Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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wuyanxu said:
Wake me up when Ford produces over 10,000 EV a week. Should be quick and easy for a large manufacturer like Ford?
Oh wait, you hadn't secured enough batteries to put in those empty chassis. Just one announcement to build EV factory doesn't mean anything, batteries supply is the key for volume EV production, I don't see any factory or deal being stuck by Ford. Not a very good follower, nevermind being slow :ROFLMAO:
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Ford already have 3 suppliers for EV and hybrid batteries.
The announcement wasn't about building a factory for EV's it was about which existing factory had been chosen to be their 2nd factory for building Ev's alongside other vehicles so those factories could run economically close to capacity. You were obviously hoodwinked into believing the investment was about EV but it is just normal investment to retool a factory and part of the investment is for the next generation Mustang.
 
Today, Guardian published an article looking back at dieselgate and ahead:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...industry-hid-the-truth-about-diesel-emissions
The diesel cheating scandal is in some sense a failure of innovation – yet another symptom of carmakers’ desire to stick with what they know, with the cars that reliably deliver profits. That caution is surely at the root of why European manufacturers pushed governments looking to shrink carbon footprints to turn to diesel, rather than, for example, hybrids such as those that Honda and Toyota had already put on roads by the late 1990s. With their vast resources and the marketing muscle to bring consumers along, who knows what Volkswagen and the others could have come up with. We have all paid the price for their decision not to try.
....
Today, electric vehicles look like the best way to slash both sorts of pollution, another place where the goals of a healthy climate and healthy bodies converge. Electricity by itself is no guarantee of climate friendliness. But it is a necessary prerequisite to powering cars from clean sources such as wind and solar.
.....
So there is a long way to go before technology fulfills its promise on a scale big enough to matter. But Tesla, and others taking up the gauntlet it has thrown down, offer a peek at what is possible. Less important than whether that future is delivered by Silicon Valley or Detroit, Beijing or Wolfsburg is that it dawns quickly. Innovation today offers the hope of a revolution that finally takes us where we need to go.
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Another news popped up today, Tesla are abolishing annual service requirement.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-car-maintenance-plan-service/
Having analyzed billions of miles of real-world driving data from its worldwide fleet of vehicles, combined with internal engineering studies on vehicle reliability, durability, and safety, the electric carmaker found that there was less of a need for customers to bring their vehicles in for annual service when, in many instances, the vehicle did not require maintenance like a traditional gasoline car would.
...
Does my car require an annual maintenance service?
Your Tesla does not require annual maintenance and regular fluid changes. Please check your Owner’s Manual for latest maintenance recommendations for your Tesla.
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broc said:
As the volume of EV sales ramps up & the Government gets less revenue from fuel duty, VAT & VED, sooner or later they will have to tax EV users at which point a large slice of the 'savings' will vanish. Take a look at this article

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-n...l-road-toll-bill-as-evs-hit-fuel-duty-revenue

They have set a precedent, just look at how they changed VED recently as more and more cars attracted zero VED.
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Read the article beyond its headline, it says
The researchers have suggested a levy of 7.5p per mile be introduced by 2030, rising to 9.1p per mile by 2040. Other major countries, including the US, China and Germany, have also been advised to consider the concept.
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Meaning all cars will be treated equal, ICE cars and EV will both get hit by this research proposed tax.

Existing saves on EV due to much cheaper fuel cost will not change.

nilagin said:
Ford already have 3 suppliers for EV and hybrid batteries.
The announcement wasn't about building a factory for EV's it was about which existing factory had been chosen to be their 2nd factory for building Ev's alongside other vehicles so those factories could run economically close to capacity. You were obviously hoodwinked into believing the investment was about EV but it is just normal investment to retool a factory and part of the investment is for the next generation Mustang.
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Thanks for clearing this up. Obviously EV news sources taken that and simply print as "Ford invested in EV factory". It's this level of lousy journalism I hate.
 
nilagin said:
So Tesla have caught up with traditional ice manufacturers that only require biannual servicing.
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Difference is: servicing is not mandatory. Not carrying out recommended filter change won't automatically invalidate warranty. (sorry for so many not's)

For example, you can drive 7 years 90k miles without ever needing to spend a penny on servicing or visit any workshop. Your car will still be able to claim their drivetrain warranty (8 years). The cabin air might not be the best quality, but the filter is an easy DIY job.
 
wuyanxu said:
Difference is: servicing is not mandatory. Not carrying out recommended filter change won't automatically invalidate warranty. (sorry for so many not's)

For example, you can drive 7 years 90k miles without ever needing to spend a penny on servicing or visit any workshop. Your car will still be able to claim their drivetrain warranty (8 years). The cabin air might not be the best quality, but the filter is an easy DIY job.
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The rest of the car should still be serviced though and in most countries require an MOT.
 
