Carl Zeiss Jena Lenses

Janet S

Janet S

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Hello guys,

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but I HAVE to ask!

My friend has just discovered an old (but pristine) Zenit EM camera in the loft, along with a selection of Carl Zeiss Jena lenses. They have been stored in clean, dry conditions and appear to be in superb condition, although I haven't actually seen them myself as yet.

Is there any sort of adaptor that would allow me to use them on my Olympus e520? Also, do you think the flash would be of any use to me? I don't want him selling them at a car boot sale if I can use them!

Not a very good picture, but here's the photo he sent.

4315743556_e23c44ce34_o.jpg


Thanks for looking.

Janet
 
They're terrible lenses - send them to me for proper disposal :D

ahem.

Actually, Carl Zeiss Jena lenses are lovely - I have a 135mm and its superb, extremely sharp and a joy to use. I don't know for sure if there is an adapter for the olympus or not, but you will have no problem shifting them, especially on Ebay. Whatever you do, don't let them go to the car boot sale!

I think those will be M42 screw fit, just google M42 to Olympus and you should get something :thumbs:

Ste
 
Thanks for that Ste...

Now I know what I'm looking for, I'll go and have a search.

I'm not sure what the lenses are yet, but I'll try and get some more info out of him this afternoon.

Woo hoo! I may have some new lenses to play with!

Janet
 
If you call SRB, they were very helpfull with my father-in-law re the adapter he needed (and how to change the settings of the camera) for his old 300mm Prime Leica lens and his Minolta DSLR body.

Enjoy :thumbs:
 
Cheers Andy.

I've just Googled SRB and given them a ring. I'll have to call back on Monday though as the guy I spoke to couldn't help. He was reassuringly friendly though!

Apparently there's a guy who only works Thursday and Friday who is a real whizz with cameras/lenses, so he's the one I really need to speak to.

From the Googling I've done so far (it's a bit difficult without knowing exactly what lenses they are!) it seems that they may well be rather nice lenses!

Thanks for the tip. I'd much rather spend a bit more and buy from someone I can actually speak to than risk something off e-Bay, particularly when I'm not very technically minded!

Janet
 
:agree: abosolutely, the gentleman my father-in-law spoke to (poss the one thats in Thursday / Friday) was very very helpfull and knew exactly what was needed and how to set the camera up for him.

Hope you get it sorted :thumbs:
 
A bit more information on the lenses...unfortunately my friend knows even less about photography than I do, so these descriptions may not be too good!

This is what he's given me after looking at the lenses - just what's written on the front.

Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1-2 f=4.5cm 3209260

Prinzflex MC zoom 1-3.5 f70-162 800551

Zodel 1-3.5 f=135m 670092

I presume the long numbers are serial numbers?

I think I've managed to identify the Prinzflex on Google, but I'm stumped with the others!

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Janet

PS. Just to clarify, this isn't a "how much is my stuff worth" thread. I'm hoping to be able to use these lenses with my Olly, and am just trying to find out if it's worth the effort!
 
Janet S said:
This is what he's given me after looking at the lenses - just what's written on the front.

Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1-2 f=4.5cm 3209260

Prinzflex MC zoom 1-3.5 f70-162 800551

Zodel 1-3.5 f=135m 670092

I presume the long numbers are serial numbers?

I think I've managed to identify the Prinzflex on Google, but I'm stumped with the others!

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Janet

PS. Just to clarify, this isn't a "how much is my stuff worth" thread. I'm hoping to be able to use these lenses with my Olly, and am just trying to find out if it's worth the effort!
Click to expand...

The Sonnar sounds very interesting and possibly rare. I've never heard of a 45mm version? Most are telephotos? Does the 1-2 not read 1:2 meaning it's f/2 which is wide for a Sonnar? CZ did make 50mm f/1.5 and f/2's for the Contax and Pentax made a Takumar 58mm f/2 Sonnar design lens in the late 1950's. Your lens very rare and valuable (£100+).

It would be an interesting lens to try, Sonnar telephotos have a certain quality partly due to a big chunk of glass in the design. The shorter Sonnar lenses mustn't have been much good on film, because no one continued making them, but a lot of lenses that didn't work on film work OK on digital.

Zodel lenses were a cheap range sold by a Photographic Dealer called Wallace Heaton in the 60's - 70's comparable to Hanimex so don't expect much. Probably cost £25 on the early 70's worth maybe £5-£10 now.

Prinzflex were Dixons and again real budget stuff.

