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Congrats England Women
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Craig1912
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When I was young, Barry Sheen and Ron Haslam were household names, strange that the sport has seemingly dropped off the medias radar.Here is a prime example, never in the running for SPOTY, hardly ever mentioned.
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Jelster
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When Toseland was racing he was getting coverage, but it's because a lot of the races have gone over to BT Sport (Moto GP definitely) which most people won't pay for.
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Me too, but its worse here, the ( local) social media is absolutely full of it, as Leah Cathrine Williamson is a local lass,
and is the first person to be given the freedom of the city, since the queen decreed that we are now indeed a city, during her jubilee celebrations.
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I think I also read that the first womens cricket teams were the ground breakers when they, not the men, stated bowling overarm.......up til then bowling (by both sexes) was underarm!
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Personally I find that a little insulting, implying that being in an age group team is just like going the through motions like passing out of kindergarten.
It can take a huge amount of dedication and effort to be selected for a national age group team and to win international events, that experience can be invaluable at senior level.
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Good for final goal scorer Chloe Kelly for spontaneously following a historic men's tradition by removing a shirt! Discussion here :
Terrywoodenpic
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leoDJypMM0Q
Looks better when the girls do it, but it still draws a yellow card.
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.... IMO I think it's the act of a spoilsport to show any player, men or women or whatever, a yellow card for such enthusiastic and exuberant behaviour. What on earth is the justification for disapproving so strongly about it?
Scoring a goal is emotional, scoring an international match winning goal is emotional. The fans watching the match are emotional. It's all good and healthy.
JohnC6
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FIFA banned it,Robin.
1. Time wasting running to the supporters (they do that anyway) and putting it back on.
2. Sometimes players (I'm thinking the men's game here) have a 'vest' on underneath on which is written something either close to their heart..(literally..lol) maybe a message to their wife or a political slogan in support of a particular person or group or related to a particular religion.The latter can lead, in some instances, to problems between teams.
3. When a player scores the cameras zoom in on them and consequently the sponsor's name gets good exposure.They don't want that to be missed as they pay a lot of money for sponsorship.
4.Cultural differences between teams. To a muslim taking off a shirt is an insult to the one who sees it.. Yes..Go figure
Culture though, rather than religion...I think.I'm not sure.If it's muslims then it must be religion otherwise it would be ok in some Islamic countries. But what about muslim players here. Mo Saleh (Liverpoo)l for instance. Riyad Mahrez..? (Manchester City)
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JohnC6
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It was a great game. No alcohol was allowed to be on sale in local shops nor Wembley Way. That decision was a matter of lessons learnt from the men's Euro final in 2020. With the profile of the spectators I wouldn't have thought there would have been any problems anyway. Local shop-keepers/off-licences, complained to Brent Council who made the decision.
What struck me was that all but one player (she came on in the last minutes of extra time) was white. The full squad was 23 players of which only three were non-white. In the 8-0 win over Norway the whole team was white.That's 11 in the starting line-up and five subs. Compare that to the men's England team and the Premiere league clubs. Having said that there's a real lack of British South Asian players in the men's game.
Re the women's team, Serena Wiegman can only work with what she's offered so the problem,it would seem, is down to the scouts but maybe they're limited in choice because of societal barriers re women,in general. Most non-whites live in city centres and often in deprived areas so if a training ground was out of town they may not be able to afford to get there several times a week. I assume they'd have their kit paid for ? Anyway, I thought it was worth mentioning.
Germany has taken the defeat badly.The headline in Bild ( like our Mirror) was "Another Wembley Fraud" They are comparing the lack of a penalty being awarded to them after Leah Williamson appeared to handle the ball in a goalmouth scrum to one of Geoff Hurst's three goals in the 1966 World Cup win. The Germans claimed it didn't go over the line but today's technology shows it did.
I forget which England player, after the final whistle, went to Oberdorf who was sitting on the ground clearly upset and put a hand on her shoulder but Oberdorf pushed it away.
