Condensation in lenses...

[woof woof]

I have an old manual lens which suffers condensation behind the front element on cold days. I've not seen this with any of my other old lenses and today I took two lenses out with me and treated them both exactly the same and sure enough one suffered condensation and the other didn't so that's pretty conclusive that it's just a problem with that one lens.

I've tried leaving the lens in a warm place for a couple of days but the problem just comes back when out and about and today condensation formed as a nice clearly defined circle and cleared again after a few minutes in the bag.

I do love this lens though as it's lovely and I'd like to be able to take it out on cold days so I just wondered if there's any fix????

If anyone has any experience with condensation forming in lenses and knows of any fix I'll be very interested...

 

[Nod]

I'd try a warm place for a few weeks rather than a couple of days, possibly with some sort of desiccant in a sealed container (ice cream tub with some dry silica gel sachets?) Having said that, warm and damp could be an ideal breeding ground for fungus, so maybe keep the thing in full sunlight. SOME older lenses are relatively easy to partially dismantle (remove front element) so it might be worth doing before the dry out.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

for a few weeks rather than a couple of days

If it is a older lens, chances are that art is not IF, then a couple
of hours in a warm and dry air where the barrel should be ex-
tended and contracted a few times — and repeated to replace
the wet air inside.

To prevent condensation, put the lens in a zip type of plastic
bag while it is cold along with silica gel — before taking it in —
the condensation will form on the plastic bag instead of the lens.

 

[Cagey75]

Silica gel packs/sachets are a Godsend for lenses, I have them scattered about all my bags/cases and have never had condensation or mould issues with any lens, inc old legacy lenses. Nobody can buy a pair of shoes or new handbag without me rooting about for the gel packs

 

[woof woof]

Thanks guys.

I've been taking pictures in all weather for years so I'm pretty familiar with how to (normally) avoid the issue and up until now I've only had condensation on the outside. This is the first lens I've had that's had condensation on the inside and as I mentioned I took two old lenses out today and only the one that's done this before did it so it's definitely a problem with this specific lens rather than me mistreating them.

I'll try keeping the lens in a nice warm place for a couple of weeks in the hope that any moisture inside can come out and thanks for the suggestion to extend and contract the lens.

I do hope that it can stabilise and not suffer condensation when I take it out on cold days as it's a really lovely lens and has fast become a favourite of mine.

 

[OldCarlos]

Nobody can buy a pair of shoes or new handbag without me rooting about for the gel packs

I do exactly the same.

Recently though, fewer products have the little sachet in, they now seem to have a small pale green `sticker` type thing stuck inside shoe boxes etc?

 

[Bollygum]

I live in the sub-tropics and it is very humid for much of the year. I have found that the best solution is a dehumidifier in a (roughly) airtight cupboard or container. The dehumidifier costs about 50 pounds from china and works brilliantly and takes about 30watts of power. I have many lenses and cameras that I use in very wet and hot conditions, sometimes for months continuously (I do fungi timelapse). Moisture is a continuous problem so I store all cameras and lenses in the dehumidifier cupboard. Once you get rid of the moisture, that will ensure that it stays away.

 

[woof woof]

I haven't taken this particular lens into humid conditions so the problems so far are only in cold and within half an hours use in freezing/near freezing conditions there's a neat little circle of condensation behind the front glass which renders it unusable as it shows in the picture.

It's currently on a piece of kitchen paper on the mantle piece with both caps off.

 

[Bollygum]

I haven't taken this particular lens into humid conditions so the problems so far are only in cold and within half an hours use in freezing/near freezing conditions there's a neat little circle of condensation behind the front glass which renders it unusable as it shows in the picture.

It's currently on a piece of kitchen paper on the mantle piece with both caps off.

It all comes down to moist air in the lens. If you cool air to its dew point you will get condensation. The trick is to either dry the air out or warm the lens up. Since warming the lens on a walk around camera is difficult (keep it inside your jacket?), you are left with drying the air inside your lens. Desiccants can work, but they do get saturated quite quickly and need to be refreshed quite frequently, that's why I use a dehumidifier, but you may find that desiccants are effective for you.

 

[woof woof]

I do wonder why this lens suffers when none of my others do...

I'll see how it behaves after a couple of weeks on the mantle piece but after that if it does it again and can't be trusted I'll have to think again.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

The trick is to either dry the air out or warm the lens up

Having work in the Canadian Arctic as scientific photographer,
when I was young, older colleagues taught me this about non-
IF lenses — knowing that cold air contains way less humidity
than warm air (even if both are measured at 100% humidity) :

When your gear is at room temperature, get it out in the cold
and activate the zoom or focus ring (from one end to the other)
to force replace the warm humid air inside with the cold and
dryer air from the outside.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

I do wonder why this lens suffers when none of my others do...

Different lenses have different air volume inside; that is why.
The more = the worse.

 

[droj]

It all comes down to moist air in the lens.

This is the incontrovertible crux. But you have to assume that if it got in, it can get out. You've got to allow that to happen! Never mind that it's that lens in particular. Just get on with the case in question.

Different lenses have different air volume inside; that is why.
The more = the worse.