I've bought adapters from China on ebay and they are quite good and cheap SRB are quite expensive on some stuff. I would certainly buy an adapter for the Sonnar and post some examples somewhere for us all to see what the IQ's like.

I wouldn't use the flash.... probably high voltage.

shimbo
 
The Sonnar sounds very interesting and possibly rare. I've never heard of a 45mm version? Most are telephotos? Does the 1-2 not read 1:2 meaning it's f/2 which is wide for a Sonnar? Pentax did actually make a Takumar 58mm f/2 Sonnar design lens in the late 1950's which is accepted as being the shortest focal length Sonnar design ever made, so that would make your lens very rare and valuable (£100+).
Click to expand...

It could well read 1:2, however I won't know until I see it for myself in about two weeks...I can't wait! My friend knows nothing about photography, and wasn't in a very good mood this morning after dental treatment so I'll just have to wait until I get over there to check it out.

It would be nice to think that we have something rare and valuable. Whatever, now that I've found that I can use these lenses on my camera, they will not be ending up on e-Bay. Rather, they'll be carrying on a family tradition...

Janet
 
Made in east Germany, similar to Pentacon lens. All designed and made before computerisation. Quite good ***` I remember buying a Pentacon camera with 50mm F1.8 new with case, £50 they cost. The auto on the lens was a bit off ***`. Still got it.
 
Have a look at this page re: the Contax 50mm Sonnars they are supposed to be very good, but these are West German rather than East. I can't see any reference to a 45mm lens anywhere and if it's the silver coloured lens it looks about right as do the DOF markings. I'm quite sure you have a valuable lens there regardless of focal length:clap:

shimbo
 
You lucky b****r!!! Why don't i have friends like that!! :D
 
Sonnar is a particular design of Zeiss; and many focal length lens have been made on the sonnar design

40mm sonnars have been available on Rollei 35; 50mm on contax RF and 85 and 135 on the C/Y SLR. There are many other Sonnar design lens

50/1.5 on Contax RF is absolutely fantastic, one of my favourite lens. Its reputed that its the one lens which has better results that its slower 50/f2 counterpart.....

Re : Shimbo's comment on Sonnar designs not being good - actually they are woinderful - small, fast, contrasty and sharp. The reason they were not used in its shorter focal length version in the SLRs was because the lens design did not clear the mirror in the SLR. Lens design for SLR were always a compromise on design; and short focal length Sonnars did not fit the bill. On a RF though, give me a 6 element 3 group Sonnar any day over a Tessar...
 
Carl Zeiss was split in two after WWII. The West German half continued the fine traditions of Zeiss; the East German half - CZ Jena - did not. They are best known as manufacturers of Praktica cameras, which were better than the Russian Zeniths, but not much.

I'm sure you can get these lenses to fit and function after a fashion, but only strictly manually. Optically they are nothing special at all, very poor compared to modern equivalents and not valuable, but they should still produce passable images.

Sorry :(
 
You are right hoppy; though the company before the war also produced lens called Carl Zeiss Jena.

And the 135 mm CZJ is a great lens; as good as any modern ones. And manual focus isn't really after a fashion; its allows creativity rather than mechanisation..:)
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Re : Shimbo's comment on Sonnar designs not being good - actually they are woinderful - small, fast, contrasty and sharp. The reason they were not used in its shorter focal length version in the SLRs was because the lens design did not clear the mirror in the SLR. Lens design for SLR were always a compromise on design; and short focal length Sonnars did not fit the bill. On a RF though, give me a 6 element 3 group Sonnar any day over a Tessar...
Click to expand...

It seems only Pentax ever made a Standard Lens for an SLR using the Sonnar design (Takumar 58mm f/2 circa 1957) As you say 58mm might be the smallest focal length possible on a 35mm SLR, so this lens can't be a 45mm? possibly 85mm or a fake? The way it's written f=4.5cm is exactly the way West German Zeiss wrote focal lengths. I think East Germany used f=135 etc. Because it also states Jena it could be pre-war, but it has a 42mm thread? I think Janet will just have to wait and see what it is.

This site states that (Takumar 58mm f/2) "Not many have been made; it lost the battle with the newer 55mm double-Gauss designs (which could be made faster than f/2 without undesirable side-effects). " Some nice shots though (especially the one of the guitar) and a very interesting lens.

shimbo
 
A 1937 5cm Sonnar on ebay link note the format of the lens details is exactly the same as Janet supplied?

shimbo
 
Thanks for all the information guys! Much appreciated!

