Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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Nice one DailyMail. Neil, your source of morning news has very high standard of journalism. ;)

Photo of a first-gen Nissan Leaf, and quote NEDC range of 160 miles (probably 30kWh version). You'd be lucky to get that with a 2018 40kW Leaf. Not surprised she had to get recovered, she did zero planning and drove without any knowledge of her car.
But then, which ICE car can get the NEDC fuel economy?

Then goes on to say the owner charges using a domestic outdoor socket. The owner bought brand new but didn't take advantage of free home charger install?
https://pod-point.com/offers/nissan-leaf-free-home-charging-point




Although the unreliable Ecotricity rapids are true. This is why I'd only recommend EV to local drivers who can live with home charging (eg. 70 miles per day for 24kWh Leaf; 100 miles for all other 30kWh EV; 220 miles per day for Hyundai Kona 64kWh). But let's face it, commuting 100 miles a day covers most people.
 
wuyanxu said:
Nice one DailyMail. Neil, your source of morning news has very high standard of journalism. ;)

Photo of a first-gen Nissan Leaf, and quote NEDC range of 160 miles (probably 30kWh version). You'd be lucky to get that with a 2018 40kW Leaf. Not surprised she had to get recovered, she did zero planning and drove without any knowledge of her car.
But then, which ICE car can get the NEDC fuel economy?

Then goes on to say the owner charges using a domestic outdoor socket. The owner bought brand new but didn't take advantage of free home charger install?
https://pod-point.com/offers/nissan-leaf-free-home-charging-point




Although the unreliable Ecotricity rapids are true. This is why I'd only recommend EV to local drivers who can live with home charging (eg. 70 miles per day for 24kWh Leaf; 100 miles for all other 30kWh EV; 220 miles per day for Hyundai Kona 64kWh). But let's face it, commuting 100 miles a day covers most people.
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Oh, so because she chose to write her experience for the Daily Mail, that makes it invalid.
She did plan the journey, you obviously decided to ignore the fact she had allowed 7hrs for a 5hr journey. That should have been more than enough for a couple of recharges.
Nice attempt at trying to save face, but just like the versatility of an EV in this case, you have failed. ;)
 
Yay for uneducated car ownership and circulating misinformation. Who cares about real world range when NEDC range is good enough for an article, who cares about faster home charging, who cares about the truth. Only DM would print that sort of thing and you know it.

How many times have I repeatedly commented on the unreliable public charging network? This is of the few-times-a-year type of trip, hardly representation of daily EV ownership experience. Everyday driving is perfectly suited to EV's.

It's like saying "Every so often I may need to transport my son's university stuff, so I must drive a Ford Galaxy."; "We may see a bit of snow, so we should buy a SUV."; "I may want to make more cup of tea, so I'll boil 5 cups of water for 1 cuppa."; "I may end up driving on a twisty mountain road, so I'll drive a hot hatch." ;)
 
So what you are now saying is get an EV for everyday use and f*** the environment for every other journey.
As we keep pointing out there are more than enough people on the road everyday that an EV would be an inconvenience. This case has highlighted the fact.
 
nilagin said:
Oh, so because she chose to write her experience for the Daily Mail, that makes it invalid.
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Its become very obvious from other threads, that all papers are gutter press, the only ones that aren't are the ones that print stuff that *they* agree with.

nilagin said:
What I like is the top 10 places with highest number of charge points per EV.
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#4 Milton Keynes :woot: off to buy an EV :thumbs:
Oh wait a minute I rarely drive around MK :(
 
Cobra said:
#4 Milton Keynes :woot: off to buy an EV (y)
Oh wait a minute I rarely drive around MK :(
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That's alright apparently they are only suitable for a short commute, use it just to get to the border then jump in a real vehicle for the rest of the day.(y)
 
Cobra said:
Its become very obvious from other threads, that all papers are gutter press, the only ones that aren't are the ones that print stuff that *they* agree with.
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That's nonsense. I read papers I don't agree with but draw the line at the Mail and the Sun. The Sun due to Hillsborough among many reasons. I have special contempt for the Mail because it deals in hate and hypocrisy as well as despicable sensationalism and lies masquerading as journalism. No other newspaper has as many PCC complaints against it. It's top of the list for transgressions monitored by IPSO - including breaking the Editors' code of practice and unreliable reporting. No UK mainstream newspaper has had to print more retractions. It's repeatedly accused by scientists of misrepresenting facts in medical and environmental issues. No newspaper has had to issue more retractions on issues regarding minorities, with a special shout out to the Muslim community here.

It's tabloid trash for people who think they're too good for tabloids. All statistics point to it being an unreliable source, and in fact, Wikipedia categorised it as such in 2017.

Oh, and they employed Katie f*****g Hopkins. There's a red flag the size of a tent if all the stuff above doesn't sway you.
 
nilagin said:
So what you are now saying is get an EV for everyday use and f*** the environment for every other journey.
As we keep pointing out there are more than enough people on the road everyday that an EV would be an inconvenience. This case has highlighted the fact.
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What percentage of your miles consist of everyday commute and shopping? What percentage can be covered by EV?
(disclaimer, not advocating you should switch to EV, because it seems my post are read like that. I am just pointing out the way people think about range should be changed when you can recharge at home)

I drive 60 mines for my commute, assume 220 working days, that's 13,200 miles a year. I drive 16,000 a year in total. So that's 82% of my mileage can be environmentally friendly by paying renewable energy company to generate my commute electricity. That's surely better than a big fat 0%.