What struck me was that all but one player (she came on in the last minutes of extra time) was white. The full squad was 23 players of which only three were non-white. In the 8-0 win over Norway the whole team was white.That's 11 in the starting line-up and five subs. Compare that to the men's England team and the Premiere league clubs. Having said that there's a real lack of British South Asian players in the men's game.
Re the women's team, Serena Wiegman can only work with what she's offered so the problem,it would seem, is down to the scouts but maybe they're limited in choice because of societal barriers re women,in general. Most non-whites live in city centres and often in deprived areas so if a training ground was out of town they may not be able to afford to get there several times a week. I assume they'd have their kit paid for ? Anyway, I thought it was worth mentioning.
Germany has taken the defeat badly.The headline in Bild ( like our Mirror) was "Another Wembley Fraud" They are comparing the lack of a penalty being awarded to them after Leah Williamson appeared to handle the ball in a goalmouth scrum to one of Geoff Hurst's three goals in the 1966 World Cup win. The Germans claimed it didn't go over the line but today's technology shows it did.
I forget which England player, after the final whistle, went to Oberdorf who was sitting on the ground clearly upset and put a hand on her shoulder but Oberdorf pushed it away.
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cambsno
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Surely that would be the same with the male players though.
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whiteflyer
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The alcohol issue is a funny one, that has been more of a problem at football than most other sports. I'm a rugby league fan and the local football fans could never understand why we could drink in the stand at Old Trafford and they could not, this may have changed for football now I'm not sure.
Until recently, women have had to pay to play football We've heard the hardship players had to go through in the recent past. This may be a reason why girls or women from more deprived areas have not been playing. Hopefully this will change with the success at the Euros and the more professionalism of women's football.
As for the German player pushing away and England player trying to console her. Maybe she was so upset she just wanted to be left alone 5. 10 minutes later. Probably would not have done the same thing.
Until recently, women have had to pay to play football We've heard the hardship players had to go through in the recent past. This may be a reason why girls or women from more deprived areas have not been playing. Hopefully this will change with the success at the Euros and the more professionalism of women's football.
As for the German player pushing away and England player trying to console her. Maybe she was so upset she just wanted to be left alone 5. 10 minutes later. Probably would not have done the same thing.
cambsno
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I have been to games in Cologne and you can drink while sitting in the stands watching the game, no issues. But when you see the police they have there you see why, only an absolute nutter would try and cause trouble with them on the scene!!!
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Yes., have watched a number of RL games at football stadiums where fans have been allowed to watch with pints in their hands despite signs which say otherwise. The only problem is when a try is scored, said pint is too often shared with everyone else!
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Beer at cricket makes the crowd noisier as the match goes on. If you are in the lower rows of a busy stand you may have to watch out for rivers of spilt beer running down the tiers.
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Yes, you see the drunk bloke carrying four beers up the steps, then hear a commotion as the beer comes back the quick way
There used to be rivers of pee at the old Murrayfield.
There used to be rivers of pee at the old Murrayfield.
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.... Thanks for educating me about that, John - Much appreciated. I only follow the women's football unless it's World Cup and so I'm not familiar with the men's football scene.FIFA banned it,Robin.
1. Time wasting running to the supporters (they do that anyway) and putting it back on.
2. Sometimes players (I'm thinking the men's game here) have a 'vest' on underneath on which is written something either close to their heart..(literally..lol) maybe a message to their wife or a political slogan in support of a particular person or group or related to a particular religion.The latter can lead, in some instances, to problems between teams.
3. When a player scores the cameras zoom in on them and consequently the sponsor's name gets good exposure.They don't want that to be missed as they pay a lot of money for sponsorship.
4.Cultural differences between teams. To a muslim taking off a shirt is an insult to the one who sees it.. Yes..Go figure
What appeals to me most about the women's game is the extremely strong team spirit both on and off the field. Some of the players are very skilled too and make a game great to watch. For me, Mead, Hemp, and Russo stand out but there are others too - It's not a short list!
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.... The Black player who came on late is Nikita Parris who is a very fast winger, a great player. I'm sure that coach Serena had good reasons for who she sent on the field and when and her decisions are never based on colour but only on strategy to win the game and that's how it should be (not that you are suggesting otherwise).
