Car Insurance rip off

nilagin

nilagin

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My 18 yr old son passed his driving test on Tuesday. As he can't afford a car or run a car of his own at the moment, I thought I'd put him on my policy as a named driver so he can drive a car from time to time. OK the car is group 12 so not exactly a low insurance group. On Go Compare I answered all their questions, I ticked the box to say neither of us has access to other cars, we are a one car family so we are not trying to pull a fast one by trying to get him cheap insurance on his own car.
We both have clean licences although his is obviously brand new and I have full no claims bonus.
Then the quotes came through. £1980 to £3890 about half a dozen quotes only, not the usual 100 I get when I have done searches before for myself alone.
My insurance is normally around £260 so why should it have to be an extra £1700 on the cheapest quote when it is obvious it isn't his car, he will only have part time access to it, in fact he'd be lucky to drive it once a week as I work shifts and have it myself.
There was me thinking it would be a couple of hundered or so at the most. Complete rip off.
 
nilagin said:
My 18 yr old son passed his driving test on Tuesday. As he can't afford a car or run a car of his own at the moment, I thought I'd put him on my policy as a named driver so he can drive a car from time to time. OK the car is group 12 so not exactly a low insurance group. On Go Compare I answered all their questions, I ticked the box to say neither of us has access to other cars, we are a one car family so we are not trying to pull a fast one by trying to get him cheap insurance on his own car.
We both have clean licences although his is obviously brand new and I have full no claims bonus.
Then the quotes came through. £1980 to £3890 about half a dozen quotes only, not the usual 100 I get when I have done searches before for myself alone.
My insurance is normally around £260 so why should it have to be an extra £1700 on the cheapest quote when it is obvious it isn't his car, he will only have part time access to it, in fact he'd be lucky to drive it once a week as I work shifts and have it myself.
There was me thinking it would be a couple of hundered or so at the most. Complete rip off.
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sorry to be blunt, you may think your son is the best new driver in the world, but the insurance companies think otherwise.

If they didnt charge 2 grand for a new driver then your policy which is normally 260 quid would easily be double that.
 
Because he's a really high risk?

Try more insurers, if they simply don't want to carry these type of risks they will either decline or give you a high quote to send you running.

People used to insure their kids as named drivers to effectively get them insurered cheaper on a car. The insurers are wise to this. For fun, it might be worth you trying a quote where you putting him down as the main driver and yourself as a named driver and see what the premium is despite losing the no claims to see what the difference is. You might find your no claims hasn't really been having an impact because your son is say 90% of the risk.

I say make him walk. Or buy his own car and insurer it himself.
 
30psi said:
I say make him walk.
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Me too. He didn't need a car last week.

I think it's strange that 17 - 18 year olds seem to think they have to have a car (or the use of one) just because they have passed their driving test.


Steve.
 
Lickeh said:
Try Adrian Flux (best to phone rather then use the online form).
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I had them being arsey with me years ago when I rang for a quote, would now never use them on principle

Young drivers have a higher risk attached, best to ring your insurer and get a quote to add as a named driver.
 
pay £50 for a banger, put it on the drive/garage/out of site on his 17th birthday. Doesn't even need to work.

Pay for Third party only (npt even fire or theft, but check prices with ) and let it build p no claims discount.

an 800cc fiat or similar is idel, low ins group etc.

In fact, why not see if it is cheaper to buy an old grp one car (ford ka) and insure that for less than the insurance on your car.
 
lawrie29 said:
pay £50 for a banger, put it on the drive/garage/out of site on his 17th birthday. Doesn't even need to work.

Pay for Third party only (npt even fire or theft, but check prices with ) and let it build p no claims discount.

an 800cc fiat or similar is idel, low ins group etc.

In fact, why not see if it is cheaper to buy an old grp one car (ford ka) and insure that for less than the insurance on your car.
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+1

you can get a reasonably nice car for £500 with air bags and abs.
 
lawrie29 said:
pay £50 for a banger, put it on the drive/garage/out of site on his 17th birthday. Doesn't even need to work.
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it will work to an extent

fromm 17th birthday it would only be insured under a provisional license, then once he was to pass it would still go up as it would need changing to a full license
 
Couldnt be bothered to read the thread, but it would be cheaper to buy an old Fiesta (the car, not the magazine) and insure it under his name with you as named driver on his policy.

