Cheap little portrait setup - now with shots!

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silverJON

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Jonathan
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My girlfriend's running a ball for about 100 people in a few days. They'll all be in black tie, and I was going to be there to run around shooting people as they mingled and danced, with an on-camera flash setup.

But it turns out there might be a little bit more money left over, and with that it would be great to hire and set up a little station in the corner where people could have portraits done.

The problem is, I have no idea where to start! I'm in Central London without a car, so I can't easily deal with big lights and backgrounds, but I wondered if I could somehow compromise and there were some mini setup I could use? Like a little portable background that's only say three feet wide, and some basic lightweight lighting setup. Just a light and umbrella or something. What do I need? Where do I start?

My kit is as follows: Pentax K-7 (PC socket connection!), 17-50/2.8, 50/1.4, 135/3.5 (manual exposure), 80-200/4.7-5.6. Metz 48 AF-1 flash, various diffusers and gels. A cheap remote dual flash trigger system.

Please help!

Thanks very much

Jonathan
 
Check out my signature. I'm selling a 3 head studio kit delivered for £175. A fantastic price and would be ideal for your night too :)

Pictures of the item are in my thread too. But it will work from a PC cable so will work with any camera with a PC socket (if it doesn't have one you can get a pc to hotshoe adaptor).
 
Thanks but you say it's sold!

I'm thinking something simpler?
 
OK, so I've done some uninformed research, and found two lighting kits that might be suitable:

400j Set (inc pack 2x heads 3x
batteries,charger,2x umbrellas, head extn cable) (£24 for a day)

ProFoto Pro B2 2 Head Kit
(Pack, 2x Pro 7b heads, Battery, 2x Reflectors, 2x
Stands, 2x Umbrellas, 2x Sync Leads, 1x head to
pack 5m ext. and Charger) (£62 for a day)

So I was wondering:
  • Do these kits have the right lights to make nice photos?
  • My last studio photography experience was when they made me sit on a little stool with my school uniform on and asked me to smile. I'm camera-savvy but not studio-savvy; will I be able to plug it all in and get it going on my own?
  • Will I be able to physically carry these kits? I'm built like, well, an engineering student and I have a titanium spine.
  • Would there any benefit over just putting two extra cheap hotshoe flashes on stands and setting them off with my cheap V2s?

Thanks!

Jonathan
 
Have you any experience of lighting for portraits?
 
profoto kit is just a tad overkill....lol, though that's a very reasonable price to hire all of that for...where's that from?

neither is really not a small or lightweight kit though, the dlites aren't huge mind, but you wouldn't want to have to carry it around for miles... Bash them at safe 45 degrees angles bounced through the brollies on as plain a background as you can find and you will probably be ok. It won't offer that much advantage over two speedlights popped on stands with reflective brollies though, however it is only £24 for the day...
 
Have you any experience of lighting for portraits?
Click to expand...
Nope, though I've read enough to know about the basics. To be honest, the whole object is to enhance the ambience at the event, rather than produce nice shots. But nice shots would be a bonus.
It won't offer that much advantage over two speedlights popped on stands with reflective brollies though
Click to expand...
I can do that... I can buy two cheap, powerful manual flashes, and a couple of flash stands, and some cheap brollies... seems more realistic, no? Will it all hold out for a couple of hours of shooting?
 
Oh, and I need to know where to buy or rent a background, and how to light it...
 
silverJON said:
I need to light it too, or I get funny-shaped shadows behind the subject, right?
Click to expand...

If you need to ask questions like this then, honestly, you shouldn't be attempting to photograph up to 100 people - 'in a few days'.
 
awp said:
If you need to ask questions like this then, honestly, you shouldn't be attempting to photograph up to 100 people - 'in a few days'.
Click to expand...

The guy's asking for some help and not to be told he shouldn't be attempting it. We all have to start somewhere!

Jonathon, can't offer you any advice but good luck anyway.
 
Chucking your self in at the deep end when you can't swim is not the way to go about it. He needs to start with a couple of friends in a stress free environment - not an event for 100! Luck doesn't - or shouldn't come in to it.
 
I would not attempt any form of BG lighting up front, instead I would focus on getting a nice exposure on your subjects. Shoot them against a roll of white paper and let the fall off from the keylight add to the nicely shaded backdrop.

G.
 
EdinburghGary said:
I would not attempt any form of BG lighting up front, instead I would focus on getting a nice exposure on your subjects. Shoot them against a roll of white paper and let the fall off from the keylight add to the nicely shaded backdrop.

