Canon's new 700D anounced today.

dave_bass5

dave_bass5

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The 100d is sooo cute, its small, light and uses the standard lens mount this is what the M should have been. I can see this as being a great little backup or holiday camera, with the kit lens this thing weighs next to nothing, the AF seemed pretty fast and the wife liked the look of it as well.
 
I love the minimalistic styling of the 700D but not sure I like the way you will use it, not controll when camera is held to the eye, it apears you have to look at the rear screen and adjust settings via touch prior to aiming camera.
 
mark2002 said:
I love the minimalistic styling of the 700D but not sure I like the way you will use it, not controll when camera is held to the eye, it apears you have to look at the rear screen and adjust settings via touch prior to aiming camera.
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Looks similar to my 650d so the buttons are still there for you to use unless you were looking at the 100d? :E

The touchscreen is nice and works well but obviously it isn't much use if you're trying to change stuff without looking at it! That and it disables when you stick your face near the viewfinder so your nose doesn't start press stuff lol :)

Doesn't seem to be much difference between the 650 and 700d :/
 
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mark2002 said:
I love the minimalistic styling of the 700D but not sure I like the way you will use it, not controll when camera is held to the eye, it apears you have to look at the rear screen and adjust settings via touch prior to aiming camera.
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Are you sure?
 
The new kit lens seems like a significant upgrade, quiter, fulltime manual focusing and no rotating front element.
 
I think that after the M the 100D is more evidence that Canon are hoping that CSC's will crawl away and die so that they can keep on making their traditional DSLR's, DSLR's that largely fail to excite me personally as they never seem to bring anything exciting to the table for me, just small incremental or irrelevant changes from a company with a major market share but seemingly resistant to any real change.

The still camera industry generally doesn't seem to be going in the direction I'd like and as a Canon user I can't see myself buying anything new in Canon fit.
 
DSLR design is not really getting anywhere and maybe that is because the layout and functionality of the typical DSLR camera was already very good 12 years ago.
If you don't need a swivel screen or live view (which I don't), how much better is a current DSLR to actually use than say something like a 20D. It is all very small gains (apart from high ISO sensor improvements) and why I happily use old DSLRs
 
ernesto said:
DSLR design is not really getting anywhere and maybe that is because the layout and functionality of the typical DSLR camera was already very good 12 years ago.
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I cant agree with that, and it seems the camera manufacturers don't either.
What works for one might not work for others, but that doesn't mean things should stand still

A lot of things we use today are based on old designs, and even if they work fine there is nothing to say they cant be improved (although not every one gets it right of course)

Look at how all the pros were up in arms about video on a higher end DSLR. Blasphemy 6-7 years ago. How dare the big manufacturers bring something new to the DSLR world that was obviously not wanted and wouldn't be used.
I dont see anyone moaning about it now though, and in fact a lot of people buy DSLR's purely as video cameras.
 
Hopefully the new 700D will make a 650D more affordable for me!
 
dave_bass5 said:
I cant agree with that, and it seems the camera manufacturers don't either.
What works for one might not work for others, but that doesn't mean things should stand still
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I am referring to the look and feel of a DSLR. Some designs just work and any changes for the better are marginal. For example, bikes haven't fundamentally changed for decades, guitars haven't fundamentally changed for decades and so on. Materials change and get better, but the overall design remains the same.
 
hyeongsoong said:
Still the same sensor , must be 5 year old now ?
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From the specifications
"Continuous autofocus in movie mode with subject tracking"

Now correct me if im wrong but the only other Canon DSLR on the market before today that could do that was the 650D, which has a hybrid sensor in it, and thats definitely not 5 years old.

Maybe im missing something though.
 
woof woof said:
I think that after the M the 100D is more evidence that Canon are hoping that CSC's will crawl away and die so that they can keep on making their traditional DSLR's, DSLR's that largely fail to excite me personally as they never seem to bring anything exciting to the table for me, just small incremental or irrelevant changes from a company with a major market share but seemingly resistant to any real change.

The still camera industry generally doesn't seem to be going in the direction I'd like and as a Canon user I can't see myself buying anything new in Canon fit.
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I'd agree its not really an "exciting" advancement as we've seen with mirrorless but I'd argue that alot of such advancements with mirrorless have tended to be catchups to DSLR's performance.

If you were say looking at the OM-D or the GH3 then the 100D really isnt much different in size were as the 700D is obviously quite a bit larger, its not going to capture the ultra compact or stylish end of the market but that seems to be what Canon is after with its mirrorless.

To really exploit it though I'd say Canon need to offer more in the way of compact lenses, either a power zoom or a shorter pancake than the 40mm.

Not something I'm likely to use personally but again for me the new kit lens actually seems more interesting. If I was buying an entry level camera and didnt have the money to spend on a better lens I'd consider the ability to use a polarizer and grads plus not having to worry about forgetting to switch between AF and MF a considerable advanatge.
 
