Car safety features.

JohnC6

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I get the Which? magazine delivered each month and in this month's edition is a feature on car safety measures which are causing a lot of people a lot of problems. The article started with a couple of personal experiences. One lady said her Hyundai i20 constantly misreads speed limit signs telling her that a 30mph zone is 80mph..It, unnecessarily, corrects her steering as she crosses over centre lines when passing parked cars. Owners of MG4s reported lane-keep assist problems. MG has issued a software update .Hundreds of owner of many makes of cars reported to Which? that they have experienced lane-assist technology problems. In January, 1584 car owners who had Advanced Driving Assist Systems (ADAS) in their cars were contacted by Which? and most reported negative experiences. More than 50% turned off, at least, one of the features, at least, some of the time with 'speed assist' being the most often followed by lane-keep assist and they did so because they found it dangerous,annoying or distracting. There are four legally-mandated systems for new cars that EU member states have to comply with.They apply to Northern Ireland but not the UK yet but will be adopted here soon. However, most cars in the UK already have systems that comply so they can be driven here and in EU countries. The four requirements are.....speed assist - driver drowsiness and attention warning - braking and emergency lane keep -assist. The last two only to activate in a critically-dangerous situation..All four must activate, by default .ie come live, when the engine is started. European NCAP (New Car Assessment Programme) specifications, which aren't legal requirements, go further but manufacturers can choose a mix between the two systems. The more NCAP features added, the more points awarded but, for instance,lane-keep assist is not mandatory but points will be lost for not having it or for not having it activate by default when the engine starts. With many cars, it's just not possible to turn lane-keep assist off and maintain the emergency function on.

On this note I better add what I read about the 2023 Audi A6. It has been upgraded since but mainly internal cosmetics and camera-based traffic sign recognition is now standard across every model but no change.The Technology Pack includes additional equipment including a Bang & Olufsen Premium Sound System, multi-coloured extended LED interior lighting, 360-degree camera with top view, Park Assist with Parking aid plus and a Head-up display.. Nothing in relation to all the aforementioned problems,it seems.

Scroll down to the review by one driver..Michael. Note what Audi said about getting 'more NCAP points'. https://www.nationwidevehiclecontracts.co.uk/car-leasing/audi/a6/saloon/reviews

Back to Which? Quickie facts of their survey.

Speed assist-Turned off by 46% of drivers.

Lane-Keep asisst. 42% turn it off.

Automatic emergency braking- 34% turn it off.

Drowsiness/ Attention monitoring-32% turn it off.

Blind spot Monitoring-30% turn it off.

Technology is improving all the time but that's scant comfort for drivers who have current issues with all this AI technology .One car that came out very well is the top-end, all electric BMW i5 with a vast array of sensors, cameras and on-board computers. It's gone through extensive on-road testing to check out road markings how road markings vary and how signage is designed and positioned .The cost ranges from £68,000- 110,000, Cheaper cars or cars new to the British market can often trip up due to a lack of knowledge within the systems about our road system.
 
This is partly why I like the cars I have. The newest is 10 years old and it might get replaced this or next year with something around 3 years old or so. I'm hoping to avoid some if not all new tech particularly cars which have even basic things on a touch screen. Personally I think some of this stuff could be a distraction and should be either legislated away altogether or at least made less distracting.
 
at the end of the day these features will save lives but if people want to turn them off let them fill there boots
if fools think they can be faster and better than sensors and tech when the s*** hits the fan there deluded
 
Our car has most of these features and most are turned off. We do keep blind spot monitoring on as it's just a little light on the wing mirror and quite handy and the emergency braking which we haven't tested but doesn't cause us any issues when driving.

The campervan only has auto stop/start which annoyingly can't be turned off by default but is turned off as soon as I start the engine.
 
Our car has most of these features and most are turned off. We do keep blind spot monitoring on as it's just a little light on the wing mirror and quite handy and the emergency braking which we haven't tested but doesn't cause us any issues when driving.

The campervan only has auto stop/start which annoyingly can't be turned off by default but is turned off as soon as I start the engine.

doesn't surprise me you said that i would class you as one of the few i included in my above statement
 
at the end of the day these features will save lives but if people want to turn them off let them fill there boots
if fools think they can be faster and better than sensors and tech when the s*** hits the fan there deluded
tech often goes wrong. I wouldn't put too much faith in it.
I'd rather be an alert driver than a lazy one who relies on tech.

