Concerned mum wants law changed

[Ben johns]

But, subject to OS/app/etc, you can’t delete a phone photo in any meaningful way!

Yea lol if your a perve use a phone with those tele lenses attached!

 

[Baloo]

Im sorry but I don’t agree with that. I don’t know the law exactly but let’s assume that the law gives the same right to both parties as you say.
morally the photographer does not have the same right as the person being photographed.

Thank you for deciding what my rights are based on your morals!

 

[Fuji Dave]

Just had a read of this.


https://www.anncrafttrust.org/is-it-illegal-to-take-a-picture-of-a-child-or-young-person-under-18/


But 100% agree with this.



Children should always be consulted about the use of their image and give consent to it being used. They must be aware that a photo or video is being taken and understand what the image is going to be used for. You should ask them how they feel about the image being shared online.

 

[Ben johns]

Correct, because I do not know their intent I make no judgement and do not demand a change in the law to remove others rights!

I accept that asking to change the law is probably over the top but I understand where she’s coming from. Yes she’s shared photos of her children but that’s up to her regardless of the risk, it is different when someone else takes a photo. But as I said I don’t think the law should be changed, perhaps you should be required by law to delete the photo upon request of the person in the photo but no more than that

 

[Ben johns]

Thank you for deciding what my rights are based on your morals!

I think your getting a bit a too cross about it all lol. We have a different opinion, who cares.
I don’t see how morally the person taking a photo of a person who doesn’t know and or wants to have the photo taken can have the right to just keep it if they want it.

 

[sphexx]

Yea lol if your a perve use a phone with those tele lenses attached!

Or just hide the camera/hold it casually and use a remote shutter

 

[sphexx]

I think your getting a bit a too cross about it all lol. We have a different opinion, who cares.
I don’t see how morally the person taking a photo of a person who doesn’t know and or wants to have the photo taken can have the right to just keep it if they want it.

Not aiming this particularly at you, but how do you feel about someone photographing your car or even your cat?

 

[Ben johns]

Not aiming this particularly at you, but how do you feel about someone photographing your car or even your cat?

Don’t care about it. I’m not even that bothered if someone takes photos of me, providing their not mocking me!! Lol if people want to...enjoy photos of me shall we say then their very weird! Lol. But I think it’s different with children

 

[TonyT]

https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/technique/expert_advice/street-photography-and-the-law-96304

 

[Baloo]

I think your getting a bit a too cross about it all lol. We have a different opinion, who cares.
I don’t see how morally the person taking a photo of a person who doesn’t know and or wants to have the photo taken can have the right to just keep it if they want it.

Yes I do get angry about anyone trying to take ANY of my rights away, especially when it is based on nothing but dubious assumptions of intent. Morally I find it repulsive.

 

[Ben johns]

Yes I do get angry about anyone trying to take ANY of my rights away, especially when it is based on nothing but dubious assumptions of intent. Morally I find it repulsive.

It’s not based on assumptions of intent. Even if the intent was to make a piece of art that isn’t mocking or judging the person in question if they don’t want to be part of it I think morally you should respect it

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

morally the photographer does not have the same right as the person being photographed.

Your rights are less important than my rights? Not an argument that I imagine would meet with universal approval and certainly not one supported by the laws of England.

Those laws are quite clear and have been knocked into shape by numerous cases in the past. The general principle can be summed up as: "what is not forbidden is allowed". In the case of taking pictures in the street or other public places the law comes down to: "in public your face is public". So a charming little picture like this is both legally and morally OK...

 

[Ben johns]

Your rights are less important than my rights? Not an argument that I imagine would meet with universal approval and certainly not one supported by the laws of England.

Those laws are quite clear and has been knocked into shape by numerous cases in the past. The general principle can be summed up as: "what is not forbidden is allowed". In the case of taking pictures in the street or other public places the law comes down to: "in public your face is public". So a charming little picture like this is both legally and morally OK...

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Yes it is morally ok. I’m saying if the women in the photo asked to have it deleted I think morally you should. I hope that if someone had taken a photo of me that I didn’t want that they would respect my feelings enough to delete as I would for them

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I hope that if someone had taken a photo of me that I didn’t want that they would respect my feelings enough to delete as I would for them

I most certainly would not. Nor would I ever ask someone to delete a picture of me taken in a public place.

 

[GreenNinja67]

You lot are going to be a bit red faced sticking up for these "photographers" if they ever end up in court on a p*** charge.

I for one find it rather worrying that a man would "always take photos of children" as stated (or words to that effect).

Of course if they are innocent the mother could be sued for libel considering what she wrote in her Facebook post.