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hyeongsoong said:
Still the same sensor , must be 5 year old now ?
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Unless they made their old 18MP sensor a lot better (really doubt it). I'll repeat it again, nice sharp and ultra sensitive 12MP (no more!!!) please.

woof woof said:
I think that after the M the 100D is more evidence that Canon are hoping that CSC's will crawl away and die so that they can keep on making their traditional DSLR's, DSLR's that largely fail to excite me personally as they never seem to bring anything exciting to the table for me, just small incremental or irrelevant changes from a company with a major market share but seemingly resistant to any real change.

The still camera industry generally doesn't seem to be going in the direction I'd like and as a Canon user I can't see myself buying anything new in Canon fit.
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Fairly well summarised my thoughts here, and some accuse apple of being stagnant these days... Obviously my vision of camera may differ to yours :D but these ones are just so not exciting. There are so many things they need to innovate, at least touchscreen is a right place to start for one of them

edit:
Hybrid AF II only features in the EOS 100D, EOS 700D features Hybrid AF
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That is strange choice. So 100D can AF in movies a lot better than 700D... interesting. At least one of them moved a little step forward :bang:
 
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Moreorless said:
To really exploit it though I'd say Canon need to offer more in the way of compact lenses, either a power zoom or a shorter pancake than the 40mm.

Not something I'm likely to use personally but again for me the new kit lens actually seems more interesting. If I was buying an entry level camera and didnt have the money to spend on a better lens I'd consider the ability to use a polarizer and grads plus not having to worry about forgetting to switch between AF and MF a considerable advanatge.
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Agreed. http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_s_18_55mm_f_3_5_5_6_is_stm The MTF finally looks pretty nice and all the other features now make this lens a very good starting point. The only reason to upgrade to f/2.8 version is now light or shallow DOF photography, as opposed to general usability.

Why canon doesn't make compact and affordable primes is beyond me :shrug:. There is an old but excellent 85/1.8 USM. We need a decent 50/2 (or 1.4), a 35 or 2.8 f/2 and perhaps a 20 or 17mm f/2.8 or even f/4. Full frame would be nice. 40mm f/2.8 is fairly good, but a little slow for this length.
 
dave_bass5 said:
From the specifications
"Continuous autofocus in movie mode with subject tracking"

Now correct me if im wrong but the only other Canon DSLR on the market before today that could do that was the 650D, which has a hybrid sensor in it, and thats definitely not 5 years old.

Maybe im missing something though.
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That is the focus system not the actual sensor thought. According to Domark. even the D3100's sensor has more DR and iso range then 7D.
 
hyeongsoong said:
That is the focus system not the actual sensor thought.
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Oh really, can you show me where it says it uses the same 5 year old sensor?

dpreview on the 650D last year.
"The EOS 650D is Canon's attempt to meet these challenges head on, with new features aimed at improving its live view and video performance. It becomes Canon's first DSLR to offer continuous AF tracking while recording movies.

This is made possible by Canon's new 'Hybrid CMOS' sensor that now includes pixels dedicated to phase detection autofocus. The Hybrid AF system uses these to quickly set the lens to roughly the correct distance, then uses contrast detection AF to fine-tune focus. "

dpreview talking about the 700D
"Its Hybrid AF system was also brought over from the 650D, and while the simultaneously announced 100D/Rebel SL1's Hybrid AF II covers a wider area than the one here, neither is said to be any faster than the rather slow implementation on the 650D."

What am i missing here?
 
ljphil78 said:
The 100d is sooo cute, its small, light and uses the standard lens mount this is what the M should have been. I can see this as being a great little backup or holiday camera, with the kit lens this thing weighs next to nothing, the AF seemed pretty fast and the wife liked the look of it as well.
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I feel like 40mm on crop is not going to be everyone's cup of tea
 
What would get me interested would be 24mm/28mm pancake lens with IS, hopefully f2.8.

That pancake lens with this 100D would make the perfect camera for my girlfriend. She rarely zooms on her compact, and looking at her handbag size, 100D would fit easily. Then she can use my lenses if she need to.
 
dave_bass5 said:
Oh really, can you show me where it says it uses the same 5 year old sensor?

dpreview on the 650D last year.
"The EOS 650D is Canon's attempt to meet these challenges head on, with new features aimed at improving its live view and video performance. It becomes Canon's first DSLR to offer continuous AF tracking while recording movies.

This is made possible by Canon's new 'Hybrid CMOS' sensor that now includes pixels dedicated to phase detection autofocus. The Hybrid AF system uses these to quickly set the lens to roughly the correct distance, then uses contrast detection AF to fine-tune focus. "

dpreview talking about the 700D
"Its Hybrid AF system was also brought over from the 650D, and while the simultaneously announced 100D/Rebel SL1's Hybrid AF II covers a wider area than the one here, neither is said to be any faster than the rather slow implementation on the 650D."