My previous car had automatic handbrake when the engine was turned off. My wife's car didn't. I borrowed the wife's car once to nip to the shop. Stopped the car turned off the engine and got out. The car started rolling backwards down the hill. It's very easy to become too reliant on tech.
 
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It's very easy to become too reliant on tech.
I agree.

On the other hand, old tech was new tech once and it stayed in the machine because it was useful. The piece of new tech that I find useful in my car, is the speed limiter. With a son-in-law who's a traffic officer, I think it would be especially awkward to be pulled over exceeding the speed limit! :naughty:
 
at the end of the day these features will save lives but if people want to turn them off let them fill there boots
if fools think they can be faster and better than sensors and tech when the s*** hits the fan there deluded
But, people are not fools. These systems are not foolproof. nor are they always helpful. Take lane assist, On some cars they are quite aggressive on trying to keep you in a lane, so when overtaking they can be hinderance. Speed assist from my experience can actually be dangerous, telling me the speed limits are faster than they are.
 
I agree.

On the other hand, old tech was new tech once and it stayed in the machine because it was useful. The piece of new tech that I find useful in my car, is the speed limiter. With a son-in-law who's a traffic officer, I think it would be especially awkward to be pulled over exceeding the speed limit! :naughty:
Speed limiters have been around for years.
 
Speed limiters have been around for years.
I know, but my now, ten year old car was the first car I owned that had one.
 
I agree.

On the other hand, old tech was new tech once and it stayed in the machine because it was useful. The piece of new tech that I find useful in my car, is the speed limiter. With a son-in-law who's a traffic officer, I think it would be especially awkward to be pulled over exceeding the speed limit! :naughty:

I agree that there is useful tech but you can turn the speed limiter on and off as you need it.

Anything that is forced on me and tries to stop me crossing a lane or prevents me from speeding up is getting in the way. What if I was crossing a lane or speeding up to avoid a collision with a child or another car?

Then there is tech for tech sake. Manufacturers put in things like auto stop start to please the bureaucrats like the EU but I really can't see it being very good for the engine and don't even get me started on automatic wipers, parking assist and bloody touch screens.
 
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If people cannot drive to the speed limit then they should NOT be on the road.
If people cannot leave a safe distance between themselves and the car in front then they should NOT be on the road.
If people cannot drive between two white lines then they should NOT be on the road.

These safety features make people drive much more recklessly as they mistakenly believe that these safety systems will prevent them from having an accident.
 
This is partly why I like the cars I have. The newest is 10 years old and it might get replaced this or next year with something around 3 years old or so. I'm hoping to avoid some if not all new tech particularly cars which have even basic things on a touch screen. Personally I think some of this stuff could be a distraction and should be either legislated away altogether or at least made less distracting.
The reason why the cars, that you would expect to be at the top end of reliabitiy charts,like Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar,languish half-way to two thirds down is mainly because the 'electronics' let them down. As ever, the exception is Toyota and Lexus (also Toyota) which consistently sit at the top of the charts.
 
tech often goes wrong. I wouldn't put too much faith in it.
I'd rather be an alert driver than a lazy one who relies on tech.

My previous car had automatic handbrake when the engine was turned off. My wife's car didn't. I borrowed the wife's car once to nip to the shop. Stopped the car turned off the engine and got out. The car started rolling backwards down the hill. It's very easy to become too reliant on tech.

^^ That.

I don't want lane assist, or drowsy alerts, or speed assist. I want my wipers to come on when I want them switched on. Same with my lights. I don't want a fog light to come on every time I turn the steering wheel slightly. Etc, etc

That's why my cars are 15 years old, 20 years old & 54 years old :)
 
My 6 year old Mazda 6 estate has all of these features, and I've never felt the need to disable any of them, they all work very well. I can override the safety distance, lane assist, speed, etc systems without too much effort albeit noticeable so it takes a conscious effort. The only one that annoys me sometimes is the emergency braking which sometimes is too quick to act when a car in front is turning too slowly round a corner. Otherwise it's all excellent (plus it has a HUD which I find superb). I am a big fan of Mazda, an under appreciated brand.
 
