Car Sevicing

SpikeK6

SpikeK6

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Just read something on Facebook and it got me thinking.

The person involved was asking how to get the wheel off their car so they could change the brake pads. they did not know what or how the locking wheel nut worked or to get it off.
Now do not get me wrong I am all for people servicing and messing with their cars its their choice but if they do not even know how to get the wheel off what else are they going to be doing wrong, specially with brakes.

Now with parts readily available 7 days a week from the likes of Halfords etc and the price of garages per hour to have work done how many cars old and new are driving round with bits being changed by people that have no idea of what they are doing??

Quite scary really!!!
 
It's down to the cost of repairs.

At £80+ per hour for labour alone people are thinking rightly or wrongly they can do the jobs themselves.

I'm lucky that I was brought up to fix my own car, but I have an old Mercedes now and some jobs I won't touch.

Brakes I can do myself likewise oil changes but anything more and I'd get it to a specialist.
 
Yep, beggers belief what folk will try while having none of the basic knowledge.

Brake pads are quite hard to get wrong, but at the same time may need a rewind tool to get the new ones in.

Something else to consider - chances of these folk having any proper kit for lifting the car? Low - You can almost guarantee the car would be supported by the jack in the boot only which is bad. And that extra safety option of putting the removed wheel under something solid would not be used either. No, that's a risky game, I've seen it locally.

That said, we do all have to learn somewhere. My mantra as I was learning was always 'if it is part of braking or steering, I'll leave it to the professionals' and that served me well. I have made mistakes, but none of them on parts of the critical systems. Now I have more skill, better confidence, and a lot more of the right tools for a job - so I'll gladly tackle the bigger jobs.
 
I saw a picture of a car where the owner had changed the brake pads but put them in the wrong way round so the metal back plate was in contact with the discs

He'd driven round like it for quite a while before taking it to a garage to see what the noise was
 
'Tis indeed worrying that a car fettled by a mere "dabbler" could be hurtling towards you at a closing speed of 140mph plus!
 
Also remember that many modern cars do not have a spare wheel, jack or wheel brace so this would cause even more "confusion"
 
Having done a couple of nuts and bolts rebuilds, I'm happy with my mechanical skills but I think I'll leave it all to the professionals these days. If I open my bonnet, I can't see an engine, there isn't even a dip stick!
 
if you dont know what you are doing leave it to someone who does - fortunatley i learnt from my mate watching him - now i service my own car,even disks and brake pads, if i was'nt confident i'd leave it tho.
 
Cars are something you shouldn't mess with unless you know how to do the job. Luckily I was brought up with car nuts like my dad and I'm fairly confident with all kids of work from mechanical to body repairs, I'm a spray painter my trade. With modern cars though some work is quite tricky to do by yourself with all this diagnostic and computerised cr*p. Unless you have the software to find the electrical faults it's mainly trial and error to sort them out, and that's if you know roughly what to look for. I've not long got my own diagnostics software and learnt how to use it so it's very rare any of my cars are in the garage. I was sick of taking it to the local diagnostics centre and pay them just to tell me what was wrong, hopefully it will save me a bit of cash in the long run with doing it myself.
 
Nod said:
If I open my bonnet, I can't see an engine, there isn't even a dip stick!
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It's only an engine cover. Don't be scared just take it off. :)
After almost 34yrs as a press toolmaker at Ford, they are now retraining me as a prototype mechanic. I've just spent 4 weeks dismantling engines right down to a bare block and then rebuilding them and retiming them when putting the timing belts or chains on. Only time we used the "build books" was for the torque settings. Rest was done from memory and logic. Also recently spent a few months on car electrics, making up looms from scratch to drawings, or making up looms just from the information on Ford's etis website., made up a wiring loom to add a heated screen to a mates Fiesta, and a towbar loom for another Fiesta.
Even before all that training, I've done brake discs and pads, brake shoes, replaced an intercooler and all boost hoses, replaced a cam shaft, fuel filters etc. Nothing is hard really, but being a little bit mechanically minded does help I suppose. Only time I won't entertain doing it myself is if I don't have the necessary equipment or it's too cold or wet to do it outside.
 