I believe strongly that all players in all team sports should be selected on merit and that their ethnicity/colour is entirely irrelevant. The worst thing that can happen is that some sort of diversity obligations are brought into play, rather like they are in the corporate world. I know of one company which actually has a Diversity Officer to ensure that quotas of LGBTQ employees are met! I believe in meritocracy.
But in fact there are quite a few women of colour who play football at high level and furthermore some are very successful beyond - Alex Scott is the prime example.
.... Yes, Germany were far from being sporting throughout the game and weren't shy about fouling English players < Oberdorf in particular. I don't remember either who made a gracious gesture of consolation towards Oberdorf but her reaction just shows she was acting like a spoilt brat.
Although I much preferred England to win I also wanted the best team to win - Germany played strongly but didn't deserve to win.
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This is good sentiment, but unfortunatley sentiment doesn’t bring equality of opportunity.
Those of us that have had the privilege of growing up in nurturing environments, surrounded by people like us, don’t really know what it is like to have equality of opportunity for all.
We shouldn’t forget that Women were banned from playing football by the FA for 50 years, until 1971. That’s hardly equality.
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.... Sure, but everything evolves and changes over time as it has done throughout human history and continues to do so. There's no point in dwelling on the inequalities of the past IMO.
Equality of opportunity is also a good sentiment and worthy of striving for but skill is fundamental and essential. The fickle Lady Luck also plays a huge part which should never be underestimated.
If someone wants something badly enough they will probably achieve it regardless of their background - The world of success is littered with such examples.
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Someone might, but many more will not.
Looking at the inequalities of the past helps inform changes for the now and the future.
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.... Some will always rise to the top, so what if many more will not - Human beings are competitive by nature. We are all equal but some of us are more equal than others.
A look is all that is necessary. Those who marinate in the past may find their mental health or sense of well being suffers.
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Well, in some circles, many more rise to the top than in others. That is the point of equality of opportunity.
A budding scientist will fare rather better at a school with a set of fully equipped Science labs than one at a run down sink school with very limited resources and which struggles to achieve basic levels of education.
Terrywoodenpic
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We will know when equality is universal.
when discussions like this are no more.
individual managers and the ruling bodies that control the various sports have their own hang ups and prejudices.
Women's football seems to be less prejudiced than most other sports and the English teem seems to be selected from the best available talent.
However the grass roots of all sports are far more uneven in both who comes forward and who is recruited in the early stages of their development.
The difficulties and hardships of the poor and disadvantage continues throughout their early development, Making it economically near impossible for some talented youngster to either develop their skills or continue in the sport.
It is hardly surprising that there is limited choice for selectors at later stages.
These things are certainly far better now than in the past, when no one saw any problem with blatant discrimination. But there is still a long way to go. both in sport and in the society in which it has to operate, and before it can be seen as a meritocracy. Until that time, teams can only be selected from the pool of talent that exists.
At the higher levels at least, teams are already largely chosen on merit, as the greatest driver for selection is results on the field.
Some religious groups discourage women to play sports. As long as that attitude persists those groups will be under represented.
Poverty and deprivation is a problem far harder to fix, so will always be a handicap, but as now, these things are sometimes overcome by outstanding individuals.
Those, of whatever age or background, in the English team were clearly selected for the specific roles they could offer through out the game, and they were brought on at the time their particular gifts could be best used. The result was the best justification for all these choices.
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@Terrywoodenpic 
Terry, I couldn't agree more! Women's football and especially this milestone Euro 2022 win by the Lionesses will do so much to help the whole structure of opportunities and also beyond football.
Alex Scott's dreams are coming true - Also those of Ian Wright < Major Respect and Hat's Off to them!
The positivity is contagious and feels beautiful! Positivity breeds Positivity and we all know what Negativity breeds.
Some of my friends ask me why I love women's football and are surprised that I do - I love it because of the positive energy and team spirit and the games are entertaining. I get emotional when I see Mead's fancy footwork and she scores and when Russo scored from that cheeky back heel kick I cried with joy.