This "case", again, is not really daily use. The lady would be mad to buy a first generation EV to drive 110 miles on a daily basis (even more mad by quoting NEDC range). Of course now, she can buy a Kona 64kWh and cover return trip of that distance without problem. With every year's technology advances, more and more people can cover their commute with an EV.
 
wuyanxu said:
Nice one DailyMail. Neil, your source of morning news has very high standard of journalism. ;)

Photo of a first-gen Nissan Leaf, and quote NEDC range of 160 miles (probably 30kWh version). You'd be lucky to get that with a 2018 40kW Leaf. Not surprised she had to get recovered, she did zero planning and drove without any knowledge of her car.
But then, which ICE car can get the NEDC fuel economy?

Then goes on to say the owner charges using a domestic outdoor socket. The owner bought brand new but didn't take advantage of free home charger install?
https://pod-point.com/offers/nissan-leaf-free-home-charging-point




Although the unreliable Ecotricity rapids are true. This is why I'd only recommend EV to local drivers who can live with home charging (eg. 70 miles per day for 24kWh Leaf; 100 miles for all other 30kWh EV; 220 miles per day for Hyundai Kona 64kWh). But let's face it, commuting 100 miles a day covers most people.
Click to expand...

Err, zero planning, she allowed extra time to charge on the way and knew where to charge. Did you did read the bit were she uses 4 apps on her phone. The issue she had were the available chargers were faulty, all of them, and were not going to be repaired until the following Monday at the earliest. Having all chargers faulty at 2 separate sites would suggest they do not get repaired in a timely manner if at all.

Haven't you and the other EV pushers been telling us that service station charging enables EV's to do those one or twice a year longer journeys?

I think her charging at home was not explained in enough detail to determine if she uses a home charger or not but hey ho if that's what you jump on to try to deflect then so be it.

As she pointed out she considered hiring a ICE car for the journey but considering the cost of the Leaf felt that it's a ludicrous additional expense.
 
It's ecotricity's fault. They have a shoddy lot of rubbish chargers and can't be arsed to fix them when they break. The sooner they're kicked off the motorways the better. Motorway fuel stops have to have fuel 24/7/365. If they have any interruptions then they are subject to fines and all sorts if it lasts too long. Nothing happens to ecotricity when someone can't charge.
 
decigallen said:
That's nonsense. I read papers I don't agree with but draw the line at the Mail and the Sun. The Sun due to Hillsborough among many reasons. I have special contempt for the Mail because it deals in hate and hypocrisy as well as despicable sensationalism and lies masquerading as journalism. No other newspaper has as many PCC complaints against it. It's top of the list for transgressions monitored by IPSO - including breaking the Editors' code of practice and unreliable reporting. No UK mainstream newspaper has had to print more retractions. It's repeatedly accused by scientists of misrepresenting facts in medical and environmental issues. No newspaper has had to issue more retractions on issues regarding minorities, with a special shout out to the Muslim community here.

It's tabloid trash for people who think they're too good for tabloids. All statistics point to it being an unreliable source, and in fact, Wikipedia categorised it as such in 2017.

Oh, and they employed Katie f*****g Hopkins. There's a red flag the size of a tent if all the stuff above doesn't sway you.
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I would assume that the positives from sensational headlines (regardless of accuracy) probably dwarfs the negatives from the corrections, complaints and lawsuits. Money and power increased, result for them. But on the flip side, there's a few media outlets who I find are not much better because they try and purport themselves as being righteous, ethical and trustworthy when in fact it's really just a thin veneer of credibility hiding their own agenda.

A rag well known for lies to create sensational headlines, or a supposed respected media outlet twisting the truth and manipulating facts to change the result. Which is more sinister. [rhetorical]

I take most of them with a bucket load of salt.
 
The only paper I buy is the Telegraph and that's twice a year - it's cheaper to buy the paper and get a free bottle of water with it than to buy the water (at Bristol Airport.) If I CBA, I'll do the crosswords and there's always someone who'll read it when we get to the hotel at the other end!
 
decigallen said:
That's nonsense. I read papers I don't agree with but draw the line at the Mail and the Sun.
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I rest my case (y)

Oh and BTW I haven't read a newspaper since I can't remember when.
 
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Cobra said:
I rest my case (y)

Oh and BTW I haven't read a newspaper since I can't remember when.
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Rest your case? I don't follow? I would assume that we're talking 'papers' we generally mean online editions these days. The content is the same.
 
gman said:
I would assume that the positives from sensational headlines (regardless of accuracy) probably dwarfs the negatives from the corrections, complaints and lawsuits. Money and power increased, result for them. But on the flip side, there's a few media outlets who I find are not much better because they try and purport themselves as being righteous, ethical and trustworthy when in fact it's really just a thin veneer of credibility hiding their own agenda.

