Commenting on processing?

Sangoma

Sangoma

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Steve, Coventry, England
Edit My Images
Yes
Quite often photos have white (or black sometimes) lines around edges, and looking closely artefacts round edges as well.
My eye is drawn towards these lines, so I find it hard to believe I am the only one who notices.

To me it looks like excessive sharpening, and would look better without so much.

However, no-one comments on it.

I assume it is not the thing to do to point these things out, but I do wonder does the person actually notice themselves?
Would it help them if it was pointed out?

I notice that people do comment on composition or exposure sometimes.
 
I think it's good to point these things if the images were posted in the critique section of the forum or posted elsewhere alongside a request asking for comments. In general, from what i've seen, everyone is a bit too nice in the critique sections. These sorts of comments would have helped me, especially when I first started out and over edited my images.
 
There is a tendency for some to over-sharpen and I'm not exempt from that.
I think "that's as sharp as a tack" has become synonymous for "that's a really good photo" and it ain't necessarily so.
I think the 'halo' around an over-sharpened image looks awful but critique isn't always well received here anymore so maybe people give it less.
Of course we are now in 'generation Like' so real critique is a rare but valuable thing ... problem is it's also limited by the giver. :)
 
I am guilty of over-sharpening. Its a habit I find hard to stop. I wish more people would point it out.
 
wornish said:
I am guilty of over-sharpening. Its a habit I find hard to stop. I wish more people would point it out.
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Yes, I would like people to point out things that are very obvious too :)
To easy to miss something when concentrating on something else.

Maybe it would be useful to have a "Critique Welcome yes/no" under the "Edit My Images yes/no", but I guess people could just ask if they wanted comments, I will continue to keep quiet :)

I try not to over sharpen, I usually try not to sharpen at all as it increases noise, but there are some images where sharpening really helps the appearance.
 
Considering that photography is a visual art, it is surprising how many people look but don’t see.

As far as comments go, once you place a photograph in the public domain you have to accept whatever comments you get, good, bad, or indifferent.
 
All the "Photos : ..." forums are open for feedback/critique except Photos : For Pleasure.

I think a lot of people don't feel confident to give feedback so that is why there isn't much, I'd like to see more as long as it is done sensitively. Bear in mind the posters level of experience, there is no point in tearing something into tiny pieces, give one or two pointers for things that could be improved and leave the rest for next time.
 
Sometimes it can feel a little lonely, being the only one to point out obvious issues among all the praise.

At the same time, when offering crit, it's always good to recognise the positive qualities of a picture. Just occasionally there will be a picture with no photographic merit other than to the creator, but that's unusual.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Sometimes it can feel a little lonely, being the only one to point out obvious issues among all the praise.

At the same time, when offering crit, it's always good to recognise the positive qualities of a picture. Just occasionally there will be a picture with no photographic merit other than to the creator, but that's unusual.
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Yes, it would feel like that :)

Second point, most of the photos where I have noticed the sharpening issue are very good, sometimes stunniing (which makes things even more noticeable), which I guess does make it feel like nit picking to point something out.
And when some one has posted an very good photo, would they welcome any comment?

I would, I've been learning for about 55 years and still a beginner :)
 
Jpeg images are sharpened in camera, most processing software will sharpen automatically when outputting an image. I would assume that double sharpening is not always good. You would need to look into the software it see if it's possible to stop or reduce it and also to use RAW files for complete control.

I would think that it also depends on how good a screen you view the image on, my laptop is terrible, but I have good screens on my usual processing PC.

Double sharpening can be good if you understand it. I have read about it, but not understood it.
 
seaodyssey said:
Jpeg images are sharpened in camera, most processing software will sharpen automatically when outputting an image. I would assume that double sharpening is not always good. You would need to look into the software it see if it's possible to stop or reduce it and also to use RAW files for complete control.

I would think that it also depends on how good a screen you view the image on, my laptop is terrible, but I have good screens on my usual processing PC.

Double sharpening can be good if you understand it. I have read about it, but not understood it.
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I have sharpening and noise reduction set at the lowest level on the cameras for jpegs, it's surprising how much difference it makes.
 
I find it difficult to offer crit', I've seen a few throw their toys around because someone pointed something out, I joined around a year ago, I've learn't so much from having my images pulled apart :LOL:

I wonder if AI software has an impact on the halos/over sharpening?
 
