Canon vs Nikon (not the usual argument)

timmygcsc2308

timmygcsc2308

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Hi guys,

right I've got ~£450 to spend on a dSLR now I've sent the Sony back (found it uncomfortable and more importantly lacking in 3rd party stuff).

I'm looking at either a 450D or a Nikon D80, both are £450 with an 18-55mm lens (but the Canon has £50 cashback). The liveview of the 450D would be a nice feature but I don't think it will be a deciding factor. Both feel comfortable to hold etc. and I don't want this thread to be a the 450D is the better camera or the D80 is the better camera, I can decide for myself the merits of each.

What I need help on and where I came acropper on the A200 was not knowing what is available for the camera in the way of accessories and lenses - or more to the point the prices. Sony have a good grounding with the Minolta lenses but the problem is, everyone is clamouring for the old Minolta lenses pushing the prices up. plus the lack of third party bits like battery grips and flashes made me think hmmm I should rethink my strategy (since, for the best part, I am not well endowed with cash).

So my question, and please make your answers objective and not brand loyalty orientated as much as poss., is out of Canon and Nikon who has the best 3rd party support & best availability and low cost of 2nd hand lenses, and infact new lenses too because anything decent in the Sony lineup new is quite a bit (e.g Sony don't produce a 50mm f/1.7, and the 50mm f/1.4 is over £200, but I know Canon have the 50mm f/1.8 for about £60)

I've tried google but all I get is either out of date stuff or brand loyalty (someone asked roughly the same question in the Nikon forum on flickr :cuckoo:)

TIA and hope my question made sense :$
 
I would go for the 450D as its newer technology. The D80 was a couple of years old and has been replaced with the D90.
However, if you could get a 40D by stretching the budget slightly (I've seen refurbs for £ 499 in jessops) then I would go for this.
 
timmygcsc2308 said:
So my question, and please make your answers objective and not brand loyalty orientated as much as poss., is out of Canon and Nikon who has the best 3rd party support & best availability and low cost of 2nd hand lenses, and infact new lenses too
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A few random observations:

The third-party lens suppliers generally make all their lenses in both Canon and Nikon mounts. There might be the odd difference here than there (e.g. the Sigma 55-200mm has HSM for the Nikon mount but not for Canon), but such differences are very minor.

Canon have a better range of telephoto lenses - Nikon don't have anything to match the 300mm f/4 L IS, the 400mm f/5.6 L, or the 100-400mm L IS.

Canon have a wider range of very fast lenses - Nikon don't have anything to match the 24mm f/1.4 L, 35mm f/1.4 L, 50mm f/1.2 L or 85mm f/1.2 L.

Nikon have a better flash system.

Nikon lenses tend to cost more than their direct Canon equivalents. (Though there are surprisingly few direct equivalents.)

Nikon cameras can use old manual focus lenses, though the price of their commitment to backwards-compatibility is that it can get a bit confusing working out what functionality you get with a given lens on a given camera. Canon cameras don't work with old manual focus lenses, but with their all-electronic system everything works reliably with everything else.
 
andrewc said:
I would go for the 450D as its newer technology. The D80 was a couple of years old and has been replaced with the D90.
However, if you could get a 40D by stretching the budget slightly (I've seen refurbs for £ 499 in jessops) then I would go for this.
Click to expand...

Thanks Andrew, ok thats fair enough - yea tell me about it would love a 40D but my budget is sorta strict - £500 absolute tops and getting a refurb for £500 would be body only so I'd be stuck with no lens.
I've found a UK 40D for £600 with the IS 18-55mm new so I'd be eligible for the cashback, but I'd have to sell the kit lens too and settle for a cheap prime - not ideal.

Oh and I held a 50D on Friday - me wants but me no has £800 ;)

StewartR said:
A few random observations:

.......
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Stewart, that was exactly the sort of answer I was after and reenforces my idea of getting a Canon :thumbs:
 
There are some ergonomic differences to be aware of.

Most (if not all) Nikons have a quick way of formatting your card (pushing 2 buttons together) where as in most Canons you have to go via the menus (I think the only one you don't have to is 1D MKIII)

Most (if not all) Nikons have the option to put an electronic 3rds grid in the display which you can switch on and off as you want.

and to expand on StewartR has said the Canon range of lenses is wider and specifically Canon have 70-200 f4 L and similar "Prosumer" lenses, where as Nikon don't have anything like these.
 
