Complete and utter beginner - unable to make a decision!

[snerkler]

I can pretty much get this deal here from the photo shop in Geneva due to the good FX rate at the moment @ £750 - will those lenses be ok for a few years and to get me going? Bear in mind I have absolutely NO idea what I'm doing

TBH this will totally depend on the individual and expectations. Those lenses are perfectly fine, especially stopped down as you would tend to have them for landscapes and architecture. The trouble with asking questions like this on forums is that we all tend to be enthusiasts and most have considerable GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and in search of the ultimate images quality and so tend to buy more expensive and/or more specialist lenses and all of a sudden think that so called 'kit lenses' aren't good enough. The truth is most kit lenses will produce great images, and 'could' last people a lifetime. I have the 14-42mm EZ and it's a very good lens. The reason that I use the 12-40mm instead is due to that extra 2mm (4mm eq) at the wide end, the weather sealing, the constant f2.8 aperture and the fact I prefer manual zoom over power zoom. But in terms of sharpness of the lenses for landscapes etc there's not a lot in it.

Talking of focal length at the wide end of the lens, 14mm (which is 28mm eq) isn't 'that' wide for interior architecture and you might want to think of getting an ultra wide angle at some point if this is something you intend to do a lot of.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

my current expectations are photos I take on my iphone so I think this kit would at least take my photography to the next level; and allow me to play a bit to figure out what I need, without investing huge amounts of money. I'm trying to be realistic and get a balance between buying the most basic kit and looking at really expensive pro gear which I have no idea how to use..!

 

[PaulButler]

my current expectations are photos I take on my iphone so I think this kit would at least take my photography to the next level; and allow me to play a bit to figure out what I need, without investing huge amounts of money. I'm trying to be realistic and get a balance between buying the most basic kit and looking at really expensive pro gear which I have no idea how to use..!

Not trying to confuse anyone here (honest!) - we often talk of focal lengths in terms of what we would use on a 35mm film or full frame in digital camera. In those terms an iphone has an equivalent focal length of around 29 to 31mm depending on model. The reason for posting that is the lens Toby (@snerkler ) mentions, the 14-40, will go slightly wider than your iphone - 28mm equivalent.

 

[snerkler]

my current expectations are photos I take on my iphone so I think this kit would at least take my photography to the next level; and allow me to play a bit to figure out what I need, without investing huge amounts of money. I'm trying to be realistic and get a balance between buying the most basic kit and looking at really expensive pro gear which I have no idea how to use..!

iPhone can be great tbh if the light is good and you're viewing on phone screen or small ish laptop screens. Don't be disillusioned if when you first start your photos don't look a great deal better than your phone (in normal viewing sizes), learning photography takes time. I would spend some time learning the basics, such as stuff in these links

https://photographylife.com/iso-shutter-speed-and-aperture-for-beginners
https://photographylife.com/what-is-aperture-in-photography
https://photographylife.com/what-is-shutter-speed-in-photography
https://photographylife.com/what-is-iso-in-photography

and this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Understand...433066&sr=8-2&keywords=understanding+exposure

Also, the keys to photography are light, subject matter, and composition. Photos don't have to be technically perfect to be the best.

 

[Nod]

Thanks again - I definitely need to go and look at these which I will do so today, although with my boyfriend taking me up to 2400m and on 5-8 hour hikes the smallest system is becoming more appealing by the minute.

Obvious solution is to make him carry your camera kit! (After all, you'll want to get it out of a backpack without putting it [the pack] down on the wet, cold ground...)

my current expectations are photos I take on my iphone so I think this kit would at least take my photography to the next level; and allow me to play a bit to figure out what I need, without investing huge amounts of money. I'm trying to be realistic and get a balance between buying the most basic kit and looking at really expensive pro gear which I have no idea how to use..!

A Samsung S6 will do that! (Again, but with an thrown in as well.)

 

[Eloise]

A Samsung S6 will do that! (Again, but with an thrown in as well.)