 

[Ben johns]

I most certainly would not. Nor would I ever ask someone to delete a picture of me taken in a public place.

Really?! You wouldn’t delete it? I find that bizarre. If you’d taken a photo of my daughter with my permission and I wasn’t happy I’d want you to delete

 

[Deleted member 49428]

Your rights are less important than my rights? Not an argument that I imagine would meet with universal approval and certainly not one supported by the laws of England.

Those laws are quite clear and have been knocked into shape by numerous cases in the past. The general principle can be summed up as: "what is not forbidden is allowed". In the case of taking pictures in the street or other public places the law comes down to: "in public your face is public". So a charming little picture like this is both legally and morally OK...

View attachment 267901

Not here in DK ( if not the whole of EU) if they wants you to delete it. For pictures like This you would need consent

 

[Fuji Dave]

So to everyone here who thinks they have the right to photograph other peoples children, what would you do if a photographer comes up and starts taking photos of your children or baby ?

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I find that bizarre.

That does rather make us equal as I find your arguments rather odd as well.

 

[Ben johns]

Not here in DK ( if not the whole of EU) if they wants you to delete it. For pictures like Theis you would need consent

Which I agree with. I think you should take any legal photo you want. But if the subject wants it deleted I don’t see the problem with it myself, but that’s just me lol. Don’t want it sound like I’m taking the moral high ground, don’t intend it to sound that way but my opinion of this sort of thing has changed a bit since having a daughter

 

[Ben johns]

That does rather make us equal as I find your arguments rather odd as well.

Indeed lol.

 

[Ben johns]

That does rather make us equal as I find your arguments rather odd as well.

I want to reiterate that I don’t think the photo you’ve taken or any you’ve taken is morally wrong, I just think that when people have a problem with you should delete it that’s all

 

[Deleted member 90866]

Well, well. I have just been challenged after taking a photo of two mid-teen rowers on the Cam. By the trainer/teacher cycling alongside. "The school doesn't allow it", she said. Cue a short discussion about public places, which law, etc. Of course, it's been a lovely sunny day and those same kids will be snapped in dozens of smartphone shots by every tourist along the Cam, too. But I was challenged because of it's clearly a camera - an A7 with 35mm (and I've got no interest in photos of rowers, but I've just picked the lens up and have been out shooting all sorts of crap to get used the lens).

The unanswered (perhaps unasked) questions in this:

• what is the supposed ill that is done by taking candid photos of children?
• how is that different to taking candid photos of adults?
• do those who object not understand that the genuine harm being done to children through photos is between themselves (sexting epidemic)?

I didn't delete the photos, but said I would, and I will after pixel-peeping the centre and corners. But that's because I have no interest in a zero-composition snap of something so touristy. But there may be candid shots with kids that I will keep/upload/sell(?) if the image tells a story I like.

 

[GreenNinja67]

I want to reiterate that I don’t think the photo you’ve taken or any you’ve taken is morally wrong, I just think that when people have a problem with you should delete it that’s all

Absolutely, us photographers need to have a good name, especially in the current climate.

Asking permission is a lot better than a slap in the kisser (which is what would happen if I saw anyone take a photo of my grandchildren without consent as their father is fiery little f****r).

 

[Deleted member 90866]

You lot are going to be a bit red faced sticking up for these "photographers" if they ever end up in court on a p*** charge.

I for one find it rather worrying that a man would "always take photos of children" as stated (or words to that effect).

Of course if they are innocent the mother could be sued for libel considering what she wrote in her Facebook post.

Can you point me at where we heard their side of the story?

 

[GreenNinja67]

Can you point me at where we heard their side of the story?

Why are you asking me?

Message the sweaty who posted on her FB.

 

[sphexx]

So to everyone here who thinks they have the right to photograph other peoples children, what would you do if a photographer comes up and starts taking photos of your children or baby ?

I have never had much, if any, interest in photographing children but I guess if I did and someone asked me to delete a photo I’d ask for evidence it was their child.
Alternatively suppose someone asks for a copy of a child‘s photo, do you ask for proof it’s their child?
The whole thing is bloody daft now that photos have become magical objects. — in my youth people used to joke about ignorant/simple people in foreign lands who held that belief .

 

[Gremlin]

Perhaps just best to make sure the child's face is hidden
(and before you ask, I have no idea who she is, but she willingly posed for the picture with a
lion skull, her mum found it highly amusing

 

[sphexx]

Can you point me at where we heard their side of the story?

It‘s in this thread .

 

[Fuji Dave]

I just find it very strange and creepy that some photographers take photos of other peoples children without asking, but that`s just me.

