Car Insurance rip off

30psi said:
I didn't NEED a car until I was about 20. As anyone will know I'm obsessed with cars but I still couldn't justify what it cost to drive at 17. So simply I didn't drive.
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Part of the reason i have only just started taking lessons at 25
 
I could understand if they wanted £1,000 excess on the policy or something like that, whether I was driving or my son. (My current excess is £250 voluntary). But to feel the need to put a loading on my policy because he might be a high risk seems a bit much.
 
nilagin said:
I could understand if they wanted £1,000 excess on the policy or something like that, whether I was driving or my son. (My current excess is £250 voluntary). But to feel the need to put a loading on my policy because he might be a high risk seems a bit much.
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I still say use the cash to get a cheap car and insurance. Saves your no claims if anything goes wrong, and its probably cheaper then just insuring him on your motor
 
Might be a high risk?

He IS a high risk. End of.

The insurer can't see in to the future, so they have to assume that like all other 17 years he's probably something like 40% chance of making a claim.

Something like 1 in 6 i.e 17% of motor policyholders made a claim last year.
 
Theres a few other variants involved now in insurance, you may remember a few years ago there was a campaign to get insurance quotes to be regional based instead of national.
The idea although very sound got kicked into touch as it would have meant people who live in notorious flood plains paying astronomical figures.
I think an example given was.

Buyer A and B currently both Pay say £500 for insurance, if it was regional A would pay £130 and B (living in a flood plain area) would be £2200.
Obviously the example is not based on 2 people but several thousand.
The same would be applied to Home Insurance etc.

I personally think regional insurance would be better as we all have a choice (more or less although a lot less nowdays due to economics) where we live and what we drive.
 
We insured my car for the first year in my mum's name with Direct Line. They allow the new driver to go on as a named driver for the first year, and then they get touchy and you have to insure it in your own right, which we did.

First year (insured in January when I had a provisional, passed test in the June) was £550 fully comp as a named driver. 2nd year was £500 fully comp in my own name. 3rd year went down to £400 :)

I hazard a guess that it's the car you're trying to insure your son on? And would then hazard a guess that it's probably not the best car for someone who's just passed their test to drive... If it's that or nothing I'd probably go for nothing, get him to save up for a car and keep giving him lifts if it's going to cost you that much to insure.
 
nilagin said:
I could understand if they wanted £1,000 excess on the policy or something like that, whether I was driving or my son. (My current excess is £250 voluntary). But to feel the need to put a loading on my policy because he might be a high risk seems a bit much.
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£1000 excess isn't going to have much impact on what the company would end up paying for a serious personal injury claim. You could of course ask for a high voluntary excess and that would bring the annual premium down - but it will still be higher as your son is rated as a higher risk initially. You might even find there is already a young / inexperienced driver additional excess that applies to your son but they should have told you that when they did the quote if this is the case.
 
30psi said:
Might be a high risk?

He IS a high risk. End of.

The insurer can't see in to the future, so they have to assume that like all other 17 years he's probably something like 40% chance of making a claim.

Something like 1 in 6 i.e 17% of motor policyholders made a claim last year.
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Exactly. IIRC my insurance at 17 was £400 for a car that cost £150 and to put that into context the car was only 4 years old :lol:

I also remember my mate going for his first insurance at 17, he was buying an ancient Mini off me for £50 and the quote was £250 - a quarter. Mind you he did have six points and had written off his mum's car, all within a week of passing his test :lol:
 
My first car was probably the equivalent of a group 10 in todays terms and that only cost me around £250 to insure. Car insurance for young drivers is now disproportionately high compared to when I passed my test almost 30 yrs ago.
My Dad put me on his car insurance when I was learning, his car was brand new and it only cost him around £50.
 
Yeah but nowawdays car's are much more powerful, and also make driving them a lot easier which raises the risk. A 1.4 car now is 100bhp which is more than say some 2.0 cars of 30 years ago.

Kids these days should drive 30bhp cars with cross plies to respect their own driving a lot more.
 
nilagin said:
My first car was probably the equivalent of a group 10 in todays terms and that only cost me around £250 to insure.
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Assuming it was 30 years ago, that the same as £900 in today's money and your car now is two groups higher :shrug:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Assuming it was 30 years ago, that the same as £900 in today's money and your car now is two groups higher :shrug:
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I bet my son couldn't even get insurance for under £1,000 even on a group 1 car.
 
its all part of being a new driver, the premiums are huge (mine was twice the value of my car) due to the 'risk'


the reason for the huge premium hike as a second driver is that the insurance company have no way of knowing who will be driving the car for the majority of the time, people do 'front' for their kids on policies and as that is a risk they more than likely incorporate the fact that people do that into the premium.


