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Beginner Composition
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Phil V
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There'll be someone to argue with every point here, but I thought this was OK.
Scott Kelby for an hour.
Scott Kelby for an hour.
posiview
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droj
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At root it's not about learning rules, which can as in other areas of photograhy lead to a 'painting by numbers' approach, but about learning to trust your gut. Live dangerously - take risks, and see what happens.
Above all, look at others' work in print & at exhibitions - this can be so nourishing, and will help you to develop your 'eye', so that you can review your own experiments better.
Above all, look at others' work in print & at exhibitions - this can be so nourishing, and will help you to develop your 'eye', so that you can review your own experiments better.
Ed Sutton
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Making pictures that work isn't just the geometry of 'composition' involved in framing a shot, it's colour, light and shade, gesture, expression, balance and tension, harmony and discord, and...
You can have two consecutive frames that are 'composed' identically, but the look on a face in one can 'make' the picture.
Look at a wide range of famous photographs, study them to decipher what is going on in them that makes them memorable.
Or try this - http://compositionstudy.com/
You can have two consecutive frames that are 'composed' identically, but the look on a face in one can 'make' the picture.
Look at a wide range of famous photographs, study them to decipher what is going on in them that makes them memorable.
Or try this - http://compositionstudy.com/
Phil V
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Just to add...
What you need to hold on to about 'the rules' isn't that the rules were written and lots of art followed, it's that some people studied great art and discovered the rules.
But as above, find images by learning to 'see' what's around you, particularly you should learn to 'see' light, it's a tricky one, and often you'll learn to see light by reading lighting books and articles, oddly the most important element gets ignored in a lot of photography training.
What you need to hold on to about 'the rules' isn't that the rules were written and lots of art followed, it's that some people studied great art and discovered the rules.
But as above, find images by learning to 'see' what's around you, particularly you should learn to 'see' light, it's a tricky one, and often you'll learn to see light by reading lighting books and articles, oddly the most important element gets ignored in a lot of photography training.
EdwardL
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This I feel is the best way to learn things like composition partly because in some circumstances you can return to where you took the photo after reading some comments and apply some of what you learned.
Composition-wise, in the second I'd crop most of the black off and leave an inch or so, then one is concentrating on the horizon and tree line. In the first there are perhaps processing issues like it could be sharper and perhaps the blacks and shadows could be lifted. Also there is a little distortion on the left.
To be perfectly honest though, in my opinion the composition is excellent - I like it very much. You have loads of interest and a great lead in line - the edge of the river bank and a very pleasant curve, starting on a third at the bottom. It pulls the eye into the image and the eye then settles around the bridge.
And - again in my opinion - the next best way to learn is to look at other peoples' photographs and comment on them on what you like and why and by studying them you'll learn what sort of composition works and what doesn't.
EdwardL
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This one is okay. Not a fantastic composition if I'm honest but neither is it for the bin. If me I'd have stepped back to show more of the posts and chain, or stood closer to the edge to hide them. The boat part sticking out of the left post is niggling and easily cloned out. The interest is the three boats, the building behind and the rock formation especially the triangle shapes. You don't allow peeps to edit your images* but if you did someone (me probably lol) would like a little tease with some suggestions on a possible edit.
Might I suggest looking up Serge Ramelli in YouTube (based on your original bridge shot and this one)? If you could apply some of his processing methods you'll be surprised at how these shots could be improved.
*The idea of this is not to steal images but to help people by showing how something might be done.
Might I suggest looking up Serge Ramelli in YouTube (based on your original bridge shot and this one)? If you could apply some of his processing methods you'll be surprised at how these shots could be improved.
*The idea of this is not to steal images but to help people by showing how something might be done.
Changed now.
Kodiak Qc
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•
+1 … and about everything else!
If I learnt one thing, it is to educate my eye! … and satisfy all the many
different aspects of visual pleasure.
I was a 19 yo university student when a photographer handed me a box of
27 (8"x10") B&W prints of his and said: "Look at them, take your time, any
time of day —or night, I giveyou two weeks. In two weeks, we get together
and you tell me all about them. Is that ok?"
Two weeks later, we got together. I thought: "He possibly wants to hear me
say how good he is and bla bla bla." What a mistake! He pushed me, almost
forced me, to speak out every single detail or aspect of these second choice
photographs, until I could recognize on my own why they were second choices
(not knowing they were in the first place).
You, Costa, have no answer to give anyone. It is just you, your eyes and your
visual pleasure and nothing else. Just be more aware, more critical…
Look at photographers websites, forums and what not.
Discover what you do and don't like!
kendo1
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EdwardL
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Couldn't agree more
Craig20264
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Started to watch and couldn't leave it. Very engaging speaker and makes a lot of simple sense. Thanks for posting.
droj
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You want crit? Both images are overdone. The tonal range in the first (mono) one is quite aggressive, and doesn't support the composition, which appears fragmented.
The second image as rendered here isn't that interesting - it's kind of over-simplified.
I give you marks for effort - there's nothing vague or limp in either.
About the later (harbour) image - the exposure's solid, but the compostion's a bit vague with peripheral jumble ... so it's unresolved in that way.
Ed Sutton
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A good photo is a good photo regardless of how it's processed, but processing can improve it - or ruin it! If in doubt don't do much.