Both of the first 2 replies seem to cover the bases pretty well.

I have no doubt that either of the cameras that you are looking at will give you a lot of pleasure and unless you have some very strange requirements you would be well covered by third party manufacturers for the ancilliary kit you will need.

The received wisdom is that the Nikon system tends to offer easier handling than the Canon but as long as you persevere over the learning curve for the one you choose this should not really pose too much of an issue.

It is a very valid point that the D80 is now getting a bit long in the tooth and it is certainly the case that the D90 has a lot more to offer but this should not rule the D80 out of the equation.

As has already been stated, Nikon have been at great pains to ensure at least some measure of backward compatibility with every lens which they have manufactured for a very long time indeed. This means that the choice of glassware is vast and that just about whatever you require can be had. The downside of this is that you will have to be very careful indeed as to what you buy as some of the older lenses (spectacular in quality though they may be) may severely limit you as to the metering modes etc on a new body. Also the prices of the older lenses have been kept at a relatively high level - although of course a lot less than the new equivalent - due to the fact that there is a wider potential market for them.

I am not overly familiar with the secondhand market for Canon lenses - I know that the change from the FD mount means that there is a real cut-off point beyond which there is no compatibility at all and that the build quality of the early AF lenses left a lot to be desired but that still leaves a substantial pool of desirable kit to choose from. For quite a few years recently Canon had outsold Nikon, particularly at the top end of the market which would suggest that there may be a larger group of people after secondhand lenses which would again keep the prices higher.

Unlike the Sony/Minolta situation both the Canon and Nikon secondhand markets are relatively mature and stable which will make it far easier for you to judge the correct price to pay for secondhand kit.

As far as new lenses are concerned the Nikon 50mm f/1.8 as an example is comparable in price to the Canon equivalent but there are some areas of the range where the prices are widely divergant, although to be fair there are very few instances where it is possible to make an exact comparison as the product ranges are far from congruent.

As far as flashguns are concerned there is little to choose between the 2 - the Nikon has some advantage where off camera and multiple flash is concerned and third party support is not particularly outstanding for either unless you want to spend a lot of money on high-end Metz kit which at least offers the flexibility of the SCA adaptor system - attractive for me as I can use the same flash head with any of my cameras by just plugging a different connector in but clearly less of an advantage if you only have the one camera, also the price is very high indeed and the kit is not exactly light and compact!

Although your question made perfect sense it was perhaps a bit too generalised to allow for anything other than generalised answers - if you can come up with at least some idea of what exactly you will be needing in the forseeable future the answers could be more specific and helpful.
 
SimonTALM said:
There are some ergonomic differences to be aware of.

Most (if not all) Nikons have a quick way of formatting your card (pushing 2 buttons together) where as in most Canons you have to go via the menus (I think the only one you don't have to is 1D MKIII)

Most (if not all) Nikons have the option to put an electronic 3rds grid in the display which you can switch on and off as you want.

and to expand on StewartR has said the Canon range of lenses is wider and specifically Canon have 70-200 f4 L and similar "Prosumer" lenses, where as Nikon don't have anything like these.
Click to expand...

Thanks Simon,
1) Not really bothered about that I don't think - I would probably format the card on the PC anyway (and I like the SD/SDHC of the 450D since I have 100's of them laying around whereas I had to buy a new CF card for the A200)

2) Is that useful? I mean how gimmicky is it or is it a genuinly useful feature that could make or break a deal

3) Thats very important in my decision, I was aware that Canon hada range of prosumer lenses but didn't realise Nikon didn't so thankyou for pointing that out

edit:
WOW Nico thankyou for such a detailed answer! really what you've written will be a really great help and I think everyones answers are adding up to the Canon. I have very small hands (smaller than my 12 year old sisters :$) and the 450D is quite small and lightweight - perfect for me. I checked out the 450D before I bought the Sony but couldn't afford it at the time - luckily I can get a full refund on the Sony. I just wanted to make sure that there is plenty available for the Canon and I won't run into another 'you must buy 1st party accessories only' scienario.
 
