Car park fine for being 'stationary'

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Steve

Steve

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I got a car park fine for entering a car park, being 'stationary' there and then leaving. Turns out staying in your car and being stationary is classed as parking even if you don't occupy a space.

I made a an unemotional and reasoned appeal:


appeal letter by SteveGam, on Flickr


Okay, maybe a bit OTT, but I was annoyed. Anyway lost the appeal.

I've shown copies of their correspondence and here showing the whole sorry story.... http://lordjook.weebly.com/

Not sure exactly what Excel Parking 'excel' at......
 
Got to say, sorry Steve but I agree with Ricardo, over half an hour stationary in a pay & display car park, is 'parking' regardless of whether you were in the car or not and regardless of whether you were occupying a designated space. I assumed when I opened this thread that you meant you had stopped briefly, perhaps to let someone in or out of the car, not stayed there for half an hour. None of us like having to pay for parking, nor do many of us like these fines from private companies, but you were parked and should have paid at the time, or got the wife to.
 
Sorry, but you were in the wrong, and I am afraid that playing the disabled card makes it even worse!
 
Agreed to all of the above, I'm sure the car park has the rules posted for everyone to read and you've had plenty time to do that. If you weren't stopped in a bay then you were causing an obstruction for 30 minutes which is worse.
 
Yv said:
I assumed when I opened this thread that you meant you had stopped briefly, perhaps to let someone in or out of the car, not stayed there for half an hour.
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Me too - it's a shame that there aren't more facilities for the disabled who need parking but if you use what is available you have to accept the limitations and rules :(
 
It annoys me that people play the disabled card for something clearly wrong. Having a disabled badge allows you to park closer and often for free. It seems you now also want to park wherever you want as well. I can understand stopping briefly to let someone out but to wait longer than that then you should be in a bay like everyone else.

As mentioned your wife could have paid before leaving the car park.

I do however sympathise in your frustration when people not displaying a badge park in disabled bays, it annoys me too.
 
I agree with Ricardo and the others, you weren't "stationary", you were parked, just not in an official bay.
 
Well was hoping for a bit of sympathy but never mind. Yes I was wrong and justifiably lost my appeal.

Just to address one point though. If you saw the empty void that is the Peel Centre car park you would know its emptiness of customers and cars makes it virtually impossible to cause an obstruction.

And I resent the accusation of 'playing the disabled card' I really wish I wasn't disabled and there was no 'card to play'
 
I think everyone sympathises with your disabled state Steve, just not what you did - the 'disabled card' comment was and is out of order :)
 
Doesn't matter what happened. Appeal to POPLA with a not genuine estimate of loss.... Wins every time. Did they include a POPLA code with the rejection letter? If you're out of time wait for them to take you to court. They lose on non GPEOL on a regular basis. Also search Pepipoo on the Peel centre and the Moneysaving expert site in the parking fines section. You can also appeal to the landowner to drop the charge.

If you did pay the money then go to the parking prankster blog as there is a method to get it back if you've naively paid due to the nature of these invoices.

They've only lost £1.30. Maybe a few quid for the DVLA details. Nothing more.

Plus if they use ANPR and you do drive off and drive back it will also count it as one stay as the ANPR systems are rubbish so in future you can have fun dropping her off. Going elsewhere and returning. ANPR system have also been called into question in court as they do not offer any proper synchronisation methods between the local time and the remote time so they cannot prove what time you were actually there.

Bluebadges mean nothing on private property so you aren't able to use it to park for free unless it explicitly says so. Check with the council as to where the nearest free disabled parking is near there and park there in future while the Mrs idles in Hobbeycraft :)
 
Please explain to me why disabled people expect their parking to be free. You are disabled, and get preferential parking spaces, close to the shop and usually larger then anybody else's. Then you moan because you have to pay for it just like everybody else.

