Children's photographers - very shallow depth of field and keeping them in focus

dubcat

dubcat

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Amir
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Hi - I have noticed that a lot of children's photography involves having a really shallow depth of field with the eyes in sharp focus. I have tried this with my children but have found it impossible to keep both eyes in sharp focus because at very large apertures even a small movement on their or my part means they are at a different focal plane to when i focussed and therefore go out of focus when i take the shot!

I am wondering if these children's photographers are in fact achieving this effect by shooting at a smaller aperture to ensure both eyes are in focus and are then applying some kind of blur effect in photoshop to simulate and/or augment any depth of field blur?

Any insight would be appreciated.
Dub
 
A faster shutter speed helps reduce movement from the focal plane, either by you or the model, but it is possible, just practice and patience really. I don't do too many kids, but managed exactly what you are referring to with my dog, and believe me, she doesn't do 'staying still' for more than a moment.

5484057518_0ef229ef6e_o.jpg
 
I'll admit I have real difficulty with this, though I think its partly lack of practice and partly a subject who doesn't stop moving... ever.

Oh, and awwwww
 
Hi
You can still get a shallow depth of field if you move them further away from your background. Also you need good light so you have a faster shutter speed any movement will cause motion blur. I tend to go by the age of child if they are older enough to keep still I will use a small aperture.
J
 
abdabs said:
Hi
You can still get a shallow depth of field if you move them further away from your background. Also you need good light so you have a faster shutter speed any movement will cause motion blur. I tend to go by the age of child if they are older enough to keep still I will use a wide aperture
J
J
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abdabs said:
Hi
You can still get a shallow depth of field if you move them further away from your background. Also you need good light so you have a faster shutter speed any movement will cause motion blur. I tend to go by the age of child if they are older enough to keep still I will use a wider aperture.
J
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Practice practice practice :) a few tips though...

1. Select the correct focus point, focus and recompose is to inconsistent and leaves to much room for error at apertures such as f1.4-f2 . Instead compose the image and select the focus point that falls on the eyes.

2. Use single shot focus.

3. Be realistic, if they are running around, the chances of you getting a good in focus at f1.4 or so are slim! Try f2.8.

4. Keep shutter over 1/125, tbh though, with reference to shutterspeed, it's mainly reducing motion blur here, not so much helping you nail the focus at f1.4 or similar. Focus skills are more the key in my experience. But 1/125 is generally my minimum.

5. Good light! Light those eyes up, makes a huge difference.

Lots of other things which are at play here too, focal length, distance to subject ratio etc..... But the above points should help!
 
Yv awwwwww! Yup that is the kind of shot I meant :)

Mh that's some great advice. I can see already that I have been using way too low a shutter speed (have suspected for a while that 1/focal length is not enough but had no clue how fast I needed to go till now) and not really making any effort to light up the eyes. Is lighting up the eyes done in order to show the detail of the iris? In natural light photography is this done by simply facing them towards the sun? Doesn't that make them squint?
 
dubcat said:
Yv awwwwww! Yup that is the kind of shot I meant :)

Mh that's some great advice. I can see already that I have been using way too low a shutter speed (have suspected for a while that 1/focal length is not enough but had no clue how fast I needed to go till now) and not really making any effort to light up the eyes. Is lighting up the eyes done in order to show the detail of the iris? In natural light photography is this done by simply facing them towards the sun? Doesn't that make them squint?
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By having good light across the face makes it easier to bring attention to the eyes, a reflector helps here, a lot! Personally I prefer the sun behind my subjects, I then bounce light back in to light the face, or I expose for the face and blow the background a bit, personal taste. But I hardly if ever have someone facing the sun, yes it makes them squint, but it's just not my kinda light, to many shadows etc.
 
MH thanks. As a side question - how do you manage a reflector while shooting at the same time? Do you have an assistant?
 
An old light stand or a cheap tripod & clamp on a reflector.:):thumbs:
 
dubcat said:
MH thanks. As a side question - how do you manage a reflector while shooting at the same time? Do you have an assistant?
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I shoot fast and have no time for light stands etc, I prop reflectors up with one foot or a knee! Sometimes will use a parent to hold one!
 
I use a flash on camera. The focus assist beam helps to nail the focus but be prepared for lots of shots not quite there! Wait until they are looking straight at you or draw their attention if you absolutely need both eyes in focus, sometimes if the shot is nice enough no one will even notice one eye slightly out!
 
So since they have a tendency to move about, and given that I use back button focus, do i need to try to jab the focus button and then as soon as i get a lock-on hit the shutter release?
 
dubcat said:
So since they have a tendency to move about, and given that I use back button focus, do i need to try to jab the focus button and then as soon as i get a lock-on hit the shutter release?
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Use continuous focus and shoot heavy, expect fewer keepers.
 
ok - i will try it. I did used to try and use that but people said not to as AI SERVO mode is designed for smooth motion like a car or something. Obviously children don't move like that - it's far more random.
 
