Confused now about 450D/40D (and a small rant).

JumboBeef

JumboBeef

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Hello all,

I have a 400D and it is a fine camera. It does everything I need except live view. So I decided on the 450D. I have posted here repeatedly how the 450D is going to be just the thing I need, and the 40D is too large and too heavy (because of weight). I also have a number of lenses, including the standard 18-55 one.

So the plan was to buy a body only 450D, my wife would use the 400D we already have and her 300D would be sold.

Went to a camera shop (well known in the NE) and had a look at the 450D, and just to compare it, the 40D.

Shouldn't have done that.

I want a 40D now, and my wife wants one too (particularly when the 40D body only is £50 less than the 450D body only).

So, we thought about doing it like this:

Sell the 300D body (great camera, still going strong)
Sell the 400D body. Very little use.
Sell the 400D grip (+ extra batteries) very little use.
Sell the two 18-55 lenses
Sell the 55-200 lens (very little use)

Buy two 40D's with 17-85mm lenses.

What would you do?

(My rant was the shop wouldn't give us any discount whatsoever if we were to buy two 40Ds with lenses ~ they were just not interested in talking about it).
 
JumboBeef said:
Hello all,

I have a 400D and it is a fine camera. It does everything I need except live view. So I decided on the 450D. I have posted here repeatedly how the 450D is going to be just the thing I need, and the 40D is too large and too heavy (because of weight). I also have a number of lenses, including the standard 18-55 one.

So the plan was to buy a body only 450D, my wife would use the 400D we already have and her 300D would be sold.

Went to a camera shop (well known in the NE) and had a look at the 450D, and just to compare it, the 40D.

Shouldn't have done that.

I want a 40D now, and my wife wants one too (particularly when the 40D body only is £50 less than the 450D body only).

So, we thought about doing it like this:

Sell the 300D body (great camera, still going strong)
Sell the 400D body. Very little use.
Sell the 400D grip (+ extra batteries) very little use.
Sell the two 18-55 lenses
Sell the 55-200 lens (very little use)

Buy two 40D's with 17-85mm lenses.

What would you do?

(My rant was the shop wouldn't give us any discount whatsoever if we were to buy two 40Ds with lenses ~ they were just not interested in talking about it).
Click to expand...


I would go for the 40D if you can afford it. Try Kerso first you might/probably get a better deal.
 
Now that you've had a play at "their expence"
I would hunt around the web for the best deals if they are not prepared to offer a decent discount :thumbs:
The 17-85's are supposed to be pretty good but I have no first hand experiance of them
 
JumboBeef said:
I want a 40D now, and my wife wants one too (particularly when the 40D body only is £50 less than the 450D body only).
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The 40D is cheaper than the 450D? That some odd pricing going on! I thought the 450D should be at least about £80 cheaper.

I tried to decide wether to go for the 17-85mm but in the end went mad an chose a 17-40 and 70-200 F4 IS :| lol - There seems to be a mixed range of reviews around about the 17-85. It seems to be a good lens in all account but can be a bit soft in certain conditions. If you do go for it I would think that it would be wise to spend a while working out its sweet spot for sharpness.

As for the 40D it is a stunning camera, I cant fault it :) Not had a play with a 450D yet, but the little bit extra that the 40D offers does seem worth it to me.
 
The 450D body only was £550 (no cash back) and the 40D body only was £600 (less £100 cash back so £500). They wanted £890 for the 40D with lens (I know you can get it for less, and I certainly would want a discount on two units).
 
I used to have the 17-85 and I was not happy with it. Not sharp especially on the wide, too much CA's, it sucks dust. In the end I bought a 24-105 and 10-20.

But if you are happy with your kit lens, then you will be happy with 17-85 which has more range and IS which works.
 
Thanks.

What about buying the 40D body only and keeping the 18-55 lenses............?
 
I had a 30D and 17-85 for a year before deciding to upgrade. It served me well and I've sold photos taken with that lens. I even managed to shoot a wedding with it. It's not the sharpest lens in the world, but its combination of focal length range, IS and USM focus make (made) a compelling case for the beginner. I would not say it is a lens to upgrade to. It is superior in every way to the old 18-55 kit lens but I understand the new 18-55 IS kit lens is supposed to be a good bit better. You don't get USM but the IS and IQ are a step up from the old lens.

I now have a 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM but I have kept my old 17-85 as a backup. It is still a good lens, in my opinion, but the 17-55 beats it in every way (except reach..... and price :) ). I have an album of test shots comparing IQ back to back between the two lenses at various focal lengths and apertures. Feel free to take a look....

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/EezyTiger/1755And1785SharpnessTest?authkey=Gey3mqzbLyQ
 
I have got the 17-85 and so far its great. I have it on my 400D. I have had a play with a 450D and its nice but the live view has no AF unless I couldn't find the option for it :shrug:

Also you can only use the live view on the 450D only works in the manual half of the mode wheel so you cannot use it on the preset auto modes. Not sure if you knew all this but thought I would mention it :)
 
My mate just paid £700 inc cashback, for 40D plus lens at John Lewis. He had vouchers to use up.
 
