Careful when giving advice to beginners

Scarecrow

Scarecrow

Suspended / Banned
Messages
1,662
Name
Derek
Edit My Images
Yes
I applaud the thoughts behind this new forum, and think it's a great place to keep things together that we can all learn from.

However, although there are only a handful of threads on here at the moment, I have already found two where the advice being given in response to a question is actually incorrect.

Given that this forum is aimed towards newcomers who will probably accept most answers as gospel, I think anyone replying to a question owes a duty of care to ensure that the information they are giving is actually correct.
 
Scarecrow said:
I applaud the thoughts behind this new forum, and think it's a great place to keep things together that we can all learn from.

However, although there are only a handful of threads on here at the moment, I have already found two where the advice being given in response to a question is actually incorrect.

Given that this forum is aimed towards newcomers who will probably accept most answers as gospel, I think anyone replying to a question owes a duty of care to ensure that the information they are giving is actually correct.
Click to expand...

that'd be an internet forum then?. The point of answering in public is so others can see, and correct or add an opinion.
 
Thats how I see it boyfalldown, I found that following most threads comments are added, corrected and openly discussed.
 
Noway of ensuring information given is correct.
If you sought advice like that you should be receiving professional training.
A good way of learning I find, is trying to help others out when required, and sometimes your suggestion is not always the most effective way possible, and when this is then pointed out by someone with more experience, it is then a learning curve for both the OP and myself.

Just the way I see an open public internet forum anyway.
 
TBH, I dont want to be a kill joy but I think this new forum is pointless. We have tutorials after all. How many times should we keep explaining aperture, shutter speed and ISO? The basic rules of photography (also science) will never change, why do we need a forum to discuss them over and over again?

Just read the tutorials, at least you know they are correct!
 
Scarecrow said:
I applaud the thoughts behind this new forum, and think it's a great place to keep things together that we can all learn from.

However, although there are only a handful of threads on here at the moment, I have already found two where the advice being given in response to a question is actually incorrect.

Given that this forum is aimed towards newcomers who will probably accept most answers as gospel, I think anyone replying to a question owes a duty of care to ensure that the information they are giving is actually correct.
Click to expand...
Ya what ones?
If you know the answers have you given you reply?
 
CSB said:
TBH, I dont want to be a kill joy but I think this new forum is pointless. We have tutorials after all. How many times should we keep explaining aperture, shutter speed and ISO? The basic rules of photography (also science) will never change, why do we need a forum to discuss them over and over again?

Just read the tutorials, at least you know they are correct!
Click to expand...

There's more to it than simply getting the answers to the same old questions, a forum for those new to the hobby lets them ask, learn and get involved in the forum without feeling intimidated.

Is it really such a big thing to give a quick run through of the basics to someone every now and again?
 
One of the ones he's talking about was mine and yes, I hold my hands up, I misworded it but I don't think it's that big an issue as that is the whole point of the forum, to discuss. I don't think people will take answers as gospel, they will go away and try it out and if it doesn't work they will come back and ask more questions. It's all part of the learning process.
 
I agree with you Flash, no harm in having a place where complete newbies can ask basic questions and if the same questions keep getting asked and others don't mind answering them what's the problem there. You don't have to visit this section but there are many on this forum who will and will answer these basic questions simply and often if necessary.

Andy
 
Flash In The Pan said:
There's more to it than simply getting the answers to the same old questions, a forum for those new to the hobby lets them ask, learn and get involved in the forum without feeling intimidated.

Is it really such a big thing to give a quick run through of the basics to someone every now and again?
Click to expand...

No not at all and I see your point. However, I'm feeling quite grumpy today and I still think its just as easy for any newbie to go to the tutorials section and read through the basics. Its not rocket science after all. By the end of this year this forum will be full of topics that are all the same ie, "can someone explain aperture?", "can someone explain ISO" etc...

I'm not knocking the newbies, I had to learn as well, but I did it by reading through tutorials and trial & error. Why should we keep repeating ourselves?
 
CSB said:
No not at all and I see your point. However, I'm feeling quite grumpy today and I still think its just as easy for any newbie to go to the tutorials section and read through the basics. Its not rocket science after all. By the end of this year this forum will be full of topics that are all the same ie, "can someone explain aperture?", "can someone explain ISO" etc...

I'm not knocking the newbies, I had to learn as well, but I did it by reading through tutorials and trial & error. Why should we keep repeating ourselves?
Click to expand...

You don't have to keep repeating yourself, the forum is voluntary. ;)
 
I'm curious how one determines how basic a question is before it goes in here. I'm sure we've all asked questions we thought weren't trivial at the time.
 