I get the Which? magazine delivered each month and in this month's edition is a feature on car safety measures which are causing a lot of people a lot of problems. The article started with a couple of personal experiences. One lady said her Hyundai i20 constantly misreads speed limit signs telling her that a 30mph zone is 80mph..It, unnecessarily, corrects her steering as she crosses over centre lines when passing parked cars. Owners of MG4s reported lane-keep assist problems. MG has issued a software update .Hundreds of owner of many makes of cars reported to Which? that they have experienced lane-assist technology problems. In January, 1584 car owners who had Advanced Driving Assist Systems (ADAS) in their cars were contacted by Which? and most reported negative experiences. More than 50% turned off, at least, one of the features, at least, some of the time with 'speed assist' being the most often followed by lane-keep assist and they did so because they found it dangerous,annoying or distracting. There are four legally-mandated systems for new cars that EU member states have to comply with.They apply to Northern Ireland but not the UK yet but will be adopted here soon. However, most cars in the UK already have systems that comply so they can be driven here and in EU countries. The four requirements are.....speed assist - driver drowsiness and attention warning - braking and emergency lane keep -assist. The last two only to activate in a critically-dangerous situation..All four must activate, by default .ie come live, when the engine is started. European NCAP (New Car Assessment Programme) specifications, which aren't legal requirements, go further but manufacturers can choose a mix between the two systems. The more NCAP features added, the more points awarded but, for instance,lane-keep assist is not mandatory but points will be lost for not having it or for not having it activate by default when the engine starts. With many cars, it's just not possible to turn lane-keep assist off and maintain the emergency function on.

On this note I better add what I read about the 2023 Audi A6. It has been upgraded since but mainly internal cosmetics and camera-based traffic sign recognition is now standard across every model but no change.The Technology Pack includes additional equipment including a Bang & Olufsen Premium Sound System, multi-coloured extended LED interior lighting, 360-degree camera with top view, Park Assist with Parking aid plus and a Head-up display.. Nothing in relation to all the aforementioned problems,it seems.

Scroll down to the review by one driver..Michael. Note what Audi said about getting 'more NCAP points'. https://www.nationwidevehiclecontracts.co.uk/car-leasing/audi/a6/saloon/reviews

Back to Which? Quickie facts of their survey.

Speed assist-Turned off by 46% of drivers.

Lane-Keep asisst. 42% turn it off.

Automatic emergency braking- 34% turn it off.

Drowsiness/ Attention monitoring-32% turn it off.

Blind spot Monitoring-30% turn it off.

Technology is improving all the time but that's scant comfort for drivers who have current issues with all this AI technology .One car that came out very well is the top-end, all electric BMW i5 with a vast array of sensors, cameras and on-board computers. It's gone through extensive on-road testing to check out road markings how road markings vary and how signage is designed and positioned .The cost ranges from £68,000- 110,000, Cheaper cars or cars new to the British market can often trip up due to a lack of knowledge within the systems about our road system.

This is a kind of bugbear of mine. When I first saw an advert for a car with lane keeping assist I thought "what ever happened to drive the road?"
As a driver I am supposed to be alert and mindful at all times so I have no huge issue with that monitor. I am however a great believer in driving to the conditions which no 'assist' mode is going to be able to do.
I do use adaptible cruise control but not in heavy or fast traffic, the number of times my car has slammed the brakes on because a car in the next lane slowed quickly means I simply don't trust it in fast traffic.
I drive a lot, more than most (less than many I'm sure) at about 1000 miles a week and can see the benefits but also the many downsides of relinquishing control to a dumb machine. Doing that actually makes you pay less attention to the road and so be more of a danger to others.
 
The reason why the cars, that you would expect to be at the top end of reliabitiy charts,like Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar,languish half-way to two thirds down is mainly because the 'electronics' let them down. As ever, the exception is Toyota and Lexus (also Toyota) which consistently sit at the top of the charts.

I'm not as up on cars as I used to be but I do know that Toyota fell way down the ratings after their top of the charts days. I don't know if they've recovered or not but I suppose the latest stats will tell or at least tell us what the position was 3 years ago. I think JD Power looks at 3 year old cars or at least they used to as I suppose they have to give cars at least some time to show how reliable they are. Whilst Toyota nosedived Peugeot went from being pretty appalling to well up at the top but again the latest stats will tell if they kept it up or not.