Sangoma said:
However, no-one comments on it.
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it's for fear of the OP having a hissy fit because "everyone on facebook said that it was brilliant" or that "the client was happy".

but definitely point it out - as Sirch said above, bear in mind the OP's abilities and experience as they've chosen to display on here, and always remember "critique not criticism" - don't jsut rip the s***e out of the picture, tell them in your opinion how they could fix it, or avoid the issue. Help, not Discourage.

ecoleman said:
I think the unspoken rule is that unless an image has been posted in the critique section you keep quiet about it.
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I know again Sirch has said this but it's worth repeating in big letters for the hard of thinking...

All the "Photos : ..." forums are open for feedback/critique except Photos : For Pleasure.

anyone who complains at getting critique, report their complaint and one of the staff will weigh in.

My photography improved immeasurably after joining this forum nearly 14 years ago (and those who know how useless I am now will realise jsut how terrible I was back then!) and it's probably 90% due to the brilliant critique I recieved when I first came here.

There used to be WAY more crit given back then.

Was that because people had more time available to do so - probably not.

Was it because there was less competition for that time from Facebook and other social media, probably a bit yes.

Was it because people had a thicker skin and didn't take every minor critical comment as a personal insult worthy of launching a life-long vendetta against the person providing critique, their family, friends, pets and the entire county they live in - Definitely.

I'll admit I don't spend as much time on giving crit as I used to - it's called returning to a 60 hour a week day-job after being self employed for the first 7 years I was on here. Now, when I log in, half the time I'm fire fighting in the poliitical threads or catching up with state of play in the staff room - leaving a bare 15 minutes or so to interact in the fun stuff - and, honestly, 15 minutes isn't long enough for me to give a proper reasoned critique on a photo. Now I'm not saying everyone is the same, its just that the type of shots that move me to reply, and my own obsessive nature means I personally take ages over critique. which means its annoying at times not to get acknowledged that it'd been read, or dismissed with one of the comments in my first line of this post...

Critique in my experience is fairly stagnant on here sadly, outside the 52's thread and perhaps the "creative" forum - maybe that's a topic for another thread - a "What in your opinion constitutes Good or Bad Critique... maybe get a bit of a discussion around Critique going, and show a few examples from around the forum - make people aware that to be honest, Critique was one of the Cornerstones of this forum from day one - after all it was called Talk Photography, not Talk Camera Kit or Talk Political b*****ks.
 
I'm of the opinion as long as they havent not asked for feedback or constructive criticism then its allowed as I believe we are all here to exhibit our work but also improve and learn constantly. If we wanted our egos stroked we would just show our family who alway say "thats nice", if your are throwing your toys out (as long as someone hasnt been rude) this isnt the hobby for you
 
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Sadly, in the sections I visit most at least, critique is all too often just ignored and not wanted. I’ve spent hours trying to help people with the processing side of images, doing reposts then breaking down what I did, and in several cases not even received an acknowledgment. It’s just put me off doing it much these days.

There are some in my favoured sections who do listen and it’s not the worlds greatest surprise to see those are the people who have made huge leaps forward in their ability.

I honestly don’t get the reasoning behind someone spending thousands on gear, hours driving then hours in the field getting a good shot then being ultra resistant in learning how to present it properly - basic processing really isn’t rocket science.

Critiquing others shots really helps you learn about your own photography as well and makes you think about potential issues before you press your own shutter.

And the other big issue here - that bloody like button - the single biggest block to conversation here on the image boards. It’s been a huge factor in turning this site from a genuine photo discussion board into just another pointless Flickr/Facebook/instagram site.

Mike
 
pooley said:
Sadly, in the sections I visit most at least, critique is all too often just ignored and not wanted. I’ve spent hours trying to help people with the processing side of images, doing reposts then breaking down what I did, and in several cases not even received an acknowledgment. It’s just put me off doing it much these days.

There are some in my favoured sections who do listen and it’s not the worlds greatest surprise to see those are the people who have made huge leaps forward in their ability.

I honestly don’t get the reasoning behind someone spending thousands on gear, hours driving then hours in the field getting a good shot then being ultra resistant in learning how to present it properly - basic processing really isn’t rocket science.

Critiquing others shots really helps you learn about your own photography as well and makes you think about potential issues before you press your own shutter.

And the other big issue here - that bloody like button - the single biggest block to conversation here on the image boards. It’s been a huge factor in turning this site from a genuine photo discussion board into just another pointless Flickr/Facebook/instagram site.