nilagin said:
It's only an engine cover. Don't be scared just take it off. :)
After almost 34yrs as a press toolmaker at Ford, they are now retraining me as a prototype mechanic. I've just spent 4 weeks dismantling engines right down to a bare block and then rebuilding them and retiming them when putting the timing belts or chains on. Only time we used the "build books" was for the torque settings. Rest was done from memory and logic. Also recently spent a few months on car electrics, making up looms from scratch to drawings, or making up looms just from the information on Ford's etis website., made up a wiring loom to add a heated screen to a mates Fiesta, and a towbar loom for another Fiesta.
Even before all that training, I've done brake discs and pads, brake shoes, replaced an intercooler and all boost hoses, replaced a cam shaft, fuel filters etc. Nothing is hard really, but being a little bit mechanically minded does help I suppose. Only time I won't entertain doing it myself is if I don't have the necessary equipment or it's too cold or wet to do it outside.
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I must say that I'm jealous of what you're getting to do at work! I'd like to try rebuilding an old engine at some point, so to get paid whilst doing it would be pretty cool!
 
TopBanana said:
I must say that I'm jealous of what you're getting to do at work! I'd like to try rebuilding an old engine at some point, so to get paid whilst doing it would be pretty cool!
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Get an old motorbike engine to rebuild.
They are small and light enough to do on the kitchen table (generally), just don't tell the mrs.
 
LC2 said:
Get an old motorbike engine to rebuild.
They are small and light enough to do on the kitchen table (generally), just don't tell the mrs.
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Good advice, when I was a teenager my Mum and Dad had an old petrol lawn mower. That was the 1st engine I stripped down and rebuilt. After replacing a twin choke Webber carb on an old Cortina when I was an apprentice, I stripped down and rebuilt the old carb.
TopBanana said:
I must say that I'm jealous of what you're getting to do at work! I'd like to try rebuilding an old engine at some point, so to get paid whilst doing it would be pretty cool!
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Alas the engine strip down and build is over. I'll be working on prototype engine dyno's, but I will be required to replace cylinder heads, turbos, throttle bodies etc. if required. Certainly enjoyed the course I did though. Water pumps, oil pumps etc. have come on along way since I first became interested in cars and variable valve timing is amazing yet so simple in it's concept. The only bit of the course I didn't find interesting after having done it once was having to measure pistons, bores, cam and crankshaft bearings on each and every engine.
But having done the course and seen how everything works, everything falls into place and is logical. It's just amazing how everything works at 1000's of rpm.
 
LC2 said:
Get an old motorbike engine to rebuild.
They are small and light enough to do on the kitchen table (generally), just don't tell the mrs.
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lol, maybe I should get my chainsaw or hedgetrimmer in bits. (lucking my missus has never complained about me reparing bits of my push bike in the kitchen, this can't be that different!)
 
I worked in a private works garage for thirty years, and all this reminds me of the two classic garage one liners.
“My car wont start” “SH*T in the carburettor.” “How often do I have to do that?”
“My car wont start, I think there’s water in the carburettor.” “Where’s the car madam?” “In the canal.” :)

Rhodese.
 
A sign in a local garage a few years ago:

Labour - £30 per hour
Customer watching - £35 per hour
Customer advising £40 per hour
Customer helping - £60 per hour


Steve.
 
nilagin said:
It's only an engine cover. Don't be scared just take it off. :).
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Still no dipstick! The other point of getting the thing main dealer serviced is to keep max trade-in value when I come to replace it (not for a year or 2, by which time I'm hoping there will be some affordable Sportbrakes around - maybe even one up to the spec my saloon is in terms of extra toys!). We've found a good local specialist who will be dealing with HER XK but the XF will be main dealer. Unfortunate fact of life that the stamps are worth it.

Tim, an old Villiers or similar 2 stroke bike engine probably has fewer moving parts than your pushbike! Follow that up with an old B&S 4 stroke.
 