Apart from everything else that has been said about getting answers to your questions, a personal reply is MUCH more appreciated by everyone, newcomers in particular!!
 
CSB said:
No not at all and I see your point. However, I'm feeling quite grumpy today and I still think its just as easy for any newbie to go to the tutorials section and read through the basics. Its not rocket science after all. By the end of this year this forum will be full of topics that are all the same ie, "can someone explain aperture?", "can someone explain ISO" etc...

I'm not knocking the newbies, I had to learn as well, but I did it by reading through tutorials and trial & error. Why should we keep repeating ourselves?
Click to expand...

Sometimes people don't realise there are tutorials or maybe the questions have been answered elsewhere already. There's nothing wrong with the same questions being asked/answered time and time again. Now go sit in the grumpy corner with a bottle of whiskey until you cheer up :naughty:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
There's more to it than simply getting the answers to the same old questions, a forum for those new to the hobby lets them ask, learn and get involved in the forum without feeling intimidated.

Is it really such a big thing to give a quick run through of the basics to someone every now and again?
Click to expand...
:agree:

sometimes the replies just get phrased slightly differently which suddenly makes it click. If you don;t want to answer of course you can just skip the post.

The other thing it allows if for people who have gained more experience to then share the information they have learned with newcomers, and feel that they are contributing to the forum.

That is what I think actually makes this forum so good.
 
CSB said:
No not at all and I see your point. However, I'm feeling quite grumpy today and I still think its just as easy for any newbie to go to the tutorials section and read through the basics. Its not rocket science after all. By the end of this year this forum will be full of topics that are all the same ie, "can someone explain aperture?", "can someone explain ISO" etc...

I'm not knocking the newbies, I had to learn as well, but I did it by reading through tutorials and trial & error. Why should we keep repeating ourselves?
Click to expand...


Ahh, it's okay, I'd be grumpy too if I owned a Canon :naughty: :lol: :exit:
 
As a "newbie" to photography and this forum i have to admit this section is a good idea.
However i do understand from being on other forums (not photography related) that the newbie questions get asked over and over and yes it can be a pain to repeat your self.
Saying that if someone wants to ask a question about ISO shutter speed etc then they can always search this section. Ive looked through the tutorials and i didnt find them "newbie" friendly tbh.
 
CSB said:
No not at all and I see your point. However, I'm feeling quite grumpy today and I still think its just as easy for any newbie to go to the tutorials section and read through the basics. Its not rocket science after all. By the end of this year this forum will be full of topics that are all the same ie, "can someone explain aperture?", "can someone explain ISO" etc...

I'm not knocking the newbies, I had to learn as well, but I did it by reading through tutorials and trial & error. Why should we keep repeating ourselves?
Click to expand...

Thing is you dont have to repeat yourself.
On a forum this size, you are always going to have people who are new, possibly not alot of forum experience, who wont use search, and might not find their way into the tutorial section.
If they do decide to post, nobody is forcing you to reply, just ignore it and move on if thats how you feel. Im sure there will be at least 50 people who would be willing to offer 10secs of their day to reply.
 
I think what is missing from this particular debate is the value of repeated quesions to the newbies themselves.

The best way to know if you are making progress with your knowledge of photography is when someone asks a question and you feel confident to give an answer. 6 months ago you might have sat back and waited for someone else to answer. Now you feel you can do it so you become the teacher. Now if you haven't got it quite right someone more experienced is going to jump in and correct you. Either way you are learning from other people asking questions.

If every newbie went stright to the tutorials then the interaction and building of self confidence would be reduced.

And finally - if you see a question thats already been asked before and you are bored with it - move on. There's no need to post unhelpful messages along the lines of 'look at the tutorials thats what they are for' or 'should you really be operating a camera if yo dont already knwo that', or 'read the manual'
 
if the same questions are being asked that can only mean one thing ........more new members :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: oh and by the way unless its a glareingly obvious mistake like buy canon when we all know it should be NIKON then no harm done :D
 
CSB said:
TBH, I dont want to be a kill joy but I think this new forum is pointless. We have tutorials after all. How many times should we keep explaining aperture, shutter speed and ISO? The basic rules of photography (also science) will never change, why do we need a forum to discuss them over and over again?

Just read the tutorials, at least you know they are correct!
Click to expand...


Im a newbie in learning and I find this forum great. I have a problem with tutorials as I find them boring, read through the 1st line and done. But here its more varied and by far less boring plus can ask questions which I dont usually see in tutorials.
 