Going to open a can of worms here but... I think most people take better pictures using a camera than a smart phone... not because the camera is technically better but because of the different processes and thinking involved.

 

[Nod]

Completely agree, Eloise. At pretty much anything over web size, any "proper" camera will beat most phone cams, whichever brand and model phone it might be.

 

[Nostromo]

Completely agree, Eloise. At pretty much anything over web size, any "proper" camera will beat most phone cams, whichever brand and model phone it might be.

I know this is going off topic a bit, but I think it's to do with the dof you get with the tiny sensors in a smartphone. People seem to think everything is in focus (which it does look like), then when they use a dslr, mirrorless or something with a bigger sensor, they start to struggle with focus and think that their smartphone is better.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

iPhone can be great tbh if the light is good and you're viewing on phone screen or small ish laptop screens. Don't be disillusioned if when you first start your photos don't look a great deal better than your phone (in normal viewing sizes), learning photography takes time. I would spend some time learning the basics, such as stuff in these links

https://photographylife.com/iso-shutter-speed-and-aperture-for-beginners
https://photographylife.com/what-is-aperture-in-photography
https://photographylife.com/what-is-shutter-speed-in-photography
https://photographylife.com/what-is-iso-in-photography

and this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Understand...433066&sr=8-2&keywords=understanding+exposure

Also, the keys to photography are light, subject matter, and composition. Photos don't have to be technically perfect to be the best.

This is what i want to do and I was looking for a good starter book so this is great! Many thanks. I think I would be quite good at composition and have no problem learning how to properly use a camera and learn all this stuff but I don't want to be bogged down by a really complicated camera and set-up initially which might put me off altogether where I just sack it off because it's getting too technical I also know it takes a long time to learn about photography so I am under no illusions but just want to add something fun to do on the side whilst I'm on these sweltering hikes and we have missed out on great opportunities of photographing wildlife etc so I need to upgrade to at least a proper camera...

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

Obvious solution is to make him carry your camera kit! (After all, you'll want to get it out of a backpack without putting it [the pack] down on the wet, cold ground...)



A Samsung S6 will do that! (Again, but with an thrown in as well.)

He's ex military so already the hiking plus our hiking kit is an absolute faff and and a military operation - I need to be able to be in control of my own photography kit otherwise there would be tantrums and tears I fear!

 

[snerkler]

This is what i want to do and I was looking for a good starter book so this is great! Many thanks. I think I would be quite good at composition and have no problem learning how to properly use a camera and learn all this stuff but I don't want to be bogged down by a really complicated camera and set-up initially which might put me off altogether where I just sack it off because it's getting too technical

TBH most of the cameras we have discussed have a lot of features and can be quite technical. However, they all also tend to have full auto and semi auto mode so are good for beginners and experts alike.

I also know it takes a long time to learn about photography so I am under no illusions but just want to add something fun to do on the side whilst I'm on these sweltering hikes and we have missed out on great opportunities of photographing wildlife etc so I need to upgrade to at least a proper camera...

Oh oh, this could throw a spanner in the works. Mirrorless are not the best for wildlife due to their relatively poor autofocus tracking compared to DSLR. There are some that are matching DSLR now but are expensive (£1200-£4000). The only ones that have decent AF-C that fit within your budget are the Sony A6xxx series. A couple of the Panasonic are good for this too but I'm not sure on the price of these. That's not to say you can't shoot wildlife with Olympus and the like, many folk do, but it depends on what type of wildlife we're talking about, and your expectations on focus acquisition (time it takes to lock focus) and hit rate (how many of the shots are in focus).

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Yes you're right and they mentioned this in the shop when I spoke to them about all my requirements but they seemed to mentioned fixed and macro lenses at reasonable prices. Thanks for picking up on this!

For 1-1 reproduction macro lenses are the best option. however the difference between the results from them and even a modern standard zooms are hard to see these days. As I said in my first post, Quality to day is universally high. As for distortion to a very large extent residual Chromatic, Pincushion and barrel distortion, are removed in the cameras firmware. these are not things you need to worry about.

