Cheaper brands of lights (smick.co.uk)

AlicePalice

AlicePalice

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Yes
Im trying to get a twin kit of 400w or 500w, and didnt reaaaaaallly want to spend more than £600/£650 on a 500w bowens set but havent been lucky enough to find one on eBay.

Just doing some Googling and found smick.co.uk selling a 400w twin kit for £389 which would be fantastic for me, money wise!

Does anyone have any experience of them? Is it better to buy a proper brand? Im so confused but Im getting desperate now! I NEED to order something asap!

http://www.smick.co.uk/sonline/400w-2-head-flash-kit/prod_441.html
 
You get what you pay for that's for sure. I have been much more than happy buying Lencarta kit. Quality gear at very good prices. Take a wee while searching through this forum. It will be worth it.
 
If you think spending 2/3rds to 3/4s the price of a proven, reliable brand on an unknown entity is worthwhile, go for it.
 
I am amazed that no one on here has these or one of the other lots of ebay lights. The advice given is always based on the fear that these cheap lights may not be any good, but equally they might be absolutely fine, since no one has them we will never know!!!!

This is a big forum, someone must have some experience?
 
Dave Pickett said:
I am amazed that no one on here has these or one of the other lots of ebay lights. The advice given is always based on the fear that these cheap lights may not be any good, but equally they might be absolutely fine, since no one has them we will never know!!!!

This is a big forum, someone must have some experience?
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I have a lot of experience of 'Ebay lights' which is why I advise against them;)

Leaving aside lights sold outside of the EU, there are basically 3 choices
1st level - Bron, Profoto
2nd level - Bowens, Elinchrom, Lencarta
3rd level - Everything else

The price difference between 1st level and 2nd level is massive, but the price difference between 2nd level and 3rd level is IMO too small to risk buying the 3rd level lights
'Everything else' includes a relatively small number of different manufacturers, normally based in mainland China or Hong Kong. Their businesses are 'export only' i.e. everything they make is made down to a price, not up to a quality standard, and very few people in their own country will buy it, so it goes for export. It's sold unbranded, typically a re-seller arranges with the factory to have its own labels stuck on the case. The re-seller then sells it as their own brand, and some of them even claim to have their own factory:) These products are generally easy to recognise because they look exactly the same (apart from the label) as products sold by other sellers (there's a reason for that) and generally, because the seller knows very little about them, they give virtually no detailed info, say little or nothing about the spec and certainly don't tell you what's inside the case, (which is usually either a brittle plastic or a cheap alloy that may not meet EU safety standards).

Now, if you can live with a flash kit made down to a low price (even if it's sold at a high price in this country) and don't care about cheap componants, poor consistency in terms of flash energy and colour temperature and possibly poor safety standards, you might want to think about customer support - if it goes wrong, will the supplier be able to repair it, bearing in mind that they are only re-sellers and may not have the spares, the technical expertise and the facilities that they claim to have? And what if problems occur once they no longer sell that particular model, i.e. once they've found an even cheaper supplier? And what if they go bust?

Most of the ebay sellers of these cheap lights do in fact sell them off of ebay too, but new ebay sellers come and go, some are selling directly from the far east (so the problems you're likely to have when the gear goes wrong will make it uneconomic to return, but at least you'll only be paying twice the factory gate price instead of 4x).
 
AlicePalice said:
Thanks Kris, I have signed up :) I see Lara Jade is on the front cover this month - she gets about doesnt she!? Love her work so hope they will send me that one too!
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%[

They don't send it to you, you view it online.

Click the view button to see the latest copy. Opens in a strange magazine reader format, but its okay.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Leaving aside lights sold outside of the EU, there are basically 3 choices
1st level - Bron, Profoto
2nd level - Bowens, Elinchrom, Lencarta
3rd level - Everything else
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Sorry Garry, I know you work for them and therefore are keen to promote it any time you can, but I just cant see how you can equate a Lencarta and an Elinchrom/Bowens. I have used a friends Lencarta briefly, and he my Elinchrom stuff, and they are night and day (cost wise as well, admittedly). I have never once seen a Lencarta in professional use, or ever in a professionals studio, though I am sure you can tell me of exceptions.