Just my 2p
 
Steve Smith said:
Me too. He didn't need a car last week.

I think it's strange that 17 - 18 year olds seem to think they have to have a car (or the use of one) just because they have passed their driving test.


Steve.
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My son is on a Motorsport Engineering course, apart from a 2hr bus journey to college (which can be done in 20 minutes by car) he also has to attend rallies and races as part of his course work. This means getting to college to meet the minibus before the buses run often enough to get him there. Also his girlfriend lives over 40 miles away so he could drive himself from time to time instead of relying on me.
I never said I thought he was the best driver in the world, as someone else kindly said, I know he is the higher risk, but the fact remains and as I ticked in the boxes for the quote, the car is mine and we have no other car, so he is only going to get limited use so no matter how much of a risk he would be whilst driving, the amount of time he will actually be behind the wheel is negligible, so I can't see how they can quote a £1700 loading. If we had two cars then yes it could be seen as a fiddle to get cheap insurance, but we only have the one.
A mate of mine at work, his son passed his driving test. He already had a car which his Mum and Dad gave him lessons on top of his driving school lessons. The car was already registered and insured in his name. When he rang them to inform them he had now passed his test, they wanted another £1300.
 
the reason it goes up when passing is simple

When you have a provisional license you must be supervised at all times, once you pass you are then free to drive as you please

I am not saying I dont agree with you but insurance companies have rules to cover any risk
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Couldnt be bothered to read the thread, but it would be cheaper to buy an old Fiesta (the car, not the magazine) and insure it under his name with you as named driver on his policy.

Just my 2p
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Unfortunately because of the fluctuation of number of days my son attends college or events tied to his course, he cant find a part time job with flexible enough hours to afford to run a car of his own at the moment. I'd help him out but it would only need a few things going wrong on his car like Matt Sayle has been unfortunate enough to suffer and things start getting very impractical and expensive. The amount of use of a car he needs at the moment doesn't really warrant him needing his own at the moment, hence why I thought he could have the limited use of my own.
Even buying him a Fiesta or Ka and insuring it in his name with me as named driver and the extra road tax and running costs without repairs, I don't think it'd be much cheaper than £1700 anyway.
 
Buy this:

Clicky

The insurance on that will be about as low as you can get for a first time driver
 
whitey said:
the reason it goes up when passing is simple

When you have a provisional license you must be supervised at all times, once you pass you are then free to drive as you please

I am not saying I dont agree with you but insurance companies have rules to cover any risk
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Problem is it is getting worse and insurance companies are getting greedier all the time. I've been driving almost 30 yrs. It wasn't as bad as that when I passed my test and bought my first car. But then again, they always reckoned Insurance would get cheaper as you got older. I was always told it would be cheaper when I got to 21, it never happened, then it was 25, again it never happened, then it was 30 and it still didn't happen.
The cost just doesn't seem relevant to the loading. Perhaps they should introduce a restrictor on cars to be fitted for young and inexperienced drivers like they do with motorbikes.
Ford in America have introduced a system similar to this. Parents can set the car so it can't travel faster than a set maximum speed, even the stereo can't be turned up beyond a set volume. Would be interesting to know if this made their insurance cheaper.

As far as getting a small engined car because it is a low group. If young drivers are such a high risk of having an accident and the majority of young people will be driving those cars then surely those cars should be of a higher group.
My car is a Mondeo 2.0 Ghia X, it's group 12, yet if I'd bought a 2.0 Si which is slightly sportier looking with a rear spoiler it is only group 11 so cheaper to insure, how do insurance companies figure that one?
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Buy this:

Clicky

The insurance on that will be about as low as you can get for a first time driver
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That don't look too bad, simple to fix too.
I'm glad everyone is suggesting I get him a Ford, you must know me and my son better than I thought.:lol:
I used to have a Fiesta 950 years ago, now that really ought to be cheap insurance. Fun to drive too. I adapted a K&N pancake airfilter which was originally made for a Weber twin choke. Lovely induction roar. Not that I'd be suggesting my son do that.:nono::lol:
 
nilagin said:
Problem is it is getting worse and insurance companies are getting greedier all the time. I've been driving almost 30 yrs. It wasn't as bad as that when I passed my test and bought my first car. But then again, they always reckoned Insurance would get cheaper as you got older. I was always told it would be cheaper when I got to 21, it never happened, then it was 25, again it never happened, then it was 30 and it still didn't happen.
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I know just what you mean. I passed my test in 1984 when I was 18 and they said exactly the same thing to me. In the 25 years or so I've been driving, my insurance has either stayed the same or steadily gone up. The only accident I was involved in was when a car ran into the back of me whilst I was waiting at the lights. As luck would have it a copper was parked across the road so I had a witness. Anyway the other drivers insurance paid up so this shouldn't have affected my premiums.

My father, whose 77, has just renewed his policy and has gone up by nearly £80 for no reason. He only drives the basic model of a Ford Focus and just uses the car a couple of times a week to go to Tesco's which is about 3 miles each way. He did find an alternative insurance company, but even this was around £20 more. So yes, you're absolutely correct - a rip-off.
 
Hi,

Insurance companies don't really make thier money from the insurance itself. Normally premiums = claims + expenses (approx). They make money by investing the premiums in the stock market etc. The problem is no one is making money from investments at the moment so you will probably see premiums go up across the board.
 
Steve Smith said:
Me too. He didn't need a car last week.

I think it's strange that 17 - 18 year olds seem to think they have to have a car (or the use of one) just because they have passed their driving test.


Steve.
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If his son is anything like me (I.E I complete petrolhead, which I am guessing he is) then he would have been waiting for this day for a VERY long time and when you pass you just want to get out there, show off to your girlfriend and all your mates!! It is almost a ritual. It just has to be done!!!

I really feel sorry for him. I had to wait 1 night before I could hit the road and that was terrible, never mind nearly a week!!!
 
nilagin said:
Unfortunately because of the fluctuation of number of days my son attends college or events tied to his course, he cant find a part time job with flexible enough hours to afford to run a car of his own at the moment. I'd help him out but it would only need a few things going wrong on his car like Matt Sayle has been unfortunate enough to suffer and things start getting very impractical and expensive. The amount of use of a car he needs at the moment doesn't really warrant him needing his own at the moment, hence why I thought he could have the limited use of my own.
Even buying him a Fiesta or Ka and insuring it in his name with me as named driver and the extra road tax and running costs without repairs, I don't think it'd be much cheaper than £1700 anyway.
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I struggling to keep my car on the road TBH. If wasnt for my dad who has helped me a lot (like you would him) then I wouldnt be driving atm :( It gets so damn expensive!
 
Yeah, insurers got wise to this many years ago - too many youngsters on parents insurance but still the same accident rate with them - one thing that might lower it slightly is if your wife (if you're unfortunate enough to have one) drives, is to put her on your insurance also - strange, I know... :cuckoo:
 
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nilagin said:
My 18 yr old son passed his driving test on Tuesday.....
We both have clean licences although his is obviously brand new
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He'd have to have been going some not to still have a clean licence if he only got it two days ago and hasn't driven since......:naughty:

You also say later on that he's at college, insurance companies hate students - I went back as a mature student at 27 and my insurance doubled.

The insurance company have no way of knowing (ie proving) that your son will only be driving the car once a week and lots of parents put their kids on as a named driver when they are in fact going to be the main user of the car. Don't be tempted to try that - it's called fronting and if you get caught you'll have no insurance, an IN10 on both your licences and then £1700 will seem really cheap ;)
 
AlexW said:
Hi,

Insurance companies don't really make thier money from the insurance itself. Normally premiums = claims + expenses (approx). They make money by investing the premiums in the stock market etc. The problem is no one is making money from investments at the moment so you will probably see premiums go up across the board.
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Truth! They actually make a loss on their net written premiums less claims.

nilagin said:
Problem is it is getting worse and insurance companies are getting greedier all the time. I've been driving almost 30 yrs. It wasn't as bad as that when I passed my test and bought my first car. But then again, they always reckoned Insurance would get cheaper as you got older. I was always told it would be cheaper when I got to 21, it never happened, then it was 25, again it never happened, then it was 30 and it still didn't happen.
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That's not what I've seen. I'm 28. My insurance's all run out the day before my birthday and each year insurance for the 3 cars reduces.

