cheaper version of Octa Box?

treeman

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Anyone now of a cheaper (though probably not quite so good) version of Elinchroms Octa box? Ideally Elinchrom fit.

In never fails to amaze how sublime the light is from one of these, and it would be great to find a cheaper version (£750 is a tad steep!)
 
ebay, I have a 90cm collapsable one which works great, shame its not got a grid.

I also have a 150cm one, this only has a universal fitting, but I can get it to work on it. it didnt cost much either. I will probably replace that one with a collapable one as well as its a pain to put together.
 
Why is the light from an octobox so good/different to a softbox of a similar size?
 
The head is used the other way around so that it fires into the umbrellas silver surface then the light is bounced back through the front diffused cloth. Trust me it's awesome!
 
Have you considered the Photek Softlighter? Has the same principles - comes as a decagon (more round that octabox) and does marvellous round catchlights like this:

Eyes3.jpg


I bought it from B&H in US. It is very inexpensive and all and all counting the customs to UK it cost me around 90 pounds at that time. Considering that this is a large size softbox and umbrella at the same time, this is a good investment.

It's very easy to setup and takes about 3-5 mins from fully packed to ready to be used.
 
Have you considered the Photek Softlighter? Has the same principles - comes as a decagon (more round that octabox) and does marvellous round catchlights

It's very easy to setup and takes about 3-5 mins from fully packed to ready to be used.

These are really nice. The once I was in a newspaper, the tog used one of these. He said he had thrown away his softboxes and only used these now.
 
Have you considered the Photek Softlighter? Has the same principles - comes as a decagon (more round that octabox) and does marvellous round catchlights like this:



I bought it from B&H in US. It is very inexpensive and all and all counting the customs to UK it cost me around 90 pounds at that time. Considering that this is a large size softbox and umbrella at the same time, this is a good investment.

It's very easy to setup and takes about 3-5 mins from fully packed to ready to be used.

That looks interesting, I wonder what the umbrella shaft size is? I want it for my Elinchrom Quadra's which only take Elinchrom 7mm shafts (crafty:thumbsdown:)

Thanks for this :thumbs:
 
I've had a look and they do an adaptor for Elinchrom, so all in looks like £400 :thumbs:

Don't suppose you've got an example of how it looks with just the Bowens light and no other lights :shrug:

Tonnes :)

My fave...

1
4259474890_bc853dafb2_o.jpg


Some others...

2
4250444257_8559bab5de_o.jpg


I can get you as many as you like, any tests let me know - may take a day or two.

G.
 
Certainly, the quality of the light is very similar. Do you reckon it would stand up to being used as a location light (i.e lots of take down and set ups)?

Thanks for posting those :thumbs:
 
Certainly, the quality of the light is very similar. Do you reckon it would stand up to being used as a location light (i.e lots of take down and set ups)?

Thanks for posting those :thumbs:

Location light (imo), a nightmare. It weighs a tonne, took me forever to assemble it, and I would NOT want to try and pack it away again. Its the absolute opposite of portable, apologies if I missed this in your opening post...

G.
 
Location light (imo), a nightmare. It weighs a tonne, took me forever to assemble it, and I would NOT want to try and pack it away again. Its the absolute opposite of portable, apologies if I missed this in your opening post...

G.

No worries, I forgot to mention the portable bit in my OP Doh!:bonk: Thanks anyway Gary.

I think the Photek softlighter looks like it might be worth a try for the money :shrug: It's effectively a net curtain around the light to diffuse the light as it comes back out of the brolly.
 
That looks interesting, I wonder what the umbrella shaft size is? I want it for my Elinchrom Quadra's which only take Elinchrom 7mm shafts (crafty:thumbsdown:)

Thanks for this :thumbs:

They do both versions 7mm and 8mm (7mm being a special version). Quote from their site:

Photek offers a 7mm SOFTLIGHTER II that does not have a removable shaft. This SOFTLIGHTER II is suggested for use specifically in conjunction with Profoto, Elincrome and Balcar heads
 
If you go for the bowens, the catchlights are completely circular, without any shaded areas either...

The shaded areas on my photo are because my Photek is too large for SB-800 (you can see it up close - the rim of the box is dimmer). I've tried it with dual speedlites and it is much better - nearly perfect circle.
 
It's effectively a net curtain around the light to diffuse the light as it comes back out of the brolly.

The Photek outer cover material itself is more like really white baking paper - somewhere between material and that anyway
 
Sorry I forgot you actually had one :bonk: is it fairly easy to take down and set up?

