Car Scrappage Scheme....the figures don't add up

Flash In The Pan

Flash In The Pan

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Not to mention that a few weeks ago, before the new scheme was announced, when Vauxhall were doing their own similar £1000 deal, the price before trade in was only £6995 :lol:
 
What doesnt add up? and yeah loads of cars are now more expensive through that scheme :(

Edit - oh right 7795 - 2000 aint 5995
 
Its vauxhall, what do you expect :lol:
 
It's the same all over, I happen to have a 15 yr old rover that needs replacing. I don't need or want a big car so I've been checking out the supermini class, fiat panda, hyundai getz/i10, toyota yaris... So far the main thing I've seen is that manufacturers are taking the £2000 off the list price of the car not the street price which in some cases works out more expensive than the street price. Some are being more generous but the final price is always similar to the price you can buy the car cash down.

Example, I can buy a Fiat Panda active eco blah for £5600 or less just by shopping around. Fiats scrappage offer takes the price down to £4995, a saving of £600 which is still more than my car is worth but it's nowhere near the £2000 an honest deal should give me.

My neighbour is scrapping his ford escort in favour of a micra, the local dealer seems to be a bit more honest about it in so far as he seems to be giving them the 2k off the going price not the list but the deal is not done yet and I have a feeling it will change.
 
the problem is rrps are so high, they could do what they like
 
Its a right con. I had a look round too in order to get rid of my old Rover. At Fords they wanted an extra 4k on a focus with a diesel lump compared to a petrol with exactly the same on the rest of the spec! ( just because it was a diesel!)

Diesel is the way forward, car companies are now realising this and cashing in on that. Look around for good bargains. Ive now got a 1.5dci Clio. £35 a year tax 68 to the gallon! cheap insurance!

Quite funny really how diesel (the fuel from the dark ages!) has led the development and innovation of the most technologically advanced fuel economical engines!
 
And ford and Honda are apparently "staying out of it"
until the VAT is sorted ( in their favour no doubt)
 
Bradders09 said:
Its a right con. I had a look round too in order to get rid of my old Rover. At Fords they wanted an extra 4k on a focus with a diesel lump compared to a petrol with exactly the same on the rest of the spec! ( just because it was a diesel!)

Diesel is the way forward, car companies are now realising this and cashing in on that. Look around for good bargains. Ive now got a 1.5dci Clio. £35 a year tax 68 to the gallon! cheap insurance!

Quite funny really how diesel (the fuel from the dark ages!) has led the development and innovation of the most technologically advanced fuel economical engines!
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go to a different dealer, ive got a Frod pricelist for Focii and the difference between the 2.0 petrol and 2.0 derv with the Titanium model is £1300, apparently...
 
Or you could just save way more than £2000 by buying a nearly new, rather than brand new car. I bought a Focus 1.8 Zetec last year, 18 months old with only 2,500 miles on the clock, for £8995 from a Ford dealer. The brand new list price of this car is over £15,000. You do the maths...
 
RichardC27 said:
Or you could just save way more than £2000 by buying a nearly new, rather than brand new car. I bought a Focus 1.8 Zetec last year, 18 months old with only 2,500 miles on the clock, for £8995 from a Ford dealer. The brand new list price of this car is over £15,000. You do the maths...
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let some other poor sap take the depreciation on :)
 
Depreciation is only important if you intend to sell the car, personally I'd be keeping it as long as possible. With a second hand car there's always that nagging question, "why did the last owner sell it?"
 
Steep said:
Depreciation is only important if you intend to sell the car, personally I'd be keeping it as long as possible. With a second hand car there's always that nagging question, "why did the last owner sell it?"
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If you know the source of the car it's usually fairly clear. The alarm bells only ring for me when it's something like a 6 month old car with three owners and yes, I've seem a few of those....
 