The details on the lenses are exactly as he read them out to me over the phone...except, I boobed with the CZ one!

It should read Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1-2 f=8.5cm 3209260

Sorry for the confusion! :bonk:

Janet
 
Family tradition dictates you shoot them with the Zenit.
Click to expand...
.

Oh, I have every intention of using the Zenit! I've just spent this weekend out of my comfort zone, using only manual on my camera. Scary stuff for a newbie, but I have to learn to get the best out of it!

By the time I get my hands on it, I should at least have a clue what I'm doing...

Janet
 
If the CJ is the the 85mm F2 Sonnar lens, its rare indeed only 100 were made for Exactor cameras:)

(Googled it)
 
Janet S said:
Thanks for all the information guys! Much appreciated!

The details on the lenses are exactly as he read them out to me over the phone...except, I boobed with the CZ one!

It should read Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1-2 f=8.5cm 3209260

Sorry for the confusion! :bonk:

Janet
Click to expand...

CZJ =Carl Zeiss, Jena Postwar. 1945-1949 3.0-3.2 million. Initially these were calibrated with the focal length in centimeters. 1949-1952 3.2-3.47 million 1952-1955 347,000-4.0 million From here focal lengths were given in millimeters.

So it's 1945 to 1952? made in East Germany probably worth £200-£300 OR MORE :thumbs:

shimbo
 
I've just spoken to my friend, and got a bit more information.

The cover for the lens mount says Contax, although it's with a Zenit camera. Of course, this may or may not be original? There's also a much worn sticky label on the lens, so he's going off to try and decipher it.

His mother says that his father acquired the lens whilst they were living in Germany in the 1950's. There is also a distinct possibility that it may have belonged to his grandfather before him, but he can't remember what type of camera he used.

Needless to say, I've harangued him a bit, and told him to get me some decent photographs!

Whatever, it seems like it may be worth a bit more than the £10 job lot he was thinking of selling at the car boot sale?

Janet
 
Janet, it makes more sense that it's a Contax fitting. These were pre-war lenses for the Contax. Later manufactured in Russia with an M42 thread and sold with the name Jupiter-9 (mainly black in M42). There's a strong possibility that this is a fake it looks aluminium on the photo I would have expected chromed brass.It looks like the second picture down on the right here
I'm not sure if the fakes would have been around in the 50's though?

Jupiter-9's are still basically the same lens and give very good results. So as your not selling it I wouldn't bother too much, just be careful if you do ever sell it though.

The Jupiters were made on the same machines as the Sonnars, the Russians moved them to Russia :nono:

shimbo
 
shimbo said:
There's a strong possibility that this is a fake it looks aluminium on the photo I would have expected chromed brass.It looks like the second picture down on the right here
I'm not sure if the fakes would have been around in the 50's though?

shimbo
Click to expand...

Gets more confusing :bonk: They were alloy during the war :shrug:

That could make it even more valuable?

You might have to check if an adapter is available from Contax rangefinder to Olympus?

shimbo
 
This is getting curiouser and curioser.

Janet : can you please find out when in the 50s? Is it the early part or latter part.

If its early part, it can turn out to be a very interesting lens. Even if its a 'fake'. In those early days ( Contax in West germany started production again only in 1950) the disctinction between west german, east german and russian contax was a bit blurred. And the ruskies often retrofitted german made contax to all sorts of mount, especially M42. (Afterall, the ruskies owned the intellectual right to all contax design as a reparition cost of the war. )And all of them are often collectors delight.

On its own, the Sonnar 85 f/2 is a fantastic lens in all its versions ( Jupiter, Contax mount, L39 mount - all of them are great. I have a Jupiter on L39 mount, and I paid 70£. For a Contax, its easily 150-250 £.)

It will be interesting to see a few good photographs and the serial number of the lens.
 
According to the serial number you gave; this lens was made in 1949 by East German Jena. So far so good; but how come a M42 mount on a contax lens - which is marked Jena and no Contax RF in sight.

This is where it becomes interesting. In the Leipzig fair in 1949, Jena unveiled their first SLR camera called Contax S. 'S' had a horizontal cloth plane shutter, and most interestingly, M42 mount.

So I will guess that this is a M42 mount Sonnar design lens for the Contax S.

In 1952, Jena introduced an improved version of S called 'D@

A few nice photographs will really be fantastic....
 
I think I've solved it :clap: The lens is genuine and the SN fits in OK with the years I gave above.