Have you actually help the cameras? Some people say the xxxd range of canons is a little small in the hand, i never found this with the 350d, but each to their own! :)

As Stewart said, most 3rd party companies make lenses with mounts for both Canon and Nikon, so you have no real problems there. What i would consider when making the final decision is:

"When i invest in a brand, will i eventually have enough cash to by specific brand lenses" If the answer is yes, then id say go with Canon, if the answer is "No, ill stick to third party lenses" then the decision is still undecided as specifed before, 3rd party companies usually make all their lenses in Canon and Nikon mounts.

What about an S5pro? Not sure how good they are with their 3rd party stuff outside of lenses, but am i totally right in thinking that they take Nikon mount lenses?

Mike
 
Forget the brand, go pick up the choices and handle them and decide which one you like the feel of best.
 
To get a good idea of the range of lenses and flashes available for the systems, get to Smiths tomorrow and pick up a copy of Amateur Photographer. There are plenty of ads in there for new and 2nd hand kit so you can see what's available and what sort of prices dealers charge for the kit. To see what fits you best, have a feel of some mates' kits or go to the shop you intend buying the kit from.
 
I use Canon gear (30D, 550EX, 17-40mm etc) for my work and have done so for seven year in some form or another. But when it came to buying my own gear for personal use back in January, I was in a similar predicamen to yout.

On the one hand, I was familiar with the Canon gear, the lenses and the flash, and I'd used Canon gear in the original EOS 35mm form so know the system. It's obviously good – enough people swear by Canon stuff the world over – and the prices were comparable to every other make. Also, the actual versaitility of the range, the fact that if you're a starter you can get cheap, useable lenses or if you're a pro, you buy top-end, high quality kit but pay the price to do so, was a big attraction.

However, I've always had a problem with the handling on the Canon bodies – they just feel too small for my 'strangler's hands' – so i opted for a Nikon D200 instead on the advice of a pro-friend who's used everything from a D70 to a D2X. It was totally new to me, I'd never used a Nikon before (apart from an FM2) but over the other competition - Sony/Pentax/Olympus - Nikon had the edge on paper. I was sorely tempted to get the Pentax 20D 'anniversary' model with the grip for under £600 originaally but just the whole range (or rather limited range) of Pentax gear put me off.

The main thing that sold Nikon to me though was a the range of lenses and accessories. The lenses they do, plus the 3rd party Siggys and Tokinas, all just seemed to represent what i wanted and at the right price. The two lenses that swung it for me to buy a D200 were the 18-70 kit lens (which I'd heard good reviews of) and the 80-200mm, which was a lens that really suited what I wanted (fast aperture, long zoom).

The SB800 flash also ticked my box. The Canon 550EX is a great flash but I just wanted the wireless tech of the Nikon that was superior to the Canon. Plus, it was considerably cheaper than a new 580EX or a used 550EX.

I didn't even test drive the D200 - I just had a good feeling about it.

Do I regret doing away with years of familiarity with Canon? In a sense I do because I can't use the lenses we have at work –*I'm stuck with my Nikon 18-70mm for the moment at the wide end of things. I did invest in the long zoom I was so sure I wanted but ended up getting a great deal (£400) on a Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 that was too good to pass over. That's a great piece of kit and now I have a range of 18-200mm to play with in just two lenses.

However, I've learned to get used to the difference between the Canon and the Nikon's interfaces and to be honest, I wouldn't go back. Yes, the newer Canon's may have more bells and whistles but that's not a factor to me. As long as there's a good, sensible layout, a proper feel in the hand and a reliable sensor I'm happy.

As for the lenses, the 10.5mm fisheye is my next point, or it could be the 11-16 f/2.8 Tokina - funds will decide that. I do miss using the Canon 17-40mm f/4, a brilliant lens, and wish there ws a Nikon alternative for the same money but hey ho, that's life.

I don't think there will be a clear winner between the two – they do so many good products between them that it's a case of taking the plunge I think. Sometimes the Nikon will win out on value and performance; other times it will be the Canon.

