Car insurance

[redddraggon]

I'm confused by it all :shrug:

So I'm 26 nearly 27, had my driving license three years, (I've been mainly driving my parents car chauffering them around), no claims or convictions, but zero NCD due to be only the named driver. I've put Metallurgist as my profession and I'll soon have a PhD.

So I got an email through Aviva going on about their being £198 for 10% of their customers, so I wasn't expecting £198, but maybe £1000 a year for a 2012 Punto.

I go through the Aviva calculator thing and it wants over £5000 a year! I've got myself a bloody good job for a "first proper job" but how can someone afford insurance that expensive? By the time I've paid tax/NI/rent/council tax/bills/food/fuel out of my £25K a year I'd not have enough for insurance.

What the hell :shrug:

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

I'm confused by it all :shrug:

So I'm 26 nearly 27, had my driving license three years, (I've been mainly driving my parents car chauffering them around), no claims or convictions, but zero NCD due to be only the named driver. I've put Metallurgist as my profession and I'll soon have a PhD.

So I got an email through Aviva going on about their being £198 for 10% of their customers, so I wasn't expecting £198, but maybe £1000 a year for a 2012 Punto.

I go through the Aviva calculator thing and it wants over £5000 a year! I've got myself a bloody good job for a "first proper job" but how can someone afford insurance that expensive? By the time I've paid tax/NI/rent/council tax/bills/food/fuel out of my £25K a year I'd not have enough for insurance.

What the hell :shrug:

There must be something about your profile that makes you not part of Aviva's target market, so they price you high. They don't expect you to pay that much for it, they've deemed you non-profitable so don't want your business.

However, another insurer, will probably assess you as profitable based on their own criteria and be much cheaper.

 

[Krisstiffer]

"Metallurgist" - they probably think that means you're in a heavy metal band and have applied "entertainment industry" loading onto the premium

Maybe the comparison sites will give you a wider range of options - some of which aren't the equivalent of highway robbery..........

 

[Garry Edwards]

There must be something about your profile that makes you not part of Aviva's target market, so they price you high. They don't expect you to pay that much for it, they've deemed you non-profitable so don't want your business.

However, another insurer, will probably assess you as profitable based on their own criteria and be much cheaper.

As above. They don't want your business so price themselves out. This is the normal and correct way of saying "No", if they actually refused you you would be obliged to tell other potential insurers that you had had a policy refused, which would cause you massive problems.

Just shop around.

 

[redddraggon]

TBH I'm not sure why they wouldn't want my business I wouldn't say I was a liability? In three years of driving I've not had any incidents or tickets?

Admiral quotes around £1000 if I pay up front (which doesn't sound too bad when my mate, who lives nearby, pays that upfront with 2 yrs NCB), if I want to pay monthly it's about £120 a month though!

I guess for the first year I'm going to have to take the hit, save up quite a bit in my first year of work and then pay annually from then on. I'm going to be paying more on insurance than petrol :shrug:

The next issue is "work trips", I imagine I'll have to travel with work now and again, but most of the travelling would abroad I guess (bus/train to manchester airport so no car), so how would rare work related car trips affect the insurance?

 

[Willid1]

so how would rare work related car trips affect the insurance?

Most car policies cover driving too and from your normal place of employment.

What that means when you are traveling to other sites you would have to ask.

My wife uses our car while at work - travelling between offices and visits to clients, but not classed as a commercial traveller - and this is covered. I think it's class 2 business use. Not all policies cover this, had to be careful when changing companies a few years back to make sure this was covered when getting quotes.

HTH

David

 

[onomatopoeia]

The next issue is "work trips", I imagine I'll have to travel with work now and again, but most of the travelling would abroad I guess (bus/train to manchester airport so no car), so how would rare work related car trips affect the insurance?

At my age insurers tend to bung on B1 (or whatever it is - business travel to meetings etc, but not carrying samples of product) for no charge, when I've asked - I think I've made 3 work journeys apart from the daily commute in 20 years though. One one occasion it was an extra tenner on the policy. Might be different for you. If your employer expects you to use your personal car for business travel they should cover the cost or provide a hire vehicle.