Mike
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I didnt know whether to like this or not althoug I agree! :ROFLMAO:
 
pooley said:
Sadly, in the sections I visit most at least, critique is all too often just ignored and not wanted. I’ve spent hours trying to help people with the processing side of images, doing reposts then breaking down what I did, and in several cases not even received an acknowledgment. It’s just put me off doing it much these days.

There are some in my favoured sections who do listen and it’s not the worlds greatest surprise to see those are the people who have made huge leaps forward in their ability.

I honestly don’t get the reasoning behind someone spending thousands on gear, hours driving then hours in the field getting a good shot then being ultra resistant in learning how to present it properly - basic processing really isn’t rocket science.

Critiquing others shots really helps you learn about your own photography as well and makes you think about potential issues before you press your own shutter.

And the other big issue here - that bloody like button - the single biggest block to conversation here on the image boards. It’s been a huge factor in turning this site from a genuine photo discussion board into just another pointless Flickr/Facebook/instagram site.

Mike
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Amen to that!

I've given up commenting, I can't be ar*ed........and don't get me started on no exif details and the 'you don't/can't learn anything from it' brigade :rolleyes:

I am guilty of using the 'like' button more and more but ya know what they say, when in Rome......:)
 
I tend to be (or like to think I am!) pretty accurate and thorough (fussy? particular?) with regards to my editing :)

But still, it's nice to hear what others see and notice and also good to maybe learn different or easier ways of doing things!

Obviously as anything, needs to be done properly rather than "that edit looks sh!t"
 
Phil-D said:
.....and don't get me started on no exif details and the 'you don't/can't learn anything from it' brigade :rolleyes:
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Is there any simple programme (free) that will superimpose selected EXIF data on an image?
I agree especially with questions about an image it is important, as often everyone is just guessing without it.
When I see images I like, I would also like to see it, there is a lot to be learnt from it for future times.
 
I've noticed that if shots are uploaded to Flickr (or similar) and people allow the host to resize, another round of sharpening is sometimes added which can cause the haloing. If I see what appears to be an oversharpened shot with a Flickr link, I'll usually go to flickr to see the shot at the original size before passing judgement.
 
I only give crit nowadays if it's specifically asked for, or a may drop a subliminal hint. I am always happy to help though.

I post my own images to get opinions, I'm happy to receive constructive crit. I have learned a lot on these boards from the helpful folk we have, both wildife and landscape wise.

Constructive crit is a good thing in my opinion.
 
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Phil-D said:
don't get me started on no exif details and the 'you don't/can't learn anything from it' brigade :rolleyes:
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now, you see, this is where it gets difficult to put a blanket rule in place... you see, for certain genre's of shooting - Sports, Wildlife say i'd think it was pretty important, because the gear is actually a pretty intrinsic part of what you can and can't do - if you don't have the right lens, you're not going to be able to count the feathers on a tiny bird from 100 yards away...

However, consider photo's from film - there's no EXIF of any material import - if there IS it'll be the name of the manufacturer of the Film digitiser used. Really no bloody use whatsoever. Or, take one of my still life shots - what would you learn from an exif that says it was shot at 100iso on a Canon 7D with a 85mm f1.2 at f8.0 at 1/125th of a second. Nothing of any use, because it was shot indoors, at night, using 3 seperate Lencarta Studio Flash heads... I'd wager you'll get the same reaction from the people and portraits shooters.

Maybe it's because i've been shooting since way back in the age of film, but if anyone ever asks me what settings I used for a shot, i have a deep deep temptation to smile and say "the appropriate ones, of course" and walk away.

Then Again, I don't often post for critique of a technical nature - i'm more interested in how my image moves the people viewing it, and their reaction to it - especially if their reaction is something way outside of what I'd actually envisaged for the image...

you see - again - critique can be in many forms - it doesn't need to be about ANYTHING technical whatsoever - feelings and thoughts are often far more helpful to the photographer getting crit. than someone saying "maybe you should have used a stop faster ISO"

giving more critique also gets you to go outside your own little areas on here as well - which, as above, possibly also serves to broaden your outlook on your own shooting...
 