As a "beginner" people are expecting you to think about flying before you can even crawl. "Experts" use every one of the cameras and lenses that we have each suggested, with pretty much indistinguishable results. so do not be advised by knockers.

Photography is about far more than the cameras we use, it is mostly about knowing what we are doing well enough not to have to think about it, the real effort is devoted to seeing, lighting and making visual choices.

People tend to form views about cameras based on their own personal difficulties, which can lead to giving bad advice.

I find professional DSLRS tend to be to big, too heavy and unnecessarily complex for me today. But were I a sports Photographer that is exactly what I would be using. Mirrorless have not quite got up to speed in that area yet, but they are not far off ( some specialists swear by them and have made the change)

Interior Photograph is particularly straight forward to a camera and, it kept me and my family fed for a number of years. As someone mentioned, you can always do a pan if you do not have wide enough lens. I posted a thread recently about some examples of how to overcome some common distortion issues with interior stitched pans. ( this also applies to exterior pans) https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/panoramic-projections-and-distortion.671751/

In terms of cameras, we tend to like those that have the right feel, where buttons are well placed for our hands and muscle memory, and that have easy to suss out and remember menu systems." Hands on " experience is probably the best way to choose between two equally technically proficient cameras.

When we complain about image quality it is very rarely the fault of the camera. It can sometime be a software issue that has not been resolved, but almost always soon is, but usually it is because we have been unable to master some aspect of handling or processing. In those circumstances we do not like to blame ourselves, so we hunt online for other examples of similar failings to justify our opinions.
We will always find something or someone to back us up... If we look further... we will also find even more examples of other people who have no such problems, and who produce excellent work on that self same camera or lens. "workmen blaming their tools" comes to mind.

What is certain, is that somewhere down the line we are all going to end up using mirrorless cameras. There is nothing inherently "Better" or more "Professional" in the DSLR design. However it has probably reached a peak in its development, that in most areas, have already been surpassed by some Mirrorless or other.

The best camera for the task is the one you have with you.... in your case size and weight will matter for your work in the hills. For interior and studio work the bigger the better is the rule. Compromise is most certainly the best solution. An APS Mirrorless could be that answer.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

HI Terry - Thank you very much - this is really helpful, I think I am heading towards the Olympus E-M10 Mark III with 14-42 and 40-150 as a starting point without investing a huge amount of money. Until I can grasp this camera and have learnt all that you and Snerkler and others have mentioned, exposure, shutter speed, composition etc etc then I can't see the point in investing more at this stage. If I can master the basics and more, then from what you are all saying I should be able to take decent photos on this camera ?? my techniques are more important than the kit as this stage?
As for wildlife I just mean passing photos of animals but nothing super specific.
To be honest I am such a beginner I think that until I start I don't know what I specifically want to take photos of, but I know mountains figure in my plans heavily.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

HI Terry - Thank you very much - this is really helpful, I think I am heading towards the Olympus E-M10 Mark III with 14-42 and 40-150 as a starting point without investing a huge amount of money. Until I can grasp this camera and have learnt all that you and Snerkler and others have mentioned, exposure, shutter speed, composition etc etc then I can't see the point in investing more at this stage. If I can master the basics and more, then from what you are all saying I should be able to take decent photos on this camera ?? my techniques are more important than the kit as this stage?
As for wildlife I just mean passing photos of animals but nothing super specific.
To be honest I am such a beginner I think that until I start I don't know what I specifically want to take photos of, but I know mountains figure in my plans heavily.