The researchers in the AutoExpress article suggest the Govt should abandon fuel duty in favour of adopting a mileage charge. This would significantly reduce the ICE fuel costs. Fuel duty is currently around 58p per litre, with another 20% VAT on top of that.
 
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broc said:
The researchers in the AutoExpress article suggest the Govt should abandon fuel duty in favour of adopting a mileage charge. This would significantly reduce the ICE fuel costs. Fuel duty is currently around 58p per litre, with another 20% VAT on top of that.
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I'm guessing it will still have to take emissions into account otherwise we could all jump into gas guzzling V8 and V10's. :D
 
Last time road pricing was proposed there was a petition of nearly 2 million signatories which knocked it straight on the head. I'd imagine if they tried it again the result would be the same.

Much better to increase VED. Everyone uses the roads and benefits from them. Everyone needs to pay something whether it's through VED or through income tax or business taxes.

Road pricing involves a load of complicated technology, lack of privacy and usually some over priced and under talented government contractor like Capita that will screw it up and cost us billions more than just slapping a bit more on VED.
 
srichards said:
Last time road pricing was proposed there was a petition of nearly 2 million signatories which knocked it straight on the head. I'd imagine if they tried it again the result would be the same.

Much better to increase VED. Everyone uses the roads and benefits from them. Everyone needs to pay something whether it's through VED or through income tax or business taxes.

Road pricing involves a load of complicated technology, lack of privacy and usually some over priced and under talented government contractor like Capita that will screw it up and cost us billions more than just slapping a bit more on VED.
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TBH this makes a lot of sense, though the 'problem' is that some will see it as unfair that the high-mileage users don't pay more as they presently do with fuel duty.
 
wuyanxu said:
Again, you have ignored the elephant in the room: total ownership cost, that is a combination of buying and running cost.

What was the reason most people switched from petrol to diesel in early 2000's? fuel economy. Diesel cost slightly more to purchase, but traveling salesman will end up spending slightly less at fuel pump to cover the same distance. Now, you can cover the same distance in the EV at 1/3 or 1/4 of the cost.

With the Niro example and EV in general, you spend less to own and drive the EV over 3 years 30k miles. No one is saying the EV Niro is cheaper to buy, a point you seems to think is disputed and very important. But as I have been saying from many many pages ago: despite EV is more expensive to buy, overall total ownership cost will be cheaper.

As long as a few prerequisites* are met, and there is an EV in the desired bodystyle, EV will be cheaper to own and run than equivalent model.
*Prerequisites: Driveway, Able to get home charger installed (permission/ownership), Daily mileage within EV range, Willingness to try new stuff.


Good, but late, start. A slow follower.

Yet, it's only plants to put vehicle together. VW have seen the problem with high EV production numbers and have already invested in building battery factories. Tesla is already started building its second battery factory.
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But they are not!!!

Just been onto Kia website - Looked at Soul and Soul EV and used the following:

Soul 1.6 GDi - £17,480 OTR - The EV model is £26,000 (includes 3.5k grant and 1k customer offer. It's 8.5k more than the ICE version.

Combined MPG of 43, very rough figures of 400 or so miles out of a tank, £1,500 a year on fuel. So after 3 years i have spent £4.5k on fuel so are still £4k out of pocket. It wouldn't work PCP values (and these numbers are rough) but I would need the EV to be worth 4k more than the other car in 3 years time to break even.
 
srichards said:
Last time road pricing was proposed there was a petition of nearly 2 million signatories which knocked it straight on the head. I'd imagine if they tried it again the result would be the same.

Much better to increase VED. Everyone uses the roads and benefits from them. Everyone needs to pay something whether it's through VED or through income tax or business taxes.

Road pricing involves a load of complicated technology, lack of privacy and usually some over priced and under talented government contractor like Capita that will screw it up and cost us billions more than just slapping a bit more on VED.
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Don't like that. The lower user won't 'wear out the road' as much as others and makes it much more expensive to own a car for a light user. Pricing on the miles you do is a fairer way.

Or would you propose that we all pay the same council tax regardless of house size / value?
 