I've long since tore up my man car in relation to fixing car, if something goes wrong or needs changing beyond topping up fluids or changing a bulb then my local garage comes and sorts it...I don't [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] up my car, my local village garage keeps in business, double win in my book
 
always done my own work to my cars n bikes over the years simply to save money
saying that i have never owned a brand new car always bought used and by the time i get em the warranty is well n truely over
i do agree though if you don't know what your doing leave it to somebody who does

the biggest problem nowadays with modern cars is the manufactures are cramming so much electronics into them it's becoming harder and harder to fix em even the dealers can struggle with some faults
changing the clutch on some cars means dropping the whole sub frame n engine just to get at it and without proper hydraulic ramps your gonna struggle at best not to mention the tools needed to load DMF's before you put it all back together

i think if somebody is asking how to take the wheel off the conversation ends there
 
cosmicma said:
always done my own work to my cars n bikes over the years simply to save money
saying that i have never owned a brand new car always bought used and by the time i get em the warranty is well n truely over
i do agree though if you don't know what your doing leave it to somebody who does

the biggest problem nowadays with modern cars is the manufactures are cramming so much electronics into them it's becoming harder and harder to fix em even the dealers can struggle with some faults
changing the clutch on some cars means dropping the whole sub frame n engine just to get at it and without proper hydraulic ramps your gonna struggle at best not to mention the tools needed to load DMF's before you put it all back together

i think if somebody is asking how to take the wheel off the conversation ends there
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:agree: We need to go back with running cars where the only electrics were the lights and wipers. I've had enough of all this diagnostic stuff and limp modes every time a light comes on. Luckily my cars have been alright so far (touch wood), but it's the amount of people that come to me for help regarding their electrical faults that is sometimes annoying. I'd take an old classic car running twin webber carbs over any new car.
 
The number of people that are completely clueless when it comes to car maintenance is getting to a frightening level. It's mainly because of most people getting loans and buying new cars, rather than saving for and buying a car they can actually afford. They never have to do any maintenance themselves, so they never learn how to do it. I'm glad they've finally introduced some of the (very) basic stuff into the driving test, it should help cut the number of people who don't realise that you have to check oil and fluid levels regularly.
 
I'm actually quite pleased that so many people treat cars as white goods, getting loans, trading in at 3-5 years because they *must be worn out now*... It means that depreciation is high, and that I can buy older cars for pennies (compare our 2nd hand car prices to much of europe, they are an absolute bargin here).
So please, don't stop the general public buying new cars every few years, and having the misconception that they are work out / about to explode at 100k miles.
 
LC2 said:
If they are one of your friends on FB, why not offer to go over and assist / talk them through the job?
We all had to learn at somepoint.
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Na they where not a friend, it was on one of the groups on facebook I am a member of.

I do all my own servicing to my cars bikes scooters etc. car engine is slightly more complicated now, cannot find the engine block lol.

I think the most annoying one that really really bugs me is the one that phones the AA/RAC or similar to change a wheel. I am sorry but if you cannot change a wheel on a car you should not be driving it, this should be part of the test and if you cannot do it you fail.

OK rant over lol
 
Some of us need our cars for mobility !

I'm not physically strong enough to change a wheel but I'm perfectly strong enough to drive it !!

Please don't make judgements like that .

There are many disabled folk for whom a car is perhaps not a necessity , but it gives them a life outside four walls
 
SpikeK6 said:
I think the most annoying one that really really bugs me is the one that phones the AA/RAC or similar to change a wheel.
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I have done that. I can (and have, on multiple occasions) rebuild an engine, but changing a wheel in the rain at the side of the motorway using only the tools supplied with the car when the bolts have tightened on since being torqued, as can happen on alloy wheels, is impossible. I was jumping up and down on the 6" long wrench trying to free the last bolt and it would not give, although I slipped a few times and caught my ankles in the process, so I had to give up and get the AA out.

