Cheap product shot flash "studio" advice

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James J

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Been looking around the internet recently trying to figure out exactly what I need to do product photography in controlled lighting conditions. I understand that light tents are probably a good starting point when it comes to this sort of photography, yet I haven't got much of a clue when it comes to the lightning!

Gear so far is as follows in terms of flash etc:

Canon 5D mk ii
Canon ST-E2 controller
Yongnuo 565EX II

This allows me to do off camera flash but thats it.

When it comes to studio lighting i'm massively confused by whats on offer and don't know how much power I'll even need to do the shots I want. Also, how do you actually activate the studio lights in the first place? Can I use my ST-E2 for this or do I need to start looking at even more gear? Can I just buy something like 2x yongnuo 467 flashes and use them + my 565EX II to provide suitable lighting to the tent if I get one?

Need advice, got around £200 to spend.
 
I have not used a light tent but I have found 2 off camera flashes on stands with white shoot through brollies work well. I also used some white A3 paper for the background (tape a few bits together from behind if you need more.).

Might be a good cheap alternative to start. The light stands etc can be used for other types of photography where as the light tent is more restrictive and more specialist.

Here is an example or two of what I achieved with the above.

March19th2012-26.jpg


March19th2012-6.jpg


March19th2012-1.jpg
 
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Thats a similar sort of idea I had with buying 2x 467 flashguns but I didn't factor in the umbrellas into it. Atleast I know that works and its a pretty damn cheap idea.
 
Light tents are not a good starting point, basically they're the tool of choice for ebay sellers and the like who just need bland lighting that shows what the product looks like, without any creative input. It is actually possible to produce reasonably creative results with them, but it's making hard work out of a relatively simple job.

The question really is what do you want to photograph and what sort of results are you looking for? If flat, bland lighting is all you want then a light tent will do the job, and you can use daylight for it.

If you really are on a tight budget and already have hotshoe flash guns then they're usable, but far from ideal - the limited power, lack of a modelling lamp and lack of effective modifiers doesn't make them ideal. This thread is well worth reading, and there are also at least two other threads below this one that address the same issue.

Using hotshoe flashguns (or any other type of light) with shoot through umbrellas will give you much the same results that Dean posted above. If you're happy with flat, bland lighting with no shadows then fine, but if you're not then you need to use lighting tools that define the shape of the product and show its best points. This doesn't need to be complicated, for example this shot was taken with just a single light
largesoftbox.jpg

and you can see exactly how it was done here by clicking here
To answer the other part of your question, studio lights are normally triggered either by using a radio trigger or by using a synch cord, that fits to both the camera and the flash head.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Light tents are not a good starting point, basically they're the tool of choice for ebay sellers and the like who just need bland lighting that shows what the product looks like, without any creative input. It is actually possible to produce reasonably creative results with them, but it's making hard work out of a relatively simple job.

The question really is what do you want to photograph and what sort of results are you looking for? If flat, bland lighting is all you want then a light tent will do the job, and you can use daylight for it.

If you really are on a tight budget and already have hotshoe flash guns then they're usable, but far from ideal - the limited power, lack of a modelling lamp and lack of effective modifiers doesn't make them ideal. This thread is well worth reading, and there are also at least two other threads below this one that address the same issue.

Using hotshoe flashguns (or any other type of light) with shoot through umbrellas will give you much the same results that Dean posted above. If you're happy with flat, bland lighting with no shadows then fine, but if you're not then you need to use lighting tools that define the shape of the product and show its best points. This doesn't need to be complicated, for example this shot was taken with just a single light
largesoftbox.jpg

and you can see exactly how it was done here by clicking here
To answer the other part of your question, studio lights are normally triggered either by using a radio trigger or by using a synch cord, that fits to both the camera and the flash head.
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Just had a read of the threads and it looks like thats the sort of setup I want really to do some good shots of products with. As a lencarta employee, which parts from your range would you recommend for this job?
 
James J said:
Just had a read of the threads and it looks like thats the sort of setup I want really to do some good shots of products with. As a lencarta employee, which parts from your range would you recommend for this job?
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Not an employee, but never mind:)
That particular shot involved
1 x ElitePro flash head
1 x 70 x 140cm softbox
1 x boom arm (to support the flash head in the right place)
1 x 5 in 1 reflector.
There may have been other bits and pieces, but these were the essentials.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Not an employee, but never mind:)
That particular shot involved
1 x ElitePro flash head
1 x 70 x 140cm softbox
1 x boom arm (to support the flash head in the right place)
1 x 5 in 1 reflector.
There may have been other bits and pieces, but these were the essentials.
Click to expand...

Finding it hard to beat this recommendation at the moment even though its above my budget. Seems that buying right, buy it once is probably gonna be in effect here. Just worried my focal range might affect me with this sort of setup as my widest lens is a 50mm prime atm!

Any idea when that head is coming back in stock btw? Thanks for the help thus far also!
 
James J said:
Finding it hard to beat this recommendation at the moment even though its above my budget. Seems that buying right, buy it once is probably gonna be in effect here. Just worried my focal range might affect me with this sort of setup as my widest lens is a 50mm prime atm!