The only area that that camera will fall behind noticeably on is when using High ISO settings in poor light.
Other wise it will serve you well.
Do not invest more heavily in the four thirds system until you are absolutely certain that the sensor is big enough for everything you need to do.
It becomes exponentially expensive to change systems the more you invest. You get locked in.
Many of us have a number of cameras and systems to cover what we need to do. Others become repeated buyers and sellers costing themselves a fortune. It is generally better to only add equipment when you have an actual need. Some Of my Kit, I now rarely use, but I still would not sell it, as it would be too expensive to replace when I did.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

The only area that that camera will fall behind noticeably on is when using High ISO settings in poor light.
Other wise it will serve you well.
Do not invest more heavily in the four thirds system until you are absolutely certain that the sensor is big enough for everything you need to do.
It becomes exponentially expensive to change systems the more you invest. You get locked in.
Many of us have a number of cameras and systems to cover what we need to do. Others become repeated buyers and sellers costing themselves a fortune. It is generally better to only add equipment when you have an actual need. Some Of my Kit, I now rarely use, but I still would not sell it, as it would be too expensive to replace when I did.

HI Terry I was just researching some tests between APS/FF/ four thirds and you're absolutely right - this is where the Olympus lost out slightly but it appears to do everything else very well. I very much take on board your comments about not over-investing at the beginning and this was made apparent by the person I spoke to in the shop today - It becomes very expensive to change systems! Thanks again

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

HI Terry I was just researching some tests between APS/FF/ four thirds and you're absolutely right - this is where the Olympus lost out slightly but it appears to do everything else very well. I very much take on board your comments about not over-investing at the beginning and this was made apparent by the person I spoke to in the shop today - It becomes very expensive to change systems! Thanks again

Have some care with salesmen. they are employed by the shop not you.
In this case I rather agree that the Olympus sounds that it will work well for you... However good and knowledgeable that they may be, there is always a conflict of interest when talking to a salesman. So, to get further advise as you are today, is always good.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

Have some care with salesmen. they are employed by the shop not you.
In this case I rather agree that the Olympus sounds that it will work well for you... However good and knowledgeable that they may be, there is always a conflict of interest when talking to a salesman. So, to get further advise as you are today, is always good.

I am so pleased that I found this forum and so grateful to all of you for your advice and for taking the time to respond, you have all already saved me from making some very bad decisions and expensive mistakes ( for my requirements) and I have already learnt a lot based on feedback and comments.

 

[snerkler]

HI Terry I was just researching some tests between APS/FF/ four thirds and you're absolutely right - this is where the Olympus lost out slightly but it appears to do everything else very well. I very much take on board your comments about not over-investing at the beginning and this was made apparent by the person I spoke to in the shop today - It becomes very expensive to change systems! Thanks again

Unfortunately as you are starting to realise, photography and equipment is all about compromises. Even full frame isn't the ultimate IQ, you have medium format and large format which are better still But for us mere enthusiasts full frame will give you the ultimate IQ but has the draw back of being bigger and heavier (in terms of cameras and lenses) and generally more expensive. APS-C is very slightly worse IQ (to the point at times it becomes insignificant) but cameras and lenses 'tend' to be that bit lighter and smaller, and m4/3 which are that bit smaller again where IQ is very slightly worse (to the point at times it's insignificant). Then there's 1" type, 1/1.7" etc etc which are smaller and smaller still.

Unfortunately no-one's yet made the perfect camera for everyone, and no-one as yet has managed to bend the rules of physics when it comes to size of lenses. Sony brought out the A7 series which are full frame mirrorless cameras to advance technology and also to try and give a smaller FF package. The trouble is that whilst the camera is a bit smaller, the lenses aren't so unless you use small prime lenses the system is still big and bulky.

And this is why you have people like myself and many others on here that are lucky enough to own two systems. FF for when we want to be completely anal about image quality and/or need something for ultimate autofocus tracking, and Fuji, Olympus, Sony A6xxx etc for when we don't want the hassle of big heavy gear.

I'm pretty sure though that 99% of Joe public wouldn't know or be able to tell the difference if you'd shot with FF, APS-C or M4/3

 

[AMcUK]

Thanks again - I have just been to a specialist photography shop and they were very helpful. They confirmed that for me a mirrorless option would be better and they also chose Olympus. They currently have an offer of an Olympus E-M10 Mark III with 14-42 and 40-150 lenses at 998 chf which is £765 and certainly makes me feel happier about this price.