I called them out last week because my boring, slow, diesel Audi estate wouldn't start as well. He couldn't diagnose it either, even with his laptop and OBD-II connector etc, and ended up towing me to a garage. Turned out to be the fuel pump, which although dispensing a good squirt of fuel to the injectors was apparently not doing it in a way the engine liked (!) If you want a shock, look into how much a fuel pump for a 2.5TDi V6 Audi engine (180bhp PD type, not common rail) costs.
 
SpikeK6 said:
I think the most annoying one that really really bugs me is the one that phones the AA/RAC or similar to change a wheel. I am sorry but if you cannot change a wheel on a car you should not be driving it, this should be part of the test and if you cannot do it you fail.
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I've had to do that before. After driving at 50 and having a blow out the rim was a fraction out of shape - I wasn't about to try and beat/hammer it off using only the tiny spring arm jack holding up the car

Nice guy with a trolley jack and a couple of rigid tripod-like frames and a lump hammer sorted it all out though
 
SpikeK6 said:
I think the most annoying one that really really bugs me is the one that phones the AA/RAC or similar to change a wheel. I am sorry but if you cannot change a wheel on a car you should not be driving it, this should be part of the test and if you cannot do it you fail.

l
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My wife and daughter know exactly how to change a wheel, but they're both petite women and lack the strength to do this easily. They do carry canned puncture sealant for emergencies, but this isn't going to help if the tyre is trashed. I can also think of a few situations in SA where a woman doesn't want to be stuck by the side of the road on her own. The AA actually offer an additional service to send a security guard immediately, if there's going to be a delay in getting a serviceman to the scene.
 
i wouldn't expect my wife to change the wheel on her car if she was unfortunate enough to get a puncture although there is a spare wheel , jack and tools to do so
it's one of the reasons we pay extra for breakdown cover
if i was in the car i would just change it it would be no big deal for me but i don't think my wife has ever changed a wheel or turned a spanner for that matter she doesn't need to thats my job or breakdown recoveries if i can't be there
 
cosmicma said:
i wouldn't expect my wife to change the wheel on her car if she was unfortunate enough to get a puncture although there is a spare wheel , jack and tools to do so
it's one of the reasons we pay extra for breakdown cover
if i was in the car i would just change it it would be no big deal for me but i don't think my wife has ever changed a wheel or turned a spanner for that matter she doesn't need to thats my job or breakdown recoveries if i can't be there
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Why not? It would save her being stuck at the roadside for an hour or so waiting for the AA etc.

My kid sis can (and has) changed wheels on her car by the side of the road, albeit with the help of a 5' scaffold pole that she carried around to add length to the wheel brace.
 
LC2 said:
Why not? It would save her being stuck at the roadside for an hour or so waiting for the AA etc.

My kid sis can (and has) changed wheels on her car by the side of the road, albeit with the help of a 5' scaffold pole that she carried around to add length to the wheel brace.
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because she drives a toyota previa which weighs about 2 tonne :)



and the one before that was even heavier


and like i said if i'm close enough i would do it if not thats what we pay our breakdown premium for
 
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cosmicma said:
because she drives a toyota previa which weighs about 2 tonne :)
and the one before that was even heavier
and like i said if i'm close enough i would do it if not thats what we pay our breakdown premium for
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Seriously??? What has the weight got to do with it, I'm not suggesting she holds it off the ground with one hand, whilst changing the wheel with another ;) That's what the jack is for, it will have been supplied with the weight of the vehicle in mind.

So, what happens if you're not around, or she's not close enough, but she needs to be somewhere in the next 25 minutes, however the breakdown assistance won't get to her for another hour.

Anyone driving a car should understand and be able to undertake the basics.
Fuel, water, oil, wheels/tyres are pretty much fundamentals. These are all things that I will insist on my daughter being able to check/undertake when she learns to drive.
 
I change my own wheels and have done so since I started driving. No biggie.:)

I have also (on more than one occasion :eek:) stopped elderly drivers with a flat tyre and changed it for them before they have their accident!

Hazard of living somewhere with an average age of about eighty, most of whom still drive! :rolleyes:
 
LC2 said:
Seriously??? What has the weight got to do with it, I'm not suggesting she holds it off the ground with one hand, whilst changing the wheel with another ;) That's what the jack is for, it will have been supplied with the weight of the vehicle in mind.