I would propose 10p a litre on diesel per year including hgv
 
Mr Bump said:
I would propose 10p a litre on diesel per year including hgv
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I would propose an extra 10p on every item of food you buy, and that's probably totally underestimating it.
 
cambsno said:
But they are not!!!

Just been onto Kia website - Looked at Soul and Soul EV and used the following:

Soul 1.6 GDi - £17,480 OTR - The EV model is £26,000 (includes 3.5k grant and 1k customer offer. It's 8.5k more than the ICE version.

Combined MPG of 43, very rough figures of 400 or so miles out of a tank, £1,500 a year on fuel. So after 3 years i have spent £4.5k on fuel so are still £4k out of pocket. It wouldn't work PCP values (and these numbers are rough) but I would need the EV to be worth 4k more than the other car in 3 years time to break even.
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According to Kia's own figures the Soul EV is worth about £1.5k more than it's petrol variant so you would need to keep the car considerably longer to break even.
 
While we are on this subject. What is the cost on the environment with the recycling of the used batteries. Maybe battery power isn’t the answer but just another pollutant
 
When EV batteries are considered too inefficient for continued use in EVs, they can be repurposed for home power storage.
 
cambsno said:
But they are not!!!

Just been onto Kia website - Looked at Soul and Soul EV and used the following:

Soul 1.6 GDi - £17,480 OTR - The EV model is £26,000 (includes 3.5k grant and 1k customer offer. It's 8.5k more than the ICE version.

Combined MPG of 43, very rough figures of 400 or so miles out of a tank, £1,500 a year on fuel. So after 3 years i have spent £4.5k on fuel so are still £4k out of pocket. It wouldn't work PCP values (and these numbers are rough) but I would need the EV to be worth 4k more than the other car in 3 years time to break even.
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I looked on Kia's website, their cheapest automatic is a "2" starting at £20k. The Soul EV is closer to their top spec "Sport" than "2" trim level, "Sport" is £23,980 OTR.
https://www.kia.com/uk/utility/build-your-kia.carcode.soul/#/trim

Then, according to your calculation on a lower spec, poor performance. manual version of Soul. You are £4000 out of pocket after 3 years, ignoring the fact the EV would be likely to worth ~£4000 more than the lower spec car come trade-in time. Because apparently, industry standard is 50-60% depreciation first 3 years. So you would have lost ~£4500 more on the EV than ICE car.

Are you sure EV are not cheaper???

nilagin said:
According to Kia's own figures the Soul EV is worth about £1.5k more than it's petrol variant so you would need to keep the car considerably longer to break even.
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£1500 is a year's of petrol (according to @cambsno), less than 2 years to make driving EV a cheaper experience. Use the car for 3 years and you'd be laughing to the bank thanks to fuel cost savings.

Soul EV servicing, according to this 2018 forum thread, is £199 for 3 years service pack including 3rd year MOT.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/servicing-your-soul-ev.101769/#post-1860985

nilagin said:
The rest of the car should still be serviced though and in most countries require an MOT.
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The rest of the car are more inspection. Not much actual work is done other than eyeballs on the parts. Done with MOT, I don't expect this to be very expensive.

In fact, James Cook on his latest youtube video said he is having his Tesla Model S serviced after 50k miles from previous servicing. Which ICE car can go 50k miles without being off the road to change: engine oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter?
 
wuyanxu said:
Then, according to your calculation on a lower spec, poor performance. manual version of Soul. You are £4000 out of pocket after 3 years, ignoring the fact the EV would be likely to worth ~£4000 more than the lower spec car come trade-in time. Because apparently, industry standard is 50-60% depreciation first 3 years. So you would have lost ~£4500 more on the EV than ICE car.

Are you sure EV are not cheaper???


£1500 is a year's of petrol (according to @cambsno), less than 2 years to make driving EV a cheaper experience. Use the car for 3 years and you'd be laughing to the bank thanks to fuel cost savings.
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No you misunderstand, Kia's own figures state the Soul EV will be worth approx. £1500 more than the Soul after 3yrs, not the £4k you are guessing at so you won't have broken even by then, you would have had to keep the EV longer than 3ys to break even.
The Soul on Pcp requires a deposit of £4950 plus 36 payments of £298.58.
Total £13698.88
Soul EV requires a deposit of £6100 Plus 36 payments of £417.37
Total £21125.32
That is without buying either vehicle at the end, which if you did would cost you around £1500 more to buy the EV than the settlement figure for the ice version.
 
srichards said:
Last time road pricing was proposed there was a petition of nearly 2 million signatories which knocked it straight on the head. I'd imagine if they tried it again the result would be the same.

