Charge for Plastic Bags

cambsno said:
That's because it's a cost setup by government = tax.
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Even if that's the case (I don't agree) then where is the massive problem? Will 5p harm you? Do you begrudge helping others? I don't get it. I really don't!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I think they should charge more than 5p to encourage people to re-use bags. I normally take 4 of the large re-usable bags for my weekly shop as things like bottles of real ale are not really secure in plastic bags. Some places that currently charge will still give you a very small bag for free, if you just have a couple of sandwiches, doughnuts, small bottle of drink etc
 
5p won't harm any of us. We can afford to sit on here with our expensive computers and have our expensive everything else. To some people it will be significant. It means having to buy bin liners or pay 25p for some carriers so they have to do without something else as a consequence.
 
Just go to Germany and buy a few cloth bags :)
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norters said:
Even if that's the case (I don't agree) then where is the massive problem? Will 5p harm you? Do you begrudge helping others? I don't get it. I really don't!!!!!!!!!!!
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It's the principle. If bags are that bad ban them. Simple. If tescos decided to charge it's up to them but why should government interfere?

It should also be up to me who I choose to help, not some pen pusher. If I want to give to charity I can choose who and how much.
 
cambsno said:
It's the principle. If bags are that bad ban them. Simple. If tescos decided to charge it's up to them but why should government interfere?

It should also be up to me who I choose to help, not some pen pusher. If I want to give to charity I can choose who and how much.
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Because the councils have to deal with litter/rubbish disposal ?
 
norters said:
Even if that's the case (I don't agree) then where is the massive problem? Will 5p harm you? Do you begrudge helping others? I don't get it. I really don't!!!!!!!!!!!
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You ALREADY pay for the bags.

Its an overhead thst the retailers pass on to the customers, as are staff wages, utilities, corporate taxes, local council business rarates etc etc. If you believe that Tescos et al are being altruistic with BOGOF and multibuy deals, then get real, the manufacturers underwrite those.

Helping others? In what arena? In what percentage of the gross amount raised? Like the charity ads on TV eh? Just £3 a month will feed... wil save a tiger donkey.....????

Yes that money will help AFTER all the advertising costs, staff costs, building costs etc

The same with the plastic bag tax too. Headline stuff and onto the next soundbite and "positive" headline.

This is minor in the scheme of things.

Does anyone here know when Nuclear generated energy became "Green Energy"? Well it was quietly sgifted into acceptability 10 years ago in the Energy White paper. Done easily by looking at the front end and not the residual outcome in waste and decommissioning. It's the "Emperors New Clothes" trick. As is this.

Simple answer - cease use immediately. 5p or £50 for aplastic bag really does not matter - it's all the political "self promotion" and "look at how we are saving the planet" nonsense that makes ne puke. If you want to save the planet do not consume anything and never have another child. 7.2 billion inhabitants and rising..... Don't waste food, do you need TVs in every room..... Plastic Bags????? trivia dressed up as a crusade. Just starting your car will eradicate the planetary value of your 1 less carrier bag.

It's a temporal tax which will prove of little holistic pecunary value to "charity" and zero envitonmental value. The source components will reappear elsewhere.

Steve
 
Haven't used a standard supermarket carrier bag for years.
Bags for life and canvas bags...the only way to go :thumbs:
(Sod the environment....just makes sense :lol: )
 
viv1969 said:
Haven't used a standard supermarket carrier bag for years.
Bags for life and canvas bags...the only way to go :thumbs:
(Sod the environment....just makes sense :lol: )
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Absolutely, I have used canvas bags for years . Never use plastic carriers.
 
cambsno said:
And we pay council tax that covers that.
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I suppose it covers the rubbish thrown out of the car in front of me earlier today a 500ml drinks bottle just dropped out of drivers window, along with ash tray contents and sweet wrappers.


The issue with carrier bags is PEOPLE in fact thats the biggest problem on this whole planet.

PEOPLE - who are by default SELFISH :thumbsdown:
 
srichards said:
The irony is that the normal carrier bag re-used a couple of times is actually more environmentally friendly than the bags for life as they have to be re-used so many more times over and don't always last long enough.
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We've been using bags for life now for a good few years. Started off buying four of them, the last one of that initial purchase finally gave out this year. I think it is safe to say they last a long time.