Terry, I couldn't agree more! Women's football and especially this milestone Euro 2022 win by the Lionesses will do so much to help the whole structure of opportunities and also beyond football.Alex Scott's dreams are coming true - Also those of Ian Wright < Major Respect and Hat's Off to them!
The positivity is contagious and feels beautiful! Positivity breeds Positivity and we all know what Negativity breeds.
Some of my friends ask me why I love women's football and are surprised that I do - I love it because of the positive energy and team spirit and the games are entertaining. I get emotional when I see Mead's fancy footwork and she scores and when Russo scored from that cheeky back heel kick I cried with joy.
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Terrywoodenpic
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I find woman's foot ball far more watchable than the men.@Terrywoodenpic
Alex Scott's dreams are coming true - Also those of Ian Wright < Major Respect and Hat's Off to them!
The positivity is contagious and feels beautiful! Positivity breeds Positivity and we all know what Negativity breeds.
Some of my friends ask me why I love women's football and are surprised that I do - I love it because of the positive energy and team spirit and the games are entertaining. I get emotional when I see Mead's fancy footwork and she scores and when Russo scored from that cheeky back heel kick I cried with joy.
The men seem to have all heart and inventiveness trained out of them, for long periods they triangulate the ball to retain it, with out doing anything positive at all. You can only move up the field by passing, and moving into space. This will always involve some risk, but timing and skill moves the balance of risk in the attackers favour. The men's game has become risk averse.
The Ladies seem to have learned this lesson very well. And have proved that they can do it, even against a doubled up rushed defence. As the Germans tried after half time, but gave up that ploy soon after. During the entire competition the English long passing was exceptional.
cambsno
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I think this is because womens football is still a more 'amateur' game and does not come with the coverage and money the mens game does.
If all of a sudden the womens game matched the mens, I think you would see the behaviour change too.
I think the lack of Asian/Black players in the women's team is down to socio/economic reasons. Both Asian and Black girls outperform boys at school, so will be more likely to find employment in better paid work - Accountany, science, law, medicine. Moneywise, women's football is still relatively low paid, unlike the men's game. You only have to look at the number of very highly paid black players in the England men's side. There are also many Black women athletes in the Team GB squad, including the entire relay team.
Look at other sports which are not very diverse - cycling, swimming, even golf despite the success of Tiger Woods.
I also think the women's game could be improved by tweaking the equipment they use. In the following women's sports the main equipment is different for women - lighter, smaller discus, shot, hammer and javelin. Cricket they use smaller diameter, lighter balls, shorter boundaries, lighter bats. Volleyball, the net is lower. Hurdles are lower in hurdles races.
So, how about the women using a size 4 football, llowering the bar and bringing the goalposts in, standardising the pitch dimensions to 95m x 60m.
We then have to think about the stadium size if the women's game is going to take off. At the moment, Arsenal Women play at Borehamwood FC, which has a capacity of 4,500 compared to the 82,000 at Wembley on Sunday. Chelsea Women play at Kingsmeadow which has a capacity of 4,800, can anyone see a pattern emerging here?
Meadow Park (Borehamwood) - Wikipedia
Chelsea F.C. Women - Wikipedia
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whiteflyer
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That is changing
In the upcoming WSL season
Spur v Man United game is at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium
Arsenal v Spurs at the Emirates Stadium
Chelsea v West Ham at Stamford Bridge
and I think the Man City V Man United derby is at Etihad Stadium
That's only a few game I know, but I looked at the next league down and Blackburn's first game is already sold out, the Euro win will drive bigger crowds and that'll force them to use each clubs main stadium.
The adverse effect will be the games will start to cost more than the current tenner ticket.
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JohnC6
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My bold,Robin, so you know what I'm responding to.
I can't quite grasp why you've written what you have which, in one breath (so to speak), you're telling me that the reason Nikita Parris came on very late was a tactical decision by Serena Wiegman and nothing to do with Nikita Parris being black and then tell me that you know I wasn't suggesting it which is correct..I just said ...."she came on in the last minutes of the game" only to remind those reading this when she came on. So I'm left wondering why you said it. No manager would leave bringing on a player in the last minute of a game because of their ethnicity.