What am i missing here?
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Your missing the fact that a few hybrid AF pixels isn't a new sensor, the meat and bones of Canon's 18mp crop sensor has been unchanged in years hence it falling steadily further and further behind the competition on dynamic range and iso performance.

It's not the end of the world as canons sensor isn't terrible it's just not as good as the competition and some would much rather see canon pushing the envelope on this instead of sitting back.
 
daugirdas said:
Why canon doesn't make compact and affordable primes is beyond me :shrug:. There is an old but excellent 85/1.8 USM. We need a decent 50/2 (or 1.4), a 35 or 2.8 f/2 and perhaps a 20 or 17mm f/2.8 or even f/4. Full frame would be nice. 40mm f/2.8 is fairly good, but a little slow for this length.
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We don't often agree on much but I share your thoughts here, Canon seem to be in the process of replacing the cheaper primes in the range that are desperately in need of updating but instead they are making them 3 times as expensive and putting them into direct competition with the superior offerings from Sigma.
 
dave_bass5 said:
Oh really, can you show me where it says it uses the same 5 year old sensor?

dpreview on the 650D last year.
"The EOS 650D is Canon's attempt to meet these challenges head on, with new features aimed at improving its live view and video performance. It becomes Canon's first DSLR to offer continuous AF tracking while recording movies.

This is made possible by Canon's new 'Hybrid CMOS' sensor that now includes pixels dedicated to phase detection autofocus. The Hybrid AF system uses these to quickly set the lens to roughly the correct distance, then uses contrast detection AF to fine-tune focus. "

dpreview talking about the 700D
"Its Hybrid AF system was also brought over from the 650D, and while the simultaneously announced 100D/Rebel SL1's Hybrid AF II covers a wider area than the one here, neither is said to be any faster than the rather slow implementation on the 650D."

What am i missing here?
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That is just the cannon marketing talk. The focus sensor may has been improved but not the actual image sensor itself. So it offer the same Dynamic range , ISO as 500D.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Ca...rand2)/Canon/(appareil3)/185|0/(brand3)/Canon

not much in it.
 
LPC-6 said:
I feel like 40mm on crop is not going to be everyone's cup of tea
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I was talking about the kit lens which is the 18-55mm not the 40mm pancake, which is probably the only lens the majority of this cameras target market will ever use on it. This thing felt more compact than I remember my old Panasonic bridge camera being (although that was a good few years ago)
 
a1ex2001 said:
Your missing the fact that a few hybrid AF pixels isn't a new sensor,.
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Im not missing anything. If its been changed in anyway then its new. Unless they have stuck them on over the top of the old one.
Im not commenting on whether its a good or bad sensor, whether IQ has improved or not, just that its not the same as was used 5 years ago.
As far as i recall back in 2008 there were no lower end 18mp sensors on Canon DSLRs.

Ill leave it at that unless some can show me im wrong.
 
Moreorless said:
I'd agree its not really an "exciting" advancement as we've seen with mirrorless but I'd argue that alot of such advancements with mirrorless have tended to be catchups to DSLR's performance.

If you were say looking at the OM-D or the GH3 then the 100D really isnt much different in size...
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But you have to look at the camera and lens package as a whole not just the body.

When MTF first came out it was just Panasonic and Olympus and although they brought something genuinely new to the table (a compact camera plus lens package that exceeded the image quality of a compact or bridge camera but didn't quite match the ultimate IQ of APS-C DSLR's) things have moved on now and CSC's now exceed the IQ of some APS-C DSLR's from Canon (this shouldn't be a surprise as the best IQ available from a CSC's is now from CSC's with APS-C chips that exceeds the IQ of Canon's APS-C chips whilst still offering an overall camera and lens package smaller than a traditional small DSLR.)

My gripe with camera systems and the direction they are going in is that for actual image quality some (like Canon) are arguably for some people (like me!!!!) treading water and not making any real and definite IQ progress. I also don't like the trend towards rear screen shooting with fly by wire no marking lenses and video, global positioning, tagging, in camera HDR and instant upload to Friendface are simply irrelevances to me.

Personally what I want is a direct replacement for the 35mm SLR's AND quality smaller 35mm RF/compact cameras I used to own and it beggars belief that after all these years of digital I'm still no nearer to directly replacing either.

To date MFT and other CSC offer the best hope for me but even they're not going in the direction I want.

Give me a camera and lens package even just a little bigger and heavier than my old 35mm SLR's and a smaller form RF form camera just a little bigger and heavier than the film cameras I used to own both with improved DR so skies don't blow out, give me lenses built for humans with a brain to use and a VF that doesn't want to burn a hole straight through my retina and I'll buy them both.