On average, we probably buy a couple of new ones each year and use six per weekly shop. We also have a couple of the sturdy wine carriers which gets used for bottles/jars/tins so the plastic ones hardly ever take too much weight.

It makes packing easier, unpacking easier, I honestly cannot understand why folk are so against the idea :shrug:
 
Our tesco just started a self scan thing where you get a handset and scan the shopping as you go. Straight into bag for life and you just pay & leave unless you get pulled up for a random check. It'll definitely encourage me to remember my bags whenever i'm going to the supermarket and not using delivery.
 
cambsno said:
That's helped by idiotic councils having anti car agendas and extortionate car parking prices
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It cost 20p an hour to park in a car park in my town the local traders still blame the council for the charge and driving away business :lol:

Steve
 
Anything that encourages people to use their own bags or to reuse ones they have from elsewhere is good.

However, I wonder how the this policy came about, perhaps David Cameron said,

"I say young Clegg, us chaps in the real Government, I mean my colleagues in the Conservative party, have been thinking that you Liberal chappies need to introduce a policy.

We thought something on the Green Agenda. So could you announce something about plastic bags in shops?

Us chaps will sort out the economy, the benefits system and Syria but if you fellows could deal with those bags that would be really good."

Dave
 
Julie1979 said:
Our tesco just started a self scan thing where you get a handset and scan the shopping as you go. Straight into bag for life and you just pay & leave unless you get pulled up for a random check. It'll definitely encourage me to remember my bags whenever i'm going to the supermarket and not using delivery.
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Our local Sainsbury did this about 20 years ago, worked well. Waitrose then followed suit but you needed a John Lewis charge card to use them. :suspect:
 
you can use the waitrose selfcheck with other cards now
 
I take two large lifetime bags but usually take one plastic as well as I use them to line a bucket under the sink. at 5p I will still do so.
 
steve_v said:
It cost 20p an hour to park in a car park in my town the local traders still blame the council for the charge and driving away business :lol:

Steve
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Well the main car park in Cambridge is £2.40 per hour which goes to £19.50 for more than 4 hours and £26 for more than 5 on Saturdays.

Road parking is 2 hours (sometimes 1) and is 50p for 10 mins.
 
It's all very well charging for bags if it works.
The supermakets and their partner companies need to be more green.

I worked for a partner company at a Saibsbury's and discovered there was no recycling going on at the branch I was at. Some skips were signed for cardboard and recyclable materials but all rubbish went in them.

Packaging is always an issue....And, at a Tesco, when I said I don't want the coat-hangers the girl at the till said that;s ashame as Tesco do not re-us them and they go in the landfill rubbish as they are a mix of plastic and metal and it therefore too exspensive to seperate them!

Bags is just something that they can pass the cost onto the customer, but there is a lot more stuff they can do.

BTW...The amount of bagged stuff you get on a home delivery (from Tesco) is mental. I could use a fraction of the bags..it's just crazy!!!
 
On the Huh said:
It's all very well charging for bags if it works.
The supermakets and their partner companies need to be more green.

I worked for a partner company at a Saibsbury's and discovered there was no recycling going on at the branch I was at. Some skips were signed for cardboard and recyclable materials but all rubbish went in them.

Packaging is always an issue....And, at a Tesco, when I said I don't want the coat-hangers the girl at the till said that;s ashame as Tesco do not re-us them and they go in the landfill rubbish as they are a mix of plastic and metal and it therefore too exspensive to seperate them!

Bags is just something that they can pass the cost onto the customer, but there is a lot more stuff they can do.

BTW...The amount of bagged stuff you get on a home delivery (from Tesco) is mental. I could use a fraction of the bags..it's just crazy!!!
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Describing Being Green where big companies are involved is much as you describe it.

As I have mentionred earlier big corporations have hijacked the green/sd agenda to appease NGOs and regulators whilst not damsging dividends to shareholdrrs (profits)

Contaminated recycling bins which get to recycling centres are rejected and moreover these days will not be collected. Much the same as domestic recycling collections.