You may find tutorials boring, but there is no real substititute for working at learning any skill, be it computer programming or photography. Many of us 'olduns' learnt about photography before computers or forums were even a twinkle in Tim Berners Lee's eye. :)
 
I always found the best way to learn was to get on and try something on your own. When you get to a point where you are stuck then is the time to ask a question before you move on.

No everyone works best that way but the forums should work for everyone.
 
reading this I as a newbie to photography would be too scared to ask a question as it may get peoples backs up as being asked to often or itjust being a stupid question
I cant read tutorials i need things said in a simple way (yes I am very simple lol)
 
i totally see where the op is coming from, and yes theres nothing worse than incorrect info, but it does start the internet forum 'food chain'

Noobs ask simple questions, not so noobs get a chance to post reply's, and experienced/senior members can step in to correct if needed.

i've seen internet forums where 'use the search' is a standard answer and the first page is stickies and to be honest it turns forums stagnent.

i'de have the former any day.

for the record in my short time on this forum, i have not once seen a reply 'use the search' which is pretty rare, and helps with the friendlyness.

Al
 
I for one approve of this forum completely.

It's fine saying read tutorials, look stuff up on the net. It's fine to have issues with constantly answering the same questions over and over again. If people think that then the solution is simple - leave this forum for the people who want to help new folk and who don't mind answering the same question repeatedly. Participation is not mandatory and if you don't like a section don't click on it.

The sheet volume of information in forums and on the wider internet simply is too much for some folk to wade through to find what could be a very simple answer. Even if that isn't the case we are all wired differently and some people may just need a different approach to getting the answer to their question.

Good work to those that suggested it and thumbs up to the staff who implemented it.
 
By definition in a talk basics forum there is no such thing as a too basic question. If you don't know ... ask.
 
RichardtheSane said:
I for one approve of this forum completely.

It's fine saying read tutorials, look stuff up on the net. It's fine to have issues with constantly answering the same questions over and over again. If people think that then the solution is simple - leave this forum for the people who want to help new folk and who don't mind answering the same question repeatedly. Participation is not mandatory and if you don't like a section don't click on it.

The sheet volume of information in forums and on the wider internet simply is too much for some folk to wade through to find what could be a very simple answer. Even if that isn't the case we are all wired differently and some people may just need a different approach to getting the answer to their question.

Good work to those that suggested it and thumbs up to the staff who implemented it.
Click to expand...

:agree:

I find that reading large blocks of text on a monitor (typically what you might find associated with tutorials) often results in a splitting headache for me as words start to cross over, merge and generally misbehave. It's one of the reasons I tend to avoid tutorials, instead I try and figure out what I'm doing wrong by trial and error, then if I can't figure it out I'll ask a question. It may be a very basic question, but it has an answer I just can't see without help.

I greatly appreciate anyone that takes the time to comment on anything I post, whether it's to offer praise, tell me what I'm doing wrong, what they don't like, what I should try or anything else. As long as it's constructive it will encourage me to learn more and then perhaps, I can help someone else.
 
Maybe profiles should have an additionl flag to indicate that a member is more than happy to answer basic questions if people want to send a private message through fear of being shot down in the open forum.
 
Can I point out that it is not so long ago that I signed up here and I can still remember what I signed up to. One thing that springs to mind while reading this thread was along the lines of no jumping on newbies asking the same old questions and telling them to read the faq/tutorials/whatever.

If you don't like newbie questions, surely it's a simple matter to keep out of the thread that says, for example, "How does this dof stuff work" or whatever?


Arthur
 
Ambermile said:
Can I point out that it is not so long ago that I signed up here and I can still remember what I signed up to. One thing that springs to mind while reading this thread was along the lines of no jumping on newbies asking the same old questions and telling them to read the faq/tutorials/whatever.

If you don't like newbie questions, surely it's a simple matter to keep out of the thread that says, for example, "How does this dof stuff work" or whatever?


Arthur
Click to expand...


Well said Arthur :thumbs: I really can't understand why anyone would reply to a question by telling them to ask it elsewhere :cuckoo: Why bother replying at all?
 
AndyB said:
Maybe profiles should have an additionl flag to indicate that a member is more than happy to answer basic questions if people want to send a private message through fear of being shot down in the open forum.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that is the right approach is in the spirit of forums...

We could always create forum for the basic questions where there is no fear of being shot down for asking one

Oh wait... ;)
 
I have a problem with tutorials as I find them boring,
Click to expand...

You need to consider how serious you are about learning then, expecting forum members to 'spoonfeed' you will result in no compounded learning taking place and I suspect a few hacked of forum members.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top