So, what happens if you're not around, or she's not close enough, but she needs to be somewhere in the next 25 minutes, however the breakdown assistance won't get to her for another hour.

Anyone driving a car should understand and be able to undertake the basics.
Fuel, water, oil, wheels/tyres are pretty much fundamentals. These are all things that I will insist on my daughter being able to check/undertake when she learns to drive.
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weight has got everything to do with it those vehicles are not your average fiesta and the supplied scissor jack isn't up to much trust me even a 3 tonne trolley jack is a bit of a struggle
i seriously doubt you would be happy letting your daughter change a wheel on either of those vehicles with the supplied scissor jack and wheel brace not to mention getting the spare wheel from under the vehicle it's a bit of a task for me never mind the wife

as for carrying a tool chest in the vehicle and a 3 tonne trolley jack just in case lets keep with reality it's not gonna happen it's a family vehicle not a mobile breakdown truck
and if i am not around and nobody i know can get to her before roadside assistance she will have to be somewhere later just the same if she got held up in a traffic jam
checking the basics is simple light work and my wife is very capable of doing but she doesn't because i do i don't see a problem with that do you ?

it's not about how capable my wife is it's about safety and i don't feel safe letting her attempt it especially on those types of vehicles it can be a bit of a struggle at the best of times

this is getting away from the topic of somebody asking advice on how to get a wheel off and if a question like that is asked surely the shouldn't be attempting any sort of work to the brakes which i don't think they should
 
If the person hasn't got the security key thingy, well knowing all about what your doing mechanically isn't going to help anyway so it may not be that much of a worry...

Rescue thing, I find car tools are never quite up to the job anyway, especially obvious after your local tyre shop has slapped the nuts on with a fat air hammer... tight enough for many car tools to slip or fold and bend, even if you are strong enough to turn the nut!.
My neighbours lads tried to change to the spare last summer, both 19 six foot tall, full time west ham junior players, and after borrowing my full-on breaker bar and pro socket, still couldn't turn the first nut!
I watch giggling for ten minutes shouting encouragement before being begged to help. ... And yes I went back and made sure they tightened them up after. :wacky:
 
SpikeK6 said:
Just read something on Facebook and it got me thinking.

The person involved was asking how to get the wheel off their car so they could change the brake pads. they did not know what or how the locking wheel nut worked or to get it off.
Now do not get me wrong I am all for people servicing and messing with their cars its their choice but if they do not even know how to get the wheel off what else are they going to be doing wrong, specially with brakes.

Now with parts readily available 7 days a week from the likes of Halfords etc and the price of garages per hour to have work done how many cars old and new are driving round with bits being changed by people that have no idea of what they are doing??

Quite scary really!!!
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After spending the majority of my young life as a spanner monkey I could tell you things to make your toes curl.....scary does not get close.

Boat on trailer with broken hitch/ball tied up with rope = can you weld this mate?:wideyed:
Brake master cylinder seals gone and customer wants an MOT - Nah mate you just need to pump it - been like that for months:rolleyes:
Hello - I have a bad screeching from front when I brake - pads sir, no I fitted new ones last week - O yeah he did wrong way round - disc was at 1.5mm thick and Blue with the heat:eek:
Hello, I fitted some wheel bearings on the back of my escort But there seems to be a problem with noise - Indeed sir there is an inner and outer bearing you have only the outer fitted its gonna be expensive - O just leave it then, sorry I cant let you drive it of premises as we are an MOT test station and If I let you im in the brown stuff...:bat:

The stories are endless - general public hobby mechanics can be a little foolish to say the least.
 
I do my own fluid level checks , get the beast washed , get tyres inflated when necessary and check all lights work . I have warning triangles and Hi Vi vests BUT everything else is done by my Dealers I know my limitations and they do not allow me to heave a Trolley jack out of the back and change a wheel . Thankfully I have a full size spare wheel . If I'm in trouble I contact the Main dealers or the RAC [ life membership ]
 
Except for my last car (a Mondeo diesel) I've done all my servicing and repairs on both cars and bikes. The Mondeo taught me that modern diesel cars are not for me...far too many very expensive things that can go wrong!