Unless the UK reduces landfill and raises reuse, remanufacturing and recycling then the UK faces setious fines from the EC.

Who will pay those fines.... we all will one way or the other.

Carrier bags........ politics at its worst. But if it makes you feel all Gaia Cuddly carry on. The Chinese will carry on as they are as the world gave them a free pass on the environment especially in chemical use we are banned ftom using (like R21/22/23 refridgerants now banned across the world except in China where thry can carry on till 2020 to manufacture and use....)

http://www.wrap.org.uk/

S
 
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As far as I'm aware Aldi have always charged for bags. Doesn't stop them from being pretty popular does it? I think TK Maxx started charging but have recently stopped, I mean it's pretty inconvenient when you're buying larger cumbersome stuff such as clothes etc if you don't have a bag with you.

Going out to do the weekly shopping pre-armed with your bags is one thing, mooching around and spotting something to buy, only to be hijacked into paying an extra 5p for a bag is another.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Guys its just the principle
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Guys its just the environment ;)

5p is nether here nor there , the issue is that we should all use less packaging because our planet is not a dustbin. - the reason the government is having to take measures to force (some of) us to think more about these issues is that we've signally failed to do it voluntarily
 
big soft moose said:
Guys its just the environment ;)

5p is nether here nor there , the issue is that we should all use less packaging because our planet is not a dustbin. - the reason the government is having to take measures to force (some of) us to think more about these issues is that we've signally failed to do it voluntarily
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I have to admit I don't give these issues much of a second thought.
I use bags for life and canvas simply because they don't collapse at the thought of a 4 pint tub of milk.
 
I recall as a child my mother having to pay for bags and I am now over 50
so doesn't seem like a new concept to me
 
big soft moose said:
Guys its just the environment ;)

5p is nether here nor there , the issue is that we should all use less packaging because our planet is not a dustbin. - the reason the government is having to take measures to force (some of) us to think more about these issues is that we've signally failed to do it voluntarily
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Guys it just made of oil industry by product it will still get used
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Guys it just made of oil industry by product it will still get used
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yeah but maybe it will get used for something that doesn't go to landfill (or wind up in the sea or littering the environment generally) after a single use.
 
big soft moose said:
yeah but maybe it will get used for something that doesn't go to landfill (or wind up in the sea or littering the environment generally) after a single use.
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Then ban them and force supermarkets to supply a green alternative. Why is it the consumers fault? We use what we are given. Why not give free bags for life for a limited period to aid shoppers?oh yeah, the supermarkets make massive profits on them.

Surely there is a bag type that will be strong enough and recycle easily, but that involves hard work and standing up to the all conquering supermarkets.
 
ding76uk said:
Then ban them and force supermarkets to supply a green alternative. Why is it the consumers fault? We use what we are given. Why not give free bags for life for a limited period to aid shoppers?oh yeah, the supermarkets make massive profits on them.

Surely there is a bag type that will be strong enough and recycle easily, but that involves hard work and standing up to the all conquering supermarkets.
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I'd go with a ban - but lots of people would go mad about not having free choice.

as to using what you're given , how hard is it to pick up a rucksac , or a holdall etc when you're going shopping (like people did in the old days) - not wanting to be arsed is pure laziness , which is why its the consumers fault
 
big soft moose said:
yeah but maybe it will get used for something that doesn't go to landfill (or wind up in the sea or littering the environment generally) after a single use.
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Not likely

Most by product has alternative uses. Most a benign. The interesting one is within the drug industry. Many current drugs that are "time release" use oil by products. Some drugs only exist through the oil industry.

One interesting use of platics like drinks bottles is for clothing. Early days.

My real issue is not the charging system just alone. Its more that the bag issue is really a tiny blip in negative environmental themes and the powers that be are blinding the population with showpiece programmes that fail to do with real issues like population explosion food security and source impacts in far off countries with poor environmental/mining waste/chemical controls that have global impacts. The wide range of issues are important including platic bags but others are far more damaging.

I have worked on environmental issues for over 20 years and yes there are successes but these are wiped out by growing resource use. Its business as usual in most cases so good outcomes barely maintain the status quo.