I have no sympathy. You parked, didn't pay and should pay the fine.
 
gramps said:
I think everyone sympathises with your disabled state Steve, just not what you did - the 'disabled card' comment was and is out of order :)
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Thanks for the comment Gramps. Totally understand. I think I maybe a bit blinkered in my views sometimes so perhaps need a 'reality check' every now and then.

srichards said:
Doesn't matter what happened. Appeal to POPLA with a not genuine estimate of loss.... Wins every time. Did they include a POPLA code with the rejection letter? If you're out of time wait for them to take you to court. They lose on non GPEOL on a regular basis. Also search Pepipoo on the Peel centre and the Moneysaving expert site in the parking fines section. You can also appeal to the landowner to drop the charge.

If you did pay the money then go to the parking prankster blog as there is a method to get it back if you've naively paid due to the nature of these invoices.

They've only lost £1.30. Maybe a few quid for the DVLA details. Nothing more.

Plus if they use ANPR and you do drive off and drive back it will also count it as one stay as the ANPR systems are rubbish so in future you can have fun dropping her off. Going elsewhere and returning. ANPR system have also been called into question in court as they do not offer any proper synchronisation methods between the local time and the remote time so they cannot prove what time you were actually there.

Bluebadges mean nothing on private property so you aren't able to use it to park for free unless it explicitly says so. Check with the council as to where the nearest free disabled parking is near there and park there in future while the Mrs idles in Hobbeycraft :)
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Thanks for the advice Suz. They did include a POPLA reference but said that if I appealed to them then I would no longer qualify for the £60 early pay and would have to pay £100 instead plus costs. So I paid the £60. But I will look at the other advice.
 
Steve said:
And I resent the accusation of 'playing the disabled card' I really wish I wasn't disabled and there was no 'card to play'
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I am sorry that you have taken offence, but you are the one who mentioned it in your appeal, so you most definately did "play the card"

There is a huge amount of abuse of the Blue Badge system, and the rules are that it is for the benefit of the holder only, i.e. you, so it shouldn't have even come into the appeal in the first place.
 
Don't be so pedantic. Who cares what it's called.
The fact remains the parking company has a right to request the money due.
 
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Tigger.ufo said:
I am sorry that you have taken offence, but you are the one who mentioned it in your appeal, so you most definately did "play the card"
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Heather is correct imo. I don't say you shouldn't have stopped to wait for your wife especially now you've mentioned the car park was pretty empty but more than a couple of minutes and you should have parked and paid. The disabled argument just isn't valid since you didn't intend to leave the vehicle and you did yourself no favours adding it to your appeal.
It's not the end of the world and next time I'm sure you'll either move on or park and pay, it will be cheaper in the long run.
 
neil_g said:
Was discussed the other day, you can't just ignore them these days. You have to go down the popla route if you want to get off.
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Sure you can.

Personally, I would pay the amount which I would have been charged for a ticket and no more. They have no authority to issue fines and a charge of £60 is nonsense and unenforceable as they have not suffered a loss of £60 - only the amount the parking would have cost.

ecoleman said:
Don't be so pedantic. Who cares what it's called.
The fact remains the parking company has a right to request the money due.
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Exactly that. They have a right to the normal fee for parking and no more. Perhaps it is pedantic but a parking charge notice is not a fine.

EDIT:

No criminal offence has been committed, therefore, if this were ever to go to court, it would have to be dealt with as a civil matter. The parking company cannot claim that the OP owes the £60 charge as there was never any agreement to pay it. All they can ask for is the parking fee which they have lost out on. The OP admits to being in the car park for half an hour, therefore he is liable to pay for half an hour's worth of parking and nothing more.

Whilst I don't condone parking without paying, I most certainly do not condone parking companies making these ridiculous charges. They work on fear and bullying as most people will pay up without arguing for fear of legal action.


Steve.
 
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I always wondered why disabled parking was (is) free.. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Sure, get the best and widest spaces, but why shouldn't you have to pay like everyone else.. A lot of people always bang on about equal rights.. Doesn't sound very equal to me..

Anyway, that's a different thread I suspect.


ecoleman said:
Please explain to me why disabled people expect their parking to be free. You are disabled, and get preferential parking spaces, close to the shop and usually larger then anybody else's. Then you moan because you have to pay for it just like everybody else.