Much better to increase VED. Everyone uses the roads and benefits from them. Everyone needs to pay something whether it's through VED or through income tax or business taxes.

Road pricing involves a load of complicated technology, lack of privacy and usually some over priced and under talented government contractor like Capita that will screw it up and cost us billions more than just slapping a bit more on VED.
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While I think this is what likely will happen, I think there are better ways to tax EV's that doesn't unfairly penalise low mileage drivers.

Tax EV annually according to their battery size, tax EV fuel according to their demand on the grid. The higher demand you put on the grid, the more cost in infrastructure and the more likely your power comes from fossil fuel power station. So encourages people to plug in their cars at night or during office hours, and only the extremely high mileage drivers who are always on the road will be worse off.

Currently it costs 12p to 30p per kWh on 50-120kW quick chargers. 5p to 15p on slower 7kW destination chargers. Rapid charger are only designed for people who drive long distances. Most people charge their EV at their destination, don't need to stop middle of a journey to refuel. So putting the tax on rapid chargers will mean low mileage drivers will not be unfairly penalised while the high mileage drivers also help pay for the infrastructure they require.

But quick charger tax will push people to buy bigger battery. That means unnecessary pollution from production of unnecessarily big batteries. So EV to be taxed annually on battery size. For example:
  • sub 40kWh battery (good for 160 miles, covers most people commute) - £30 tax
  • 40 to 70kWh battery (good for 240 miles) - £60 tax
  • 71 to 100kWh battery (good for 350 miles) - £120 tax
  • 101kWh or larger battery - £180 tax
  • range extended EV (where most miles driven in EV mode, i3 REx, Ampera, new London taxi) - plus £50 tax on top of EV battery tax
  • Plug-in hybrid - £200
  • Other hybrid, but no option to plug-in - £280
  • normal petrol - £300
  • normal diesel - £320
Like the CO2 based VED, this will encourage manufacturers to strive to get most range from a modest battery. Not Jag I-Pace or ETron kind of wastefully putting 90 or 95kWh battery to achieve sub 300 miles.
 
nilagin said:
No you misunderstand, Kia's own figures state the Soul EV will be worth approx. £1500 more than the Soul after 3yrs, not the £4k you are guessing at so you won't have broken even by then, you would have had to keep the EV longer than 3ys to break even.
The Soul on Pcp requires a deposit of £4950 plus 36 payments of £298.58.
Total £13698.88
Soul EV requires a deposit of £6100 Plus 36 payments of £417.37
Total £21125.32
That is without buying either vehicle at the end, which if you did would cost you around £1500 more to buy the EV than the settlement figure for the ice version.
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Which version of Soul is for that price? Are the APR figure same for both?

EV is currently in high demand, people who are not in denial are not stupid, so PCP deals are more likely to help shift stock for fossil fuel versions. Hence I always look at OTR price, that's a clearer indication without the number's games.

Besides, the CAP prediction may be wrong for EV, 2021 sees expansion of London ULEZ. In 3 years time, there may be a big demand for used 3 year old EV's, while there isn't a lot of EV's shipped today.
 
wuyanxu said:
Soul EV servicing, according to this 2018 forum thread, is £199 for 3 years service pack including 3rd year MOT.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/servicing-your-soul-ev.101769/#post-1860985


The rest of the car are more inspection. Not much actual work is done other than eyeballs on the parts. Done with MOT, I don't expect this to be very expensive.

In fact, James Cook on his latest youtube video said he is having his Tesla Model S serviced after 50k miles from previous servicing. Which ICE car can go 50k miles without being off the road to change: engine oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter?
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From the Kia site the Soul service plan would cost £329, up to 5 MoT's can be added at a cost of £35 each.
The Soul EV service plan costs £239 and again up to 5 MoT's at an extra £35 each.
Just because a lot of a service is just a visual check it doesn't mean they shouldn't be done and waiting 3yrs until the first MOT is dangerous in my opinion. You are going to end up with a lot of people driving around on bald tyres etc. because people aren't going to check for something the dealership would have advised of in a previous service. It will be interesting to know how they could monitor the car for it's paint and corrosion warranty as well.
 
wuyanxu said:
Which version of Soul is for that price? Are the APR figure same for both?

EV is currently in high demand, people who are not in denial are not stupid, so PCP deals are more likely to help shift stock for fossil fuel versions. Hence I always look at OTR price, that's a clearer indication without the number's games.

