Car trouble

pxl8

pxl8

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Andy Jones
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So when it comes to engines I'm hopeless, the kind of person the sucking air over his teeth mechanic loves.

Back in March the head gasket went on my wife's vectra (s reg). Had it replaced to the tune of £800. On Friday the engine cut out in exactly the same way and by chance in the same place as last time. AA man did a compression test and there wasn't any pressure in two of the cylinders which usually means the head gasket has gone.

Towed to the garage, they had a quick look on Saturday and said they needed to open the cylinder head to investigate, that's being done today. The previous repair has 12mth warranty on parts and labour so I'm hoping that it will be fixed free of charge but...

are there any other things it could be? I'm more than a little concerned the garage will come back and say something like "Oh the head gasket is fine, it's the sub-minor lesser spotted gasketelle this time, that'll be another £800 please".
 
Had a similar problem on a Mondeo and the cost of repair was more than the car was worth,ended up scrapping it
 
It could have a crack in the head or block, similar symptoms to a head gasket failure. Crack in the head or block is usually caused by excess heat, i.e. insufficient coolant/blockage in cooling system/airlock in the system preventing circulation/knackered water pump.

Did it overheat before it broke down?
Had you checked coolant level and oil level recently?
What exactly happened when it gave up the ghost?

The garage should check the coolant for the presence of combustion gases - simple process called a sniffer test. That said, it's 99% likely there will be combustion gases present if the suspicion is HG or a crack somewhere.
 
could be that the last failure caused some warping, which has caused the gasket to fail again? (or i could be talking doo doo)
 
Ok, plenty of coolant and oil, both were checked at the time, passed it's MOT a couple of weeks back with no problems apart from a bulb.

Didn't overheat, just slowed at the end of the exit ramp from the motorway and the engine cut, no coughing, loss of power or any other warnings, just died and wouldn't re-start. Hadn't been going especially fast on the motorway, heavy traffic and 50 limit in place.
 
t could have a crack in the head or block, similar symptoms to a head gasket failure. Crack in the head or block is usually caused by excess heat, i.e. insufficient coolant/blockage in cooling system/airlock in the system preventing circulation/knackered water pump.

Did it overheat before it broke down?
Had you checked coolant level and oil level recently?
What exactly happened when it gave up the ghost?

The garage should check the coolant for the presence of combustion gases - simple process called a sniffer test. That said, it's 99% likely there will be combustion gases present if the suspicion is HG or a crack somewhere./QUOTE]

I Agree and unfortunately this is BAD a crack in the engine block is likely to mean you will need a new block or engine. You may be able to get it machined but if a crack has caused loss of compression then machining isn't an option.

I would be concerned about the problem recurring as if two head gaskets have failed then there is an underlying problem that needs to be found before the engine becomes a write off. Unfortunately with labour prices the way they are any form of investigation could prove pricey.

Have the insurance company been told? they may well offer to write the car off

Andy
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Rovers_Andy said:
I would be concerned about the problem recurring as if two head gaskets have failed then there is an underlying problem that needs to be found before the engine becomes a write off. Unfortunately with labour prices the way they are any form of investigation could prove pricey.

Have the insurance company been told? they may well offer to write the car off
Click to expand...

At the moment it's not costing anything as it's under the warranty of the previous repair but I'm concerned it may extend beyond that.

Tell me more about the insurance company writing the car off? Why, how?
 
pxl8 said:
Ok, plenty of coolant and oil, both were checked at the time, passed it's MOT a couple of weeks back with no problems apart from a bulb.

Didn't overheat, just slowed at the end of the exit ramp from the motorway and the engine cut, no coughing, loss of power or any other warnings, just died and wouldn't re-start. Hadn't been going especially fast on the motorway, heavy traffic and 50 limit in place.
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Coolant level may be ok, but if combustion gases are present that would confirm HG or crack/warp in head/block.

At least you know from AA bloke that there is no compression in 2 cylinders so the garage can't argue that. You'll just have to see what they say, and get ready to argue!

Or there's the scrappage scheme...
 
Sorry mate i was talking a lood of rubbish :lol: (it has been known)

I just spoke to my dad about it and mechanical failure would only be covered by an extended warranty or mechanical breakdown cover on your insurance policy.

Sorry for the duff information:bang:

I think there a few things that need to be checked.

The replacement gasket may have been fitted incorrectly or the replacement gasket may have been faulty (covered by warranty)

The PH of the coolant, this will indicate contamination or lack of inhibitor (could cause corrosion of the engine block)

Flow (Viscosity) test of the Lube Oil versus a fresh batch. This will indicate if there is water contamination


One other point, can you remember which Units were showing low compression? If they were adjacent then it strengthens the case for a crack in the engine block.