I honestly think you can get really, really stuck in a rut with this. Go with a gut feeling. At the end of the day, they are equally good. If you take just one great shot, the decision will be justified.
 
andrewc said:
I would go for the 450D as its newer technology. The D80 was a couple of years old and has been replaced with the D90.
However, if you could get a 40D by stretching the budget slightly (I've seen refurbs for £ 499 in jessops) then I would go for this.
Click to expand...

just been thinking about this, thinking about the major differences between a D80 and a D90

1) 10mpx vs 12mpx

2) Live view

3) able to record 720p video

so, 1 - most of my shots will be looked at on a computer screen and at the most printed 5" x 7", mebe a bit bigger like A4 but not A3 :shrug:

2- nice to have but not a deal breaker imo, would rather have a nice comfortable camera with plenty to choose from in the way of accessories

3- its a dSLR! I have a video camera and rarely use it, and never used the video on my compact cameras so would never use it on this.

I am going to go and take another feel of the D80 and ask to hold both to compare, I would rather have 10mpx and better metering and autofocus than live view and 12mpx.

The only other factor is sensor cleaning...important?

what about a niffty fiffty for the Nikons?
 
Niftys are about £80 I think for Nikons. That's the f/1.8.

I have a D200 that doesn't have sensor cleaning and as of yet, not had a problem. If you change lesnes a lot then maybe there's increased chance of dust getting in there, but I haven't experienced that yet.

Get the D80, spend the difference between it and the D90 on some nice additions like a flash or a lens. :)
 
specialman said:
Get the D80, spend the difference between it and the D90 on some nice additions like a flash or a lens. :)
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Agree, the D80 is serving me very well as my 1st dslr and saving my money for better glass. Live view and video mode on the D90 will not make for better pictures and the extra 2 mega pixels it has surely won't be that noticeable. The D80 is a steal at current prices.
 
timmygcsc2308 said:
just been thinking about this, thinking about the major differences between a D80 and a D90

1) 10mpx vs 12mpx

2) Live view

3) able to record 720p video

so, 1 - most of my shots will be looked at on a computer screen and at the most printed 5" x 7", mebe a bit bigger like A4 but not A3 :shrug:

2- nice to have but not a deal breaker imo, would rather have a nice comfortable camera with plenty to choose from in the way of accessories

3- its a dSLR! I have a video camera and rarely use it, and never used the video on my compact cameras so would never use it on this.

I am going to go and take another feel of the D80 and ask to hold both to compare, I would rather have 10mpx and better metering and autofocus than live view and 12mpx.

The only other factor is sensor cleaning...important?

what about a niffty fiffty for the Nikons?
Click to expand...

What about the little things that never make the feature list but do make a difference - eg the developments in AF accuracy, improvements on sensor noise and things like that?

So why not get a Canon 300D or a Nikon D70 instead and save a bundle?
 
StewartR said:
Canon cameras don't work with old manual focus lenses, but with their all-electronic system everything works reliably with everything else.
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Not that old manual glass is likely to be a selling point, but ...

Canon cameras don't work with old manual focus Canon lenses (there is an adapter available but it isn't cheap and adds another piece of glass to the equation to achieve infinity focus, so I wouldn't bother).

Canon cameras can use old manual focus M42 (eg. Zeiss)/Adaptall-2 (Tamron)/T-Mount lenses with the addition of a cheap converter (with no glass to degrade the image and no loss of infinity focus). They are also able to calculate the exposure properly with one of these lenses attached which I'm not sure a Nikon can do.

And to add a more useful point ...

New Canon cameras sometimes break compatibility with older third party lenses. Not sure about Nikon on this. Doesn't happen too often and Sigma will re-chip some models for free.
 
400D (£200), a 50mm (I refuse to use the "n" word :nono:) and a 55-200 IS and plenty of cash left over :thumbs:
 
Can you please link me to a 400d with the 55-200 IS lens pease, everyone keeps saying they're this much but I havn't had any luck finding one under 300 yet!
 
danwatson said:
Can you please link me to a 400d with the 55-200 IS lens pease, everyone keeps saying they're this much but I havn't had any luck finding one under 300 yet!
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sainsburys were pushing them out last week for £200. Good luck finding one now though. I bought one and sold for £320 - speculate to accumulate and all that.