My renewal this year is sitting on my desk. £236. That's fully comp, protected no claims, unlimited miles etc for my daily driver, which is group 20 on the 20 group scheme. And it's down 20% on last year. No comparing meerkats for me, nor shall I be troubling the annoying singing bloke either as I'm staying with the same insurer. Not even going to ask anyone else.

 

[Garry Edwards]

TBH I'm not sure why they wouldn't want my business I wouldn't say I was a liability? In three years of driving I've not had any incidents or tickets?

Admiral quotes around £1000 if I pay up front (which doesn't sound too bad when my mate, who lives nearby, pays that upfront with 2 yrs NCB), if I want to pay monthly it's about £120 a month though!

I guess for the first year I'm going to have to take the hit, save up quite a bit in my first year of work and then pay annually from then on. I'm going to be paying more on insurance than petrol :shrug:

The next issue is "work trips", I imagine I'll have to travel with work now and again, but most of the travelling would abroad I guess (bus/train to manchester airport so no car), so how would rare work related car trips affect the insurance?

I'm not saying that you're a bad risk, what I am saying is that they probably don't specialise in people like you or cars like yours.

Different insurers insure different types of risk, it's often as simple as that. For example, my youngest son has an old Mark 2 Landrover. Quotes on that ranged from under £200 to over £1600, with the lowest being a specialist in classic cars.

 

[redddraggon]

Most car policies cover driving too and from your normal place of employment.

That's the quotes I've gone for

What that means when you are traveling to other sites you would have to ask.

My company only has one site in the UK, the rest are in the USA, Germany, Italy, Eastern Europe and China so I don't think I'll be regularly working on other sites. However my company produces equipment that most tyre manufacturers use (apart from the French ones I think) and part of my job will be determining why equipments fails (welder error or user conditions) and I imagine there's going to be far more international trips than domestic!

At my age insurers tend to bung on B1 (or whatever it is - business travel to meetings etc, but not carrying samples of product) for no charge, when I've asked - I think I've made 3 work journeys apart from the daily commute in 20 years though. One one occasion it was an extra tenner on the policy. Might be different for you. If your employer expects you to use your personal car for business travel they should cover the cost or provide a hire vehicle.

My renewal this year is sitting on my desk. £236. That's fully comp, protected no claims, unlimited miles etc for my daily driver, which is group 20 on the 20 group scheme. And it's down 20% on last year. No comparing meerkats for me, nor shall I be troubling the annoying singing bloke either as I'm staying with the same insurer. Not even going to ask anyone else.

£236! I had an email from Aviva today going about how they insure 10% of their clients for £198 and that was I why went for a quote from them. I wasn't expecting £198, but £5000, what the hell!

I'm not saying that you're a bad risk, what I am saying is that they probably don't specialise in people like you or cars like yours.

I would have thought Aviva to have been a big average insurance company with regards to price (close to the minimum but not necessarily the minimum) bearing in mind a newish Punto is no Supercar :shrug:

I spoke to my dad on the phone tonight and he won't use Aviva anymore, I think he was with Norwich Union for years until they rebranded/were bought out, as they are too expensive now.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

That's the quotes I've gone for



My company only has one site in the UK, the rest are in the USA, Germany, Italy, Eastern Europe and China so I don't think I'll be regularly working on other sites. However my company produces equipment that most tyre manufacturers use (apart from the French ones I think) and part of my job will be determining why equipments fails (welder error or user conditions) and I imagine there's going to be far more international trips than domestic!



£236! I had an email from Aviva today going about how they insure 10% of their clients for £198 and that was I why went for a quote from them. I wasn't expecting £198, but £5000, what the hell!



I would have thought Aviva to have been a big average insurance company with regards to price (close to the minimum but not necessarily the minimum) bearing in mind a newish Punto is no Supercar :shrug:

I spoke to my dad on the phone tonight and he won't use Aviva anymore, I think he was with Norwich Union for years until they rebranded/were bought out, as they are too expensive now.