On the reliability of those new fangled driver aids... I posted some time back about the problems in China with cars driving into walls and bursting into flames and Chinese customers turning to non Chinese brands in an effort to stay alive but some will no doubt use the same dodgy Chinese components and software which is busy squishing and cooking customers in Chinese cars. I don't think this has been widely reported in the MSM or if it has I haven't seen it. I only stumbled across vids about this on Youtube because the algorithm recommended them to me. TBH it scared the Bejesus out of me. I expect / hope that the cars they ship abroad are better if that is possible but if going for something new and high tech I'd want to do a lot of homework first but frankly I just can't be bothered and will be sticking with as low tech as I can :D

Today I drove my 24 year old MX5.
 
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I'm not as up on cars as I used to be but I do know that Toyota fell way down the ratings after their top of the charts days. I don't know if they've recovered or not but I suppose the latest stats will tell or at least tell us what the position was 3 years ago. I think JD Power looks at 3 year old cars or at least they used to as I suppose they have to give cars at least some time to show how reliable they are. Whilst Toyota nosedived Peugeot went from being pretty appalling to well up at the top but again the latest stats will tell if they kept it up or not.

On the reliability of those new fangled driver aids... I posted some time back about the problems in China with cars driving into walls and bursting into flames and Chinese customers turning to non Chinese brands in an effort to stay alive but some will no doubt use the same dodgy Chinese components and software which is busy squishing and cooking customers in Chinese cars. I don't think this has been widely reported in the MSM or if it has I haven't seen it. I only stumbled across vids about this on Youtube because the algorithm recommended them to me. TBH it scared the Bejesus out of me. I expect / hope that the cars they ship abroad are better if that is possible but if going for something new and high tech I'd want to do a lot of homework first but frankly I just can't be bothered and will be sticking with as low tech as I can :D

Today I drove my 24 year old MX5.
I just checked and Toyota have been knocked off top place by Sabaru. In the list ,which I had to enlarge because the print is tiny, look at where Tesla sits .

March 2025 consumer report. https://www.consumerreports.org/car...who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
 
I just checked and Toyota have been knocked off top place by Sabaru. In the list ,which I had to enlarge because the print is tiny, look at where Tesla sits .

March 2025 consumer report. https://www.consumerreports.org/car...who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

I'm not interested in a Tesla but if I was I'd dig deeper as something came out about Tesla reliability a while back which was shocking but easy to understand in todays tribal lived truth post Musk buying Twitter world. I mention Twitter as Musk was switched from being a darling of the left to literal Hitler and some do seem to have Musk derangement syndrome. Apparently some reliability surveys influenced by politics are or were counting Tesla software updates which are free (or at least some appear to be) and numerous as recalls. Some updates could be reasonably seen as recalls (when they've got things wrong and are fixing an issue) and some may not be (they may be genuine updates or even upgrades) but the effect is that Tesla is sent spiraling down the reliability charts. If some surveys have been rigged then those surveys are arguably worthless so I'd want to dig into the details.
 
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On some cars they are quite aggressive on trying to keep you in a lane, so when overtaking they can be hinderance.
Try indicating?

All the lane keep assist systems I've tried turn off when the indicator is on. Pretty sure the highway code still advises indicating while overtaking.
 
I'm not interested in a Tesla but if I was I'd dig deeper as something came out about Tesla reliability a while back which was shocking but easy to understand in todays tribal lived truth post Musk buying Twitter world. I mention Twitter as Musk was switched from being a darling of the left to literal Hitler and some do seem to have Musk derangement syndrome. Apparently some reliability surveys influenced by politics are or were counting Tesla software updates which are free (or at least some appear to be) and numerous as recalls. Some updates could be reasonably seen as recalls (when they've got things wrong and are fixing an issue) and some may not be (they may be genuine updates or even upgrades) but the effect is that Tesla is sent spiraling down the reliability charts. If some surveys have been rigged then those surveys are arguably worthless so I'd want to dig into the details.
It's more a defect in the way stats are collected.