Hi Charlotte - one thing to consider is the E-M10 Mark III few extra features over the Mkii and has actually lost some customisation options.
The big feature over the Mkii is 4K video. If you are happy with Full HD video then the Mkii is still available new in the UK for much less.

I recently upgraded from the Mki to the Mkii bought used from Camera Jungle with a 12m warranty. I've very pleased with it. I was originally intending to go to the Mkiii but couldn't justify the significant increase in price.

 

[Nostromo]

This is all just the beginning of your photography journey.
We haven't even talked about tripods, filters, software, computers, bags, flash, straps, spare batteries, memory cards, the list is long .

For me, photography is a wonderful thing, I love it. My camera is old (I am old), I only have 2 or 3 items that I've bought new the rest is second hand, I added it all up a while ago and think I've spent around £1000, but it still serves me well. There really is no reason to spend a fortune.

So read the advice given by the members here (they're a knowledgeable bunch), buy which ever camera you think suits you best and enjoy yourself.

 

[tijuana taxi]

One extra thing I would definitely buy is a spare battery, best camera in the world is useless without power.

 

[wave01]

some great advice and recommendations here. My advice is simple. If you get a dslr type camera then you are buying into a system. Make sure that system suits you. get a short list and go and try the cameras out. Does feel right are the menu systems right for you. Do not settle for I will get used it. Good luck

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

Thank you everyone - I am going to let all of this great feedback ruminate for a few days so I don't do anything impulsively - analyse all the best deals and then buy something in the next couple of weeks. I know that it will be an Olympus though

I will definitely buy a spare battery - are there any other extras i will almost certainly need straight off?

Thanks all

 

[snerkler]

Thank you everyone - I am going to let all of this great feedback ruminate for a few days so I don't do anything impulsively - analyse all the best deals and then buy something in the next couple of weeks. I know that it will be an Olympus though

I will definitely buy a spare battery - are there any other extras i will almost certainly need straight off?

Thanks all

For spare batteries I would recommend buying Ex-Pro rather than the very expensive official Olympus ones. I've used Ex-Pro with every camera I've had and never had any issue, worked just like the originals. (I feel I should put a disclaimer in about not taking nay responsibility if you get a battery that fails )

There's no other 'extras' that I'd recommend but there's some accessories that I would. A sling strap is a great addition, means the camera is always at hand and it's FAR more comfortable then wearing it around your neck. I've tried just about every sling strap on the market and find the peak design slide the best. Black rapid are also very good but my only bug bear with them is that the camera spins around and moves as you're walking, with the peak design it tends to stay put. Another one worth looking at is the Op-Tech (which I have as well ) but again I don't like it as much as the peak design. YMMV.

I use filters for landscape, but I wouldn't class this as essential, especially considering that you can bracket your shots (take several of the same shot at different exposures) and blend in photoshop/lightroom etc. A tripod is very useful for landscapes, and is almost a must. It's. must if you want to take night shots, or dusk/dawn shots. Tripods range from about £15 to over £1000, and like cameras it's a compromise between weight and stability. I bought my tripod based on the fact that I hike across Derbyshire and didn't want anything too heavy so bought the Velbon Ultra Rexi L and a grottos ball head which weighs 1.8kg in total. This is actually relatively light for a good tripod, but even this can start to feel heavy after a couple of hours walking. If you just want something cheap and cheerful that's versatile then there's the gorilla pod series. Obviously they're tiny so you'd have to find something to rest it on if you didn't want to shoot at ground level, but they can be useful.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

For spare batteries I would recommend buying Ex-Pro rather than the very expensive official Olympus ones. I've used Ex-Pro with every camera I've had and never had any issue, worked just like the originals. (I feel I should put a disclaimer in about not taking nay responsibility if you get a battery that fails )

There's no other 'extras' that I'd recommend but there's some accessories that I would. A sling strap is a great addition, means the camera is always at hand and it's FAR more comfortable then wearing it around your neck. I've tried just about every sling strap on the market and find the peak design slide the best. Black rapid are also very good but my only bug bear with them is that the camera spins around and moves as you're walking, with the peak design it tends to stay put. Another one worth looking at is the Op-Tech (which I have as well ) but again I don't like it as much as the peak design. YMMV.