Typically speaking the additional loading for age reduces and then settles for middle agers. Then at 70 it will start increasing.
 
nilagin said:
That don't look too bad, simple to fix too.
I'm glad everyone is suggesting I get him a Ford, you must know me and my son better than I thought.:lol:
I used to have a Fiesta 950 years ago, now that really ought to be cheap insurance. Fun to drive too. I adapted a K&N pancake airfilter which was originally made for a Weber twin choke. Lovely induction roar. Not that I'd be suggesting my son do that.:nono::lol:
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:lol:

But yeah, test out some places like go compare using the reg of that car, then try putting your wife or yourself on the policy as a named driver so you can "occasionally" use the car. That helps lower the insurance.

I'm taking driving lessons at the moment and have been checking a few quotes on cars for when i pass. its cheaper to have my wife-to-be on the policy even though she got an SP30 last year. It reduces the premium by around £150-200 (depending on car) and yet i am 25 and she is 24

Just a few pointers that might be worth thinking about

Mike
 
At the end of the day he's quite likely to have a prang as a young driver. The statistics show this. So a high risk will never be cheap to insure. I'm afraid you (or he) will just have to live with it.
 
all true
also insurance group 12 is the kicker. insurance has gone up loads too I think since we're becoming more litigious as a society...all these bang, prang, blame, claim firms advertising all the time...
might be cheaper to get a diesel polo or similar on low insurance.
 
Lets be honest. The real problem is the risk. Insurers are well aware of the likelyhood and consequences of a crash.

Reality is that young male drivers frequently have crashes when the car has 3,4 or more people in the car. It isnt the cost of vehicle repair (although that is increasing) but the cost of people repair.

I'm with the buy something old/cheap and slow. I'd shop around for diff cars as well. The trendy ones are loaded (because they have more accidents) think in terms of old/boring. Passat diesel estate type of thing.
 
insurance for me was rediculous i thought but compared to nowadays it was cheap i suppose

and even better for me now i am on a full traders policy to ride bike and cars with no extra insurnace to pay as the work pays for it so saving me £400 a year just on a car
 
To be honest I do think young drivers get penalised more than ever. When I passed my test in 1988 my Dad put me on his car for abut £50 or thereabouts. A few months later I paid £270 (ish) to insure a 1300 Mk1 Escort in my name. Looking at what is mentioned above that would probably be £2K now. Now I drive an Impreza turbo (Group 20 I think) and my most recent premium including business cover came in at £260.

I've never made a claim or had one made against me.

I use a local broker who is competitive and doesn't have a call centre, just an office where you can go and see him, novel idea !!!!

Russ
 
Its the same for all yougsters ain't it. When I first passed my test I had a new mini, £2200 a year insurance! A couple of years later I upgraded and had a Cooper S, that was £1400 so it was a fair drop in those first few years.
 
Insurance for me was awful and I started late at 20. 7 years on and I can insure 3 cars with a total of 800bhp between them for less than the 90bhp car I started out with.

And I had a small prang within 6 weeks of starting driving. It's true, young fellas, are statistically on the whole going to be over confident lunatics.

There's still a lot of learning that needs to be done by even new good drivers.
 
nilagin said:
Problem is it is getting worse and insurance companies are getting greedier all the time.

You have to appreciate that insurance companies are businesses and base their rating structure on risk. The fact is claims ratio's are higher for young male new drivers and they are a higher risk than a 45 year old with a clean licence - of course the premiums are going to be higher. It's not a matter of greed.

I've been driving almost 30 yrs. It wasn't as bad as that when I passed my test and bought my first car. But then again, they always reckoned Insurance would get cheaper as you got older. I was always told it would be cheaper when I got to 21, it never happened, then it was 25, again it never happened, then it was 30 and it still didn't happen.