I prefer to think of Lencarta (and Elemental) lights as like the UK version of Alien Bees, which is absolutely no bad thing - value is very high and I am sure they are suitable for many things. But an Elinchrom/Bowens they are not.
 
Kris,
You're entitled to your opinion but I know better. I know for example of many full time pro studio photographers who have moved from other brands to Lencarta and who use them day in, day out (as I do). Several members of this forum attended the first of the Lencarta studio workshops at the beginning of this month and saw the Lencarta lights for themselves. I think it's possible that your friend's Lencarta lights may have been the original version, sold on Ebay, which perhaps do compare to 'bargain basement' lights (although IMO still better than most) - but those lights are ancient history now:)
 
I've bought for Smick before, I got a continuous light set from them. Great for video, build contstruction not all that amazing (one of the light stands pretty much fell apart within the first week, although I sent 'em photos to show what happened to it and they sent me a replacement for free, didn't even want the broken one back so it's now been modified for use as a hand-held boom arm), but they do the job for video.

I'm not sure I'd be confident spending money on their flash gear. I've not tried it, but given the feel and durability of their continuous stuff, I get the feeling that if I bought their flash systems, I'd be wanting to replace them with something better after 10 minutes of use.
 
Kris said:
Glad we cleared that up then.

:)

I might be wrong, but at least my opinion is impartial.
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I think that I've answered enough questions on this (and other forums) for people to know that, regardless of any business connections I have, I answer to the best of my ability and, where I do make recommendations on lighting equipment, I give an honest answer. This thread is just one example of this.
Sometimes that answer is Elinchrom, especially where heavy duty pro flash generators is concerned, sometimes it's Bowens, sometimes it's Lencarta. I admit that I usually recommend Lencarta on this forum - but I recommend it because I honestly believe it to be the best choice, most of the time, for most people.

Whatever reputation I have was formed long before my involvement with Lencarta, and if you believe that my answers are anything other than honest then you're wrong about that too.
 
I never questioned your personal honesty or professionalism, but allegiance.

At what point does advice end, and blatant, but disguised, promotion by somebody who is paid to promote a particular brand end?

Threads that ask for advice about Elinchrom or Bowens equipment has nothing to do with your advice/promotion to buy Lencarta instead, as earlier today.

I think you should make it more obvious that you are paid to promote Lencarta in your replies, and that should be included in your sig and anywhere you give advice to buy Lencarta. A casual reader will not know this allegiance.

Or am I just wrong again?
 
Kris said:
I never questioned your personal honesty or professionalism, but allegiance.

At what point does advice end, and blatant, but disguised, promotion by somebody who is paid to promote a particular brand end?

Threads that ask for advice about Elinchrom or Bowens equipment has nothing to do with your advice/promotion to buy Lencarta instead, as earlier today.

I think you should make it more obvious that you are paid to promote Lencarta in your replies, and that should be included in your sig and anywhere you give advice to buy Lencarta. A casual reader will not know this allegiance.

Or am I just wrong again?
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I'm not paid to promote Lencarta or any other brand, I'm paid to provide both them and customers with technical support, and to provide customer support.

Posts that do promote Lencarta are posted by me under the name of Lencarta - I think that's pretty clear. And I think it's pretty clear too, from the many times that I have stated my interest, that I am involved with Lencarta. My signature doesn't include that info because the advertiser account under my own name is paid for by me (Photolearn) and not by Lencarta.

But if you feel that I'm doing something wrong or unethical, please feel free to tell the admins about it.
 
Kris said:
I have used a friends Lencarta briefly, and he my Elinchrom stuff, and they are night and day (cost wise as well, admittedly).
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I wonder if you could expand on this comment as I'm looking to buy studio equipment myself. Are they not as.. powerful; strong; reliable; equiped; featured; configurable etc etc.