I have no sympathy. You parked, didn't pay and should pay the fine.
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Steep said:
Agreed to all of the above, I'm sure the car park has the rules posted for everyone to read and you've had plenty time to do that. If you weren't stopped in a bay then you were causing an obstruction for 30 minutes which is worse.
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Not so, if he's still in the car he can move it if required, so he wouldn't be causing an obstruction. Plus by not parking in a bay he is leaving them free for people needing one.
My father-in-law is disabled and many a time I've taken him for hospital appointments or pick him up from hospitals. I always "wait" in the car park aisles until he's ready and then drive around to the pick up point. This leaves parking spaces free for the people that need it and also leaves the pick up point free where some people like to park and wait for ages.
 
nilagin said:
Not so, if he's still in the car he can move it if required, so he wouldn't be causing an obstruction. Plus by not parking in a bay he is leaving them free for people needing one.
My father-in-law is disabled and many a time I've taken him for hospital appointments or pick him up from hospitals. I always "wait" in the car park aisles until he's ready and then drive around to the pick up point. This leaves parking spaces free for the people that need it and also leaves the pick up point free where some people like to park and wait for ages.
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You don't wait that way to leave spaces free for others though do you....you do it so you don't have to pay to park ;)
 
viv1969 said:
You don't wait that way to leave spaces free for others though do you....you do it so you don't have to pay to park ;)
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Invariably there are no free spaces anyway. The father in law can pay if he likes, he gets the lift for free as it is. :)
I very rarely stay long in car parks anyway, 5-10 minutes at most. When I do park and pay, I usually pass the ticket on to someone else anyway, depending on the car park they have anything from 50 to 110 minutes left on the ticket.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
I am sorry that you have taken offence, but you are the one who mentioned it in your appeal, so you most definately did "play the card"

There is a huge amount of abuse of the Blue Badge system, and the rules are that it is for the benefit of the holder only, i.e. you, so it shouldn't have even come into the appeal in the first place.
Click to expand...

I felt my disability WAS relevant to the appeal. Before becoming disabled, I would have happily parked anywhere and gone into the shops. Since becoming disabled I am SOMETIMES unable to get out of my car and walk the distance to the shops (even if it is one of those lovely huge spaces right next to the door). I made it clear in my appeal that when feeling able, I park and pay.
So my change of behaviour in sometimes waiting in the car is solely as a result of my disability. Therefore I see it as relevant to the appeal. I accept and acknowledge that I went over the top in my letter, but I still resent your accusation that it was playing a disability card.
 
but what stopped you parking in one of the many vacant spaces and having your wife pay before she went to the shops ? , or for that matter parking in a disabled space and displaying your blue badge ?

I am sympathetic to your disability (my sister was in a wheel chair for many years) but I have little sympathy for the argument that you shouldn't have to pay because you were stationary but not in a bay
 
Just sometimes, as moderators, instead of having to react to something on the forum, we take pre-emptive actions based on a mix of gut instinct and past experience. This is one of those times. This thread isn't going to benefit anyone and has a high potential to end in tears before bedtime for someone, so the door is closing.
 
Sympathetic to the disability, but I don't see it as relevant to the appeal.
Actually, it's relevant due to your reasoning of not parking up and paying...but it's not actually relevant to what should have happened.
Sorry Steve, as much as I hate parking companies and I too would feel bloody annoyed like you (And would prefer to get one over on them too), going by the book you should have paid.

The 'appeal' process with a private parking charge is useless.
I've had one before from McDonalds for staying over the time allotted, I was actually still in McDonalds, buying more drinks and chatting....that's by the by though. I ignored it (as was the correct way to deal with them at the time), and nothing more came of it.
I hate their bullying and over the top scaremongering tactics. It's not in the interests of getting everyone to 'play fair' it's money, that's all it boils down to.
I'm assuming that you were nabbed by ANPR (I didn't click the link to read the letters), on entry and exit, timed and caught bang to rights.

Here's one for the hypothetical crew......what if you had decided to drive around the car park for half an hour?
What if you'd decided to do it slowly?
I've often thought this when I've dropped off / picked up on double yellows etc (Where it's been necessary).
I wonder if I was to be nabbed by a council camera, or a traffic warden even, could I keep the vehicle moving at a very slow pace....At what speed are you considered parked? I know a slow moving vehicle is 5mph (on A roads)....what about parking?
 
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