Traditionally, the only way for a manufacturer to fix a car is by a recall. So if you need to fix something, that's a recall. And recalls count against reliability because they should.

Now many firms supply over the air updates. Tesla do this FAR more than any other firm I know of (I get updates more than one a month. There's a much anticipated "holiday update" every Christmas).

We should probably stop punishing firms for continuous improvement.
 
But, people are not fools. These systems are not foolproof. nor are they always helpful. Take lane assist, On some cars they are quite aggressive on trying to keep you in a lane, so when overtaking they can be hinderance. Speed assist from my experience can actually be dangerous, telling me the speed limits are faster than they are.


Mrs Nod's lane assist "correction" is disabled when the appropriate indicator is used.
 
I've had various cars with these various features and most of them are useless. The Leaf had cruise control that would pile you into the back of stopped traffic as it didn't have the add on function to properly deal with it. If you didn't read the user manual you'd have no idea as it was traffic aware cruise so you'd assume it would stop and you'd have to nudge it to go. Nope. It will just realise too late it had to stop and crash if you let it. A few people have had accidents due to not understanding how rubbish it is and that it was little better than dumb cruise control. It also did weird things when you followed a truck. If you used the active steering it would ping pong between the lines like a drunk.

AEB was ok. Had that on a few cars and it did prove useful once when some dipstick decided to turn only just in front of me for no reason. It stamped on the brakes harder than I would have done.

Blind spot mirror function. Brilliant when it's well implemented. Useless when it isn't. The Leaf it worked really well. Handy on roundabouts and it would notice when someone was basically sitting just out of sight. I had a vauxhall after and it was frankly garbage. It would only go off when the other vehicle was next to you and only if there was a certain speed difference. It randomly didn't work at all for weeks at a time until you turned it off and on again as well.

I now have none of this crap at all. It's far better. Nothing beeping, bonging, yanking at the wheel or generally making situations worse.

AEB is probably the only system I would choose to have but again it's compensated generally by assuming the worst from everyone then you aren't far wrong.
 
If people cannot drive to the speed limit then they should NOT be on the road.
If people cannot leave a safe distance between themselves and the car in front then they should NOT be on the road.
If people cannot drive between two white lines then they should NOT be on the road.

These safety features make people drive much more recklessly as they mistakenly believe that these safety systems will prevent them from having an accident.
what an absolute load of crap , people do not rely on these safety features to avoid being good drivers such drivel.
what these safety features do is "step in" to assist when things go sideways like they often do , people whined about ABS years ago
now no decent car owner would refuse that saying they can do a better job, also what about the less vulnerable in society who just need a little help
motorbility drivers or older people
 
what an absolute load of crap , people do not rely on these safety features to avoid being good drivers such drivel.
what these safety features do is "step in" to assist when things go sideways like they often do , people whined about ABS years ago
Yes, and IIRC it was a number of professional drivers who spoke of 'cadence braking' being better......who of us here remembers how to do it and did you ever have to!

There have always been resistance to change where safety is concerned, the Hans Restraint was poo, pooed by many/some in Motorsport and one tragic one I recall was a NASCAR driver who was outspoken about not needing one! He tragically lost his life in an accident, as a result of the head injury Hans was designed to mitigate :(
now no decent car owner would refuse that saying they can do a better job, also what about the less vulnerable in society who just need a little help
motorbility drivers or older people
 
I'm surprised people turn off blindspot monitoring since it's not at all intrusive plus it's an optional extra on a lot of cars so you'd think if people are paying for it they'd be using.
I wouldn't buy a car without blindspot monitoring as I find it incredibly useful just to have an extra pair of eyes looking out for me although some of the other features mentioned are the reason I have a 14 year old car, it has a good level of tech but has no lane assist warning, no auto stop/start, no speed warnings, no e-brake, no touchscreen controls etc.
 
Yes, and IIRC it was a number of professional drivers who spoke of 'cadence braking' being better......who of us here remembers how to do it and did you ever have to!
Yes and yes.

I came across it when I worked on a local newspaper and went to a police press day with a reporter. The police instructor who was demonstrating told us that the best way to make use of it was to make it your default and I did so. It's got me out of a few "unsticky" moments over the years.
 
It's more a defect in the way stats are collected.

