Car Woes***more news***

wisemen

wisemen

Suspended / Banned
Messages
1,131
Name
Nick
Edit My Images
Yes
Right all, I'm after a bit of advice.

I changed cars on the 1st May and collected a 56 plate 307 cc with 36000 miles on the clock. On the 20th May it had to go back to the garage as it was ticking over roughly and wouldn't rev, ie undriveable. I had a good moan to the garage about it and they assured me it was fixed. They had sent it to a peugeot dealer to be fixed as they could find no fault.

Driving home from work this evening, long straight road, at about 50mph, engine management warning lights come on and massive reduction in power. Fortunately only 2 miles from home so got home and called garage. Moaned at them about this is not on etc. Told I have to get RAC out to have a look and if its needs, get it recovered to the garage. Currently waiting for them to arrive.

What I need to know is what are my options? This was bought from a Nissan / Renault main dealer, only 5 weeks ago, deposit paid, balance on the Nissan finance over 3 years. They are a big local privately owned dealer and I have had a car off them in the past which was trouble free. I have now no confidence what so ever in this car, I need it to be reliable for family and work. Am pretty fed up to say the least. Where do I stand?

Sorry for the rant, but any advice here greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
A used car trader I know told me the following
Arthur Daley said:
A warranty is a legal requirement for anything sold over £1,000 by a bona fide trader 3 months is typical but there's an unofficial duty of care for 6 months
Click to expand...

( I changed his name, obviously :p )

I don't know engine management, I only know carbs and points, but it sounds like sensor failure putting the engine management into "limp home" more to prevent engine damage. Might only be a cheap part that takes a few minutes to replace. IMO considering how little time you've had it they should collect the car and provide you with a courtesy car without asking any questions, simple customer service.
 
You are entitled to ask for a full refund if the dealer does not put this right, A friend of mine bought an Audi A6 had it 4 weeks and brake warning lights came on, she took it back and said the brakes were fine as it had an mot when she bought it. So they bypassed the warning light, luckily she wasnt satisfied and through a motorbike friend of mine got the brakes inspected. They were worn down to next to nothing. She threatend them with MOT and legal action when she took it back to have them replaced. They had to put new brake discs and shoes on.
 
If it was an apple product, i would expect a refund, say an issue with a new iPad or something. I think if they fix it, then they have satisfied the warranty. You could ask them to have another check over it, or ask for a refund. SPeak to the dealer principle if you are struggling, but to be honest, I don't think you will get a refund.
 
lawrie29 said:
If it was an apple product, i would expect a refund, say an issue with a new iPad or something. I think if they fix it, then they have satisfied the warranty. You could ask them to have another check over it, or ask for a refund. SPeak to the dealer principle if you are struggling, but to be honest, I don't think you will get a refund.
Click to expand...

:'(
 
lawrie29 said:
If it was an apple product, i would expect a refund, say an issue with a new iPad or something. I think if they fix it, then they have satisfied the warranty. You could ask them to have another check over it, or ask for a refund. SPeak to the dealer principle if you are struggling, but to be honest, I don't think you will get a refund.
Click to expand...

If its not fit for purpose (car doesnt work as it should), they have no option but to take the car back/offer full refund. Its a legal requirement.
 
Gareth S said:
If its not fit for purpose (car doesnt work as it should), they have no option but to take the car back/offer full refund. Its a legal requirement.
Click to expand...

Thats what I was thinking as well. Is there anywhere I can get a copy of something that shows this, that I would be able to produce to the garage if things start getting heated?
 
You have bought it with Nissan finance, and hence they have an interest in (technically they own) the car.

If you have no joy with the garage I would speak with them ... bet they will be willing to help.
 
Gareth S said:
If its not fit for purpose (car doesnt work as it should), they have no option but to take the car back/offer full refund. Its a legal requirement.
Click to expand...

If that was new, then yes, however, I beleive( I am no expert) as long as they repair any faults, thus making it fit for purpose (and it is not a new car, so you can't expect everything to be working 100%) I think they are covered.

They may well swap it to keep you happy, but as long as they fulfill the warranty, I think they are fine.
 
Thanks for the links Ken, I'll take a look.
 
