Choice between 3-way Pan & Tilt or a Ball Head for tripod.

Brian G

Brian G

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I have a Manfrotto 055C tripod, currently fitted with a basic (RC141) pan & tilt head.

The tripod is fine, does all I need, but I'm not happy with the head and I'd like to replace it with something better. The camera does not "grip" the cork mounting platform very well, and if I use my camera in portrait orientation with a moderate (70-200mm) telephoto lens, the weight of the lens causes the camera to slip and rotate on the mounting platform.

I'm unsure whether to go with a better 3-way head (Manfrotto 808RC4 or possibly the geared 410 Junior) or to try a ball head.
The Manfrotto ball heads don't seem to be well reviewed, so I've been looking at the Giottos range, possibly something like the MH1300-652, but I'm open to suggestions.

I've only had experience with cheap ball heads which I've found are fiddly to adjust and keep locked, but I'm presuming with the friction adjustments, the more sophisticated ball heads are easier to use.

My main uses are for landscape and architecture shots, so speed of operation is not a prime requirement.
Budget runs to about £120 UK.

Pros & Cons on the choice between 3-way or ball head please?

Cheers,
Brian.
 
Hi. I've never used a ball head so i can't help you with the pros & cons but I have just ordered a 3 legged thing ah1 airhed which is on sale at the moment. Reduced from £129 to £40 plus postage. Seems to get good reviews and has 5 year warranty so i thought it was worth a try.
http://www.3leggedthing.com/kinasale.html
 
Im in the same boat as you Brian so if anyone has any advice I too would be grateful on the 3-way head vs ball head debate!
 
Brian G said:
I have a Manfrotto 055C tripod, currently fitted with a basic (RC141) pan & tilt head.

The tripod is fine, does all I need, but I'm not happy with the head and I'd like to replace it with something better. The camera does not "grip" the cork mounting platform very well, and if I use my camera in portrait orientation with a moderate (70-200mm) telephoto lens, the weight of the lens causes the camera to slip and rotate on the mounting platform.

I'm unsure whether to go with a better 3-way head (Manfrotto 808RC4 or possibly the geared 410 Junior) or to try a ball head.
The Manfrotto ball heads don't seem to be well reviewed, so I've been looking at the Giottos range, possibly something like the MH1300-652, but I'm open to suggestions.

I've only had experience with cheap ball heads which I've found are fiddly to adjust and keep locked, but I'm presuming with the friction adjustments, the more sophisticated ball heads are easier to use.

My main uses are for landscape and architecture shots, so speed of operation is not a prime requirement.
Budget runs to about £120 UK.

Pros & Cons on the choice between 3-way or ball head please?

Cheers,
Brian.
Click to expand...

Manfrotto 410 Geared.

Its bulky, a bit slow but solid and very very accurate.
 
I have an 055 and marry it up to a redsnapper ball head. I am very happy with it.
 
AndyB1976 said:
Manfrotto 410 Geared.

Its bulky, a bit slow but solid and very very accurate.
Click to expand...

Quite agree (I asked the same question a little while ago and now use the 410 exclusively... can't remember the last time I used my ball head in fact.
No creep or sag even with the unbalanced load of D3 + 14-24mm
 
I've used both and like either a ball head or 3 way head. I find the 3 way head is much easier to recompose / move the camera and fine tune it than the ball head, but the ball head is much quicker to get to any angle you wish ...

Not used the 410 geared head, but it does look good - might be worth trying one out in a shop
 
V8burble said:
Quite agree (I asked the same question a little while ago and now use the 410 exclusively... can't remember the last time I used my ball head in fact.
No creep or sag even with the unbalanced load of D3 + 14-24mm
Click to expand...


Yeah the creep/sag of a my cheaper (322) ballhead was eliminated with the 410. Although the geared may seem initially slow to position its there first time and stays. 3-Ways and ballheads may need a little adjustment here, little adjustment there then locked and then might sag again.

Level horizons are simple and it excels with Macro where this sag is very evident.
 
If you do decide on a 410 Junior Geared, somewhat surprisingly Jessops appear to be the cheapest place for them new, currently, at £125.

(Yes, I'm looking to buy one soon!)
 
I have the 410 and I have a love hate relationship with it... It allows me to get the positioning I want but I find it bulky and poorly made with stiff controls that suddenly free causing me to stub my fingers, a right pain especially in cold weather.

I hate my ball head even more. The dreaded ball head drop is even more of a pain.

All in all the best head I ever had, and I've only had three... was a three way pan and tilt.

Generally though I hate using tripods.
 
I went from a Ballhead to a 410 head for landscapes and I love it, makes precise adjustments so much easier. I use mine with a 055 carbon fibre Manfrotto, yes the head is heavy but it's solid and has no play in it at all. I've used it with a 4kg medium format film camera and it doesn't move one bit when my old Ballhead would start to creep. The gearing is nice as it means I can move my camera with 2 fingers and still look through the viewfinder.
 
+1 on a 3 way head for me. Can't beat it for getting level shots or panning. Yeah it can take a bit longer than the pan head but personally I'm terrible at taking level shots so for me is ideal to adjust one axis at a time.