Anyway...*cough* I'm going to buy the Nikon D80 :$ I went into jessops today and I put one to my eye then the other (D80 and 450D).
Two things that really struck me with the D80 over the 450D - one the feel and ergonomics, it was SO much more comfortable and felt much more of a camera - sorry 450D owners but it feels like a toy in comparison. The second thing, and this was really the killer, is the viewfinder. The 450D has a better viewfinder the n the Sony A200, and that struck me when I looked at the camera on Friday. Then today with the side by side comparison looking through the Canon I thought I was experiencing tunnel vision! The Nikon was just so bright and clear and I felt I could really work with it and focus on objects alot better - its absolutly incredible the difference it makes.
So there we go - Nikon it is. I'm confident there will be enough to keep me happy, not in the least that you can buy 3rd party battery grips from ebay for £30 :coat: I'm happy with the D80's limitations too.

On a slightly other note, I'm got my two Minoltas on ebay. I paid £95 for the pair (50mm and 35-105mm both metal bodied), and they've got 5 days left. Currently combined they're at £81 - this camera business could be quite lucrative if you know what to look for ;)
 
bod said:
New Canon cameras sometimes break compatibility with older third party lenses. Not sure about Nikon on this. Doesn't happen too often and Sigma will re-chip some models for free.
Click to expand...

There are two schools of thought on this...

You could argue that it's hardly Canon's fault that 3rd party manufacturers make non-100% compatible lenses for their system.

On the other hand, it's because Canon won't release their specs that Sigma et. al. are forced to reverse-engineer their Canon-compatible lenses, which inevitably means they don't get the linkage 100% correct.

I've been reluctant to get Sigma lenses for my 5D for this reason.

It would be interesting to know which manufacturers are happy to release their specs to Sigma and other third-party lens companies...

A.
 
timmygcsc2308 said:
sainsburys were pushing them out last week for £200. Good luck finding one now though. I bought one and sold for £320 - speculate to accumulate and all that.

Anyway...*cough* I'm going to buy the Nikon D80 :$ I went into jessops today and I put one to my eye then the other (D80 and 450D).
Two things that really struck me with the D80 over the 450D - one the feel and ergonomics, it was SO much more comfortable and felt much more of a camera - sorry 450D owners but it feels like a toy in comparison. The second thing, and this was really the killer, is the viewfinder. The 450D has a better viewfinder the n the Sony A200, and that struck me when I looked at the camera on Friday. Then today with the side by side comparison looking through the Canon I thought I was experiencing tunnel vision! The Nikon was just so bright and clear and I felt I could really work with it and focus on objects alot better - its absolutly incredible the difference it makes.
So there we go - Nikon it is. I'm confident there will be enough to keep me happy, not in the least that you can buy 3rd party battery grips from ebay for £30 :coat: I'm happy with the D80's limitations too.

On a slightly other note, I'm got my two Minoltas on ebay. I paid £95 for the pair (50mm and 35-105mm both metal bodied), and they've got 5 days left. Currently combined they're at £81 - this camera business could be quite lucrative if you know what to look for ;)
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Well done, now go see Betty for the cookies, you deserve them you clever cookie you :D

Gary.
 
I note your last post saying that you're very tempted to get the D80 (good choice IMO), only recently sold mine (was sorry to see it go, but I couldn't justify 4 cameras!!!).

However, before you place your order, have you got any friends that use either Canon or Nikon? If you do I would suggest considering that brand favorite (if you can't decide). The "borrow" / "pooling assets" factor is very useful.
 
Anorakus said:
There are two schools of thought on this...

You could argue that it's hardly Canon's fault that 3rd party manufacturers make non-100% compatible lenses for their system.

On the other hand, it's because Canon won't release their specs that Sigma et. al. are forced to reverse-engineer their Canon-compatible lenses, which inevitably means they don't get the linkage 100% correct.

I've been reluctant to get Sigma lenses for my 5D for this reason.

It would be interesting to know which manufacturers are happy to release their specs to Sigma and other third-party lens companies...

A.
Click to expand...

I suspect Sigma manufacture they're lenses in exactly the same way for every brand, Canon isn't special in not releasing lens specs.
I mean, its extremely unlikely any manufacturer would make it easy for customers to buy off brand glass in place of they're own.
Personally, I think there are very few gems in off brand lenses, I think you do the right thing sticking with Canon glass for that 5D, off brand always seems to fall down by some measure or another, but that's partly the reason they are cheaper.
 