I use filters for landscape, but I wouldn't class this as essential, especially considering that you can bracket your shots (take several of the same shot at different exposures) and blend in photoshop/lightroom etc. A tripod is very useful for landscapes, and is almost a must. It's. must if you want to take night shots, or dusk/dawn shots. Tripods range from about £15 to over £1000, and like cameras it's a compromise between weight and stability. I bought my tripod based on the fact that I hike across Derbyshire and didn't want anything too heavy so bought the Velbon Ultra Rexi L and a grottos ball head which weighs 1.8kg in total. This is actually relatively light for a good tripod, but even this can start to feel heavy after a couple of hours walking. If you just want something cheap and cheerful that's versatile then there's the gorilla pod series. Obviously they're tiny so you'd have to find something to rest it on if you didn't want to shoot at ground level, but they can be useful.

Hi Toby

Thanks so much for this - I will definitely invest in the Ex pro camera battery.
Tripod - ok perfect, thanks for this.

As for carrying the camera this is something I ve started researching and have come across Black Rapids and peak design - I noticed that there are systems for carrying cameras on rucksack straps such as the Peak Design Capture Clip - what are your thoughts on this? Often I am hiking on quite rugged terrain and it can get quite technical,so ideally I'd like something strapped to my rucksack, so that's its not bashing about my hips, and then where should I keep spare lenses to hand, on the other rucksack strap or in my rucksack?

I have not even started on filters - I have so much to learn (!) but I will bear this in mind for future...

 

[snerkler]

Hi Toby

Thanks so much for this - I will definitely invest in the Ex pro camera battery.
Tripod - ok perfect, thanks for this.

As for carrying the camera this is something I ve started researching and have come across Black Rapids and peak design - I noticed that there are systems for carrying cameras on rucksack straps such as the Peak Design Capture Clip - what are your thoughts on this? Often I am hiking on quite rugged terrain and it can get quite technical,so ideally I'd like something strapped to my rucksack, so that's its not bashing about my hips, and then where should I keep spare lenses to hand, on the other rucksack strap or in my rucksack?

I have not even started on filters - I have so much to learn (!) but I will bear this in mind for future...

I have the capture clip but don't tend to use it, but I think that's because I've tried it with pretty heavy gear on and it makes the rucksack feel off balance. I'd imagine it would be fine with the EM10 and 14-42mm, but this will depend on the individual. In your situation you mind find it OK to wear it around your neck. I might give the Capture clip another go myself at some point with the Olly gear.

I'd personally not worry about filters just yet, so much else to think about

 

[Eloise]

and then where should I keep spare lenses to hand

I usually keep my spare lens in a lens pouch (often lenses come with poaches) and then in a dry bag in the rucksack top pocket. You might want a more padded lens pouch though.

(In my old film days I had lovely CCS lens pouches ... oh how CCS are missed - the modern alternatives just aren't the same IMO though I might just have rose spectacles on again!)

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

I usually keep my spare lens in a lens pouch (often lenses come with poaches) and then in a dry bag in the rucksack top pocket. You might want a more padded lens pouch though.

(In my old film days I had lovely CCS lens pouches ... oh how CCS are missed - the modern alternatives just aren't the same IMO though I might just have rose spectacles on again!)

Thanks Eloise! and great reminder about a dry bag!

 

[sirch]

As for carrying the camera this is something I ve started researching and have come across Black Rapids and peak design - I noticed that there are systems for carrying cameras on rucksack straps such as the Peak Design Capture Clip - what are your thoughts on this?