A rag well known for lies to create sensational headlines, or a supposed respected media outlet twisting the truth and manipulating facts to change the result. Which is more sinister. [rhetorical]

I take most of them with a bucket load of salt.
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Would the average DM reader agree that the paper is sensationalist or inaccurate? The comments section online would suggest not.

Regarding retractions, there really should be a law or directive that retractions are printed on the same page and at the same size as the original egregious piece. A page 22 one paragraph retraction is not recompensing for a misleading and incendiary front page spread.
 
I read whatever is available and came to the conclusion many moons ago that ALL papers are crap.... we all seem to like the ones that reflect our world view/station/ whatever and think the rest is garbage but they really are pretty much the same.
 
gerry s said:
I read whatever is available and came to the conclusion many moons ago that ALL papers are crap.... we all seem to like the ones that reflect our world view/station/ whatever and think the rest is garbage but they really are pretty much the same.
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My point exactly :thumbs:
 
wuyanxu said:
What percentage of your miles consist of everyday commute and shopping? What percentage can be covered by EV?
(disclaimer, not advocating you should switch to EV, because it seems my post are read like that. I am just pointing out the way people think about range should be changed when you can recharge at home)
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I can't charge at home as I live in a flat and have no guaranteed parking space. We do have a few charge points in one car park at work, but there is no guarantee any will be available when I get there which would mean I would need to keep checking which I can't do as I am working. If a space is available I am expected to move my car as soon as it is charged which wouldn't always be possible as I am working so the number of miles in an EV I could do a day would be a big fat 0.
 
I suppose range extenders are probably the closest to an EV that those of us without driveways can be. You would still be fairly reliant on charging but at least you won't get completely stuck thanks to the small ICE. Once proper infrastructure is in place you could change to an EV.
 
Cobra said:
I rest my case (y)

Oh and BTW I haven't read a newspaper since I can't remember when.
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Are you being wilfully ignorant? Links have been posted to hate stories that were invented by the Daily Mail, and the subsequent retractions and apologies that they were forced to publish.
Links were also posted to lies about the European Union published by the Daily Express together with a step by step correction they were forced to publish.
Just because you don’t read papers does not change the fact that some of them peddle lies and provoke racial hatred. Now some may feel that the term “gutter press” is appropriate.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Are you being wilfully ignorant? Links have been posted to hate stories that were invented by the Daily Mail, and the subsequent retractions and apologies that they were forced to publish.
Links were also posted to lies about the European Union published by the Daily Express together with a step by step correction they were forced to publish.
Just because you don’t read papers does not change the fact that some of them peddle lies and provoke racial hatred. Now some may feel that the term “gutter press” is appropriate.
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Still doesn't mean the woman's EV experience was fabricated.
 
gman said:
Once proper infrastructure is in place you could change to an EV.
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But Ev's are still expensive to buy in the first place and from what I want from a car that is going to be very expensive and way out of my price range.
 
Sorry, but you're being disingenuous, @Cobra. I reject the sun on personal protest grounds unrelated to their political position - I haven't read a sun article in nearly 30 years. That's nothing to do with them agreeing or disagreeing with my position. My stance with the daily mail again isn't about me closing my ears to contrary opinion, but rather dangerous misinformation and misrepresentation of facts. ipso and pcc both point to the dm being off the scale in that regard - 3 times worse than the next closest paper. Should I be regularly reading breitbart, info wars and storm front before forming any opinion? No. I should be critically reading credible, informed sites both left and right, which I do. The DM fails in that regard.

And to blankedly assert "all papers are crap" is a patently ludicrous position too.
 
nilagin said:
But Ev's are still expensive to buy in the first place and from what I want from a car that is going to be very expensive and way out of my price range.
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I agree, far too expensive at the moment but as we all know that's the norm for new tech. I'm still quite keen on PHEVs as they would suit me more having the ICE backup and the performance is certainly there, even in the big SUVs. Makes considering something like a 6.4 HEMI Jeep insane, although it do like the exhaust note.
 
And yet, charging the Tesla via a diesel generator will still take less diesel than it would to power an ICE car of similar size and power.
 
decigallen said:
And yet, charging the Tesla via a diesel generator will still take less diesel than it would to power an ICE car of similar size and power.
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But diesel generators don't have to conform to the same emissions regulations as vehicles.
 
neil_g said:
Source.
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https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-charged-by-diesel-generator-cleaner-than-ice-wvideo/

Looks like a temporary solution, so I don't see why it's a problem. You can't say the same with the ICE embedded in your car. ;)


Battery electric vehicle is simply most efficient: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ficiency-vs-hydrogen-gasoline-diesel-analysis
How efficient is the most efficient ICE? 40% From charging to the wheels, EV are 85% efficient. If you scale diesel electricity generation and remember the diesel ICE only has to work at most efficient rev band, you can see how diesel powered EV is more efficient.


nilagin said:
[DailyMail link removed]
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I just saw EV forum's reaction to that article:
https://www.speakev.com/threads/daily-mail-writer-and-her-leaf-let-down-by-ecotricity.128414/
Similar to points I've raised.
 
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