Yep - the cover takes about a minute max to put on once you open the umbrella. To remove - even faster. The whole box takes me about 3 mins to setup to be ready to shoot.

The whole thing comes in a very portable umbrella case. It also has some light modifiers (round reflectors that you place inside umbrella reflective surface - golden, silver etc) - some versions of the Photek have them at least. Those are a bit fiddly to put in but I don't use them very often.
 
Any chance you could post a pic taken with just this set up?

Yep - this setup is the only one I have at the moment :)

My daughter photos (all were lit only with Photek 46" with SB-800). Not as good as Gary's but I am not a pro ;)

This one just converted to BW - no additional post processing (Lightroom):
Val-20080831-001.jpg


This one processed in PS to blur the background:
Val-20090831-001.jpg


This one also with no PP (Lightroom with all defaults). Here she faces the Photek which is about a meter and a half away:
Val-20090831-002.jpg
 
Yep - this setup is the only one I have at the moment :)

My daughter photos (all were lit only with Photek 46" with SB-800). Not as good as Gary's but I am not a pro ;)

]

Thanks for posting those, pretty damn good, definitely softer than a normal umbrella. I think I'll give that a go, cheers :thumbs:
 
Thanks Richard, but sadly that's not an Octa. The seller is being a bit naughty in using the word Octa to describe the 8 sides. It's a standard Rotalux.
This is an Octa HERE :)

They are all called Octas :thinking: It's a Rotalux Octa 135 http://www.elinchrom.com/products.php?p_id=76#content

The correct technical term for the one you mean is the The Big Daddy Mo-Fo Octa :D

These Lastolite Umbrellaboxes are big. I use one of the smaller ones with 7mm shaft when on my travels. Easy as a regular brolly and v cheap http://www.lastolite.com/umbrellabox.php
 
These Lastolite Umbrellaboxes are big. I use one of the smaller ones with 7mm shaft when on my travels. Easy as a regular brolly and v cheap http://www.lastolite.com/umbrellabox.php

These are pretty much the same as Photek - are they also usable as umbrella (i.e. can you take the cover off)?

The reason I chosen photek was because I wanted to have a really round catchlights without getting too big and still using my speedlight - photek has 10 sides which makes it appear slightly more round than any octabox plus it also doubles as umbrella if needed.
 
Thanks for posting those, pretty damn good, definitely softer than a normal umbrella. I think I'll give that a go, cheers :thumbs:

Re: portable shooting with photek - have a look at this and this, both are using Photek Softlighter on location.
 
These are pretty much the same as Photek - are they also usable as umbrella (i.e. can you take the cover off)?

The reason I chosen photek was because I wanted to have a really round catchlights without getting too big and still using my speedlight - photek has 10 sides which makes it appear slightly more round than any octabox plus it also doubles as umbrella if needed.

Yeah, exactly the same principle. There are a few of these things about, but none that I have seen as big as the Photek and Umbrellabox, though I'm sure a trawl on ebay would find others.

No, you can't take the diffuser off the Umbrellabox which I guess makes it quicker to put up, but less versatile.
 
The head is used the other way around so that it fires into the umbrellas silver surface then the light is bounced back through the front diffused cloth. Trust me it's awesome!

And perfectly round huge catchlights...

Okay I'm with ya. Sounds good but is the only difference in the light between one of these and a softbox the fact it's round? Is the light spill from these like an umbrella or a softbox or does it fall somewhere between? I guess they're designed for studio heads principally but how efficient are they for use with speed lights considering you're bouncing and then diffusing the light. Do you have to use them right up close with speedlights?
 
Okay I'm with ya. Sounds good but is the only difference in the light between one of these and a softbox the fact it's round? Is the light spill from these like an umbrella or a softbox or does it fall somewhere between? I guess they're designed for studio heads principally but how efficient are they for use with speed lights considering you're bouncing and then diffusing the light. Do you have to use them right up close with speedlights?

I used mines with an SB-900 and the results with a real shallow aperture were sublime. I simply hung the 900 on the frame inside the Octobox. You access it all from the front. I don't think you would have an issue using a flashgun...

50% of my studio shots to date have been on speedlights as a result of my delivery issues with the Bowens. Things are better now, but I coped with the SB's...

G.
 
Okay I'm with ya. Sounds good but is the only difference in the light between one of these and a softbox the fact it's round? Is the light spill from these like an umbrella or a softbox or does it fall somewhere between? I guess they're designed for studio heads principally but how efficient are they for use with speed lights considering you're bouncing and then diffusing the light. Do you have to use them right up close with speedlights?