im just glad that as my no claims has increased my premiums have come down, now i pay £300 insurance on a car thats worth about 10times that compared to my first car, i also struggled because as a young driver i was rear ended by a young driver with no insurance or license and that went down as my fault (and i ended up paying). insurance is a sod but thats just part of lifes rich tapestry
 
whitewash said:
im just glad that as my no claims has increased my premiums have come down, now i pay £300 insurance on a car thats worth about 10times that compared to my first car, i also struggled because as a young driver i was rear ended by a young driver with no insurance or license and that went down as my fault (and i ended up paying). insurance is a sod but thats just part of lifes rich tapestry
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Even if he had been insured, I bet your following years premium would still be effected. Hence why they ask if you've been involved in any accidents even if you weren't at fault. Somehow they see this as you being of higher risk.
How do they come up with risk loading depending on your profession.
I'm a tool maker by trade, yet if I were to put factory worker down instead I can save a few £'s a year on premiums. How the hell does that work?
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/car-insurance-job-picker/
 
nilagin said:
I bet my son couldn't even get insurance for under £1,000 even on a group 1 car.
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No, probably not. The fact that he's a student and involved in a motorsport-related course will all add to the premium. I doubt your insurance would have been £250 way back if the same criteria had applied.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
No, probably not. The fact that he's a student and involved in a motorsport-related course will all add to the premium. I doubt your insurance would have been £250 way back if the same criteria had applied.
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Don't think they'd even ask what course he was on. When I passed my test I was an apprentice, so only difference was I get paid he doesn't. Why should that mean a higher risk/premium for him. Going back to my previous thread about job title, I just rechecked on the link I provided about alternative jobs, I should be able to save £15.00 per year just by saying I'm a factory worked instead of tool maker. I'm a tool maker that works in a factory, so why should I be a higher risk than someone who works on one of the factory lines for example.:shrug:
 
Students are seen as a high risk, because it is assumed that they'll be leading a student lifestyle, regardless of whether they actually are or not...
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Students are seen as a high risk, because it is assumed that they'll be leading a student lifestyle, regardless of whether they actually are or not...
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Which is what exactly? I was out every night and always driving my car after I passed my test because I had the money to do so. I'd be out to the early hours of the morning sometimes later, having just enough time to have a quick wash, breakfast and off to work. As I had the money, I had alot more freedom to be out on the road in my car everyday as well as going out in general, more so than any student. So surely I and people like me should be a higher risk.:thinking:
 
nilagin said:
Which is what exactly? I was out every night and always driving my car after I passed my test because I had the money to do so. I'd be out to the early hours of the morning sometimes later, having just enough time to have a quick wash, breakfast and off to work. As I had the money, I had alot more freedom to be out on the road in my car everyday as well as going out in general, more so than any student. So surely I and people like me should be a higher risk.:thinking:
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I think they assume that they'll be behaving like eejits, as students have a want to do ;)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I think they assume that they'll be behaving like eejits, as students have a want to do ;)
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Well the weeks when I was at college during my apprenticeship, my colleagues and I were probably alot wilder and more of a nuisance than any of the students on full time courses their. We always seemed to cause alot more trouble.:lol: Plus having more money, we seemed to have much better luck with the young ladies in the college.
 
Daysleeper40 said:
Originally Posted by nilagin
I've been driving almost 30 yrs. It wasn't as bad as that when I passed my test and bought my first car. But then again, they always reckoned Insurance would get cheaper as you got older. I was always told it would be cheaper when I got to 21, it never happened, then it was 25, again it never happened, then it was 30 and it still didn't happen.

Wouldn't £260 thirty years ago actually equate to a higher amount? I also find it hard to believe that your earning NCD has never made a difference to your premiums. Generally the scale goes from 30% discount for 1 year earned NCD to approx 70% discount for 9 years earned. Have you really not seen any reduction because of this?
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Just a few points - in red above...
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Personally other than the odd accident where I would have built up my no claims bonus again or changing cars, my premiums have never gone down by any great amount. As far as companies that would offer 70% discount, I've always found their premiums to have been higher in the first place so the extra discount amounts to nothing.
 
nilagin said:
Well the weeks when I was at college during my apprenticeship, my colleagues and I were probably alot wilder and more of a nuisance than any of the students on full time courses their. We always seemed to cause alot more trouble.:lol: Plus having more money, we seemed to have much better luck with the young ladies in the college.
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but they dont know you individually, they can only make a decision based on the majority (or rather the minority spoiling it for everyone else)
 
I just tried getting a "go compare" quote with just my son driving, came back with £6838 with £575 excess, £250 of which was voluntary. With me as a named driver it knocked off £300 from the premium and the excess down to £500.
I'm sorry but £6838 is no way comparable to anything I would have been charged at 18, not on an everyday family car which is all my car is, come to think of it that is all my first car was. Added to the fact that todays cars are safer, better brakes etc. On a power to rate ratio, an 18 yr old can almost as much damage with a lower grouped car as he could with mine.
 