Under warranty you are liable for paying any costs incurred in finding the fault although this will be covered should there be a fault with the car which it sounds as if there obvioulsy is!

A 3 month warranty will be standard with any vehicle bought from a Nissan/Renault dealer.

Your dealers should be getting this rectified asap but warranty work will take a second seat to customers who are booked into the Dealership which sounds harsh but unfortauntely true.

Will PM the number for Nissan Customer Care, if the Dealer does not give you any positive comments of what they will be doing on your behalf.

Sorry for the point by point style answer but knackered :D
 
Ryan, thanks for the input.

Couple of points I should have mentioned. Got full RAC cover with the car, he thinks he has identified the fault, going to Peugeot dealer tomorrow, courtesy of RAC, tab taken care of by dealer I bought car from.

Also car came with a 6 month warranty. This will be the second attempt at fixing the same fault. Not too worried about how long they have it as they will sort me a courtesy car. What is begining to wind me up is that I believe they have knowingly sold me a car with an ongoing fault.
 
It is unlikely that a main dealer would have sold a lemon, we have had instances where a customer has picked up a car where we have had the car for 40 days, been through the workshop and been on numerous test drives, moved around the forecourt etc and 15 miles down the road after handover something on the car has failed. It's a royal PITA when it happens, not only for the customer but for ourselves as it does not make us look very good, unfortunately it does happen from time to time...

I guess the only thing to come from this is that they are fixing it quickly and of course with no hassle (with the exception of being without a car), I would rather be in that position than trying to fight a dealer who wasn't willing to recitfy a problem :D
 
lawrie29 said:
If that was new, then yes, however, I beleive( I am no expert) as long as they repair any faults, thus making it fit for purpose (and it is not a new car, so you can't expect everything to be working 100%) I think they are covered.

They may well swap it to keep you happy, but as long as they fulfill the warranty, I think they are fine.
Click to expand...

If they fix the car and rectify any faults then yes, they are covered under the fit for purpose guise.

I understand this is the 2nd time back to the garage?
If so, give them one more chance to remedy the fault to YOUR satisfaction, if it is still not sorted, reject the car under not fit for purpose and demand a full refund. Trying to find the link from quentin wilsons guide in the sunday mirror for you.

edit: cant find the link, but drop him an email via the sunday mirror website and see what he says or can do for you
 
Last edited:
The One said:
Lol thats what buying a cheap French car gets you.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you think spending almost 9k on a car is cheap. For me thats quite a lot of money. I'm also glad you find it funny. I hope one day I can post equally as helpful a comment onto a thread of yours. insult deleted
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apologies from me YV. Had a difficult day. However I didn't appreciate his initial pointless post which can only have been posted to get a reaction.

Gareth, thanks for your thoughts, hopefully this time it will be sorted.
 
Last edited:
No problem Nick, apology accepted.

FWIW, give the dealers a chance to rectify the situation. I can sit here now and think of 5 different components off the top of my head on my own French car that could fail and cause exactly the same symptoms as each other. It doesnt mean this fault is the same as the last and it IS the reason you get a used car warranty - the car is NOT new, it will feasibly have issues - hell even a new one could. What I can say, is that very few main dealer type garages would deliberately sell a crock of crap, its simply isn't worth the hassle these days, customers are quick to complain and do what you are doing right now and tell the world via the internet [of course, very few do the same when they have a wonderful experience] so if a car is suspected of being a lemon, better to get rid via the trade than a forecourt.
 
do you have the previous owners details
if so try and contact them to dee if they off loaded the car because of the same fault
 
Cheers YV. My biggest gripe is the fact I was assured the fault was fixed 3 weeks ago, yet the same fault, verified by the RAC mans electronic plug in thingy, is back again today. I am trying to give them every opportunity but begining to feel like going round in circles. Ah well, things always look better in the morning and hopefully, like I said before, this time it really will get sorted.

Terry, thats not a bad idea. If it has ongoing problems, I believe I have a decent enough relationship with the garage where it might be worth trading the car again without too much loss.
 