Amir, just a quick point, for crop sensors like the 50D, you need 1/focal length*1.6 as a rule of thumb. I've just bought a 40D and realised very quickly how much more light I need for an equally sharp shot on my 5DMKII.

I've got lots of shots of my son with some fairly decent results. I always try and get the light over my shoulder facing my son and I stay very still and let him do the running around, otherwise there are two lots of moving objects to control. I've never used AI Servo as I end up missing the moment whilst it adjusts the focus back and forth (I never quite know when it has focus lock). If you're initial results are lacking somewhat, use center point focus (it is the most reliable) and reframe in post production, with practice you'll start getting good results with the outer points :)
 
I have the Canon 1Ds II and usually use the "Nifty Fifty" when shooting kids indoors.

I use 3200 ISO and Neat Image and take hundreds of pics to make sure I get a lot of keepers.

Kids do move fast and you really do need to take a lot of pics to get the experience to try to anticipate their movements and expressions.

But often it's a case of shoot and hope to catch an expression because if you wait to focus the moment is gone.

This is one example:

Here the girl was playing with her dad and suddenly made the unconscious gesture with her left hand and I shot.

It is slightly OOF but I don't care because of the look of the pic.

Taken on a 350D at 1600 ISO.

1462.jpg

​

And onother quick shot of two sisters playing - they look relaxed but in fact were jumping about and laughing with each other - it was actually shot on continuous and was the best of a series of about 6.

Again taken on the 350D and "Nifty Fifty" at 1600 ISO:

1563.jpg

​

.
 
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OK lets try and help you out..

You have the gear, 50d + 50 f1.8 is a good combo.

My advice to you as regards to auto focus when shooting kids, single shot (no servo continuous whatever). Now this is the important bit, when shooting wide at f1.8 or f2 make sure you select the the correct focus point, you cannot focus and recompose and get consistent results this way, instead compose your shot and select the focus point that falls on the eye. Now let it lock focus and snap away!

Remember what effects DOF too, the closer you are to them the narrower the DOF becomes, so if I wanna really showcase those eyes, I'm going get in close, position them so I have nice light across their face, making sure I have good catch lights, I will shoot wide open with my composition set in camera and the correct focus point selected. Bingo :naughty:

Look for good light, learn how to use it, get that right and the rest is just technical stuff that gets in the way!
 
Matthew thanks a lot :) I am going to give it a shot. I think between what you have said and what hsuffyan has said that my issue is probably lack of light and using too low an ISO (I have tended to pixel peek and have become overly critical of the noise in my pics).

I am going to give it a bash this weekend and will post my results afterwards (oh damn now i HAVE to do it lol).

Thanks again guys.
Dub
 
dubcat said:
Matthew thanks a lot :) I am going to give it a shot. I think between what you have said and what hsuffyan has said that my issue is probably lack of light and using too low an ISO (I have tended to pixel peek and have become overly critical of the noise in my pics).

I am going to give it a bash this weekend and will post my results afterwards (oh damn now i HAVE to do it lol).

Thanks again guys.
Dub
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Noise is well overrated my friend :cuckoo: Go for it, decide what the shot will be BEFORE you take it, get the settings and exposure right and get the shot!! Post up your pics and show us how you get on! Best of luck. :thumbs:
 
Silly question here but do you guys use back button to focus (separate to the shutter release button) or do you use the shutter release button for both autofocus AND shutter release?

I have been using back button focus and i wonder if by the time I have focused there and then hit the shutter release my subject has moved a tiny bit. Would I perhaps be better off having both functions on the one button and then just squeezing it down in one smooth go?

Most people have advised me to use back button focus in the past.
 
dubcat said:
Silly question here but do you guys use back button to focus (separate to the shutter release button) or do you use the shutter release button for both autofocus AND shutter release?

I have been using back button focus and i wonder if by the time I have focused there and then hit the shutter release my subject has moved a tiny bit. Would I perhaps be better off having both functions on the one button and then just squeezing it down in one smooth go?

Most people have advised me to use back button focus in the past.
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I would advise not to use back button focus with the method I have suggested. Instead focus and shoot with the shutter release.
 
For me back button focus works better. I think im as fast if not faster this way than using the shutter button. I have the shutter button pretty much half pressed anyway.
 
Good advice above.

  1. Light - natural if possible
  2. High shutter speeds
  3. AI Servo or Nikon equivalent

Also, increased familiarity with what children do is always good, too. It sounds somewhat vague, but learning how children pick up a ball, react to bubbles being blown, throw themselves at their daddy, is really useful in terms of 'predicting' where a focus point will wind up.

Having a very soft/low power flash can also help freeze them without looking too rubbish in certain circumstances, too.
 
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