I think have the 804RC2; it looks pretty similar but says it's a two way tilt but appears to tilt 3 ways for me, even have three handles. Have to take the two longer handles off to get it into a bag but works well. It's also half the price of the 808 :)
 
Seriously, if you're doing landscape and architectural shots and speed isn't an issue, go for a 410 geared head. As other's have said, it makes fine adjustments super easy and is rock solid. I went for a 410 for landscapes after having a normal ballhead and have never looked back. In fact three of my photo buddies all bought one after seeing mine they were that impressed!
 
Geared 410 its the only choice really
 
As above! I've always used a ball head (498RC2) which is quick to position but not only does it creep when locked it also doesn't allow for fine tuning a composition because as soon as you unlock the ball you're starting again.

I've recently switched to a 410 junior geared and although it is slower to use it is very precise.
 
Another vote for the 410 Junior Geared head. Maybe not quite as fast to set up as a ball or 3-way but once it is set up, there's no fiddling or creeping so is probably ultimately faster to use. Used to use a 322 Joystick type ball head which is faster than a normal ball in use but that's been relegated to a second tripod. I've got a few other ball heads on other supports, from a very light but firm Giottos on my Vitruvian travel 'pod through a slightly heavier Giottos on a tabletop 'pod to a heavier still Manfrotto ball on a Gorillapod SLR Zoom. I also own a 3 way but I'm not a fan, so it's on loan to a friend who has her spotting scope on it trained on her bird table. I've converted the 410 to the RC2 QR system so it matches all the other Manfrotto heads I have - the Giottos are on travelling supports so needn't comply with the Manfrotto "standard" the main supports use.
 
Nod said:
Another vote for the 410 Junior Geared head. Maybe not quite as fast to set up as a ball or 3-way but once it is set up, there's no fiddling or creeping so is probably ultimately faster to use. Used to use a 322 Joystick type ball head which is faster than a normal ball in use but that's been relegated to a second tripod. I've got a few other ball heads on other supports, from a very light but firm Giottos on my Vitruvian travel 'pod through a slightly heavier Giottos on a tabletop 'pod to a heavier still Manfrotto ball on a Gorillapod SLR Zoom. I also own a 3 way but I'm not a fan, so it's on loan to a friend who has her spotting scope on it trained on her bird table. I've converted the 410 to the RC2 QR system so it matches all the other Manfrotto heads I have - the Giottos are on travelling supports so needn't comply with the Manfrotto "standard" the main supports use.
Click to expand...

Well, overall it looks like the 410 Junior geared head gets the vote.
Not sure about getting it from Jessops, since their website has conflicting information regarding availablity, but a couple of other dealers are also listing it at £125. I did play with one some time ago (before the demise of Jacobs) and I was quite keen on it at that time. As I mentioned, for my requirements speed of operation is not too important, but I like the idea of precision adjustments.

Nod, I'm interested in how you changed the QR plate on the 410 from RC4 to RC2?
Manfrotto do a PL200ARCH plate, with a flange, which prevents accidental rotation in portrait format, like I mentioned in the OP. There appears to be no such version of the RC4 plate.

Cheers,
Brian.
 
I have used a 410 for 12 months and love it. It's not slow but it is very accurate with no sagging at all. For landscape work, at this price, there really isn't any competition. The only downside, and I'm being hyper critical here, is it is heavy and a bit bulky but it really is very well made.

Andy
 
I've been looking at getting a manfrotto pistol grip head but heard they arent all that great and start to creep. Anyone any experience with this
 
Dan, which head are you looking at? IIRC, there's a pistol grip ball head from another manufacturer while the Manfrotto ones seem to be all of a similar type but not actually pistol grips.

I have (and still use as well as the 410) a 322 joystick ball head. Far easier (IMO and I use both types!) than conventional ball heads and in normal use doesn't creep. I've set mine up to use with the left hand while the right deals with camera control - not sure if the latest versions are as customisable - 322s come up from time to time in the classifieds. Creep can be induced should one want a gentle adjustment but there's no sag under camera/lens weight when in landscape, although in portrait, the rig is to one side of the fulcrum so more likely to creep under pressure.
 
DTS said:
I've been looking at getting a manfrotto pistol grip head but heard they arent all that great and start to creep. Anyone any experience with this
Click to expand...

Yes I have one.

Bloody brilliant - wouldn't want anything other than it for photos.

The speed at which you can adjust is great and it's a pleasure to use.

I'm also sure these grips are the best kind to use on a monopod so mine doubles up nicely.

Mine:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-222-Joystick-Head/dp/B0018QOGNW/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_2_1
 
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The 222 is great for a monopod but on a tripod it's best kept in lanscape orientation - in portrait, the weight of the rig is way offset from the fulcrum. The 322 can be set up to behave like the 222 should you want to do so.
 
Nod said:
The 222 is great for a monopod but on a tripod it's best kept in lanscape orientation - in portrait, the weight of the rig is way offset from the fulcrum. The 322 can be set up to behave like the 222 should you want to do so.
Click to expand...