I think that's about it. It's obviously important that the light is spread evenly inside and there are a few different ways of doing that, but the end result is the same.

The main purpose of having the flash head actually inside big softboxes like the Elinchrom 6ft Octa is to make them shorter front to back. They are so huge even in a big studio. Maybe it helps with even diffusion but like I say, that can be achieved in other ways. It also creates a shadow spot which has to be diffused away some how, so I'm far from convinced by that argument. There is also the other difficultly, when using a monoblock, of having the flash controls hidden away inside - so you really need a remote control system.

Even big softboxes are often surprisingly efficient in terms of power. Obviously they spread light over a large surface area, plus absorbsion from various surfaces, but if you use any flash at a little distance the natural spread goes over a wide area anyway, so the difference is not as much as you might think. Having said that, don't stick a hot-shoe gun in a 6ft octa - the light will just get lost.

Smaller ones are quite workable though if you don't expect miracles - bear in mind that if you double the diameter of the light, the area is increased four times. That's two stops, or the difference between 200ws and 800ws. BTW I think the biggest hot-shoe guns are about the equivalent of 60ws, so roughly two stops down on 200ws. Look at that another way, and it's the difference between 100ISO and 400ISO, or f/5.6 and f/11, so there are ways around it. I think the biggest problem with hot-shoe guns for portraiture is not power but slow recycling.
 
I think that's about it. It's obviously important that the light is spread evenly inside and there are a few different ways of doing that, but the end result is the same.

The main purpose of having the flash head actually inside big softboxes like the Elinchrom 6ft Octa is to make them shorter front to back. They are so huge even in a big studio. Maybe it helps with even diffusion but like I say, that can be achieved in other ways. It also creates a shadow spot which has to be diffused away some how, so I'm far from convinced by that argument. There is also the other difficultly, when using a monoblock, of having the flash controls hidden away inside - so you really need a remote control system.

Even big softboxes are often surprisingly efficient in terms of power. Obviously they spread light over a large surface area, plus absorbsion from various surfaces, but if you use any flash at a little distance the natural spread goes over a wide area anyway, so the difference is not as much as you might think. Having said that, don't stick a hot-shoe gun in a 6ft octa - the light will just get lost.

Smaller ones are quite workable though if you don't expect miracles - bear in mind that if you double the diameter of the light, the area is increased four times. That's two stops, or the difference between 200ws and 800ws. BTW I think the biggest hot-shoe guns are about the equivalent of 60ws, so roughly two stops down on 200ws. Look at that another way, and it's the difference between 100ISO and 400ISO, or f/5.6 and f/11, so there are ways around it. I think the biggest problem with hot-shoe guns for portraiture is not power but slow recycling.

I just found the hot shoes so inconsistent. And as you pointed out, you may need to take am ISO hit. I ran at 400, f8....have since gone to F11 ISO200 with no problem with cycle times.

The other MAJOR pain in the ass was battery usage.

G.
 
You are getting some great images out of your studio Gary. Love that one with the disc cutter thing :thumbs:
 
Cheers. I'm still striving for more control, might pick your brains later. Built my GIANT SOFTBOX :)

Gary.

Ooo! Is that your mega Hilite jobbie? I'm liking it already :)
 
Ooo! Is that your mega Hilite jobbie? I'm liking it already :)

Aye, 4 metre x 4 metre. As suggested, there is a TOUCH MORE wrap. Nothing to write home about. I need to sort some shots out, but there are various bits I am unhappy with. I will write it all up in a thread once I nail it.

G.
 
I used mines with an SB-900 and the results with a real shallow aperture were sublime.
...

50% of my studio shots to date have been on speedlights

Is those shots that you posted earlier were done with SB-900? They were awesome. I have not tried SB-900 yet, still on my SB-800 but I know that SB-800 is not enough on smaller apertures to light the whole 46" Photek - would love to try the SB-900 (may be one day soon)...
 
Is those shots that you posted earlier were done with SB-900? They were awesome. I have not tried SB-900 yet, still on my SB-800 but I know that SB-800 is not enough on smaller apertures to light the whole 46" Photek - would love to try the SB-900 (may be one day soon)...

No, but the results would be just as good (IMO). Please bear in mind, the brown backdrop shot was f1.4. I reckon I am good with a 900 up to about f11 at ISO400 in the thing...

G.
 
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