Again, they're too expensive for some, but not for others, depends on lots of factors. Also, check the cover, Aviva is a 5* Defaqto rated insurer. Their insurance covers as standard what a lot of other companies charge for.

Disclaimer: I work for Aviva on the IT side of things on the Life side of the business.

 

[redddraggon]

Again, they're too expensive for some, but not for others, depends on lots of factors. Also, check the cover, Aviva is a 5* Defaqto rated insurer. Their insurance covers as standard what a lot of other companies charge for.

Disclaimer: I work for Aviva on the IT side of things on the Life side of the business.

My dad was with Norwich Union for about 40 years and it was about the change to Aviva that he switched. My oldest sister (lives in Norwich, around Bowthorpe) has kids around my age who all worked for Norwich Union/Aviva and they couldn't get him a reasonable quote. Who are Aviva aiming for as their client?

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

My dad was with Norwich Union for about 40 years and it was about the change to Aviva that he switched. My oldest sister (lives in Norwich, around Bowthorpe) has kids around my age who all worked for Norwich Union/Aviva and they couldn't get him a reasonable quote. Who are Aviva aiming for as their client?

No idea, I don't work in pricing.

I know people who get really good quotes from us, and others that can't. I don't have my contents through us as they were expensive for me this year, but not last year. So something about the change in house impacted my premium.

So many factors are used in insurance now that it's really hard to say who the insurers are targetting, there could be a single thing in your profile that throws the premium either up or down, depending on the insurer. It's impossible to work out really.

Just shows how important it is to shop around at renewal time, because a factor this year that makes one company the most expensive, might change by next year and make them cheaper.

 

[skd]

I've never paid more than £750 for my insurance since the day I passed my test. (8 years)

Right now I pay £405 fully comp with a modified 7 seater Zafira.

I have been with the same insurance company for 6 years and every renewal them come out on top by a few hundreds quid.

Look for a company called Adrian flux they specialise in young drivers, classic cars, modified & performance cars

 

[srichards]

Try the meerkat and direct line too.

Is there another way of describing your profession which is more generic than metallurgist? Might be worth talking to a broker as they will know whether there is a more low risk occupation which is suitable.

 

[f1charlie]

What about adding one of your parents as a named driver? That works at reducing the premium for younger drivers, although I don't know at what age that stops having an effect.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What about adding one of your parents as a named driver? That works at reducing the premium for younger drivers, although I don't know at what age that stops having an effect.

The danger with that is the insurers (and the Police) may see it as "Fronting" which is illegal.

This is when the second named (younger) driver actually uses the car most of the time.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-fronting

So using a "low risk" person as main driver can lead to the policy being cancelled and charges of driving uninsured. In case of an accident involving injuries this climbs up the prosecution ladder.

Not a sensible suggestion

Shop around

Steve

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

The danger with that is the insurers (and the Police) may see it as "Fronting" which is illegal.

This is when the second named (younger) driver actually uses the car most of the time.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-fronting

So using a "low risk" person as main driver can lead to the policy being cancelled and charges of driving uninsured. In case of an accident involving injuries this climbs up the prosecution ladder.

Not a sensible suggestion

Shop around

Steve

Fronting is when you get someone else to be main driver, not a named driver.. Adding a named driver sometimes brings your premium down, nothing illegal about that.

 

[redddraggon]

The danger with that is the insurers (and the Police) may see it as "Fronting" which is illegal.

This is when the second named (younger) driver actually uses the car most of the time.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-fronting

So using a "low risk" person as main driver can lead to the policy being cancelled and charges of driving uninsured. In case of an accident involving injuries this climbs up the prosecution ladder.

Not a sensible suggestion

Shop around

Steve

From what I read of f1charlie's comment I'd be the main driver and my parent being a named driver, which is how I've already been doing the quotes already.

The car is currently my parents, with my dad the main driver and I'm the named driver, when they give me the car in September I'll be the main driver and my father as a named driver.