Any idea when that head is coming back in stock btw? Thanks for the help thus far also!
Click to expand...
All the items on that list are in stock at the moment. Sorry, I posted the wrong link, the correct link is here
You won't want a lens wider than 50mm for product shots, wide angle lenses create far more problems than they solve. Typically, on a full frame camera, I use something around 150mm most of the time.
 
Garry Edwards said:
All the items on that list are in stock at the moment. Sorry, I posted the wrong link, the correct link is here
You won't want a lens wider than 50mm for product shots, wide angle lenses create far more problems than they solve. Typically, on a full frame camera, I use something around 150mm most of the time.
Click to expand...

Even better then as I have a sigma 150mm F2.8 macro lens and a canon 70-200 F4 so have a few choices then.
 
How do you rate that tomato and pepper shot, whats good or bad about it?. I've seen it used a lot, so I assume it must have benchmark attributes that commend it, I just wonder what they are:).
 
Steve T said:
How do you rate that tomato and pepper shot, whats good or bad about it?. I've seen it used a lot, so I assume it must have benchmark attributes that commend it, I just wonder what they are:).
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It's just an example of how easy it is to produce diffused specular highlights, and how easy it is to do a shot like this using just one light
 
Garry,

I've just ordered the head, reflector, soft box and boom you quoted for me so thanks very much for recommending them. For the price, the specifications on each of the items are very hard to beat and the setup will be perfect for what I have in mind after reading numerous tutorials, websites and users comments, reviews and techniques.

I'll let you know how I get on with it all when it turns up, whenever that may be lol
 
You've made a good choice - as you'll find out on Tuesday...
 
James J said:
So thats when it'll turn up then eh? I'll hold you to that... lol
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Lencarta are pretty good with deliveries, at least that's my experience, so I'd be surprised if it doesn't arrive Tuesday.
 
Even better then as I'm off until the 9th July as I then have a pathology lab placement for a month so won't have much opportunity for shots then sadly.
 
Hmm my order still says processing so I'm not sure if its been dispatched or not. Any ideas with that Garry?
 
James J said:
Hmm my order still says processing so I'm not sure if its been dispatched or not. Any ideas with that Garry?
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It's been dispatched and is due to be delivered tomorrow.
 
James J said:
Hmm my order still says processing so I'm not sure if its been dispatched or not. Any ideas with that Garry?
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They always say "processing" even after they've been dispatched & delivered. Gotta say that's one thing they could/should improve with their online shopping system. It should at least indicate when an item has dispatched.

James J said:
Still waiting for my delivery -.-
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Be surprised if it doesn't show today. Your address might be one of the last ones on the delivery route, it happens to me all the time and I often get deliveries at 7pm in the evening! Still, hope it arrives safe & sound.
 
Its arrived and all set up so thanks to Garry for chasing it with the delivery company. Trying to work out how high I need the soft box and what power I need to get a black background on my product shots. Any ideas into these "settings"?
 
James J said:
Its arrived and all set up so thanks to Garry for chasing it with the delivery company. Trying to work out how high I need the soft box and what power I need to get a black background on my product shots. Any ideas into these "settings"?
Click to expand...

You need to tell us much more about what you're photographing...
 
At the moment, very small items such as shells and even a faberge egg. I've go the soft box very low, just out of the frame and the results are more pleasing than I would have hoped so far. Just tweaking them though to find out where I need to position things in the limited space I have in the room I've now turned into a mini studio at home.

I'll put on a sample in a few mins so you can see what I've been doing. How did you actually turn the background fully black with your photo Garry? The highest my 5D mk ii will go with shutter speeds is 1/200 without getting the black band starting to appear (at 1/250 and above). So far I'm shooting at around F10-11 and have the head with the soft box on at around 1/8 to 1/4 power with just the initial button pressed for the light. I still need to sit down and work out what the other buttons do incase I'm missing something essential from the head itself!
 
My lighting arrangement is fully explained in the blog entry.There are some major differences between the way I did it an the way that you've done it.
Firstly, my product base was a piece of 'black glass', a smoked glass table top, this produced a reflection of the subject, and apart from the difference in the visual effect, following the principle that the angle of reflectance equals the angle of incidence, the light from the overhead softbox bounced off of the glass at the same angle as the angle at which it struck, which means that it didn't light it.

Secondly, my camera height was much, much lower. You're looking down from above, which has created perspective distortion and also an out of focus area. But it has affected the amount of light visible on your product base too, because it's showing much more of it, due to the higher camera angle.

So, your background isn't really a background at all, it's a product base. My background is a white wall behind the subject, it doesn't show as white because no light is reaching it. This allows for the background to be lit separately (if required) as in this shot
fillcard1.jpg

Where a blue gel over a second light has added the background light.
The highest my 5D mk ii will go with shutter speeds is 1/200 without getting the black band starting to appear (at 1/250 and above).
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The shutter speed isn't relevant. All that you need to do is to make sure that no light reaches the background (which isn't possible when the background is in fact the product base) or to use a background/product base that either reflects almost no light at all (black velvet) or which reflects a lot of light (glass) but which reflects the light away from the lens.
So far I'm shooting at around F10-11 and have the head with the soft box on at around 1/8 to 1/4 power
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That isn't relevant either, what matters is the ratio of light (the amount of unwanted light that reaches somewhere it shouldn't) not the quantity of light. This is fixed and isn't related to the power setting of the light.
 