RichardC27 said:
Or you could just save way more than £2000 by buying a nearly new, rather than brand new car. I bought a Focus 1.8 Zetec last year, 18 months old with only 2,500 miles on the clock, for £8995 from a Ford dealer. The brand new list price of this car is over £15,000. You do the maths...
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I've seen reports recently where new cars have been selling cheaper than nearly new.
As far as the scrappage system is concerned, I'd be haggling the best possible price first before letting on I had a car to trade in under the scrappage scheme.
 
nilagin said:
I've seen reports recently where new cars have been selling cheaper than nearly new.
As far as the scrappage system is concerned, I'd be haggling the best possible price first before letting on I had a car to trade in under the scrappage scheme.
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That doesn't work, when I sold new stuff we used to get people trying that all the time, it's one or t'other, not both ;)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
That doesn't work, when I sold new stuff we used to get people trying that all the time, it's one or t'other, not both ;)
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Not sure about now but Ford dealers, but years ago we (Ford Employees) used to negotiate the best deal we could get before announcing we were employees and claiming our discount. If the dealer wasn't prepared to honour the deal with the discount, we'd find one who would. It usually paid to find one further from the factories that wouldn't normally have employees living nearby. Dealers nearer the factories sell more cars due to proximity of employees so can afford to knock back sales, where as those further afield welcomed the sales.
 
nilagin said:
Not sure about now but Ford dealers, but years ago we (Ford Employees) used to negotiate the best deal we could get before announcing we were employees and claiming our discount. If the dealer wasn't prepared to honour the deal with the discount, we'd find one who would. It usually paid to find one further from the factories that wouldn't normally have employees living nearby. Dealers nearer the factories sell more cars due to proximity of employees so can afford to knock back sales, where as those further afield welcomed the sales.
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I'd imagine in your case Ford probably reimbursed the dealer for any extra discount given...
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I'd imagine in your case Ford probably reimbursed the dealer for any extra discount given...
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Dealers used to make out they didn't get reimbursed. They would even try to offer less on trade ins too.
Now our discount scheme is different. Instead of 18%-25% depending on the model it is now a set figure depending on the model. Starts at £250 on a basic Ka, which as a new model won't be heavily discounted by the dealer, so on that we'd lose out as it wouldn't even equate to any where near the 18% we would have got previously. :(
Galaxy is a good bet these have been heavily discounted plus we get a much better discount on top. Ford were advertising £5,000 off inclusive of the scrappage scheme on the Galaxy Edge. That's a public discount too not the Ford employee price.
With regards to the scrappage scheme being run in other countries, is anyone aware if this is funded jointly by the governments and manufacturers or is it just our government being tight and only stumping up half.
 
I think the scheme runs along similar lines in other countries, but it's more beneficial to the likes of Germany where they actually still have a national car industry, unlike the UK.:shake:

Btw, do Ford build cars in the UK nowadays, or is it just engines for Transit vans now?
 
nilagin said:
Dealers used to make out they didn't get reimbursed. They would even try to offer less on trade ins too.
Now our discount scheme is different. Instead of 18%-25% depending on the model it is now a set figure depending on the model. Starts at £250 on a basic Ka, which as a new model won't be heavily discounted by the dealer, so on that we'd lose out as it wouldn't even equate to any where near the 18% we would have got previously. :(
Galaxy is a good bet these have been heavily discounted plus we get a much better discount on top. Ford were advertising £5,000 off inclusive of the scrappage scheme on the Galaxy Edge. That's a public discount too not the Ford employee price.
With regards to the scrappage scheme being run in other countries, is anyone aware if this is funded jointly by the governments and manufacturers or is it just our government being tight and only stumping up half.
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i think we are now on the same scheme as you guys, not that anyone can actually afford anything new!
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Btw, do Ford build cars in the UK nowadays, or is it just engines for Transit vans now?
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No cars, just engines, gearboxes, radiators, steel wheels, car panels where I work, Transit vans and chassis at the moment but soon only the chassis.
 
Of course, you could just go to the scrappy, buy a £50-100 pound junker that still has a bit of MOT left n trade it in for the £2k discount...
 
chameleon said:
Of course, you could just go to the scrappy, buy a £50-100 pound junker that still has a bit of MOT left n trade it in for the £2k discount...
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Not really, you need to have owned the car for more than 12 months and it needs to be taxed and MOT'd....
 
chameleon said:
Of course, you could just go to the scrappy, buy a £50-100 pound junker that still has a bit of MOT left n trade it in for the £2k discount...
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You have to own the car a minimum of 12 months to qualify.
 
nilagin said:
No cars, just engines, gearboxes, radiators, steel wheels, car panels where I work, Transit vans and chassis at the moment but soon only the chassis.
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I wondered, there was a programme on BBC3 about Ford and that's what it said, I just couldn't believe it :shake:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I wondered, there was a programme on BBC3 about Ford and that's what it said, I just couldn't believe it :shake:
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When they closed the car production at Dagenham, Ford said that car production could return to Britain some day in the future, but I think the current economic climate has put paid to that ever happening. Even if Transit production were to cease, I don't think they would be replacing it with cars as it would require too much money for investment.
Mind you people keep saying the press shop and the toolroom where I work has only two years left, but they have been saying that for 8 yrs.:cuckoo:
 