 

[Krisstiffer]

Fronting is where the parent is the primary driver on the policy and the new driver is a named driver but in reality is the main user of the vehicle. As you say a dim view is taken of this.

There's nothing wrong with a new primary driver having the policy in their name and then having a parent as a named driver on their policy. Think this is what is being suggested here though have no idea if it works as a money saving exercise.

 

[Digitalize]

The danger with that is the insurers (and the Police) may see it as "Fronting" which is illegal.

This is when the second named (younger) driver actually uses the car most of the time.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-fronting

So using a "low risk" person as main driver can lead to the policy being cancelled and charges of driving uninsured. In case of an accident involving injuries this climbs up the prosecution ladder.

Not a sensible suggestion

Shop around

Steve

You've completely missed what he said there, helps to read.

Putting parents as named drivers can help, don't think it affects mine much though.

Aviva were cheapest for me, 19, 2 years NCD, A* postcode on driveway, on an E91 320D M Sport, Fully Comp - £780. My first year at 17 I paid £2400 on a 1.2 Fiesta.

You've bought a typical first car which doesn't help either, usually things like estates are cheaper as they have lower crash ratings than young person cars. Also there's no real proof you've actually driven before other than learning. It's the fact you have 0 NCD at such a high age yet have held a licence which is probably putting things up.

Try using just a comparison place like GoCompare/MoneySupermarket.

 

[Flightphoto]

Don't forget your location makes a difference aswell, I own a 2.5v6 X-type, my history is 4 years NC, had an accident which wasn't my fault luckily but that still adds £20 apparently due to the admin fees, I pay fully comp of £640 paid up front with Adrian Flux - now, if I were to put my old address which was a penthouse in Ocean village in Southampton, I would be looking at £1600 for the year with the same car and history, there are also extra perks which cheapen things, being married, a home owner removes around £60 for the year and parking it on the drive and/or being in a concrete garage also helps

 

[Flightphoto]

Another factor is your car's age, NCAP ratings also have a knock on effect in regard to insurance premiums, basically if your car is valued at less than £2000 it will be more expensive than a newer car!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You've completely missed what he said there, helps to read.

Putting parents as named drivers can help, don't think it affects mine much though.

Aviva were cheapest for me, 19, 2 years NCD, A* postcode on driveway, on an E91 320D M Sport. My first year at 17 I paid £2400 on a 1.2 Fiesta.

You've bought a typical first car which doesn't help either, usually things like estates are cheaper as they have lower crash ratings than young person cars. Also there's no real proof you've actually driven before other than learning. It's the fact you have 0 NCD at such a high age yet have held a licence which is probably putting things up.

Try using just a comparison place like GoCompare/MoneySupermarket.

I did not say it WAS Fronting so suggest you read what I wrote.

I said it MAY be seen as Fronting.

Easy to test - I use Aviva for 6 cars in my family. They have proved cheapest.

So suggestion only - run the idea past them. They will listen. They will ask how the car is used, who owns it, what addres it is regidtered to........

I do know what happened witb the son of one of our friends locally convincincing his mother to take out the insurance on a Saxo.....

Their insurance company cancelled the mother's insurance for fronting 6 years ago and wi not insure her. The replacement insurance premiums are loaded about 40%.

Insurance companies are not welfare charities and the slightest infraction of their rules or misrepresentation causes long term retribution.

S

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Double post

 

[Krisstiffer]

Why would the police or anyone else see a driver who is the main user of a car with a policy in their name as fronting because a parent happened to be a named driver?

The Saxo scenario is fronting but that's different to what is being suggested here.

 

[redddraggon]

You've bought a typical first car which doesn't help either, usually things like estates are cheaper as they have lower crash ratings than young person cars.

Aye, if I'd chosen my own car I probably would have got something a little bigger with 4 doors, but as my parents are giving it to me when they collect their new Mini in September I can't really complain.

It's the fact you have 0 NCD at such a high age yet have held a licence which is probably putting things up.