Last edited:
Car collected this morning to be taken to garage. RAC man says he has seen it before and has a feeling it is something to do with the fly by wire throttle, either pedal end or throttle body end. Fingers crossed now.
 
As said earlier in the post, it is likely to be a sensor or something.
Modern cars are great and efficient but they are also crammed full of electronic gadgets to sense this and monitor that! Great when they work, pain in the rear when one goes and you don't know which on it is.

Here's a tip that I did for my dads vectra. I bought a Asian version of vauxhalls tech 2 software. for around £30-40 you get the software and a data cable.
Install it on a laptop then plug it into the cars ECU, started the engine and bingo up came all the engine ingo including the rogue sensor which was failing (mass airflow meter).

If you don't want to be as extreme as that try and find an independent peugeot specialist who can plug your car into a computer and fault find for you.
Usually the independent specialists are cheaper than the mainstream garages.

Worth bearing in mind for the future and once your 6 month warrenty has expired!
 
Wiseman

My advice would be to stick to your guns, do some research and document EVERYTHING.

Excuse the link to another forum but this thread outlines a major issue i have had with my MINI Cooper S, my user name is MJK 1980 and i come in post #18, page 2.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/second-generation-mini-cooper-s/179850-intermittent-acceleration-issue-mini-cooper-s-r56.html

Quick summary of my case;
29/04 - Routine service by main dealer
30/04 - Critical failure of the engine, called dealer who advised that it was not their issue and to get the car recovered and they will look at it.
04/05 - Car recovered and sent to main dealer.
18/05 - Main dealer charge me £600 for repairs stating that they had not done anything during the service that could cause failure. Collect car.
19/05 - Car breaks down again. Returned to main dealer and ECU fault codes reset.
20/05 - Car breaks down again. Main dealer notes that they can diagnose and repair the car at extra cost to myself.
21/05 - Hand delivered letter of complaint to main dealer. Email copy to franchise head office. Lodge official complaint with BMW Mini UK.
22/05 to present - major communication with the franchise service manager and regional director. This has resulted in the fault being identified as a design flaw with the engine. Mini UK has agreed to cover work up to the cost of £5.5k, as the engine needs to be rebuilt. Franchise also close to agreement of £600 refund for initial work.

There has been lots, and i mean LOTS, of semi heated telephone calls and running around on my part, hence the summary. I have completed a great deal of research in to how the Cooper S engine works and actually knew about the design flaw before the service manager told me it was the problem. Research on the consumer laws also pays off.

Good luck with your issues. Stand firm and i am sure it will work out.
 
Last edited:
Cheers Martyn, appreciated.
 
MINI UK are a shower of ***** at the best of times, I had a series of "semi-heated" calls with them regarding the validity of the TLC pack, which basically turned out to be a complete con.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
MINI UK are a shower of ***** at the best of times, I had a series of "semi-heated" calls with them regarding the validity of the TLC pack, which basically turned out to be a complete con.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I won't be falling in to that trap again. As soon as i get the mini back i'll be pulling my personal plates off it and looking to offload. This has been the first car in 13 years that i have had major issues with so hopefully i can go another 13 trouble free.

Ohhh 13. I wonder.................
 
Some years ago I bought a cat that was just under three years old - a fiat. As I drove away from the garage I experienced exactly the same symtoms as you have - the car was duly picked up and they did some stuff to it and told me it was fixed. Sure enough, about the same place when I drove it away the second time the fault showed itself again.

This turned out the be the throttle body housing which also includes the throttle position indicator. It took a trip to fiat and an outlay from the dealer of about £700 to get it fixed but that car then lasted me for 5 years without anything else going wrong.
 
Richard, I certainly hope that after this I get no more problems. I tend to change cars every couple of years so as long as get that out of it I'll be happy.
 
It could well be what Richard describes - a faut with the throttle, or something as relatively minor and inexpensive as a MAF sensor. There's nothing worse than feeling you can't rely on a car - fingers crossed you get it sorted.
 
CT said:
It could well be what Richard describes - a faut with the throttle, or something as relatively minor and inexpensive as a MAF sensor. There's nothing worse than feeling you can't rely on a car - fingers crossed you get it sorted.
Click to expand...