I bought a much cheaper clip from Amazon and it works fine with my EM5 on my rucksack shoulder strap, just make sure your rucksack can accommodate it, you don’t want it too low because it can be a fiddle to get on and off if you can’t see the clip For me, on rough ground the clip is much better than a strap or sling because the camera cannot swing around. Alternatively look at the the Joby ultrafit sling strap which is easy to shorten and extend so again, when shortened the camera can be fairly tight against you body and not dangling around. However the problem with using a sling with a rucksack is that the wrong strap always seems to be on top, you want to take the rucksack off, the camera is on top. you want to take the camera off, the rucksack is on top

Also look at cheap neoprene lens pouches on Amazon/ebay, you still need a waterproof bag but they are great for lens protection

 

[juggler]

A couple of small things.. second hand EM5 Mk1s are ridiculously cheap on eBay etc and might leave you enough cash for the stellar 12-40 f2.8 lens. Add a small grip - you don't need the full battery grip, just something to balance that lens a bit better - a spare battery and a bag like the LowePro hatchpack and you'll have a system which it'll take you a long time to outgrow. I mainly use a biggish Nikon these days but I still take the EM5 hiking.

You may want a tripod & filters too, but they can wait.

I've got a peak capture clip & find it very useful with the EM5. I wouldn't totally trust it though - keep the neck strap on too.

 

[Eloise]

I've got a peak capture clip & find it very useful with the EM5. I wouldn't totally trust it though - keep the neck strap on too.

Or a length of parachord to the strap mounting perhaps?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

This is what i want to do and I was looking for a good starter book so this is great! Many thanks. I think I would be quite good at composition and have no problem learning how to properly use a camera and learn all this stuff but I don't want to be bogged down by a really complicated camera and set-up initially which might put me off altogether where I just sack it off because it's getting too technical I also know it takes a long time to learn about photography so I am under no illusions but just want to add something fun to do on the side whilst I'm on these sweltering hikes and we have missed out on great opportunities of photographing wildlife etc so I need to upgrade to at least a proper camera...

The camera and lenses that you have proposed can be used in fully automatic mode. just like your phone.
This is the way to start.
Read you book cover to cover with your camera in your lap so that you can refer to it when needed.
Read the book again and some things will start to fall into place.
Take your camera off Auto and try a few things out.
Forget about everything, put it back on auto and go take some pictures.
Check though your shots on the biggest screen you have.
Some you will be happy with some you will not.
Think back to the book... did it cover any of the problems in your pictures.
work out what you could try net time.

Learning Photography tends to be an iteration process. where you try to solve a problem , check the result, make a change and try again.
Technically it becomes as easy a driving a car... but not at first.
Everyone has problems getting their mind round so many interlocking functions at first.
But just as suddenly you fall in and much of it becomes obvious.

When you have a handle on the technical side you can start the real work of image making.
Primarily learning to see again.
Light, composition, and timing.
It can take over your life, as it did me aged ten,
and became what I did for the rest of my life

What I have not mentioned is mentoring. It is very useful to find some one local who is an experienced photographer.
They can help you though the early stages much more quickly... but in other ways they are only giving one point of view,
and their interests might be very different to your own, so not so useful further down the line. where you need to a far broader input.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

A couple of small things.. second hand EM5 Mk1s are ridiculously cheap on eBay etc and might leave you enough cash for the stellar 12-40 f2.8 lens. Add a small grip - you don't need the full battery grip, just something to balance that lens a bit better - a spare battery and a bag like the LowePro hatchpack and you'll have a system which it'll take you a long time to outgrow. I mainly use a biggish Nikon these days but I still take the EM5 hiking.

You may want a tripod & filters too, but they can wait.

I've got a peak capture clip & find it very useful with the EM5. I wouldn't totally trust it though - keep the neck strap on too.

Thanks very much - I have to admit I am still umming and ahhing over the EM10 mk ii, the EM10 mk iii (although only £130 difference in price) and the EM5 mkii and really as I am such a beginner am I paying a premium just for the weatherproofing, will I get anything out of the EM5 at this stage. Alternatively will I outgrow the EM10? ...And then where to buy them from The cheaper EM5 might be an option.
If I were to go EM5 plus the pro 12-40 lens is there a cheaper telephoto zoom lens you could recommend which I almost certain to want? I'm not sure I can justify the pro 40-150mm at the moment?