Yeh, between 18 - 26 at Uni in Manchester I didn't need (and couldn't afford) a car, but I suppose I've got to insurance bandwagon at some to actually gain some years of no claims.

I think it's just all coming as shock with everything (tax/NI/rent/council tax/car etc) all hitting me at the same time after 8 years as a student.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Aye, if I'd chosen my own car I probably would have got something a little bigger with 4 doors, but as my parents are giving it to me when they collect their new Mini in September I can't really complain.



Yeh, between 18 - 26 at Uni in Manchester I didn't need (and couldn't afford) a car, but I suppose I've got to insurance bandwagon at some to actually gain some years of no claims.

I think it's just all coming as shock with everything (tax/NI/rent/council tax/car etc) all hitting me at the same time after 8 years as a student.

Who is the car currently insured with? And do they not offer NCD for named drivers if you take out a policy with them? Some do.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Why would the police or anyone else see a driver who is the main user of a car with a policy in their name as fronting because a parent happened to be a named driver?

The Saxo scenario is fronting but that's different to what is being suggested here.

It is how it is represented when you take out the policy.

It may reduce the premiums or may not. It is in the intent.

If you were to live in Scarborough and your parents lived in Brighton then it might be seen in a poor light

As sais It MAY be seen as fronting should something happen.

It might have been easier for me to have said "Just be straight and honest with the insurers".

I have a very good relationship with my insurance company BUT would I trust them - no way.

S

 

[nilagin]

It is how it is represented when you take out the policy.

It may reduce the premiums or may not. It is in the intent.

If you were to live in Scarborough and your parents lived in Brighton then it might be seen in a poor light

As sais It MAY be seen as fronting should something happen.

It might have been easier for me to have said "Just be straight and honest with the insurers".

I have a very good relationship with my insurance company BUT would I trust them - no way.

S

No it won't. Fronting is where the Parent or older driver is named as main driver and the child or whatever is a named secondary driver.
Youths adding one or more experienced drivers (usually parents) as named drivers to the policy is a perfectly legal means to lower premiums.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

No it won't. Fronting is where the Parent or older driver is named as main driver and the child or whatever is a named secondary driver.
Youths adding one or more experienced drivers (usually parents) as named drivers to the policy is a perfectly legal means to lower premiums.

As said I did not say it was. However - if the intent is to gain a lower premium by adding a relative and that named driver lives away from the owner on another part of the country then that intent becomes a cause for denying claims made or refusal to continue insurance. Hence my clarification re being honest with the insurance. The outcome is the same as fronting

Now rather than counting angels on a pin head - if you feel that all is well then fine and dandy. It all comes down to being straight with the insurers.

In 40 years od owning my own vehicle(s) I have seen some very dodgy things pulled by drivers and insurers alike. I never take anything for granted and have won every instance where insurers have tried to wriggle out of the contracy and refuse to honour them.

 

[nilagin]

As said I did not say it was. However - if the intent is to gain a lower premium by adding a relative and that named driver lives away from the owner on another part of the country then that intent becomes a cause for denying claims made or refusal to continue insurance. Hence my clarification re being honest with the insurance. The outcome is the same as fronting

You said it may be seen as Fronting by police and insurance companies. It isn't. It's no different to adding a spouse as a named driver to an insurance policy which also reduces the premium.
If insurance companies didn't want it to reduce premiums, they simply wouldn't give discounts for named drivers.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You said it may be seen as Fronting by police and insurance companies. It isn't. It's no different to adding a spouse as a named driver to an insurance policy which also reduces the premium.
If insurance companies didn't want it to reduce premiums, they simply wouldn't give discounts for named drivers.

Read my posts

Are you so sure that adding people who live far from you that as a "new" driver that it would not be seen as a bid to defraud?

I stand by what I said - anyone using it where the named driver lives st a distance that a normal use of the vehicle in a shared sense is not realistic is likely to face problems.

The test is to ask. Simple

So rotating the argument is pointless and futile.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Read my posts

Are you so sure that adding people who live far from you that as a "new" driver that it would not be seen as a bid to defraud?