Some tips I've found useful for evaluating composition:
If a picture works as a thumbnail it will probably work larger.
Squint at a picture so you don't see the details, just the overall composition.
Flipping a picture upside down or left/right makes you 'see' it differently and highlights faults.
Set your own limits on what is acceptable in terms of 'image quality' and don't get sucked into the internet madness of checking everything at 100% for sharpness or worrying about odd bits of blown highlight or blocked shadows. Perfect is boring.
Some tips I've found useful for evaluating composition:
If a picture works as a thumbnail it will probably work larger.
Squint at a picture so you don't see the details, just the overall composition.
Flipping a picture upside down or left/right makes you 'see' it differently and highlights faults.
Set your own limits on what is acceptable in terms of 'image quality' and don't get sucked into the internet madness of checking everything at 100% for sharpness or worrying about odd bits of blown highlight or blocked shadows. Perfect is boring.
Ed Sutton
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My thoughts on he three you've posted so far are:
The first one works as a picture but the processing is maybe a bit too contrasty.
Number two could have been better if you'd maybe altered your viewpoint, and there's too much of the foreground that is neither one thing nor the other - just too much detail to be a silhouette, and doesn't rally add to the balance of the frame.
Number three again could have been improved at the framing stage by either including more of the posts and chains, or framing them out by maybe moving a little closer to alter your angle.
Your viewpoint is an important aspect of framing shots as it's what controls the perspective, the relationship of objects to each other, in a picture. Zoom lenses can make you lazy in this respect. They encourage tighter framing from the same place, while moving closer could also eliminate frame-edge distractions. You might have been able to walk closer to the chain and keep the bits of foreground boat out of the frame, for example, or by stepping back include more of the boats and chain to provide a framing device at the bottom of the picture.
Try different viewpoints and framings all teh time. eventually you'll get to see the right one/s far quicker with practice.
The first one works as a picture but the processing is maybe a bit too contrasty.
Number two could have been better if you'd maybe altered your viewpoint, and there's too much of the foreground that is neither one thing nor the other - just too much detail to be a silhouette, and doesn't rally add to the balance of the frame.
Number three again could have been improved at the framing stage by either including more of the posts and chains, or framing them out by maybe moving a little closer to alter your angle.
Your viewpoint is an important aspect of framing shots as it's what controls the perspective, the relationship of objects to each other, in a picture. Zoom lenses can make you lazy in this respect. They encourage tighter framing from the same place, while moving closer could also eliminate frame-edge distractions. You might have been able to walk closer to the chain and keep the bits of foreground boat out of the frame, for example, or by stepping back include more of the boats and chain to provide a framing device at the bottom of the picture.
Try different viewpoints and framings all teh time. eventually you'll get to see the right one/s far quicker with practice.
droj
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The mono one's quite cool - it has convergence (of the street) that concentrates the eye - that gives coherence, and there's resonance (rhythm) between the figures (all walking away), & between the parallel parked cars ....
The colour one is much less successful. The convergence here is not just overly symmetrical (boring), but also fractured by the cluttering detail (texture) of the foliage (the light is quite harsh). As for any rhythm in the boats, there are just too many of them. The haze in the background isn't very attractive.
The colour one is much less successful. The convergence here is not just overly symmetrical (boring), but also fractured by the cluttering detail (texture) of the foliage (the light is quite harsh). As for any rhythm in the boats, there are just too many of them. The haze in the background isn't very attractive.
Ed Sutton
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I actually like 'boring' symmetry. 
But as Rog says in that colour picture there's too much clutter.
The black and white shot is suffering from something that bugs me whenever I see it in my own pictures. It's to do with how objects visually intersect with each other. Probably just a personal peeve. The foreground figure is cutting off the front of the lighter car. If the figure had been further right or left so the front of the car was visible it might look better. But then there might have been a lamp post growing out of their head...
But as Rog says in that colour picture there's too much clutter.The black and white shot is suffering from something that bugs me whenever I see it in my own pictures. It's to do with how objects visually intersect with each other. Probably just a personal peeve. The foreground figure is cutting off the front of the lighter car. If the figure had been further right or left so the front of the car was visible it might look better. But then there might have been a lamp post growing out of their head...
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Also remember that rules 'are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools' ie some of the arguably best pictures break every rule in the book - however the 'rules' are still worth learning because you can't make a concious decision to break a rule you don't understand
Yep I'm purchasing a book called capturing light by Michael Freeman. I've started reading a book called the art of pphotography in the last couple of days. I guess though the best thing is to pick up the camera and go take some pics.
droj
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droj
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Yes, it's worthy of a read.
Image 1 (new set) - Good - both men are looking at the camera (a triumph over most 'street' photography I see. But funny colour and lack of tonal range.
Image 2 (new set) - Blacks might be a bit too dense, & the guy nearest the camera could do with some more room for his fishing rod and his left foot ...
Image 3 (new set) - More room needed on the left (natural psychology). I like the soft colours.
EdwardL
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Don't stop posting though. Another great way to learn is commenting on other photographs posted on the forum - things like what you like about an image. It makes you look at photographs much more constructively and then you learn how to improve with your own.
(And no matter how good we all are, even the best of us are still learning.)