Could you please explain to me why you said that ?
To respond to your other points. I almost mentioned Alex Scott but, obviously didn't.
You said..."I believe strongly that all players in all team sports should be selected on merit and that their ethnicity/colour is entirely irrelevant "
You'd have to believe that that was the case. In which case those black, mixed race and British Asian female players you've mentioned who, to quote you, "play at a very high level" ..can't be good enough which begs another question. Why not ?
I just thought I'd mention this aspect of the England team and should really have anticipated there would be an interest but the fact is, when looking at sport overall, it's quite a complex situation involving colour (racism if you like) class and sexism. What this win will hopefully do is to concentrate minds and bring awareness to these shortcomings and move forward and it's what those involved at senior management level..are planning on doing...ie to keep the momentum going. It really has been a game-changer. It's been suggested that the FA hand over the commercial side..ie TV rights, sponsorship etc to a specialist private organisation. I can't see that happening.
Re Oberdorf. Whiteflyer suggests,not unreasonably,that maybe given another 5 minutes to cool down Oberdorff's reaction to whoever it was trying to conole her would have been better. I'm not so sure but who can say ? ..only her.
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You mentioned Nikita Parris without knowing her name but you referred to her colour. So all I was doing was informing you of her name and additionally in the context of you, not me, bringing up the subject of her colour. You were using her as an example to make your point and I was just helping you identify her.
.... Was it a conscious decision on your part not to mention or name Alex Scott? Why not? She deserves so much credit for all her contribution to Women's football. As does Ian Wright, IMO.
.... I never said that anyone of any colour etc including white players weren't "good enough" and neither did I even infer it.
.... I think that some people are overthinking this whole subject of 'diversity' and 'sexism' etc etc etc etc.
The benefits and momentum of this milestone win will drive forward of its own accord and what will be will be.
.... Judging on Oberdorf's unsporting behaviour on the pitch, her reaction to a gracious and caring gesture from a winner speaks volumes and strongly indicates her unsporting character. Compare her behaviour with German Sabine Lisicki when she lost the Wimbledon final.
There's a big difference between being hugely disappointed and being a bad loser. Bad losers are not welcome in any game or sport IMO.
JohnC6
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Come on,Robin. You've totally evaded my question which I highlighted in bold. ..after you'd told me me who NP was. I got photographs up of the three non-white squad members and was unable to identify which one of them came on near the end. The timing of when she came on wasn't the issue. The issue I was highlighting was that in a squad of 23 there was only NP and two other non-white players...who I now know to be, Demi Stokes and Jess Carter. I cannot see what your comments about the manager's decisions re selection and meritocracy had anything to do with the subject in discussion. If,as you say, all you were doing was identifying NP for me that's all you had to say. "That late sub was Nikita Parris" No more,no less.
Re Alex Scott. 140 England appearances and now an excellent football pundit for BBC and Sky. A conscious decision not to name her. ? Yes. I almost did but she wasn't relevant to the point I was making. Ie minimal representation of non-white players in the England squad.
Overthinking ? No..'some' aren't overthinking the issues involved as to why this situation exists and I'll give you an example after addressing your other points.
"The benefits and momentum of this milestone win will drive forward of its own accord and what will be will be"
No, absolutely not. You're advocating 'laissez faire' It will still require a hard drive by those involved to take this forward in a meaningful way. I've listened to one programme after another since Sunday ..even Radio4 Women's Hour..having discussions with those in high places in the Women's game saying how important it is to keep this ball rolling (non pun intended) in terms of training grounds, exposure and sponsorship as I mentioned. They could do with approaching the advisors ..the PR people.. for the Cambridges for advice. Namely, Lee Thompson who is the new Head of the PR team. You can hardly see a newspaper in which William and Kate don't feature and additionally at all major events (by having made them 'patrons' )along with any high profile issue in the country. Ie..keeping them in the public eye and more to the point, the mind.