Every programme helps to a point but the idea charity will benefit is truly spurious. As people reduce their use of bags (as in Wales) the cash return drops and becomes uneconomical. Or the bag use continues and the money rolls in and goes to charity. Say environmental charities, it still will not change the direct impact. Its a small hammer to crack a huge issue. The bags are more biodegradable these days but have no role to be used as rubbish bags. Many will still go to landfill many will be incinerated and will still negatively impact the natural environment.

I always believed we could make a real change in how we treated our world but it just ain't happening.

Coca Cola and selenium in India is a huge story on negative impact.

Now can someone tell me whether low energy light bulbs are a positive neutral or negative impact!

Steve
 
At a guess, they're less than good, especially as far as production and disposal. IIRC, they contain some mercury which isn't particularly pleasant stuff. They can't be as easy to produce as good old tungsten incandescents either. Yes, old fashioned bulbs do use more energy but since they're mainly used indoors when it's dark (and usually cool), the excess heat they chuck out won't be going to waste. Incandescents are also at their full brightness almost immediately, not an accusation that can be levelled at the fluorescents (although LEDs are better). Not sure how green LEDs are to produce either.
Much prefer the quality of incandescent lamps too! (Should point out that almost all the lights here are fluorescent, with incandescents where we need instant light [over stairs for example] or want dimmable lights.)
 
big soft moose said:
I'd go with a ban - but lots of people would go mad about not having free choice.

as to using what you're given , how hard is it to pick up a rucksac , or a holdall etc when you're going shopping (like people did in the old days) - not wanting to be arsed is pure laziness , which is why its the consumers fault
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No, I do moan about the so called green taxes we get as firstly they make no difference to the planet and secondly they dont address the main issues (over population, meat production). Anyway... going off topic there but I would be happy with a ban as supermarkets would then need to come up with an alternative.

Shopping is different for most people now than it used to be. These days with both adults often working (not always 9-5) we tend to do less shops but much bigger ones, it would need a bloody big holdall (or 4) to do a weeks shopping!
 
Nod said:
At a guess, they're less than good, especially as far as production and disposal. IIRC, they contain some mercury which isn't particularly pleasant stuff. They can't be as easy to produce as good old tungsten incandescents either. Yes, old fashioned bulbs do use more energy but since they're mainly used indoors when it's dark (and usually cool), the excess heat they chuck out won't be going to waste. Incandescents are also at their full brightness almost immediately, not an accusation that can be levelled at the fluorescents (although LEDs are better). Not sure how green LEDs are to produce either.
Much prefer the quality of incandescent lamps too! (Should point out that almost all the lights here are fluorescent, with incandescents where we need instant light [over stairs for example] or want dimmable lights.)
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Yes and no

The main negative is the amount of product components and cost of disposal.

So the positive is they use less energy in use (80-90%)

The rest is negative.

The higher cost of purchase (the very cheap bulbs that appeared a couple of years back were underwritten by the energy companies as part of a government requirement. Now its subsidised insulation).

Those costs of bulb reduce the return on investment.

CFL GU10 spotlights are improving but the iriginal 7w units were very yelow now moved to a whiter light at 9/11/13 watts. Cost up to 12 x Halogen 50W units so savings are offset for longer period against cost of purchase /running costs

Failure rate of cheaper imported brands higher than expected

Disposal is costly so many go to domestic waste. So resource hungry in raw materials. To properly/legally dispose of a fluorescent tube can be more than initial purchase price. Returns Mercury and other metals. Glass tube ground up for roadfill and phosphorous recovered.

A large scale hotel group has been testing for 2 years and little commercial benefit seen in a 24 lit reception area test.

Some LED units at 7 watts to produce an equivalent 50w downlight have cost £38 bulk (cree units). Rated at 50,000 hours have failed at <250 Hours. No replacement once used.

So I am sitting on the middle ground until trial finishes in March.

For the home user I am betting similar failures have occurred in the home.

We are still at the price against reduction in cost issue

Lower wattage offset by unremitting rise in unit cost of power.

As said Plastic bags are the very tip of the icebberg.

Steve
 
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