Traditionally, the only way for a manufacturer to fix a car is by a recall. So if you need to fix something, that's a recall. And recalls count against reliability because they should.

Now many firms supply over the air updates. Tesla do this FAR more than any other firm I know of (I get updates more than one a month. There's a much anticipated "holiday update" every Christmas).

We should probably stop punishing firms for continuous improvement.

I have no problem with software updates to correct faults being regarded as fault fixes and included in reliability surveys and indeed they should be but if Tesla is indeed singled out for special treatment for political reasons and software updates which are updates or upgrades rather than fault fixes are included in the stats as faults then I'm definitely against that.
 
Love my Honda CRV just enough tech to make for a enjoyable comfy drive without making me over confident
 
If people cannot drive to the speed limit then they should NOT be on the road.
If people cannot leave a safe distance between themselves and the car in front then they should NOT be on the road.
If people cannot drive between two white lines then they should NOT be on the road.

These safety features make people drive much more recklessly as they mistakenly believe that these safety systems will prevent them from having an accident.
No one should 'drive to the limit'. It is a limit. "Within the speed limit" would be a better phrase.
 
Neither of our cars have much of the tech described above....our 9 year old Golf has collision alert but not much else.

Reading the above it struck me why a lot of people drive in the middle lane nowadays, the lane assist. I've experienced it in a lot of hire cars, in some it is bearable and in others quite intolerable...

As an owner of a 14 year old Saab I know where I would rather be inside in the event of any collision.
 
We've hired two cars with "safety features" which annoyed us so much, we won't ever buy one! Hopefully, my twelve year old (low mileage) car will last me until I can drive no more!
 
The new owner of my car clearly forgot their pen when it came to ticking the options list. Doesn't bother me and I suppose it's less to go wrong.

Electronic Stability Assist along with the ABS is the sort of safety feature that is essential in my opinion. The car can control individual brakes, the driver can't. It's invaluable under certain circumstances, even when driving carefully.

As for Lane-Keep Assist, if you need this then we all need to say a silent prayer for cyclists.
 
what an absolute load of crap , people do not rely on these safety features to avoid being good drivers such drivel.
what these safety features do is "step in" to assist when things go sideways like they often do , people whined about ABS years ago
now no decent car owner would refuse that saying they can do a better job, also what about the less vulnerable in society who just need a little help
motorbility drivers or older people

I mean, do you think people moaned 40 odd years ago with ABS breaking, PAS etc. becoming common place??

Why would you turn off stop/start? There is nothing wrong with lane assist, people do lose concentration and drift a little, this alerts them. I have it, it can be be annoying but it only kicks in when I don't indicate when moving lanes. It does seem a little sensitive when it warns about me hitting car in front but I do drive a little more 'aggressive' than it likes.

All this tech does is make things a little safer as we are human and do make mistake, lose concentration
 
Which, again, raises the question of whether cyclists and powered vehicles should continue to use the same road surfaces. The official statistics provide facts that are worth considering...

Those stats appear to show that cycling is now safer.

However, any look at the question should look at the big picture. There are other factors to be taken into consideration. Pollution, public health, for example.
 
I mean, do you think people moaned 40 odd years ago with ABS breaking, PAS etc. becoming common place??

Why would you turn off stop/start? There is nothing wrong with lane assist, people do lose concentration and drift a little, this alerts them. I have it, it can be be annoying but it only kicks in when I don't indicate when moving lanes. It does seem a little sensitive when it warns about me hitting car in front but I do drive a little more 'aggressive' than it likes.

All this tech does is make things a little safer as we are human and do make mistake, lose concentration
yep spot on but the luddites don't get that
and most western countries are run by old men
 
Electronic Stability Control and ABS are designed to assist for circumstances beyond your control.

Speed Assist, Lane-Keep Assist, Automatic Emergency Braking, Drowsiness/Attention monitoring, Blind spot Monitoring etc are all for things within your control. That's the key difference.

There is also a difference between 'enhancements' (such as PAS, torque vectoring, brake wash, auto wipers/headlights etc) and 'assists'. I'm not against new tech if it enhances or improves your driving experience, however, many of the above "assists" whilst have most likely prevented many an accident, may also encourage bad habits/behaviour; which is a valid argument in my opinion.
 
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