I stand by what I said - anyone using it where the named driver lives st a distance that a normal use of the vehicle in a shared sense is not realistic is likely to face problems.

The test is to ask. Simple

So rotating the argument is pointless and futile.

Adding a named driver is definitely not fronting.

 

[nilagin]

Read my posts

Are you so sure that adding people who live far from you that as a "new" driver that it would not be seen as a bid to defraud?

I stand by what I said - anyone using it where the named driver lives st a distance that a normal use of the vehicle in a shared sense is not realistic is likely to face problems.

The test is to ask. Simple

So rotating the argument is pointless and futile.

If it was a problem, insurance companies wouldn't give a discount for a named driver who lived far away. It's quite simple really. There is no stipulation that a named driver even has to drive the car.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-to-cut-their-childs-car-insurance-costs.html

Fronting is when a lower risk – usually older – driver, insures a vehicle in their name, but the actual main driver falls into a higher risk category, such as a young or inexperienced driver. Though the idea behind fronting is to save the young driver money on their premium, it could invalidate insurance and lead to a criminal record.

“We can’t stress enough the importance of telling insurers the truth, as any deviation from the facts may result in any future claims being refused," said Scott Kelly, head of motor insurance at Gocompare.com. "There are plenty of perfectly legal ways to reduce premiums for young drivers which don’t result in them being underinsured or criminally liable.”

“Instead of ‘fronting’, parents should consider adding themselves as a named driver on their son or daughter’s policy," said Mr Kelly. "Having a more experienced driver on the policy should lower the premium and would still allow the younger driver to gain No Claims Bonuses (NCB) which will help lower future premiums significantly.”

I rest my case.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Adding a named driver is definitely not fronting.

You are absolutely 100000% corect

Now read what I have written in the context of the scenario where the named driver may live at the other end of the country and is being put on the insurance to lower the insurance of a new to be insured driver who faces a very large premium. Now put that into the mix and ask what possible benefit to either side of that "named" driver gives to the risk Assessment?

Bored of this

OP as mentioned - be straight and honest with your potential insurers.

 

[nilagin]

Adding a named driver is definitely not fronting.

You are absolutely 100000% corect

Now read what I have written in the context of the scenario where the named driver may live at the other end of the country and is being put on the insurance to lower the insurance of a new to be insured driver who faces a very large premium. Now put that into the mix and ask what possible benefit to either side of that "named" driver gives to the risk Assessment?

Bored of this

OP as mentioned - be straight and honest with your potential insurers.

So why say it is then?
As I wrote above, if it was wrong, then adding named drivers from far away would not provide a discount as the named drivers address has to be submitted.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

So why say it is then?
As I wrote above, if it was wrong, then adding named drivers from far away would not provide a discount as the named drivers address has to be submitted.

Then read the OPs financial statement - he pays rent council tax so sssuming that he has his oen life and thst the named driver has to live at the same address (which the do not if the insurance company are informed and agree) then the matter becomes moot. The point is that any attempt to fraudulently midrepresent motor insurance may prove illrgal.

So leave it there and enjoy a nice weekend

Too warm and the beers are cold......

 

[nilagin]

Then read the OPs financial statement - he pays rent council tax so sssuming that he has his oen life and thst the named driver has to live at the same address (which the do not if the insurance company are informed and agree) then the matter becomes moot. The point is that any attempt to fraudulently midrepresent motor insurance may prove illrgal.

So leave it there and enjoy a nice weekend

Too warm and the beers are cold......

Named drivers do not have to live at the same address. Hence why their address has to be entered along with the rest of their details.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Named drivers do not have to live at the same address. Hence why their address has to be entered along with the rest of their details.

Which is in my reply you quoted

On my second lager out of the ice bucket. Frosted..... nliss

 

[f1charlie]

Blimey, that livened things up!

My daughter tried getting a quote with just her on the policy and then with myself and the wife as named drivers and the premium almost halved.