Agree re your last point re.Oberdorf. It wasn't a good look.
Re your 'overthinking' comment I don't want to make this post any longer so I'll create a new one giving reasons why girls, from inner-city, deprived and ethnic backgrounds arfe disadvantaged as opposed to boys who make it into the Premiere League and the England squad.
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Some extracts from articles on this issue. I noted that he vast majority of the spectators were white.
2021 article:
The London Lions [basketball team] survey reports that 49 per cent of female fans lack an affinity with their sporting icons. The whiteness of the England Women national team has been felt among young black footballers, both former and aspiring."
Debra Nelson (19) Trained with Arsenal and Chelsea.
“I felt a real sense of disappointment,” says Debra Nelson, 19, who trained with Chelsea and Arsenal as a youngster. “It doesn’t shock me just because I have experienced the journey a young black girl will have to go through to get to top-level football. But after all the press releases and all the messaging from England, the FA, Premiere League clubs and the Women’s Super League (WSL), it does surprise me that they haven’t made an effort to include women of colour in a team. Nikita Parris isn’t the only woman of colour that could have made it into the squad.
Nelson recalls how, as a young teenager, she would take a two-hour train to football training with her mother — who had just finished a full day’s work — from one side of London to the other and return home close to midnight, with school the next day. There were times when her mother, a single parent, could not afford her daughter’s playing fees, and Debra “could see that toll on my mum, so I took two years out — I didn’t want to be the one that’s making her lose £300 a year so I can play football" Her father did not approve of Nelson’s hobby — “a cultural barrier”, she says — and in some communities, it is not safe for girls to play football in the dark at night and then walk home alone. Football also carries its own stigma: parents “don’t want to be the family that’s got ‘that child that’s playing football’,” Nelson says. They do not always see a financial return — or a career — in women’s football compared with men’s and demand their daughters focus on education or starting a family.
Nelson’s experiences contrast sharply with what Ceylon Andi Hickman found when undertaking outreach at an all-boys school in Peckham. At the end of each school day, six private cars would wait outside the school gates to take boys aged seven to nine to neighbouring Premier League clubs.
Hickman, (white female) is the head of impact and female participation at the social inclusion charity Football Beyond Borders.
She goes on to say.."“Because of the money in men’s football, clubs will say..‘That’s the best player, so I’m going to go and invest in that boy and put the structure around him to do that’, If all of your best players are white, and they’re representing the national team, you’re not going to tokenistic-ly include a black player. Then you have to look into: ‘Why aren’t black women the best players in this country ? If all of your best players are white, and they’re representing the national team, you’re not going to tokenistic-ly include a black player. Then you have to look into: ‘Why aren’t black women the best players in this country?’. And that’s the systemic stuff that we see every single day.You can have all of the interventions and programmes you want, but if a young girl doesn’t feel like she belongs, has had no relationship to the game previously and doesn’t have the financial means to get there, you’re going to just keep serving the same people in your interventions. You need people within the FA designing for girls in these places and in these communities..
Paradoxically, the professionalisation of the women’s game has added to the problem. The advent of full-time football saw the original 52 centres of excellence cut to 30 to concentrate the talent pool, but in doing so, women’s football inadvertently made itself a middle-class sport. The move to more expensive training grounds often away from inner cities, cut off communities able to walk to training.
If all of your best players are white, and they’re representing the national team, you’re not going to tokenistic-ly include a black player. Then you have to look into: ‘Why aren’t black women the best players in this country?’. And that’s the systemic stuff that we see every single day.”
These extracts show some of the hurdles faced by aspiring young black /mixed race/British Asian females.
2021 article:
The London Lions [basketball team] survey reports that 49 per cent of female fans lack an affinity with their sporting icons. The whiteness of the England Women national team has been felt among young black footballers, both former and aspiring."
Debra Nelson (19) Trained with Arsenal and Chelsea.