Carl V said:
I sometimes wonder how specific models of cars have varying insurance groups. If I can give an example, about 2 years ago (before the current new-style models arrived) I was comparing prices of Ford Fiesta's.

The 1.6 Ghia 5-door cost around £13,000 with an insurance group of 7.
The ST 3-door, which has a 2 litre engine, cost exactly the same amount on the road but yet this model had a grouping of 14.

Now I understand the ST is a higher performance car than the Ghia, but assuming they were both written off in an accident, they would cost the same to replace so why such a difference in insurance groupings.

To be fair, these were Ford's own quotes so perhaps the difference wouldn't be as great from an alternative insurance company.
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Ghia's tend to be bought buy oldies like me who go for comfort and drive carefully.
ST's tend to be bought by younger people who use the extra performance, to put it politely.

The value of the insured car is relevant but so is the value of whatever else is involved.
 
What car is it you're trying to insure your son on?
 
Not surprising then that insurance is expensive for a 17 year old on that to be honest.
 
nilagin said:
I just tried getting a "go compare" quote with just my son driving, came back with £6838 with £575 excess, £250 of which was voluntary. With me as a named driver it knocked off £300 from the premium and the excess down to £500.
I'm sorry but £6838 is no way comparable to anything I would have been charged at 18, not on an everyday family car which is all my car is, come to think of it that is all my first car was.
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That's just their way of saying they don't want your business....
 
That looks like Matt Sayle's car, no wonder he's had so much go wrong with it, so soon.
 
Unfortunately, when it comes to new drivers, insurers seem to think along the lines of guilty until found innocent - newbies ARE an accident waiting to happen.

A 2ltr mondeo is a big, powerful car and although he may be a total angel, put a newbie in a big car and it's crash time, especially a young lad -lead foot and all that. I didn't find my mondeo that cheap to insure anyway, don't know whether that's down to parts prices or something like that.
 
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One bit of advice. Compare websites are useless if someone on the policy is under 25. You'll have to go around and shop. My advice is use a company like Direct Line, where even as a named driver they can get No Claims Discount (But that only applies if he stays with Direct Line).
 
Pieface said:
One bit of advice. Compare websites are useless if someone on the policy is under 25. You'll have to go around and shop. My advice is use a company like Direct Line, where even as a named driver they can get No Claims Discount (But that only applies if he stays with Direct Line).
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Just tried Direct Line, they can't give me a quote based on current information.
 
Just out of interest, what sort of extra amount are you going to be happy with to include your son on your policy?
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Just out of interest, what sort of extra amount are you going to be happy with to include your son on your policy?
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I was hoping for a few hundred quid, but obviously that ain't going to happen. It was only supposed to be a stop gap to keep him driving whilst we can sort out a car and insurance of his own.
 
Yeah...at that age it's going to hurt no matter what...just get him a Mk2 1.8 LX Mondeo (about £800 now...the shame of it..) and suck up the insurance...
Might be better than a Fiesta due to the Salary-Man image...
 
nilagin said:
Which is what exactly? I was out every night and always driving my car after I passed my test because I had the money to do so. I'd be out to the early hours of the morning sometimes later, having just enough time to have a quick wash, breakfast and off to work. As I had the money, I had alot more freedom to be out on the road in my car everyday as well as going out in general, more so than any student. So surely I and people like me should be a higher risk.:thinking:
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Student Lifestyle for me was drinking, shagging, drinking, drinking, more drinking, more shagging...
Survived on beans-on-cheese-on-toast, pot-noodle and monthly family dinners for three years...

In my first term I went to 3 lectures...

Ended up with a BA(Hons) 2:1 and a C average...

Didn't actually need a car full-time until I was about 27...though I owned a few along the way - I mostly cycled and public-transported in between car-ownership...

Now I pay £195 pa for the Cougar fully-comp and a whopping £365 pa fully-comp for the Mustang...lol
 
I just tried getting a quote on confused.com and I certainly did get confused. I selected full time education/student from the drop down box, answered the rest of the questions on the page but it wouldn't let me go to the next page as I hadn't entered a "Main Occupation". So I thought it must be asking what course he'd be on, nearest being auto engineer, came back with he can't be an auto engineer and in full time education.:thinking::cuckoo:
He doesn't have an occupation so let me go the next page will ya.:bang::bang:
 
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