I understand why the weight is a problem in the setup you run and I would recommend you not to touch the 17-85 with a borrowed barge pole.

I can confirm all the negative aspects Strobefreak mentioned.

I would rather have the 18-55 as it carries no pretense of grandeur...howabout a nifty or a cheap wide prime??
 
Thanks for all the replies.

So, I thought I'd sleep on it...................

I have decided, at this time, not to go for the 17-85 lens and stick with the 18-55 ones, and look at other lenses at a later date.

Now, as for bodies..............

For landscapes, with the sames lenses, would the 450D or the 40D take the better picture? (Such a simple question to ask, but I fear difficult to answer!). Will the 'extra' 2Mp mean anything in real terms?

The thing I can't get my head around is the pricing: the prices I found yesterday put the 40D (after cashback) £50 cheaper than the 450D, and the grip for the 40D is £25 cheaper than for the 450D.

*confused at Canon's pricing smilie*

So, if the 40D is the 'better' camera, why it is cheaper than the 'lesser' camera.

I'm going out again today to have another look at both the 450D and 40D. My wife has decided she wants a 40D, but which one should I go for (and no, she will not let me use hers :lol: ).

:bang:
 
I would say the 40D gets you far more camera for the money, simply because it's now 10 months(?) old, and has a very generous cashback offer with it: it was over £750 body only when it first came out. I don't think the 450D gives you anything more than the 40D does, and with the latter having features such as the separate LCD for aperture/ISO settings etc, I'd go for the 40D every time. Well, actually, I'd go for a 5D for landscapes, but that just complicates the issue :D
 
Thanks,

marky_h said:
and with the latter having features such as the separate LCD for aperture/ISO settings etc
Click to expand...

The camera will always be used remotely and controlled via a laptop so features like that, important for everyone else, just don't come into for me.

:runaway:
 
I have a 30D and a 40D. I haven't seen or held a 450D and I haven't seen any photos taken with one, but I've skimmed across the preview notices. From the little I do know there is no way I would ever pick a 450D over a 40D, especially with the prices as they are.

If the 450D follows the pattern set by its predecessors the build and handling will be inferior to the 40D - that thumbwheel on the back of the 40D is really nice to use. I suspect some adjustments with the 450D will be more cumbersome than with the 40D.

The 40D viewfinder will be bigger and brighter and far nicer to use.

The 40D will be bigger and you may find you don't need a grip at all (more money (and weight) saved). I had a grip with my 30D and found the 40D didn't need one, as it is a little chunkier to hold than the 30D. In fact I have now removed the grip from my 30D as well - since I use that with my smaller wide angle lenses when the 40D has the big guns mounted.

I think the megapixel race is a dangerous game to be playing. We know that compact cameras have all been ruined by the drive to squeeze ever more pixels into that tiny sensor area. Now the same thing is happening with the DSLR market. I think the high ISO images from my 8.2MP 30D are cleaner than the high ISO images taken with my 10MP 40D. I would not like to think what 12MP images would look like by comparison. It is a marketing gimmick, not an advantage to the serious tog.

Having said that, if you can keep the ISO low then maybe you can squeeze more benefit from 12MP than 10, and if you're shooting landscapes maybe you won't need high ISOs anyway. Also, perhaps speed of handling will be less of an issue for landscapes too. But if you're shooting landscapes, I presume you'll be using a tripod, in which case, why the need for a grip at all? However, if your interests include shooting sports and action the 40D will be the body of choice.

Long story short - the 450D may up the feature count and maybe have (some) better specs on paper, but the 40D is the far better camera for all round photography, where durability, handling, performance and IQ count. With prices as they are it's got to be the 40D.
 
I will probably get shot for suggesting this but I bought a 40D a month ago and wanted a good, constant aperture standard zoom. I got the Sigma 24-60mm f2.8 lens from warehouse express and am very happy with it. It was only 200 pounds.

subseasniper
 
marky_h said:
Well, actually, I'd go for a 5D for landscapes, but that just complicates the issue :D
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Other than sport or wildlife, where the additional reach of the cropped sensor provides additional reach, I'd look at a 2nd hand 5D over the 40D.

I love the 40D, but the 5 is full frame, so wide lenses are actually "wide", much better for landscapes, and the depth of colour in the full frame bodies is quite evident when compared to a cropped sensor.

I know that's probably confused you even more, but a 5D is a professional camera, it's build quality is excellent and there are a few used ones on Ebay worth looking at.