“I felt a real sense of disappointment,” says Debra Nelson, 19, who trained with Chelsea and Arsenal as a youngster. “It doesn’t shock me just because I have experienced the journey a young black girl will have to go through to get to top-level football. But after all the press releases and all the messaging from England, the FA, Premiere League clubs and the Women’s Super League (WSL), it does surprise me that they haven’t made an effort to include women of colour in a team. Nikita Parris isn’t the only woman of colour that could have made it into the squad.
Nelson recalls how, as a young teenager, she would take a two-hour train to football training with her mother — who had just finished a full day’s work — from one side of London to the other and return home close to midnight, with school the next day. There were times when her mother, a single parent, could not afford her daughter’s playing fees, and Debra “could see that toll on my mum, so I took two years out — I didn’t want to be the one that’s making her lose £300 a year so I can play football" Her father did not approve of Nelson’s hobby — “a cultural barrier”, she says — and in some communities, it is not safe for girls to play football in the dark at night and then walk home alone. Football also carries its own stigma: parents “don’t want to be the family that’s got ‘that child that’s playing football’,” Nelson says. They do not always see a financial return — or a career — in women’s football compared with men’s and demand their daughters focus on education or starting a family.
Nelson’s experiences contrast sharply with what Ceylon Andi Hickman found when undertaking outreach at an all-boys school in Peckham. At the end of each school day, six private cars would wait outside the school gates to take boys aged seven to nine to neighbouring Premier League clubs.
Hickman, (white female) is the head of impact and female participation at the social inclusion charity Football Beyond Borders.
She goes on to say.."“Because of the money in men’s football, clubs will say..‘That’s the best player, so I’m going to go and invest in that boy and put the structure around him to do that’, If all of your best players are white, and they’re representing the national team, you’re not going to tokenistic-ly include a black player. Then you have to look into: ‘Why aren’t black women the best players in this country ? If all of your best players are white, and they’re representing the national team, you’re not going to tokenistic-ly include a black player. Then you have to look into: ‘Why aren’t black women the best players in this country?’. And that’s the systemic stuff that we see every single day.You can have all of the interventions and programmes you want, but if a young girl doesn’t feel like she belongs, has had no relationship to the game previously and doesn’t have the financial means to get there, you’re going to just keep serving the same people in your interventions. You need people within the FA designing for girls in these places and in these communities..
Paradoxically, the professionalisation of the women’s game has added to the problem. The advent of full-time football saw the original 52 centres of excellence cut to 30 to concentrate the talent pool, but in doing so, women’s football inadvertently made itself a middle-class sport. The move to more expensive training grounds often away from inner cities, cut off communities able to walk to training.
If all of your best players are white, and they’re representing the national team, you’re not going to tokenistic-ly include a black player. Then you have to look into: ‘Why aren’t black women the best players in this country?’. And that’s the systemic stuff that we see every single day.”
These extracts show some of the hurdles faced by aspiring young black /mixed race/British Asian females.
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.... Difficult and challenging hurdles are faced by any aspiring young female player regardless of their colour. Check out the back stories of many of the current Lionesses.
Btw, Nikita Parris has made it into a number of football squads. She is a very talented player and has succeeded on her merit and her determination to overcome all the hurdles, just like any other player (regardless of colour).
You are sounding like Lewis Hamilton. Being coloured doesn't stop someone succeeding - Apartheid doesn't exist in the UK.
I am very happy indeed to hear that the momentum is driving forward as your reply #76 describes. But surely you understand that no-one can predict the future and it will be whatever it evolves to be. There is nothing "laissez faire" about that as you suggest.
The French language expression leads me to point out to you how many black/coloured women played in the French squad - Quite a lot (I haven't bothered to count). I assume they got there on merit rather than token-ism or was it a conscious effort to include coloured players for the sake of it?
After England, France was my favourite team and they played with great fluid style IMO.
FFS, can't we all just enjoy a game of football rather than overthinking all the race stuff? As already said, the challenges and hurdles aren't exclusively down to a player's race anyway.
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What about pink people? Can they succeed?
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Not quite sure why RedRobin has done a ‘HaHa’ on this post.
I sort of hoped he might respond with some text.
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