I've heard some good stuff about them but I want to know what else you get with the likes of Bowens and other makes mentioned. Are they not upto being used for 'on location' but work great in a studio??
 
Yes, I think it is wrong that you can promote a brand over others to people who do not know that you are in the pay of that company. You need to make it clearer. Where is the technical or customer support in this thread?

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=221566


Levi - comparing Lencarta and Elinchrom - this is from a glance at the spec sheet - I have never used a modern Lencarta....

Power - Elinchrom go a stop (twice as powerful) over the most powerful Lencarta, and that includes running off a battery with a ranger.

Strong/reliable - impossible to quantify, but I do know more professionals use Elinchrom than Lencarta. Depends on how well you look after them.

Equipped/featured/configurable - afaik (and I cant talk with authority as I dont know much about Lencarta, the ones I saw may have been early copies), and most importantly for me, you can't adjust the power of a Lencarta remotely, Lencarta do not offer anything like the Quadra (but then most others don't either), across the range power ratios, ability to go to low powers.

I'm sure I would be very happy with Lencarta if I was new in the market for a studio flash system, but I'm not. But if I was, I would be looking for impartial advice.
 
interesting debate. To be fair I think everyone knows Garrys involvenent with Lencarta but I have found that rather than just say "Lencarta is better" Garry gives a decent explanation, like the number of capacitors, consistent output etc, so I have no problem with his advice, which I feel is genuine.

I am trying to get the funds together for studio flash and am trying to decide between Elemental Genesis and Lencarta Smartflash. Have now found Photodeals units which look good and are well priced, its not an easy decision!

I equally feel the ebay lights cant be that bad, but no one has any experience so its an unknown quantity.
 
Dave Pickett said:
To be fair I think everyone knows Garrys involvenent with Lencarta
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Shouldn't have to think it, it should be obvious. I didn't know about it, but was just curious to see someone consistently evangelise one brand on threads that were not even asking about Lencarta.

I'm sure that Garry's insider knowledge is worthwhile and his opinion is just as valid as any others, but even MPs have to declare in interest.
 
Kris said:
Shouldn't have to think it, it should be obvious. I didn't know about it, but was just curious to see someone consistently evangelise one brand on threads that were not even asking about Lencarta.

I'm sure that Garry's insider knowledge is worthwhile and his opinion is just as valid as any others, but even MPs have to declare in interest.
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Kris, you seem to have some kind of bee on your bonnet and it's clear that nothing that I or anyone might say will influence your own thought processes, so I'll leave you to your thoughts.

But let me make one final comment. The OP asked about a specific flash kit. The first reply was from a satisfied Lencarta customer, not from me.
Someone else then asked about Ebay lights, I contributed my answer to this specific question, my reply was post No.6 and I didn't recommend Lencarta lights specifically, I just listed the various makes available and explained why IMO it is generally much better to buy one of those makes.

Then, in post No.11, you chipped in and accused me of promoting Lencarta lights, even though I hadn't, and long after the OP had decided to buy another make, and you have been promoting your views on my motives ever since.

You may or may not have your own motives for behaving in this way. I don't know, because nobody can know the motives of anyone else, and frankly I don't care either. Other people can make their own judgements, as far as I am concerned the subject is closed.
 
No problem. It was getting rather time consuming anyway.

I think you are referring to a different thread Garry, than the one I linked to. There are only 7 posts in that one, and it was asking about Elinchrom lights only, and had nothing to do with Lencarta until you brought it up.

I think that if anyone is taking advice from anybody on which equipment to buy, they should be fully aware if that person is in the pay of the very company that they consistently recommend.

It's called a conflict of interest and should be declared as impartial. There is no other way to look at it.

Let sleeping dogs lie. If the mods and forum are happy with it, then who am I to question it.


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