Hope this helps and i hope you are able to get to the bottom of the issue without it being costly

Andy
 
matty said:
could be that the last failure caused some warping, which has caused the gasket to fail again? (or i could be talking doo doo)
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That was my first thought too. Impossible to prove now though if that was the case. (The warped head I mean, not you're talking doo doo. :lol:)
 
If the engine has been roasted then there's a fair chance that the head would have needed skimming, it could well be that they just stuck a gasket on the last time without bothering with that though.

As mentioned above, the head could also be cracked between number 2 + 3 cylinders, as that's the part that gets hottest. I can't see the block being cracked though, you'd really have needed to have cooked the engine to get to that stage :nuts:
 
Ok, if memory serves the head was skimmed last time and I recall something about a pressure test too :shrug:

Oh, the car's silver if that helps :D
 
Silver car? thats your problem right there :nono:

Should be made out steel alloys etc, Silver is much to soft :lol::lol:
 
pxl8 said:
Ok, if memory serves the head was skimmed last time and I recall something about a pressure test too :shrug:

Oh, the car's silver if that helps :D
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For your sake I hope it's made of silver to make it worth spending £800 getting it sorted ;)
 
Garage just called, snapped cam shaft, they're still checking for any damage to the head and will let me know....

What's a new cam shaft likely to cost?
 
pxl8 said:
Garage just called, snapped cam shaft, they're still checking for any damage to the head and will let me know....

What's a new cam shaft likely to cost?
Click to expand...


Ive never heard of a cam shaft snapping. Im guessing it will be quite costly mate. Im guessing they would put a new cam belt on it when they repair it as it needs to be removed to fit it i think. Also, it depends if its damaged anyhting else. The shaft snapping will through out the timing.
 
Lots depending on any further damage....... and if any of the valves hit the piston head, or broke off into the cylinder, the engine could be a write off.
 
pxl8 said:
Garage just called, snapped cam shaft, they're still checking for any damage to the head and will let me know....

What's a new cam shaft likely to cost?
Click to expand...

A lot, it's probably done other damage too :shake:

Andyvalver said:
Ive never heard of a cam shaft snapping.
Click to expand...

It's more common than you'd think...

Muggins here has actually managed to snap two crankshafts and one of those was an EN40B one in a Mini Cooper 'S' :whistling:
 
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Id investigate it further. The shaft could of been damaged when you had the previous work done as it would of been removed and re fitted. Who knows
 
more than the cars worth, and a sheared camshaft will cost more than its worth, not to mention the 30+hrs labour, sorry fella, you've had some serious bad luck
 
Rovers_Andy said:
more than the cars worth, and a sheared camshaft will cost more than its worth, not to mention the 30+hrs labour, sorry fella, you've had some serious bad luck
Click to expand...

30 hours labour? lol slow mechanic :P
 
No compression in two cylinders all of a sudden does sound like the head gasket.

Be a bit of a coincidence for cylinder or piston ring wear to cause loss of compression in 2 cylinders at the same time.
A crack in the cylinder block or head could do that.

Did AA man say if the affected cylinders were adjacent to each other?
 
its a big big job to strip down and engine, pull the camshaft etc
 
Rovers_Andy said:
its a big big job to strip down and engine, pull the camshaft etc
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If it's overhead cam, that shouldn't be too big a job, but the damage it may have caused could be. Bent valves, holes in pistons etc.
 
Cripes,
I've snapped a camshaft once, and a timing belt twice. The camshaft was the cheapest to fix, as luckily I hadn't bent any valves. Saying that though, it made a helluva racket before it went........

If memory serves, the Camshaft for a cavalier, and lifters etc. all came to about £120 - And it took me about three hours to fit....

If it's any consolation, my alternator bearing siezed up on Friday, disintegrating the pulley, and cooking the drive-belt. I spent 3 hours on the hard shoulder of the M25 waiting for the AA, then another hour waiting for a different recovery truck to take me from my "place of safety" to home..... Stripped it all down Saturday morning, only to find that I can't get any parts till tomorrow.

Oh, and my MOT ran out in July, but I never knew about that till yesterday.
 
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If it's overhead cam, that shouldn't be too big a job, but the damage it may have caused could be. Bent valves, holes in pistons etc.
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yeah sorry, had my work head on then, and agree about the cam itself, its certainly more a case of the resultant damage from bits flying round inside the engine etc
 
Rovers_Andy said:
yeah sorry, had my work head on then, and agree about the cam itself, its certainly more a case of the resultant damage from bits flying round inside the engine etc
Click to expand...