I know it's just me... :bang: :bonk: :(
 
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I'm not seeing much difference with it compared to the 650D. I'd rather just have my 600D.
 
I'd rather have my 650d than a 600d :P

It'll be interesting to see how different this 700d really is compared to the 650d. It doesn't seem like much has changed so either we're missing something or it's just a rebrand lol
 
Phal said:
I'd rather have my 650d than a 600d :P

It'll be interesting to see how different this 700d really is compared to the 650d. It doesn't seem like much has changed so either we're missing something or it's just a rebrand lol
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Depends on your use I guess, I'd rather have a 600D over a 650D.
 
TopBanana said:
Hopefully the new 700D will make a 650D more affordable for me!
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I thought the exact same thing when I saw this thread....the camera is in park camera's already.

lolage said:
Depends on your use I guess, I'd rather have a 600D over a 650D.
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Why do you say this, I am trying to decide between the two. Ok, I wouldn't pay the difference for the touch screen alone, but the AF in video mode is a good one (cue the barrage of abuse about using a DSLR for video!)
 
Even though I'm a film shooter, I am loving this baby 100D.

A tiny wee and hopefully reasonably priced camera that can hide in the corner of the bag until those occasions when a digital body is needed, that'll also accept my whole existing lens system.

It also seems to be getting the gear head's knickers in a twist on Dpreview with comments like 'it's not full frame and under $500 so EPIC FAIL CANON LOL' so that's another plus point in my book.
 
Frankly speaking, the only fresh and exciting tech from canon imaging division is the 1Dx and related video projects and a few lenses. Everything else is reuse, repackage, relabel (even 5DIII is an evolved 5DII and 1-series AF hybrid). We need something groundbreaking. I can't believe we still have to use optical grad filters or use physical shutter :shake:
If they are so conservative, why don't they buy out someone like olympus or tamron and a few clever software engineers? Pharma and software companies do this all the time.
 
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ljphil78 said:
I was talking about the kit lens which is the 18-55mm not the 40mm pancake, which is probably the only lens the majority of this cameras target market will ever use on it. This thing felt more compact than I remember my old Panasonic bridge camera being (although that was a good few years ago)
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Ahh, from the picture, it looked liked the 40mm pancake was what it was going to come with.

Agreed on the 18-55
 
dangerous bryan said:
Why do you say this, I am trying to decide between the two. Ok, I wouldn't pay the difference for the touch screen alone, but the AF in video mode is a good one (cue the barrage of abuse about using a DSLR for video!)
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This is mainly from a video use perspective, but:

I personally think the 600D has better video options than the 650D. Yes the 650D has autofocus, but thats really only use able with the STM lenses and even with an STM lens its not brilliant. Your far better using manual focus.

Also withthe 600D you can do a 3x digital zoom in camera which gives almost the same video quality. You can't do this with the 650D.
 
daugirdas said:
Agreed. http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_s_18_55mm_f_3_5_5_6_is_stm The MTF finally looks pretty nice and all the other features now make this lens a very good starting point. The only reason to upgrade to f/2.8 version is now light or shallow DOF photography, as opposed to general usability.

Why canon doesn't make compact and affordable primes is beyond me :shrug:. There is an old but excellent 85/1.8 USM. We need a decent 50/2 (or 1.4), a 35 or 2.8 f/2 and perhaps a 20 or 17mm f/2.8 or even f/4. Full frame would be nice. 40mm f/2.8 is fairly good, but a little slow for this length.
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I'm guessing before this camera there was probabley a belief that the market wasnt large enough but something similar to the EF-M 22mm F/2 lens in EF-S would obviously fit the 100D very well.

What I would say is that I think its important to get these kinds of lenses right, for all the problems with the EOS M's AF speed one thing you can say for it is that both lenses seem to be exellent performers, something Sony's NEX for example lacked in its equivilent lanch kit zoom and pancake(going from most reviews I'v seen anyway). The body will probabley be updated within a few months, the lenses will likely stay around much longer.
 
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dave_bass5 said:
Im not missing anything. If its been changed in anyway then its new. Unless they have stuck them on over the top of the old one.
Im not commenting on whether its a good or bad sensor, whether IQ has improved or not, just that its not the same as was used 5 years ago.
As far as i recall back in 2008 there were no lower end 18mp sensors on Canon DSLRs.

Ill leave it at that unless some can show me im wrong.
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Ok it's a totally new sensor :thinking: that just happens to perform almost identically to the one thats been in the 7D since 2009 ;)

In which case I take back what I said about it being a shame that canon persist with this old tech and instead say it's laughable that the brand new sensor can't out perform there own 4/5 year old tech let alone anything from Nikon/Sony in the last two years.

Which ever way you want to read it the 18MP crop CMOS sensor with or without hybrid af pixels that canon has put in all it's cameras since the 7D is now being significantly outperformed and needs to be replaced new or old.
 
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