Do you mean when it tilts to the side being portrait? If so that is a bit annoying when a heavy lens is attached yes...I didn't think there was a solution to that. What does the ball head (322) do to counteract the weight?
 
Nod said:
Dan, which head are you looking at? IIRC, there's a pistol grip ball head from another manufacturer while the Manfrotto ones seem to be all of a similar type but not actually pistol grips.

I have (and still use as well as the 410) a 322 joystick ball head. Far easier (IMO and I use both types!) than conventional ball heads and in normal use doesn't creep. I've set mine up to use with the left hand while the right deals with camera control - not sure if the latest versions are as customisable - 322s come up from time to time in the classifieds. Creep can be induced should one want a gentle adjustment but there's no sag under camera/lens weight when in landscape, although in portrait, the rig is to one side of the fulcrum so more likely to creep under pressure.
Click to expand...

Phil Young said:
Yes I have one.

Bloody brilliant - wouldn't want anything other than it for photos.

The speed at which you can adjust is great and it's a pleasure to use.

I'm also sure these grips are the best kind to use on a monopod so mine doubles up nicely.

Mine:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-222-Joystick-Head/dp/B0018QOGNW/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_2_1
Click to expand...

The one i was looking at is the manfrotto 327RC2
 
If you consider the adaptor to be a base and a camera plate, the base fixes to the rc4 plate.

IMG_2207r_zps07289964.jpg
 
Well I hope you are all happy with yourselves that’s £130 I wasn't expecting to spend when I logged on. :nono:
I've been pondering over getting a Manfrotto 410 for about 6 months and this thread has succeeded in tipping me over the edge :)
Ordered from Wex a few mins ago and delivery is tomorrow :)
 
Phil Young said:
Do you mean when it tilts to the side being portrait? If so that is a bit annoying when a heavy lens is attached yes...I didn't think there was a solution to that. What does the ball head (322) do to counteract the weight?
Click to expand...

The 322 has the QR plate mounted at the ball end of the handle (when the plate's mounted that way - it's moveable) while the 222 has it fixed at the top. The only lenses I've had where the 322 had a problem were a 150-500 and a 70-200 f/2.8, both of which have tripod collars obviating the need to turn the head like that (same thing with the 222 but even shorter lenses stuck out on the end cause droop).

Brian G said:
OK on that.
Do you put the adapter on top of the RC4 plate, or does it fit onto the platform after you've taken the adapter plate off?
Click to expand...

AndyB1976 said:
If you consider the adaptor to be a base and a camera plate, the base fixes to the rc4 plate.

IMG_2207r_zps07289964.jpg
Click to expand...

Yup, [tommycooper]just like that![/tommycooper] (Thinking of TC, he was an Exonian too!)
 
DTS said:
I've been looking at getting a manfrotto pistol grip head but heard they arent all that great and start to creep. Anyone any experience with this
Click to expand...

I've got the 322. Its not necessarily creep thats the problem, it is the method of positioning it. You need to squeeze the trigger and twist the grip. The problems are the forces you apply here slightly move the tripod (talking fractions here) and where accuracy is required this does become a problem. Its great however for speed when accuracy isn't a problem and you can sort of use it as a 'poor-mans' gimbal by reversing the plate so that the trigger is on your left and can control the friction and positioning whilst operating the shutter with your right hand.


Phil Young said:
Do you mean when it tilts to the side being portrait? If so that is a bit annoying when a heavy lens is attached yes...I didn't think there was a solution to that. What does the ball head (322) do to counteract the weight?
Click to expand...

As Nod says the weight is closer to the pivot so effectively has less leverage on the locking mechanism and the weight goes down through the center of the tripod rather than pulling off to the side. If you check the Amazon link below you'll see it in the pics.

DTS said:
The one i was looking at is the manfrotto 327RC2
Click to expand...

The 322 I have also works as a joystick as Nod says. The base can fix to the end of the handle, you can see two little rubber bungs in postion which you pullout and screw the base into. Again the photos on Amazon show it in all configurations.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-3...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357660528&sr=1-1
 
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Looks great - may have swayed towards that head now lol
 
I was just about to place an order for the 410 with Jessops when I saw the message about them going into administration.

Phew!
 
Go instore and see if they have one in stock. Might be even cheaper!
 
AndyB1976 said:
If you consider the adaptor to be a base and a camera plate, the base fixes to the rc4 plate.

IMG_2207r_zps07289964.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you'd want to do that? I've found the RC2 plates tend to have a bit of movement whereas the RC4 are rock solid.
 
I can't say I have particularly noticed any troublesome play in my RC2. My 322 is also the RC2 variant. I do prefer the smaller footprint of that RC2 plate on the camera (looks about half the size of the rc4 in the pics) so I decided just to buy the adaptor.

I will check out what you say however :thumbs:
 
Nod said:
Go instore and see if they have one in stock. Might be even cheaper!
Click to expand...

Despite their website saying "available for in store collection" Jessops show no stock of the 410 at any of their shops.
With their position the way it is right now, I'd be reluctant to order anything from them.
Looks like WEX is the next best choice.
 
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