Nod said:
I've noticed that if shots are uploaded to Flickr (or similar) and people allow the host to resize, another round of sharpening is sometimes added which can cause the haloing. If I see what appears to be an oversharpened shot with a Flickr link, I'll usually go to flickr to see the shot at the original size before passing judgement.
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that DEFINITELY happens - especially if the OP has uploaded a full - SOOC sized image, then linked a 1024px version to the forum... Back when I was shooting a lot more, and had a full sub to Flickr (so didn't need to worry about the 1000 image threshold) I used to upload multiple versions of images to ensure I got the correct level of sharpening etc for the image size. Film images, particularly ones that have a degree of grain (intentional or otherwise) can come out looking less like grain and more like hailstones...
 
pooley said:
And the other big issue here - that bloody like button - the single biggest block to conversation here on the image boards. It’s been a huge factor in turning this site from a genuine photo discussion board into just another pointless Flickr/Facebook/instagram site.

Mike
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I used to look at pictures and "like" them but more recently I've started to comment as sometimes a picture will get views and even likes but no comments and I think leaving a comment makes it more real and more personal. If that makes sense. Often though there not really much to say other than "Well spotted and taken" or something like that.

I do think that some pictures I see here are pretty much as good as could be taken but of course some could be taken on a different day with better light.
 
woof woof said:
I used to look at pictures and "like" them but more recently I've started to comment as sometimes a picture will get views and even likes but no comments and I think leaving a comment makes it more real and more personal. If that makes sense. Often though there not really much to say other than "Well spotted and taken" or something like that.

I do think that some pictures I see here are pretty much as good as could be taken but of course some could be taken on a different day with better light.
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Good on you Alan, we need more people adding comments. And although this thread started on a technical level, its important to point out not all critique needs to be technical - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with just being positive if the shot deserves it.

Mike
 
pooley said:
there's absolutely nothing wrong with just being positive if the shot deserves it.
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Which is why the 'like' button IS genuinely useful, for those shots you like but have nothing further of a constructive nature to add.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Which is why the 'like' button IS genuinely useful, or those shots you like but have nothing further of a constructive nature to add.
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I agree, imagine if 20 people who clicked like had to post "I like/agree with this" that would be 20 posts and the original post would be lost down the page.
 
Sangoma said:
Is there any simple programme (free) that will superimpose selected EXIF data on an image?
I agree especially with questions about an image it is important, as often everyone is just guessing without it.
When I see images I like, I would also like to see it, there is a lot to be learnt from it for future times.
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Yes, I believe there is programmes/apps out there to download, I did use to have one on an old laptop but see it more as a requirement of the poster if wanting/offering crit.

TheBigYin said:
now, you see, this is where it gets difficult to put a blanket rule in place... you see, for certain genre's of shooting - Sports, Wildlife say i'd think it was pretty important, because the gear is actually a pretty intrinsic part of what you can and can't do - if you don't have the right lens, you're not going to be able to count the feathers on a tiny bird from 100 yards away...

However, consider photo's from film - there's no EXIF of any material import - if there IS it'll be the name of the manufacturer of the Film digitiser used. Really no bloody use whatsoever. Or, take one of my still life shots - what would you learn from an exif that says it was shot at 100iso on a Canon 7D with a 85mm f1.2 at f8.0 at 1/125th of a second. Nothing of any use, because it was shot indoors, at night, using 3 seperate Lencarta Studio Flash heads... I'd wager you'll get the same reaction from the people and portraits shooters.

Maybe it's because i've been shooting since way back in the age of film, but if anyone ever asks me what settings I used for a shot, i have a deep deep temptation to smile and say "the appropriate ones, of course" and walk away.

Then Again, I don't often post for critique of a technical nature - i'm more interested in how my image moves the people viewing it, and their reaction to it - especially if their reaction is something way outside of what I'd actually envisaged for the image...

you see - again - critique can be in many forms - it doesn't need to be about ANYTHING technical whatsoever - feelings and thoughts are often far more helpful to the photographer getting crit. than someone saying "maybe you should have used a stop faster ISO"

giving more critique also gets you to go outside your own little areas on here as well - which, as above, possibly also serves to broaden your outlook on your own shooting...
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I should've been a little clearer in my post, it was more a direct reply to Mike as we both frequent the same areas of the forum, not something I suppose most would know.

I do agree, exif is more important in certain areas of the forum but why not post it anyway? After all, we are a photography forum and not FB ;)

Just one example that comes to mind, I remember photographing my 1st air show, only around 12 yrs ago, that still makes me a little wet behind the ears now compared to some of you older veterans :angelic:

Getting home and looking back at my photos, then viewing photos posted by others on here, I was really disappointed with my propped planes, why was everyone else getting motion blur in the propellers and I wasn't?