My aim is to end up with both a 40D & a 5D, eventually.... (but if my Mrs asks, you don't know nothin', right.... :lol:)
 
Thanks again,

marky_h said:
Really? You'd never actually handhold it? Ever? ;)
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No, never. I have never taken a photo with my 400D by touching it and only ever hold it to attach it to the rest of the kit. The body could be shaped like a brick with no buttons or LCD windows for all I care :D

Re: the grip. I have the grip for the 400D for two reasons: 1/ I need to be sure I do not run out of volts when the camera is in the air as it a bit of a hoohar to get the thing down and back up again and 2/ I use a remote control to operate the zoom part of the lens and I need the camera to be just that bit higher than it would be without the grip for it the clear this (homemade and unique!) controller.
 
I had a quick look on eBay and it seems a second hand 5D would be £800 - £900 (at least) so plus grip it would be over £1,000 :eek: (don't forget, we are going to buy a 40D for my wife anyway so we would be going from 'just' buying a body only 450D to spend the best part of two grand within 24 hours!)

5D sounds nice, but again it is even heavier than the 40D (810g, 40D is 740g).

I need to stay focused (pardon the pun) and decide between the 450D and 40D :bonk:
 
I would say 40d, as it is cheaper and the build quality is much better
 
Having just moved up from a 400D to a 40D, cannot recommend the 40D enough, the build quality is superb, handling, and feels like an SLR in your hands, the 400D didnt until you add the battery grip, and the dimensions of the 400D are similar to the 450D.

Also the 40D has a much faster frame rate and bigger buffer. Also remember you can change the focus screen, the view finder is brighter. Snap it up, mine for body only worked out at £506 after cash back. Go for it.
 
Getting my hands on the 40D (when I had my 400D) was the turning point for me! I knew I just had to have one (rather than the "small" upgraded to a 450D) :D

It was a great decision to make :D
 
Thanks again, but many of you are talking about 'how it feels' ~ remember, I will not be holding the camera, ever, and as small as possible is better for my use.
 
(SILLY question following) I am confused! Why do you need the camera for? You mount it on an RC plane or something?
And if you say you are happy with your 400D why not stick with it? For the live view? Does it work remotely?
 
some one said about camerapricebuster

very good but i believe that purelygagets is not a UK supplier of Cannon and Nikon, i know a few people and have all got a European or american warranties
 
stylgeo said:
(SILLY question following) I am confused! Why do you need the camera for? You mount it on an RC plane or something?
And if you say you are happy with your 400D why not stick with it? For the live view? Does it work remotely?
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My avatar shows what I do with the camera. It goes 60' up in the air and is controlled from a laptop, so live view is very important. The only reason I am changing from my 400D is the lack of live view (I have to take lots of preview photos to get everything right for the actual photo ~ very time consuming).
 
Yes, they work well (cable is 70' long, and I have seen cables 100'+)
 
Fair enough, but another thought - at the moment you are triggering the camera and maybe making small adjustments over that long connection. In terms of data throughput that is not much of a bandwidth demand. I wonder whether things would work as well with a streaming live video feed. I'm not saying it won't work - I have no idea whether it will or won't - but it's maybe worth checking out for sure before parting with cash.
 
Since You Not Going To Hold It And Use It The Cheaper One Would Be Best, So 40d If The Pole Will Take The Weight.

I Take It Weatherproofing Isnt A Problem?
 
Jelster said:
Other than sport or wildlife, where the additional reach of the cropped sensor provides additional reach, I'd look at a 2nd hand 5D over the 40D.

I love the 40D, but the 5 is full frame, so wide lenses are actually "wide", much better for landscapes, and the depth of colour in the full frame bodies is quite evident when compared to a cropped sensor.

I know that's probably confused you even more, but a 5D is a professional camera, it's build quality is excellent and there are a few used ones on Ebay worth looking at.

My aim is to end up with both a 40D & a 5D, eventually.... (but if my Mrs asks, you don't know nothin', right.... :lol:)
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Steve... Just make sure she only ever sees one camera at any one time. Therefore there is only one camera, right? ;)
 
Well, I still can't decide between the 40D and 450D as the 450D has a number of advantages (for me): smaller, lighter......

However, we have just ordered one for my wife (a 40D) and it should arrive tomorrow!
 
Ordered at about 5:30pm (from Amazon) and delievered by 9:00am the next day! Dead chuffed (and very glad to see the batteries and charger are the same as the ones we have with the 300D).
 
Well, my wife loves her 40D, but I'm still undecided which one to go for.

One last question everyone! Which camera has the best 'insides' if you know what I mean. Forget the body, size, weight etc, which one is better spec-wise.

Thanks.

(PS: I know the 450D has 2 more MP than the 40D, but other than that..........)
 
OK, after lots of weighing, and pondering, it looks like I'll be going for a 40D too.

Anyone want a very little used 400D with grip?

PS: how can I find out how many clicks my 400D has done?
 
JumboBeef said:
PS: how can I find out how many clicks my 400D has done?
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If you've only ever used CF cards that have never been in a different camera, and you have the camera set to sequential file numbering, then the image number will tell you. If you haven't done both those things, then only Canon can tell you.
 
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