After the war, the Eastern part of Carl Zeiss continued to produce lenses for the Contax, in alloy versions:

* Sonnar 85mm f:2
* Triotar 85mm f:4
* Sonnar 135mm f:4

See camerapedia.org for the full list they produced.

So it's probably worth £200 to £300 A 1937 chrome one went on ebay for £231
link

shimbo
 
But shimbo, you are talking about a contax Rf mount lens. I thought the lens is M42 mount.

If its RF mount, its obviously what you say; 1949 made alloy version for existing Contax II/III.

Edit : BTW I checked the sonnar listing on ebay that you referred to. Very interesting that its coated; either its one of the rare early coated lens ( CZ was experimenting with coating around that time; or was send back later for a coating, possible as a war effort ( its known to have happened, especially with Leica lens during the war). That makes that lens pretty rare
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
According to the serial number you gave; this lens was made in 1949 by East German Jena. So far so good; but how come a M42 mount on a contax lens - which is marked Jena and no Contax RF in sight.

This is where it becomes interesting. In the Leipzig fair in 1949, Jena unveiled their first SLR camera called Contax S. 'S' had a horizontal cloth plane shutter, and most interestingly, M42 mount.

So I will guess that this is a M42 mount Sonnar design lens for the Contax S.

In 1952, Jena introduced an improved version of S called 'D@

A few nice photographs will really be fantastic....
Click to expand...

The SLR would have almost certainly used mm not cm's for the focal length also according to wikipedia.org only the following lenses were produced for the SLR

See paragraph "Lenses for the Dresden-built SLR Models"

The following is a list of lenses made by Carl Zeiss:

* Tessar 40/4.5
* Tessar 50/3.5
* Biotar 58/2
* Biotar 75/1.5
* Triotar 135/4
* Sonnar 180/2.8
* Sonnar 300/4
* Fernobjektiv 500/8

So no 85mm f/2 :thumbsdown:

shimbo
 
Upto 1949 CZJ marked all lens in cm. mm was introduced in 1950. Since S was introduced in 1949, the early S lens would be marked in cm, not mm.

Such lens would have been produced for only 1 year though, making them ultra rare and collectors dream...

I saw that list; but as you know, these lists are never exhaustive; and there were many lens made which were produced in short runs and then abandoned. Such lens usually dont make it to these lists. BTW, there certainly was a 135mm sonnar for the Contax SLR. I have seen one. So clearly the list is not exhaustive

I am wondering if this turns out to be one of those ultra rare lens, that was stopped with the Contax S production for some reason.

Can the OP please clarify what mount this lens is ( i.e does it have a screw in the end or a bayonet)


Edit :
This site lists about 40 lens of m42 type for Contax SLR. And admits even thats not exhaustive. That said, no 85 sonnar is listed....

http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/42mm_screw_lenses#Carl_Zeiss_Jena
 
Ujjwal, Janet did say :

"The cover for the lens mount says Contax, although it's with a Zenit camera. Of course, this may or may not be original? There's also a much worn sticky label on the lens, so he's going off to try and decipher it."

I'm assuming that because of the Contax cap it's for the rangefinder, but why would he keep it with the Zenit camera?

Janet it might be better to get your friend to look if the lens fitting is the same as the other two i.e. 42mm diam. screw thread. If it's a bayonet fitting it's for the Contax Rangefinder. If it is a screw and looks like the same size try it on the camera and see if it will focus?

shimbo
 
Ah Shimbo, she said it says contax. Even the Contax S lens will say Contax, especially in 1949. The legal dispute regarding the ownership of the Contax/ Zeiss name was settled much later - 52 I believe.

Since it is with a Zenit camera; and no Contax RF in sight, I made the working assumption that its a M42 mount Contax lens. If so, certainly its a rare lens.

If not, its still a very valuable lens; but by no means, rare.

P.S : Just realised, this whole post has nothing to do with photography......:lol:
 
Woah! I'm getting brain dead with all this information!

I assumed it was M42 mount, as all the others were and I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be the same, as it was packed in the bag with the others...please remember that I haven't seen this thing yet...I will report back when I actually get my mitts on it.

Meanwhile, here are a few new pics sent tonight....

S5033320.jpg


S5033321.jpg


S5033327.jpg


S5033334.jpg


Janet
 
Here's some photos of a lens with a SN only 74 earlier - NO:3209184 - 1948/9 halfway down the page. Looks an absolute cracker :lol:

This has a clip which unfortunately would be at the back of Janet's photo, so it's still hard to identify :(

shimbo
 
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