After reading the exif, it was obvious, I was using the same settings for jets, 1/1250th for the propped planes. They were using 1/250th to create motion blur on the props, not only that, they were stopping down the aperture so it didn't blow the image out. It wasn't rocket science but having the exif I learn something new and really useful.

The penny also dropped and I realised similar settings got me motion blur in wheels when panning at a motorcycle race.

These are just a couple of examples from personal experience and one of the reasons I never understand when folks say 'nothing can be learnt from having the exif :)
 
Sangoma said:
I agree, imagine if 20 people who clicked like had to post "I like/agree with this" that would be 20 posts and the original post would be lost down the page.
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I have to 'like' this. ;)
 
Sangoma said:
I agree, imagine if 20 people who clicked like had to post "I like/agree with this" that would be 20 posts and the original post would be lost down the page.
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which is what we had before the like button - an endless stream of "nice shot" comments, mainly by people who were making a "run for the classifieds".

now - as youre all probably aware of - i'm on the staff here - but first and foremost i'm a member just like everyone else - and i can hand on heart swear that I've been against the idea of the "like" button since it was mooted (maybe 2 years before it was implemented!!) - I still am - I think its an awful idea, but like many other bad ideas that this world has had, it's out there now, and removing it would probably end up with a mass exodus of the more recent (and dare I say possibly the younger end of the membership demographic) members...
 
ancient_mariner said:
Which is why the 'like' button IS genuinely useful, for those shots you like but have nothing further of a constructive nature to add.
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Sorry but I couldn’t disagree more.

Tell the poster why you like the shot. Is it light, composition, expression?

The like button has zero use in the critique threads other than to stifle discussion

Mike
 
TheBigYin said:
which is what we had before the like button - an endless stream of "nice shot" comments, mainly by people who were making a "run for the classifieds".

now - as youre all probably aware of - i'm on the staff here - but first and foremost i'm a member just like everyone else - and i can hand on heart swear that I've been against the idea of the "like" button since it was mooted (maybe 2 years before it was implemented!!) - I still am - I think its an awful idea, but like many other bad ideas that this world has had, it's out there now, and removing it would probably end up with a mass exodus of the more recent (and dare I say possibly the younger end of the membership demographic) members...
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(y)
:LOL:
 
pooley said:
Sorry but I couldn’t disagree more.

Tell the poster why you like the shot. Is it light, composition, expression?

The like button has zero use in the critique threads other than to stifle discussion

Mike
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Most people will just think 'nice photo' and leave no trace unless they're in a run for the classifieds as it was described above. IMO of course.

If we ever DID lose the Like button then, rather like a shop selling guitars, you would need an equivalent to the 'smoke on the water' list of fineable offences to include comments such as Stunning Photo, Nice Shot, Lovely Image and other such cliches that are no more meaningful than 'like'.
 
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Phil-D said:
I should've been a little clearer in my post, it was more a direct reply to Mike as we both frequent the same areas of the forum, not something I suppose most would know.
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I was aware - and to be honest, as staff, we probably have a pretty good idea of the regular posters "hangouts"

Phil-D said:
I do agree, exif is more important in certain areas of the forum but why not post it anyway? After all, we are a photography forum and not FB ;)
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normally I'll admit, I don't go out of my way to "strip out" EXIF, and if for some reason I WAS asking for technical crit or assistance, I'd make sure that I'd added as much info as I could - even with film I'd have the lens, film type and ISO, developing media and scanning aparatus/process, plus some idea of the shutter and f/stops as they'd have been set specifically for the "feel" i'd be working for. I do believe that for persons asking for "technical crit" the exif, along with any other info that can be given is ALWAYS a good idea. It's just that at my current stage of my photographic journey, i can generally work out what i've bollixed up for myself on the technical side - it's the feelings/emotions conveyed bit that I don't always see in the same way, and that's more valuable to me.

Horses for courses though - theres lots of different Genres on TP, not all of them interest me to shoot, though i do generally enjoy browsing the images - and often end up commenting from my own emotional level critique on the shots - sadly this sometimes confuses the person who's posted it as they were just expecting what settings to put on the camera, and I start asking "what were you trying to SAY with this shot - are you trying to convey a certain mood by the low light look?" and they reply "no, i just ran out of f/stops". :coat:
 
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