Besides, the CAP prediction may be wrong for EV, 2021 sees expansion of London ULEZ. In 3 years time, there may be a big demand for used 3 year old EV's, while there isn't a lot of EV's shipped today.
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The Apr on any Kia Soul is the same regardless of powertrain. I can't remember which model the ice figures came from.

Not sure how otr price gives you a clearer indication of anything other than the EV price is higher.
 
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nilagin said:
Not sure how otr price gives you a clearer indication of anything other than the EV price is higher.
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PCP deals include a lot of variations. "PCP contribution", CAP prediction variations, APR rate variations, your deposit amount, etc.
OTR price is the maximum you are asked to pay by a manufacturer to put the car on the road in front of your house. It is a clear indication of the cost of the car.

nilagin said:
From the Kia site the Soul service plan would cost £329, up to 5 MoT's can be added at a cost of £35 each.
The Soul EV service plan costs £239 and again up to 5 MoT's at an extra £35 each.
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Another £90 saved by driving EV :)
 
wuyanxu said:
I looked on Kia's website, their cheapest automatic is a "2" starting at £20k. The Soul EV is closer to their top spec "Sport" than "2" trim level, "Sport" is £23,980 OTR.
https://www.kia.com/uk/utility/build-your-kia.carcode.soul/#/trim

Then, according to your calculation on a lower spec, poor performance. manual version of Soul. You are £4000 out of pocket after 3 years, ignoring the fact the EV would be likely to worth ~£4000 more than the lower spec car come trade-in time. Because apparently, industry standard is 50-60% depreciation first 3 years. So you would have lost ~£4500 more on the EV than ICE car.

Are you sure EV are not cheaper???


£1500 is a year's of petrol (according to @cambsno), less than 2 years to make driving EV a cheaper experience. Use the car for 3 years and you'd be laughing to the bank thanks to fuel cost savings.

Soul EV servicing, according to this 2018 forum thread, is £199 for 3 years service pack including 3rd year MOT.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/servicing-your-soul-ev.101769/#post-1860985


The rest of the car are more inspection. Not much actual work is done other than eyeballs on the parts. Done with MOT, I don't expect this to be very expensive.

In fact, James Cook on his latest youtube video said he is having his Tesla Model S serviced after 50k miles from previous servicing. Which ICE car can go 50k miles without being off the road to change: engine oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter?
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But I wouldn't want an auto. If I was buying a car (and I did buy a Kia Stonic recently) the 2 model would be perfect for me. The EV model is more spec than I need but I would have no choice as there is not a lower spec model.
 
wuyanxu said:
PCP deals include a lot of variations. "PCP contribution", CAP prediction variations, APR rate variations, your deposit amount, etc.
OTR price is the maximum you are asked to pay by a manufacturer to put the car on the road in front of your house. It is a clear indication of the cost of the car.


Another £90 saved by driving EV :)
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The pcp figures I quoted used the same percentage of otr price for both vehicles. Increasing the ice deposit would reduce the monthly payment and mean less interest paid meaning you would pay even less over all. Reducing the EV deposit to that of the ice vehicle would increase the monthly payment and overall cost. Either way the EV will cost a lot more even without buying fuel and £90 less on the service plan isn't going to make a dent in the difference.
 
Kia struggling to meet demand
https://www.am-online.com/dealer-ma...-leaves-kia-dealers-with-a-potential-headache
Whilst demand for Tesla could be on the downturn.
https://amp.ft.com/content/2bf2e2ea-4f0c-11e9-b401-8d9ef1626294
Tesla being accused of delaying delivery of standard Model 3 and trying to up sell to more expensive models.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...oQx7wDCDMwBg&usg=AOvVaw3Mwz5-QtQ3nai1AJ8Nk24c
Tesla poor build quality.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...YwEA&usg=AOvVaw2mrbYhDMLWYXaZcMRu4zDp&ampcf=1
 
FT page is behind a paywall.

And no other manufacturer has ever upsold?

Or had QC problems?
 
Kia spokesmen says:
“Various manufacturers will be launching new EV models this year, but we are all chasing sufficient lithium and battery packs. It will be a restraining factor for the next 12-18 months – we just don’t have sufficient supply at the moment,” said Kitson.
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Hum..... I wonder which EV manufacturer have their own battery factory up and running right now? Which EV manufacturer can deliver their EV in a timely manner.