G.
Click to expand...

+1

maybe a spare speedlight could be shoved up on the corner pointing at the bg to give a graduation but in no way is it necessary

light grey paper looks good too ;)
 
There's always one 'OH MY GOD DON'T DO IT' post, isn't there?

Fact: If you give it enough time once you're set up in advance (which of course you would be) and have a willing volunteer ready to get bored when you set up, then any of the basic guides will get you half of the way there.

If you know what you need to tweak to counter the problems you'll get, you will be completely fine. Use a white/light grey paper background and don't position them too close to it. Shoot RAW and take your time, practise before they get there and have a spare of everything - particularly sync cables, they can be a nightmare if they start to play up.

It may not be everyone's style to push themselves in this way, but I admire both your bravery (it's still a fairly pressured environment) and your willingness to accept feedback and tips by posting this.

Remarks such as 'if you have to ask etc.' quite frankly aren't massively helpful and whilst I can see the point being made, I still wish you the best of luck!

Cheers,
James
 
Moos3h said:
There's always one 'OH MY GOD DON'T DO IT' post, isn't there?

Fact: If you give it enough time once you're set up in advance (which of course you would be) and have a willing volunteer ready to get bored when you set up, then any of the basic guides will get you half of the way there.

If you know what you need to tweak to counter the problems you'll get, you will be completely fine. Use a white/light grey paper background and don't position them too close to it. Shoot RAW and take your time, practise before they get there and have a spare of everything - particularly sync cables, they can be a nightmare if they start to play up.

It may not be everyone's style to push themselves in this way, but I admire both your bravery (it's still a fairly pressured environment) and your willingness to accept feedback and tips by posting this.

Remarks such as 'if you have to ask etc.' quite frankly aren't massively helpful and whilst I can see the point being made, I still wish you the best of luck!

Cheers,
James
Click to expand...

Thank you for your support - greatly appreciated! I will definitely have a practice in my own time and shoot RAW (14GB of memory card and shooting RAW @ 15 megapixels should give me enough space).

I've been researching further, and thinking, and I visited Jacob's and London Camera Exchange this afternoon. (I'll visit the Flash Centre when I can.)

I think my best bet is as follows:

Kit list (stuff I already own):
K-7 with 50/1.4 or 135/3.5
Metz 48 AF-1
Manfrotto tripod
Dual Cactus V3s (possibly an ebay knockoff)

Stuff to acquire:
Another flash (can be old and cheap, must have manual control, trigger voltage not an issue)
Another cheapo light stand or tripod
Two flash brackets with umbrella holes
Gold reflective umbrella
Silver reflective umbrella

Plan:
Metz to one side of subject with silver umbrella
Weaker-set flash to other side of subject with gold umbrella
Connect transmitter via PC socket instead of camera hot shoe, so I can use the pop-up flash as a catchlight

How's it looking so far?

Thanks :)
 
don't use one gold and one silver umbrella, they'll look tanned on one side of their face and pale on the other. both silver for this kind of stuff. good luck :)
 
itsdavedotnet said:
don't use one gold and one silver umbrella, they'll look tanned on one side of their face and pale on the other. both silver for this kind of stuff. good luck :)
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Cheers, that helps. Sorry, I forgot to answer: those rental deals were from The Flash Centre.

What about both umbrellas being gold? Will that look silly too? We're talking a load of 18-21 year olds, mostly of white or Oriental colouring.
 
Can FITP do you a next day del spesh?
 
silverJON said:
My girlfriend's running a ball for about 100 people in a few days. They'll all be in black tie, and I was going to be there to run around shooting people as they mingled and danced, with an on-camera flash setup.

But it turns out there might be a little bit more money left over, and with that it would be great to hire and set up a little station in the corner where people could have portraits done.

The problem is, I have no idea where to start! I'm in Central London without a car, so I can't easily deal with big lights and backgrounds, but I wondered if I could somehow compromise and there were some mini setup I could use? Like a little portable background that's only say three feet wide, and some basic lightweight lighting setup. Just a light and umbrella or something. What do I need? Where do I start?

My kit is as follows: Pentax K-7 (PC socket connection!), 17-50/2.8, 50/1.4, 135/3.5 (manual exposure), 80-200/4.7-5.6. Metz 48 AF-1 flash, various diffusers and gels. A cheap remote dual flash trigger system.

Please help!

Thanks very much

Jonathan
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good fun gig.
Do it the way that's easy for you and guarantees results.