 

[TonyT]

You lot are going to be a bit red faced sticking up for these "photographers" if they ever end up in court on a p*** charge.

I for one find it rather worrying that a man would "always take photos of children" as stated (or words to that effect).

Of course if they are innocent the mother could be sued for libel considering what she wrote in her Facebook post.

I agree what they did is wrong, but what I am trying to get across is not everyone goes about photographing children intentionally or unintentionally for nefarious reasons. I posted my two shot that are online to show how innocent and innoxious they are, and I hope they stand up with some merit as to being half decent photographs.
I am proud of my images and why shouldn't I be, the sad thing is the world is becoming a blame game and no matter what one does there is always someone that will hold their hand up, point a finger and blame one for it..

Look at the all the cr&p that is getting posted about the Oscars etc, lack of diversity in the awards, lack of women in the awards.. Awards should be given for quality films of merit, not to simply fill ones diversity, ethnic background, female participant quotas, What you end up then with is an award system that is not awarding on talent and output, but simply awarding substandard films on the basis the lead actor actress was female, coloured or gay...is that right? All I want it to know a film is good it has merit and is worth watching, I couldn't care whether the actor / actress is black, white, pink or green, gay, straight, waivering or a lesbian.

 

[Fuji Dave]

I have never had much, if any, interest in photographing children but I guess if I did and someone asked me to delete a photo I’d ask for evidence it was their child.
Alternatively suppose someone asks for a copy of a child‘s photo, do you ask for proof it’s their child?
The whole thing is bloody daft now that photos have become magical objects. — in my youth people used to joke about ignorant/simple people in foreign lands who held that belief .

So you always carry proof that you are the owner of the camera then, if you want evidence the child is theirs then where is the evidence it`s your camera.

 

[sphexx]

I just find it very strange and creepy that some photographers take photos of other peoples children without asking, but that`s just me.

Well sometimes it’s because they are not interested in the children as such but as elements in a composition.
All this media hype has persuaded parents that everyone is as interested in their kids as they are . A particular problem for females I guess for biological reasons — “ it’s a wise child that knows it’s own father”, though that has been outdated somewhat by DNA testing .

 

[GreenNinja67]

I just find it very strange and creepy that some photographers take photos of other peoples children without asking, but that`s just me.

No, it's me as well.

It's polite to ask an adult for their photograph.

In my view it's imperative to obtain permission to photograph their child / children.

 

[sphexx]

So you always carry proof that you are the owner of the camera then, if you want evidence the child is theirs then where is the evidence it`s your camera.

Well it’s phones that are the subject here so yes, I could show my details on the phone (with receipts in emails probably) and connect with my photo driving licence etc if asked by police in sensible situation .

 

[Pound Coin]

What you end up then with is an award system that is not awarding on talent and output, but simply awarding substandard films on the basis the lead actor actress was female, coloured or gay...is that right?

All I want it to know a film is good it has merit and is worth watching, I couldn't care whether the actor / actress is black, white, pink or green, gay, straight, waivering or a lesbian.

So, is that you don't care if there are none of those groups, or that you have a blindness towards the ethnicity or sexuality of the actors?

The point, as I understand it, is that the current and past makeup of the movie industry has favoured young, straight white actors. Which is suboptimal if you are not from that ethnic group.

Calling it out to raise the issue is one way, and an obvious one, of getting change.

 

[Deleted member 90866]

I just find it very strange and creepy that some photographers take photos of other peoples children without asking, but that`s just me.

Yes, it is you. It tells us that the motives come from your own mind. You have internalised the paedogeddon thing that Chris Morris satirised so well. The stats are clear: the biggest risk to children (sexual or physical abuse) comes from their parents and close relatives. Not someone taking a photo in a park/street/etc.

We're a mixed bag here - some dedicated to wildlife, some to landscapes with no people at all, some to family/friends, but opinions of those photographers about what urban/street/reportage photographers can and can't shoot is not on. (IMHO.)

There are lots of philosophies about human subjects in street photography, but erasing a significant part of humanity from artwork would be ... well, inhuman.

 

[sphexx]

I agree what they did is wrong.

Except we don’t know what they did. The account is light on details and doesn’t make much sense

 

[Deleted member 90866]

It's polite to ask an adult for their photograph.

Bizarre. City life would come to a complete standstill if everyone asked everyone who was in their camera/smartphone shots "do you mind".

 

[Fuji Dave]

This is one of a few lads in town who ride like this, he saw my camera and shouted out take my pic mate. Not a great shot but he loved it and now has a copy.

Wheelie King by Dave, on Flickr