Wouldn't £260 thirty years ago actually equate to a higher amount? I also find it hard to believe that your earning NCD has never made a difference to your premiums. Generally the scale goes from 30% discount for 1 year earned NCD to approx 70% discount for 9 years earned. Have you really not seen any reduction because of this?

The cost just doesn't seem relevant to the loading.

It is not a loading - it is a rating structure. They don't just quote the premium for yourself and wack a load on for your son - they will have a multiplier attached to each factor (car, policyholder, named drivers, overnight location, area you live in etc etc) and calculate the premium based on these multipliers.

Perhaps they should introduce a restrictor on cars to be fitted for young and inexperienced drivers like they do with motorbikes.
Ford in America have introduced a system similar to this. Parents can set the car so it can't travel faster than a set maximum speed, even the stereo can't be turned up beyond a set volume. Would be interesting to know if this made their insurance cheaper.

Only thing with this is there was a recent thread where a young guy had removed the restrictor which ended very badly for him. Although this is likely to invalidate your insurance and any claim would be repudiated so it could still be used as a rating factor I suppose.

As far as getting a small engined car because it is a low group. If young drivers are such a high risk of having an accident and the majority of young people will be driving those cars then surely those cars should be of a higher group.

The ABI set the grouping of vehicles, not insurance companies - they can only work on the group that the car has been given.

My car is a Mondeo 2.0 Ghia X, it's group 12, yet if I'd bought a 2.0 Si which is slightly sportier looking with a rear spoiler it is only group 11 so cheaper to insure, how do insurance companies figure that one?
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Just a few points - in red above...
 
I dont think the abi groupings count for much - Insurance companies can be much more specific with the claims data that they have. Hence the apparant bargains and rip-offs.
 
who? said:
I dont think the abi groupings count for much - Insurance companies can be much more specific with the claims data that they have. Hence the apparant bargains and rip-offs.
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:agree: Esure told me they don't use the ABI ratings, they have their own system for determining risk, which explains why an ABI Group 11 car would have been cheaper for me than my current group 8 one....
 
Thatcham actually do the groupings on a number of different factors such as vehicle part replacement value, security, performance etc etc. They're a starting place for insurers. Some insurers may avoid certain vehicles or certain type of people or locations etc.

There are no rip off's?! Don't buy the insurance if you think it's a rip off.

What you want to do is stop opportunist and organised fraud. They reckon that counts 5% of the premium. Also these accident management companies take the wee, they encourage people to do whiplash claims and all sorts. Funny how in other countries where whiplash isn't paid out on insurance the amount of reported whiplash to hospitals is significantly different!
 
I sometimes wonder how specific models of cars have varying insurance groups. If I can give an example, about 2 years ago (before the current new-style models arrived) I was comparing prices of Ford Fiesta's.

The 1.6 Ghia 5-door cost around £13,000 with an insurance group of 7.
The ST 3-door, which has a 2 litre engine, cost exactly the same amount on the road but yet this model had a grouping of 14.

Now I understand the ST is a higher performance car than the Ghia, but assuming they were both written off in an accident, they would cost the same to replace so why such a difference in insurance groupings.

To be fair, these were Ford's own quotes so perhaps the difference wouldn't be as great from an alternative insurance company.
 
One is more interesting to a thief, one might be less safe than the other in an accident, different values, different equipment (hence parts pricing)
 
30psi said:
One is more interesting to a thief, one might be less safe than the other in an accident, different values, different equipment (hence parts pricing)
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Yes, you do have a point there. The ST would be more appealing to a thief I guess. It does drink a hell of a lot more petrol as well.
 
Steve Smith said:
Me too. He didn't need a car last week.

I think it's strange that 17 - 18 year olds seem to think they have to have a car (or the use of one) just because they have passed their driving test.


Steve.
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Well it was a no brainer for me. I either drive to work, or my parents get up at god knows AM and take me to work.

I would have been quite happy to ride to college, however.
But it takes an hour and a half and I get all sweaty.
 
I didn't NEED a car until I was about 20. As anyone will know I'm obsessed with cars but I still couldn't justify what it cost to drive at 17. So simply I didn't drive.
 
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