Hire two monoblock heads from the flash centre.
Give them a bit of chat about what you're doing and get a soft box and a flash meter thrown in. (offer them pint / plead poverty / blah blah / they're good lads).
Get a white sheet and some gaffer tape. (Not sellotape - Gaffer tape).
Tape up the sheet pretty tight (but don't obsess on it - you're going to use it as a pure white). Or slap it up it into a corner (which always works)...
Light it like this:
setup.jpg


Set the background head on full. Meter it. Set the "bods" head with the softbox to give about a stop less (so your background is a stop over exposed).
Test a few with a practice subject (there's always someone around). Now reduce the output on both heads in sync so they'll recycle quickly to suit your purposes.

With the spill from the softbox you should get a nice pure white on the BG and decent soft modelling on the folks in the foreground.

Set up a nice (widish) fixed shot that party folk can easily walk into without hassle for them or you.

Easy as...

Top Tips:
put your BG head half way up your BG (back ground). Use a wide cone on it and tape a bit of cardboard on it if it flares.

Put your head light (soft one) a foot above the camera which should be just below eye height of your average subject (who will be about 5' 5").
Party pics are always more fun if people are looking DOWN and leaning INTO into the camera. (But you choose...)

Understand in advance that you will have one offs, two offs and groups so FIX your camera on a tripod (or anything) and move THEM into the shot - NOT the camera to accommodate them.

Only work for the first hour and keep a VERY close eye on your kit !

Best wishes
Monty
 
Lots of good advice on here. make sure you have enough time with the kit to practice. Have you thought about insurance?
 
Monty, that's incredible, thanks! The softbox seems like a good idea. I will print your post out for the occasion, definitely!

I'm actually leaning towards buying rather than renting though. Mostly because I just won a Metz 45 CT-4 on the 'Bay for £23 delivered... Perhaps I should use my Metz 48 flash to light the background and this more powerful 45 on the subject.

So now I need a softbox, something to hold the flashes and softbox (and triggers) up with, and a prevailing wind... Should I now enlist FITP's help for these things? I think the difficulty is likely to be the triggers, because they have a hot shoe on top and a cold shoe and threaded hole underneath, but no umbrella hole, and they're 4" high lumps of plastic...

Cheers!
 
Dave Stone said:
Lots of good advice on here. make sure you have enough time with the kit to practice. Have you thought about insurance?
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, I have a photographic insurance policy, so I should be ok. That's another advantage to buying over renting - I can practise...
 
silverJON said:
Monty, that's incredible, thanks! The softbox seems like a good idea. I will print your post out for the occasion, definitely!

I'm actually leaning towards buying rather than renting though. Mostly because I just won a Metz 45 CT-4 on the 'Bay for £23 delivered... Perhaps I should use my Metz 48 flash to light the background and this more powerful 45 on the subject.

So now I need a softbox, something to hold the flashes and softbox (and triggers) up with, and a prevailing wind... Should I now enlist FITP's help for these things? I think the difficulty is likely to be the triggers, because they have a hot shoe on top and a cold shoe and threaded hole underneath, but no umbrella hole, and they're 4" high lumps of plastic...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

NO - and NO again ! A metz is fine for close up press or pap work where all you need is "some light at any cost" but even a "mini" studio will need a lot more "bang" to light it decently. Leave the guns at home and get yourself (bought or rented) a couple of monoblock heads. (they come with stands and brollies, cables etc and each will slave [trigger] from the other).

Trust me, you just can't do it with a couple of metz's. If you're going to get into events or studio stuff on any level just get down to the Flash Centre and make some friends. Times are hard and they're eager for business ;) Also, they're decent chaps and they're happy to advise / teach / help on projects.

Also... Your MORE powerful light goes on the BG - this is what blows it out and overexposes it giving a pure white. The BG must be at least a stop over to achieve a nice clean white background. Get two decent flash heads a white sheet and do some practice. If you want to buy your kit search "Elinchrom kit" on eBay and DON'T be tempted by the cheap amateur stuff - (i.e. Bowens).

Check a few pictures on my site with white backgrounds (www.heagren.com)
Simple principle for a clean white = LOTS of light on the BG - and just enough on the subject.

Best wishes
Monty

PS - read it again - you CAN'T do it with guns. You NEED proper flash heads.
 
Bowens isn't 'cheap amateur stuff', it's hardly profoto but is perfectly adequate and reliable to be used day in, day out by many, many professionals, and is _certainly_ more than good enough for event work. (I do not own bowens, so don't think this is me blindly defending my purchases.)

It IS possible to get white seamless with speedlights (@ mini monty, to take it to an extreme, zack arias once lit full length white seamless with one bare bulb speedlight...), however it will make a lot of swear words come out of your mouth, even moreso if you are using fabric as opposed to vinyl or paper, and even moreso as you are shooting on location and with rushed deadlines.