Interesting thread. Now here is why I wouldn't have a diesel engined new car.
Assuming £2000 difference between a petrol cost and diesel cost, and a difference of mpg of about 18mpg, (45 petrol, 63 diesel), and an average mileage of 20000p.a., difference in fuel costs 96p/litre petrol, 1.07p/litre diesel, it would take 5 years to recoup the difference in purchase costs. 5 years of tractor driving just to break even, no thanks.
 
I've got a 3 year old Panda, that I got converted to LPG - 51p a litre and 45mpg on gas. About a 1/3 cheaper than my old diesel Corsa by my reckoning! :D :D
 
When I first looked at the fiat panda range the 1.2 didn't fall into the 35 tax bracket, but now it's been tweaked and does. There's only about a 10 mile per gallon difference between it and the diesel (43 v 53 in town) and about £1000 in price, wisemans analogy is still good at that.

I had a sit in one yesterday, just to see if a bfb like me would fit and it's surprisingly spacious though I pity anyone who has to sit behind me..
 
wisemen said:
Interesting thread. Now here is why I wouldn't have a diesel engined new car.
Assuming £2000 difference between a petrol cost and diesel cost, and a difference of mpg of about 18mpg, (45 petrol, 63 diesel), and an average mileage of 20000p.a., difference in fuel costs 96p/litre petrol, 1.07p/litre diesel, it would take 5 years to recoup the difference in purchase costs. 5 years of tractor driving just to break even, no thanks.
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Not always the case. I plan on getting a Mondeo Titanium X Sport. A Mondeo 2.2 TDCI is £350 cheaper than the 2.5 Petrol model.
The diesel is £65.00 per year cheaper on road tax and does 15mpg more.
Add to that I only use Tesco 99 octane petrol anyway which is only just cheaper than diesel by a couple of pence. The diesel would be the better option. Plus should I want to trade it in or sell it at a later date it's resale value would be higher.
 
The Fiat guy said that they (Fiat) had slowed production right down over the last few months because of the downturn, now the extra sales are stacking up and it will take about six weeks for delivery. My neighbour is having to wait ten weeks for his Nissan.
 
Steep said:
The Fiat guy said that they (Fiat) had slowed production right down over the last few months because of the downturn, now the extra sales are stacking up and it will take about six weeks for delivery. My neighbour is having to wait ten weeks for his Nissan.
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I was quoted 4 months for a Qashqai - and the dealer had sold all his demos so I would have had to buy one without driving it.

Honda was between 9 weeks (for a Jazz) and 14 weeks (for an Insight). If they are not producing the cars, I have no idea how they sell them.

Chris
 
Had a test drive and ordered a Panda today, twelve week wait.

tum te tum

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Steep said:
The Fiat guy said that they (Fiat) had slowed production right down over the last few months because of the downturn, now the extra sales are stacking up and it will take about six weeks for delivery. My neighbour is having to wait ten weeks for his Nissan.
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Fiat, along with Ford, are in dispute with the govt over the VAT content of their share of the £2000, which is why they are dragging their feet when it comes to deliveries of new cars involved in the scheme.
 
Could be it, though the guy showed me the only 2 cars left of their allocation due to begin building at the end of June, after that the factory apparently start a run of deisel models.

I had a sit in a 500 while in the showroom, damn that's a nice car and a lot bigger on the inside than it looks, if it wasn't so much more expensive I would have been swayed.
 
candlestick said:
I've got a 3 year old Panda, that I got converted to LPG - 51p a litre and 45mpg on gas. About a 1/3 cheaper than my old diesel Corsa by my reckoning! :D :D
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So at £4.67 a gallon for diesel V £2.31 for LPG a saving of £2.36 per gallon, how much was it to get the panda converted, i'm guessing around £1200 so that's roughly 23,000 miles before you get the cost of the gas conversion back , and that's assuming LPG stays lower than petrol for the next 3 years at 8000 miles per year.

I looked into it but the numbers just didn't add up to me unless I was prepared to ignore the gas conversion cost
 
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