken if you think anything won by Ferrari this year was done on the race track.
I'm not bitter that Lewis didn't win, just the way in which Ferrari have won.

 

[dazzajl]

You are grossly mistaken if you think anything won by Ferrari this year was done on the race track

The races were won by the drivers but I totally agree both championships were gifted by McLaren.

There are many more mistakes though, the biggest being allowing people in the team to have a private agenda and keep hold of the ferrari data. Then there was the woeful management of alfgonzo, there really was no need for things to get that out of hand.

....and a small one by comparison (but my personal fave)was Ron's quote after the Chinese GP when questioned about the tyre tactics and saying "WE weren't racing the ferraris, we were racing alonso".

I like McLaren and I do hope they bite back from the shed they'll have down at the very bottom of the pit lane next year. There is no getting away from the fact though that they had it all....... and threw it away.

 

[spannerdude]

Be interesting to see who is really pulling the strings on that one, because I am not convinced it's Williams - if the small gods wanted customer cars, SFW would have been quietly told to be quiet by now.
:

And there-in lies the real story behind the need to neuter McLaren this year.
Next year Prodrive enter the arena, supposedly using McLaren customer cars. So who is that going to affect?
Well there are those teams that will find themselves pushed further down the results.
The Prodrive reps to the FIA will effectively be McLaren reps, raising Mclarens influence on the FIA, obviously not to a level which would threaten the Ferrari strangle hold but considerable none the less.
Dave Richards is the Bernie of WRC, he also heads the consortium which has bought Aston Martin.
The cash injection for McLaren would wident the funding gulf to many poorer teams.

I suspect that the prospect of Dave Richards and Ron Dennis climbing into bed together has got a lot of people around the F1 paddock voiding themselves in their attire.

 

[Moadib]

McLaren, Honda and Super Aguri gained no advantage by using two sets of wet tyres, especially as they had no rain in the race and the tyres were handed back anyway.

I never thought it was optional which rules should be followed and which ones shouldn't. I agree it's a daft rule (or maybe I just don't see the point of it), but it's incredible that in such an important race a team can breach such a simple rule. If I were Hamilton I would be VERY upset at the team.

However using the fuel at cooler temperatures does gain an advantage especially as it was used in the race where as the tyres were only used in free practice

The fuel irregularities were a problem because ;

- It was not that the fuel was cooled to get an illegal advantage. It was that a sudden warm front rolled in (+10 deg) and the fuel was not WARMED up to the newly increased ambient. Ferrari commented they had to suddenly warm their fuel.

- The FIA states the official ambient temperature. The stewards did not know this.

- The FIA official temperature was significantly different than the weather office's reported temp.

- The rules state that "no fuel ON BOARD THE CAR...". The samples taken were not from on board the car, and no precise measurments were available.

Given the above, there was not the grounds to impose a penalty. Not to mention for the good of the sport, it would have made a 100% mockery of the season (as opposed to the 90% mockery).

Why has no more been said about Ferrari's illegal floor at the start of the season?

From the World Council, it transpired the FIA were aware of the floor prior to Australia, did nothing, and it was removed by Ferrari after Australia once the FIA clarified that it was illegal. Same situation as with McLaren's "brake/steer" a few seasons ago.

Ferrari's Constructors Championship trophy may just as well be made out of plastic for all it's worth.

Agreed.

I hope Lewis doesn't win the Championship as a result of the appeal. It would have been great for him to win in his rookie year, but this year has been turned into a farce by Ferrari and the inconsistencies of their FIA puppets.

Totally disagree. With six wins and some incredible drives, Kimi totally deserves the title. And the season has become farcical not through Ferrari, but through Coughlan/Stepney, McLaren/Ferrari, and not to mention Hamilton/Alonso, with a dash of DeLa Rosa and a soupcon of Max Mosely thrown in. There are many, many ingredients to this farce!

I agree with Bernie, that this year is too soon for Lewis, and he would not have been a fully worthy champion in my opinion. Some really, really exceptional drives from him, a breath of fresh air to the sport, and made some supposedly good drivers look ordinary. But too many rookie errors (or more a naive approach), a lack of political ability, a lack of respect for team-mates and opponents (his comment at Monaco about "the monkeys at the back" was really short-sighted), and his lack of long-term thinking - trying to win races when he didn't need to, daft things like messing with Raikonnen's qual lap in Brazil, resulting in Raikonnen paying him back with a brake-test in T2 wish ultimately stuffed Hamilton's race. Just an awful lot of rough corners which, when rubbed off, will leave him potentially a Clark/Senna/Prost/Schumi level talent.

Of course the biggest problem is...the season is over. For all the madness, I did enjoy it! I can't wait till next year with no traction control

 

[kamion]

Roll on 2008.