Understood, I'll try and source a base that allows reflections properly. All I've got at the moment is a few stone plate mats which do reflect but have a rather harsh pattern on them. I did a quick test shot at a vastly lower angle and see what you mean as even that starts to show avery nice and clear reflection.
 
James J said:
Understood, I'll try and source a base that allows reflections properly. All I've got at the moment is a few stone plate mats which do reflect but have a rather harsh pattern on them. I did a quick test shot at a vastly lower angle and see what you mean as even that starts to show avery nice and clear reflection.
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Yes, camera position is vitally important and makes a huge difference. Just experiment with various surfaces that you have lying around.

I'm more than happy to give advice, but you'll learn more/quicker just by experimenting, once you have a good grasp of the principles.
 
Yeah definitely. Struggling to find some suitable materials so I've been looking for something suitable online. The photos I've taken so far have all been accepted by stock websites without any issues so I'm at least happy about that lol.

I'll keep trying though.
 
James J said:
Yeah definitely. Struggling to find some suitable materials so I've been looking for something suitable online. The photos I've taken so far have all been accepted by stock websites without any issues so I'm at least happy about that lol.

I'll keep trying though.
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I bought a sheet of glass used in large picture frames from Hobbycraft. Lay that on some white or black foamboard and you get a nice reflection. Safety issue though, since the glass is quite thin and fragile, with sharp edges.

I've heard of people buying cheap clear arcylic sheets from ebay to do the same, with great success and much safer than glass.

Or as Garry says, a clear or tinted glass tabletop...it's usually safety-glass.

lots of options really...

Darren
 
Yeah I've been looking at the acrylic route as B&Q sell some sheets (clear) that are nearly the same size as my soft box for less than £20. Can't seem to find a smaller one at a good price though sadly. The table top idea is quite pricey sadly as I've also looked into that. Noticed that black glossy tiles can be had which are around 30cm by 20cm, but the question is, is that actually large enough for small products as I'd have to seek something much larger for the bigger ones?
 
I usually chip in when this kind of shot is talked about. I have done a series of images including this one
35rc.jpg

Which i feel suits what your looking for.
I am in the process of putting together some video tutorials on how to do different things but time is a factor i don't have.
Just gotta love acrylic lol
 
James J said:
Yeah I've been looking at the acrylic route as B&Q sell some sheets (clear) that are nearly the same size as my soft box for less than £20. Can't seem to find a smaller one at a good price though sadly. The table top idea is quite pricey sadly as I've also looked into that. Noticed that black glossy tiles can be had which are around 30cm by 20cm, but the question is, is that actually large enough for small products as I'd have to seek something much larger for the bigger ones?
Click to expand...

I pick up materials from all over the place... the "broken bin" at Ikea, offcuts from sign makes, Freecycle, Sheets of perspex from B&Q (sctratch easy), end of range tiles...
 
Simon photo said:
I usually chip in when this kind of shot is talked about. I have done a series of images including this one
35rc.jpg

Which i feel suits what your looking for.
I am in the process of putting together some video tutorials on how to do different things but time is a factor i don't have.
Just gotta love acrylic lol
Click to expand...
Yes, acrylic is useful but it's by no means the only material that works - as Richard says, just find odds and ends, and as I said, use your imagination and experiment.

Unfortunately adding the background 'lighting' in PS as per your shot just doesn't work, it needs to be a genuine light to avoid looking fake.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yes, acrylic is useful but it's by no means the only material that works - as Richard says, just find odds and ends, and as I said, use your imagination and experiment.

Unfortunately adding the background 'lighting' in PS as per your shot just doesn't work, it needs to be a genuine light to avoid looking fake.
Click to expand...

Honestly! Tsk Gary, i thought you knew your stuff.
All you see here is pure honest light
Honestly! And if you can't work out how its done and have to revert to stabbing in the dark then im sorry but your wrong
 
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This has one hell of a steep learning curve. Sadly the only decent reflective material I can find in the house is a solid granite style table mat which is nearly as old as I am. Its not big enough for larger objects (sadly) and the reflection from any object is marred by the effect in the stone (almost looks like camouflage lol). Its teaching me how to position the light though properly as now my background walls etc are completely black and I'm getting very detailed reflections coming through.

Perspex isn't something I actually thought of. I was looking at getting some vinyl 8inch tap and some cheap MDF boards and combine the two, but I've been looking to see if it actually would work on the internet but I've come up trumps every time lol.

Got some large plates (dark brown) which have a very small lip which might come in handy though as I can just fill them with water to gain nice reflections on the subjects without any strange patterns showing up like I have at the moment. I'll test as usual and post on how I get on.
 
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