You also need to consider why the camshaft snapped, could well have a knackered oil pump as well and if it didn't it may have now.
 
Car has been scrapped and I've had a chat with the parents of a girl whose wedding I shot in July who own a 2nd hand lot. They're sourcing a car for us at cost and have offered the loan of one in the meantime :thumbs:
 
30hrs to fix a snapped camshaft, bloody hell. id like to own the garage that charged people for that!


not sure id like to pick up the bill for that.


is their actually 30hrs work in most road engines?
 
Bloody hell 30 hours for a snapped cam, me and my mate took the V8 engine and gearbox out of my XK8 swapped both cams, all the chains and tensioners + the ancillaries put it back in got it running to find the flywheels were different so took the gearbox back out swapped the flywheels and put it all back together and that only took about 30 hours, mind you it was over about 6 weeks and suicide/murder came close a few times:D

I think the biggest shock in this thread is you spent £800 on a S reg Vectra :eek:
 
wack61 said:
I think the biggest shock in this thread is you spent £800 on a S reg Vectra :eek:
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The idea was that having spent it the car would last a bit longer than 6 months. When it comes to cars we are properly unlucky, hear them violins playing? :lol:
 
pxl8 said:
The idea was that having spent it the car would last a bit longer than 6 months. When it comes to cars we are properly unlucky, hear them violins playing? :lol:
Click to expand...

even so you need to find a reliable mechanic who won't rip you off, £800 for a head gasket job sounds expensive to me

I had a VW van some years ago, cambelt snapped despite being 12 months 16,000 miles before it was due, the garage fixed it then 3 months later BANG

the cam snapped, it turned out they hadn't replaced the stretch bolt that held the crankshaft pulley on so it came lose, after a long argument I agreed to pay for the parts and they did it again for free.

something has just rung a bell in my head, vectras had a problem with plastic cam pulleys cracking around that year, if one broke up it could cause the belt to lose tension, valve hits cam at the wrong point breaking the cam

did they check/replace these when they did the head gasket job

edit, found it

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=432

Recalls
1996 (8/95 to 2/96 build: 40,000 cars): check front seatbelt mounting bolts and tighten if necessary. 1997 (1995-1996 1.6 16vs only-27,000 cars): Possibility of failure of plastic cambelt idler pulley GF50, which can snap cambelt. Changed as an 'in service mod' when cambelts are changed at 35,000-40,000 mile intervals. 1997 (Jan-May '96 build): Fuel pipe may come off at tank. 1998 (all 200,000 built before July 1998): handbrake cable subject to premature wear. Modified cable free replacement service. 1998 (automatics only): in service modification to autobox ECU mapping. 1999: possibility of failure of cambelt idler pulley on petrol engined 'P' to 'R' reg Vectras (Vauxhall Recall Helpline: 01189 458500 or 01582 427200) June 2000 recall of V6 models due to crankshaft fault. 2001: TSB about voltage spikes from the alternator damaging the camshaft sensor. This is prevented by unpicking the wiring loom and re-routing the cam and crankshaft sensor cables together around the front of the airbox, keeping them away from the alternator.
 
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At least you feel that you have a justifiable problem to have the car out of action.

I run an old V70 diesel and I've just spent around 10 hours over 3 days replacing a small metal bracket which cost £8 (from volvo). I am now covered in small scratches and bruises. The Dealer I bought it from checked their records and the chain as a whole had previously supplied 1 of these brackets in the last 15 years.
 
blocked radiator

pxl8 said:
So when it comes to engines I'm hopeless, the kind of person the sucking air over his teeth mechanic loves.

Back in March the head gasket went on my wife's vectra (s reg). Had it replaced to the tune of £800. On Friday the engine cut out in exactly the same way and by chance in the same place as last time. AA man did a compression test and there wasn't any pressure in two of the cylinders which usually means the head gasket has gone.

Towed to the garage, they had a quick look on Saturday and said they needed to open the cylinder head to investigate, that's being done today. The previous repair has 12mth warranty on parts and labour so I'm hoping that it will be fixed free of charge but...

are there any other things it could be? I'm more than a little concerned the garage will come back and say something like "Oh the head gasket is fine, it's the sub-minor lesser spotted gasketelle this time, that'll be another £800 please".
Click to expand...
 
matty said:
could be that the last failure caused some warping, which has caused the gasket to fail again? (or i could be talking doo doo)
Click to expand...

could be

did they skim the head last time (they level out the top to make it flat after warping)
 
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