Well, no - rather that different lenses have different structures, permeability-wise, and have during their lives endured different environmental conditions for various periods. If volume's an issue, it's not the main one (in my book).

 

[woof woof]

Different lenses have different air volume inside; that is why.
The more = the worse.

This is an old Rokkor 35mm f2.8 MC. I have a similarly sized 35mm f1.8 MD which copes fine.

I have everything from primes (maybe 30+) to zooms (only about half a dozen or so) in all different shapes and sizes and it's a mystery to me why this one suffers condensation on the inside when none of the others I've owned in the last 45 years I've had cameras and lenses have but maybe I've just been lucky or maybe I just haven't noticed. Anything is possible. But, this lens suffers to the degree that the fact that there's condensation in the lens is visible through the EVF and is visible when reviewing the pictures.

I'll see what happens after it's had a few weeks to dry out.

 

[woof woof]

This is the incontrovertible crux. But you have to assume that if it got in, it can get out. You've got to allow that to happen! Never mind that it's that lens in particular. Just get on with the case in question.

Yup. I took a spare lens today and switch to that when the 35mm misted up. It'll be a while until I trust this lens but I do hope it recovers.

 

[droj]

I'll see what happens after it's had a few weeks to dry out.

Over a radiator (not in in contact - you don't want to fry/migrate any oil/grease that's in there to do with the focussing helicoid or aperture blades onto the lens elements) - yes, a couple of weeks at least. The moistiure in question might've got in there quickly, but it can only come out slowly. Good luck!

 

[Durbs]

If not silica gel - sticking it in rice can also do the job (works for phones).

As to why it happens, possibly just has more moisture in it than others, and/or it's thinner glass or casing so cools quicker (or it's thicker so warms up slower).

 

[woof woof]

Thanks guys.

As to why this one does it when very similar ones don't I suppose it's a "who knows?"

 

[JohnM100]

Could be any of the many reasons above, or indeed something else.

All else being equal, condensation will first appear on glass with an uneven surface before clean smooth glass. If that element has water marks, lens coating cracks, etc then it will be the one to mist up first.

 

[woof woof]

Under a mag glass it all looks perfect and the fact that the condensation so far at least has appeared and disappeared without leaving any trace is something I'm glad of.

It's on kitchen paper on the radiator at the moment and I'll keep it warm and dry for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. I don't think I'm going to trust this lens until it's proved itself so until then when going into cold or hot or humid conditions I'll take a spare. It's just as well I have a few 35mm lenses laying about.

 

[bass_junkie83]

It could be that any seals are worn and letting air in, or it's just poorly designed in that respect. But as already stated, you need to replace the humid air trapped inside the lens with dry air, simply warming it up without ensuring the air is changed won't help.

 

[woof woof]

Hopefully warming it up and working the focus mechanism will help the dampness dry and or escape.

Most of the advice online is about condensation happening when gear is brought from a cold environment to a warm one, so that's taking the camera from the outside to the inside but my problem is that condensation forms on the inside of the front glass when I'm outside on cold days.

PS.
I'm still baffled as to why this happens with just the one lens. I might give a repair guy a ring and see what he says.

 

[Nod]

At some point in the lens's past, it's got wet and the water has got into the inside where it can't escape easily. Most of the time, the temperature is high enough to keep the water as vapour but when you use it in cold conditions, the vapour condenses on the cold front element. It's probably only a tiny quantity of water that's actually in the air in the lens. If you have a "tame" repair guy, he might take the front element out and replace if for you quite cheaply and that'll help the vapour escape.

 

[woof woof]

Yup. Logic would be that there's moist air inside so if a while on the radiator in the driest room in the house doesn't cure it I think I'll send it away as although it's borderline moneywise as to what's best, give up and buy another or pay to have it looked at, I think I'll persevere with it as it's a lovely lens and in otherwise as new condition

At the moment I'm struggling by with my 35mm f1.8

 

[LBJNBA]

This has recently happened to my canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II

The inside element has it and its potentially forming to fungus so I'm sending mine off to get repaired.

That was taking it out of a cold van outside into the cold air.

 

[woof woof]

Sorry to hear that but maybe it's not all that common a problems, it's the first time I've had it and most of the stuff on the internet seems to be about condensation on the outside when going from a cold outside to a warm inside.

 

[AJQS]

How good are you with dismantling lenses? I'd pull out as much of the elements as I could and leave them out to dry in a disassembled state. It takes very little water to cause condensation, one unlucky raindrop in the right place perhaps.

 

[woof woof]

I can't see how the front comes off but I've disassembled lenses from the back before and taken out the back elements leaving just the front but this one has a little springy aperture release mechanism thingy at the back and if I undo the screws it might just spring across the room or at least be a pain to reassemble so I'll leave it to the professionals if leaving it to dry on the radiator for a couple of weeks doesn't help.

I've definitely decided that I want to keep the lens and if necessary pay for a service rather than just buy another as it's in such good condition.

Hopefully a good drying on the radiator will help.

On the amount of water, I suppose the amount of condensation would only add up to a tiny fraction of a raindrop.