The demand can be clearly seen as EV's selling out fast, 1 year of allocated supply sold out within 7 weeks of orderbook open. But somehow, Ford (or someone works on ICE at Ford) still thinks there is no demand for EV........ I wonder why they say that.......

"We don't have any EV for sale, let's keep selling polluting cars and throw dirt on the EV leader so people will continue to buy our ICE cars"
 
wuyanxu said:
Kia spokesmen says:


Hum..... I wonder which EV manufacturer have their own battery factory up and running right now? Which EV manufacturer can deliver their EV in a timely manner.

The demand can be clearly seen as EV's selling out fast, 1 year of allocated supply sold out within 7 weeks of orderbook open. But somehow, Ford (or someone works on ICE at Ford) still thinks there is no demand for EV........ I wonder why they say that.......

"We don't have any EV for sale, let's keep selling polluting cars and throw dirt on the EV leader so people will continue to buy our ICE cars"
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Kia's allocated 1 year supply was just 700 cars. I would hope they could sell out.
It hardly matters that Tesla manufacture their own batteries if demand for their cars is currently falling. That just means they will be losing more money and have to lay off more of their workforce.
 
Nod said:
FT page is behind a paywall.

And no other manufacturer has ever upsold?

Or had QC problems?
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Considering the price of Tesla cars and the fact that 86% of their cars have to go back into the factory for QC problems, you would expect very few problems after customers receive them.
 
I guess most manufacturers try to upsell on higher spec or options at the point of order, don't know of many that take an order, push back the delivery date and then try to upsell a higher spec car at that point at a cost to the customer.

If they can build the higher spec car that they want the customer to place a new order for then they can build the originally ordered cars, there are a lot of them so no excuse to say that it's too much trouble to change a production run, after all every other manufacturer can supply all models in a timely manner as previously agreed with the customer, why not Tesla.
 
nilagin said:
It hardly matters that Tesla manufacture their own batteries if demand for their cars is currently falling. That just means they will be losing more money and have to lay off more of their workforce.
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You keep telling yourself that, in your slow moving car industry. "Tesla will be bankrupt soon, let's bury our head in sand, the disruptor will go away soon."

Meanwhile, Model 3 is Europe's best selling EV. There must be a reason everyone want a Tesla as their EV......
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/tesla-model-3-europes-best-selling-electric-vehicle
As well as being the best-selling EV in Europe last month, the Model 3 was also the best-selling mid-sized saloon, outselling the conventionally fuelled Mercedes-Benz C-Class, BMW 3 Series and Audi A4.
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wuyanxu said:
You keep telling yourself that, in your slow moving car industry. "Tesla will be bankrupt soon, let's bury our head in sand, the disruptor will go away soon."

Meanwhile, Model 3 is Europe's best selling EV. There must be a reason everyone want a Tesla as their EV......
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/tesla-model-3-europes-best-selling-electric-vehicle
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Best selling or most cars registered because they have finally delivered the cars that the customers have been waiting for. If they can keep it up I will believe it. Odd that the item I linked to predicted that numbers are going to be about 15k short for the first quarter of 2019.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on Gas to Liquid diesel? I believe it is currently available at a Shell in Liverpool and it can have huge reductions with NOx, ash etc so good for DPFs. More expensive but that may change if it goes mainstream. I don't know enough about it but starting to take an interest.
 
gman said:
Anyone have any thoughts on Gas to Liquid diesel? I believe it is currently available at a Shell in Liverpool and it can have huge reductions with NOx, ash etc so good for DPFs. More expensive but that may change if it goes mainstream. I don't know enough about it but starting to take an interest.
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Saw a test vehicle at work last week that was diesel but giving off a strange smell, didn't smell like diesel, I now wonder if it could have been running on GTL.
 
nilagin said:
Saw a test vehicle at work last week that was diesel but giving off a strange smell, didn't smell like diesel, I now wonder if it could have been running on GTL.
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There's a guy on another forum who uses it exclusively in his car, I could ask him. I do wonder how much of the past diesel pollution has really been down to lack of proper attention/investment because the advancements now with euro 6 etc seem to be quite the turnaround.
 
Another serious study on how much damage diesel car drivers do to young peoples lungs.
So much evidence yet so little interest in diesel owners making a better choice.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47777103

diesel particles are even being found in pregnant woman placentas

"We know what pollution particles look like when they're in the cells elsewhere in the body particularly in the lungs, and the black bits that we're seeing in the placenta are a very similar shape and colour to those what making us think they could be pollution particles."
 
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