Many thanks.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
MINI UK are a shower of ***** at the best of times, I had a series of "semi-heated" calls with them regarding the validity of the TLC pack, which basically turned out to be a complete con.
Click to expand...

A friends daughter bought a new mini with the service pack, it got to over 18 months and they still wouldn't look at it because the service light hadn't come on, she was doing lots of motorway miles so the computer just kept extending the service interval, to say her dad wasn't happy about it was an understatement
 
Last edited:
Thread revival time. Would appear to be a biggish problem, so thank goodness for the warranty. Apparently the temp sensor housing from the coolant system has failed, causing coolant to leak over the electrics. First course of action is now a new ECU (£550 plus labour and vat) and a new temp sensor and housing, then if this doesn't fix it, a new wiring harness reqd, cost, I hate to think. If the ECU replacement works then I should have the car back on Friday evening, if not middle of next week. So in total, in 6 ish weeks of ownership the car will have spent between 13 and17 days in the garage.
 
wack61 said:
A friends daughter bought a new mini with the service pack, it got to over 18 months and they still wouldn't look at it because the service light hadn't come on, she was doing lots of motorway miles so the computer just kept extending the service interval, to say her dad wasn't happy about it was an understatement
Click to expand...


It's just a scam, the dealers reset the service indicators so that there is no way the car will get all of the services due unless you can manage to have the car hit 50k at exactly 5 years old.
 
wisemen said:
First course of action is now a new ECU (£550 plus labour and vat) and a new temp sensor and housing, then if this doesn't fix it, a new wiring harness reqd, cost, I hate to think.
Click to expand...

Typical main dealer approach to fault finding engine management problems. Throw new parts at it until something works. :(

I went through the same thing with a Citroen BX_16v over 15 years ago. It would lose all power when it got warm and as soon as you stopped at a junction it would just stall when you let up the clutch. They had it for two weeks and couldn't fix it, their diagnostic equipment claimed it was working perfectly when it wouldn't even rev above idle. Eventually they gave it to a Bosch specialist and they found that the over-voltage protection diode inside the ECU was breaking down due to the wrong spark plugs being fitted. They replaced the plugs and soldered a new diode in to the ECU circuit board and it was fixed.

I really should have gone after the main dealer to pay the bill as they fitted the wrong plugs when they serviced it the previous month, but I was young and naive then and only realised years later :(.

I have a very dim view of main dealers. My experience with the main dealer for my current car has only served to re-inforce it.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
It's just a scam, the dealers reset the service indicators so that there is no way the car will get all of the services due unless you can manage to have the car hit 50k at exactly 5 years old.
Click to expand...

Not so, as technology advances dealers are pushed more and more to keep running costs down. As manufacturers test their product more thoroughly different manufacturers are happy letting their cars go longer without a service, a car that sits on a motorway for most of its life is a lot less likely to incur problems for one teetering around town for example.

The car will still be covered by its manufacturers warranty without its annual service, you just end up paying less as you don't have to service it every year.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Typical main dealer approach to fault finding engine management problems. Throw new parts at it until something works. :(

I went through the same thing with a Citroen BX_16v over 15 years ago. It would lose all power when it got warm and as soon as you stopped at a junction it would just stall when you let up the clutch. They had it for two weeks and couldn't fix it, their diagnostic equipment claimed it was working perfectly when it wouldn't even rev above idle. Eventually they gave it to a Bosch specialist and they found that the over-voltage protection diode inside the ECU was breaking down due to the wrong spark plugs being fitted. They replaced the plugs and soldered a new diode in to the ECU circuit board and it was fixed.

I really should have gone after the main dealer to pay the bill as they fitted the wrong plugs when they serviced it the previous month, but I was young and naive then and only realised years later :(.

I have a very dim view of main dealers. My experience with the main dealer for my current car has only served to re-inforce it.
Click to expand...

To be honest, with a bit of reasearch, this appears to be a common fault. Also I can't see that the dealer would throw 500 quids worth of parts on it if it wasn't required. And as its not costing me a dime, they can throw as many new parts on it as they want!!! I'm just fed up that its all happened only 5 weeks after getting the car and that I have been without my shiny convertible during this nice weather.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top