I most definitely will not be trusting any garage with a motorbike of mine. This was reinforced two days ago when I had to change the clutch cable on a bike I've had, secondhand, for a year. The previous owner paid for a new chain and sprockets a couple of months before I bought it. I regularly check the chain and rear sprocket and they are both fine.

Slightly different story with the front sprocket....when I took the cover off to do the cable it was obvious the garage hadn't bothered to change the front one and it was pretty much knackered. Why should the garage bother? It's not their lives they are putting at risk and it's not like it can be seen and it's extra work/expense. I still had the previous owner's email address so I sent her a message with a picture and a suggestion to change garages.

I'm also restoring a classic car and any time I get stuck on this, or with anything to do with other vehicles it's pretty handy that I work with a load of people who are quite knowledgeable about all things vehicular....someone always knows the answer or has the right tool:)
 
cosmicma said:
weight has got everything to do with it those vehicles are not your average fiesta and the supplied scissor jack isn't up to much trust me even a 3 tonne trolley jack is a bit of a struggle
i seriously doubt you would be happy letting your daughter change a wheel on either of those vehicles with the supplied scissor jack and wheel brace not to mention getting the spare wheel from under the vehicle it's a bit of a task for me never mind the wife

as for carrying a tool chest in the vehicle and a 3 tonne trolley jack just in case lets keep with reality it's not gonna happen it's a family vehicle not a mobile breakdown truck
and if i am not around and nobody i know can get to her before roadside assistance she will have to be somewhere later just the same if she got held up in a traffic jam
checking the basics is simple light work and my wife is very capable of doing but she doesn't because i do i don't see a problem with that do you ?

it's not about how capable my wife is it's about safety and i don't feel safe letting her attempt it especially on those types of vehicles it can be a bit of a struggle at the best of times

this is getting away from the topic of somebody asking advice on how to get a wheel off and if a question like that is asked surely the shouldn't be attempting any sort of work to the brakes which i don't think they should
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Your only lifting one corner of the vehicle so the scissor jack is more than enough, carry an axle stand if you don't trust it, but a 3 tonne trolley jack is a bit overkill.
 
nilagin said:
Your only lifting one corner of the vehicle so the scissor jack is more than enough, carry an axle stand if you don't trust it, but a 3 tonne trolley jack is a bit overkill.
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right.... i can just imagine it
here love once youv'e got the vehicle in the air crawl underneath and put that axle stand under that cross member just to be sure
oh don't forget to drag the spare out while your under there once youv'e loosened the retaining bolt of course
whats that you say do you leave the passengers ( usually children ) in the vehicle while you do this ?
no dear you get them out and leave them at the side of the road while you get on with it

tell you what why don't i just ring you or the breakdown recovery people
yea good idea i think you should do that

a 3 tonne trolley jack is what i use when i do work on that vehicle and axle stands if necessary the scissor jacks are border line at best and if you have tried to jack either the granvia or the previa up with the manufacture supplied jack you would know exactly what i'm talking about it might very well get the vehicle in the air but it doesn't feel safe at all

it's alright talking about lifting just a corner what about the wheel nuts should i leave an impact wrench alongside that axle stand they can be pretty tight sometimes
the wheels stuck on the hub
it happens a lot to quite a few different vehicles
just give it a couple of kicks or use that lump hammer iv'e left by the impact wrench n axle stand ( now were back to carrying a tool box )
i can't lift the spare up and get it lined up on the studs it's a bit heavy
never mind dear i'm sure you'll manage

it's all very well talking on a forum about how females should be capable of changing a wheel if they get a puncture and i'm sure there's many who can and do but the reality can be very different especially on a larger vehicle full of children which more often than not it is
it doesn't sit well with me to let my wife struggle when there are viable alternatives and i really don't care if others agree with me or not it's just my way
 
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