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

HI Terry - thanks very much for this order of how to get started

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Thanks very much - I have to admit I am still umming and ahhing over the EM10 mk ii, the EM10 mk iii (although only £130 difference in price) and the EM5 mkii and really as I am such a beginner am I paying a premium just for the weatherproofing, will I get anything out of the EM5 at this stage. Alternatively will I outgrow the EM10? ...And then where to buy them from The cheaper EM5 might be an option.
If I were to go EM5 plus the pro 12-40 lens is there a cheaper telephoto zoom lens you could recommend which I almost certain to want? I'm not sure I can justify the pro 40-150mm at the moment?

I am not an Olympus digital man Though I did use their film cameras in film days. so I have just looked up the review of the EM5.
Not long ago the specifications and abilities of that camera would be to die for.
as a beginner it has as much, and more than you need. The pro 12-40 lens is as good as they get, and I am sure someone will suggest a suitable Longer focus Zoom, but you might be just as well served for now with an entry level one as it will be some time before you will benefit fro the Pro version. By that time you might wish for or need something else entirely.

For example Many years ago when it came out, I bought A Canon 40D kit with standard and tele zoom. I absolutely hated the Standard zoom and promptly bought the pro spec 17-55 F2.8 zoom, which was different in every way. I only used the tele zoom on one day out and it worked just fine and quite good enough I still have that original standard and Tele zoom now both unused. I simply do not have need of any tele zoom... so when I bought my recent Fuji I did not bother to get one.
This is a shot I took with it that day in the original size you can see the stitching in the kit
IMG_9665 copy by Terry Andrews, on Flickr

I am sure an entery level zoom will be a good starting point But I await Olympus users to advise which one.

 

[Charlotte Wilson]

Hi Terry - Ok so the pro zoom lens is something I would maybe want quite quickly then, something to bear in mind before I splash out on a kit with cheaper lenses, I might be better going for the EM5 mkii kit and the pro lens and just waiting for the telezoom and only then getting a cheaper one. Thanks again

 

[woof woof]

I am sure an entery level zoom will be a good starting point But I await Olympus users to advise which one.

The only thing I have against entry level zooms is the (usually) f3.5-5.6 aperture range.

I'd agree that for most uses a standard zoom range standard aperture range zoom is perfectly acceptable but things can get difficult in lower light and that's when having a constant f2.8 zooms pays off most, IMO. Also an f2.8 enables me to shoot MFT in the f2.8-f5 sort of range which is where I'd have probably been much of the time with an SLR (at f5.6-f10 or so.) Staying in the f2.8-f5 sort of range with MFT helps to keep the image quality up and also gives the sort of look depth of field wise that I used to get from my SLR.

F2.8 zooms are however usually bigger, heavier and more expensive. One lens that I do like a lot is the Panasonic 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 Mega OIS as it's tiny, just the size of a prime lens really, and useable from wide open.

Good picture, BTW.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

I'm not an Olympus user, but I was lent a camera with the Pro 12-40mm F2.8 for a couple of weeks last year. IMO the Pro lens is stellar, very sharp, focuses close, so can double up for odd bit of macro work, I also found it very flare resistant, which might be a really useful feature when shooting in sunny locations, when you are at altitude.

Given that you favour the Olympus at the moment, personally I'd go for the best body you can afford and the Pro12-40 lens, and thats it. (its 80mm equivalent at the longer end so useful for limiting the field of view). It will also

 

[GreenNinja67]

To add to this I have the 12-40mm f2.8 Pro lens and it really is that good corner to corner.

I have also picked up the 40-150 R cheapy lens secondhand on here for £70.

It too is really good, not as good as the Pro but certainly is fantastic value for money.

 

[GreenNinja67]

With the 12-40 Pro


[url=https://flic.kr/p/21963Am]Rosie on Olympus by Terence Rees, on Flickr[/URL]


[url=https://flic.kr/p/ZP2yJQ]Autumn by Terence Rees, on Flickr[/URL]