You are best off NOT shooting this event with a white backdrop, but a plain wall or black backdrop (which, all lit carefully, can be done with one or two lights, one key and one rim to give a bit of background separation).
 
The gig is on the 3rd of June.

Here's the room:
party.JPG

I have the choice of nice ripply greeny blue curtains, or the white wall behind (it doesn't look white but it is). I'd actually love to use the curtains.

Whatever gives the best result, I don't know if studio flashes are even possible. I can't carry very much or drive it there. The other thing is, it's looking like there's not much money available any more. So if I can buy the stuff for myself, great, and if I buy, there's NO WAY I can afford proper studio equipment past a softbox or two... But I already have the guns.

I understand that I can't get white seamless with guns. But surely I can at least take some nice shots using a couple of guns and a dark-coloured background?

As I said earlier, the whole object of this exercise is about ambience, and having a guy there with a camera and some shiny-looking boxes and wires. The nice shots would be a bonus, and I don't expect magazine cover shots. Just some snaps.
 
ok. curtains, 1 light bounced into a big silver umbrella (calumet have a 1m one cheap iirc. If you're a student, get their student card and it gets you 20% off their own branded stuff). can probably even get away with the metz on its off camera bracket, pointed backwards. subjects 2ft away from the curtain. put a line of tape on the floor. umbrella another 2ft away from them.
 
You will be able to get white background shots with flashguns, it's just a bit harder. Personally though I join in with the advice of others - don't bother, just use whatever's there (e.g. the curtains or a white wall) simply because it needs less equipment, less skill and will look more natural anyway.
 
Those curtains will do the job nicely. I have a spare flash head and brolly you are only in Bedford, I live in Herts just the side of you, you are welcome to borrow it for the gig and return it after if you like.

PM me a number and I will give you a call.
 
Marac said:
Those curtains will do the job nicely. I have a spare flash head and brolly you are only in Bedford, I live in Herts just the side of you, you are welcome to borrow it for the gig and return it after if you like.

PM me a number and I will give you a call.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much - massively appreciated! I'm not quite sure what I need yet, but when I've decided, that might be fantastic and I'll pop you a PM.

itsdavedotnet said:
ok. curtains, 1 light bounced into a big silver umbrella (calumet have a 1m one cheap iirc. If you're a student, get their student card and it gets you 20% off their own branded stuff). can probably even get away with the metz on its off camera bracket, pointed backwards. subjects 2ft away from the curtain. put a line of tape on the floor. umbrella another 2ft away from them.
Click to expand...
So the Metz 45 into an umbrella and at the subjects, and that's it? I have a Metz 48 AF-1 which I may as well use... and the pop-up flash of course (which could make a nice catchlight, right?)
 
Ive got to do something similar soon,got some great advce on here...check out this thread........


Click
 
Thanks Steve, will have a good read.

My shopping list currently stands at:

24" softbox
Flash stand
Reflector
...all of which I can get from FITP.



The brick wall represents the bluey-greeny curtain.

Thoughts?
 
itsdavedotnet said:
You are best off NOT shooting this event with a white backdrop, but a plain wall or black backdrop (which, all lit carefully, can be done with one or two lights, one key and one rim to give a bit of background separation).
Click to expand...

I have to disagree.
1) a pure white is the easiest way to guarantee a half decent result in these circumstances.
20 odd at the back, 16 on the front with a metre square soft giving a nice wide butterfly. What could be simpler ?

2) key and rim is "lighting 101" for high street cheesy geezas and I was hoping to lead the OP away from such practices and toward some half decent technique. It's subjective of course but I just think a pure white has a bit more class. (and your classic "key and rim" needs three lights).

3) "black backdrop" - why would you light it at all ?

Best wishes
Monty
 
Hmm... my Metz 45 came and FITP said that it wouldn't easily fit one of his softboxes... so I guess shoot it into a reflective umbrella for a main light, and use my smaller Metz 48 flashgun to illuminate the background a bit, or even into another umbrella for a modelling light?
 
Slight change of direction. Apparently, there is no money available, so I'm going to have to charge for prints to pay for the kit.

If I'm charging, I really ought to (and can afford to) do this properly, with studio flash heads.

So I think it's time to go down to the Flash Centre, and ask them if it's all too heavy for me to carry...

Good news is, I've visited the venue, and the curtains are a deep bluey green with a marked shine, which could be lovely as a background. So I might set up two heads on the subjects and use one of my guns to just light up the area behind the subjects' heads to a couple of stops below the subject, just to give a nice bit of separation. Sound like a plan?
 
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