Just an alternative to consider, if value for money is a high priority and you're on a tight budget.

Park Cameras are still doing the Olympus E510 twin lens kit (14-42mm and 40-150mm lenses with an equivalent range of 28-300mm) for £449.99.

That's some deal! ;)
 
goldenlight said:
Just an alternative to consider, if value for money is a high priority and you're on a tight budget.

Park Cameras are still doing the Olympus E510 twin lens kit (14-42mm and 40-150mm lenses with an equivalent range of 28-300mm) for £449.99.

That's some deal! ;)
Click to expand...

It is but the lens and 3rd party availability would be an issue imho. It wasn't a massive issue with the Sony but partly the reason for changing was the availability of 3rd party kit such as battery grips

specialman said:
Welcome to Nikon matey - no looking back :)
Click to expand...

I hope so. The Nikon just felt like such a nice camera to hold (though so does the 40D but thats too expensive), but where the Nikon really impressed me was the viewfinder and tbh that was the dealbreaker.
Should be getting it over the weekend/Monday (need it for Tuesday - Colchester Zoo for the Son's 2nd birthday)
 
Now when I compare my D200 (without the grip) to the 30D and 40D, they feel like diddy little toy cameras. The D200 with a grip feels SOOOOO much better than anything else bar a D3 or EOS 1D. Nikons just have that 'proper' camera feel.

oh, and the shutter has the satisfying CLUNK sound!! :)
 
specialman said:
Now when I compare my D200 (without the grip) to the 30D and 40D, they feel like diddy little toy cameras. The D200 with a grip feels SOOOOO much better than anything else bar a D3 or EOS 1D. Nikons just have that 'proper' camera feel.

oh, and the shutter has the satisfying CLUNK sound!! :)
Click to expand...

The only thing (apart from having a bit of cash invested in glass) that stopped me buying a 40D over the D300 were the ergonomics, if you take the price differential into account there's nothing wrong with it.

I wouldn't have said it felt like a "toy camera" :shrug:

Oh and the D300 with the MB-D10 grip handles better than the D200 ;)
 
Good choice with the D80, you won't be disappointed. What kind of photography are you into?
 
Although because you are investing in a system its not the be all and end all of the decision, I would say the 450D is a fair bit better than the D80.

Which of the two is better for lenses? Depends what you want really!

I have Canon kit at the moment but am moving to Nikon. The lens range on Nikon is different but the popular sizes are all there if you want them. The thing Nikon don't have are the sort of lenses that maybe once you understand what makes a truly good lens you'd probably avoid anyway (eg Canon 100-400 or 35-300). The only one I've seen that I would use that doesn't seem as good as the Canon is the 300 f4, which Nikons one optically seems as good, but lacks IS/VR.
 
devitt said:
Good choice with the D80, you won't be disappointed. What kind of photography are you into?
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bit of everything really, other than sport and fast moving. Still finding my feet atm, but done some portrait bits and some nature shots (spiders and the like) so yea its all good.

desantnik said:
Although because you are investing in a system its not the be all and end all of the decision, I would say the 450D is a fair bit better than the D80.
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pourquoi? because of the bells and whistles or because of the image quality & critical functions (such as autofocus and metering)?

MJ Stebbings said:
tut tut, should have gone with a second hand 40d! :D
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ha, maybe, but I've reserved my D80 at Jessops for collectings tomorrow :D
 
timmygcsc2308 said:
pourquoi? because of the bells and whistles or because of the image quality & critical functions (such as autofocus and metering)?
Click to expand...

Pas ce que the D80 struggles at even ISO400 and the AF is not as fast as the 450D and from what I have seen the metering is not as good either.

Also, the D80 was the equivalent to the 400D, although I would say the 400D was better for the above reasons... and then the 450D is better than the 400D on top...

I'm not biased here btw, although my sig says Canon blah blah, I'm chopping that for a D300 in the next couple of weeks.
 
desantnik said:
Pas ce que the D80 struggles at even ISO400 and the AF is not as fast as the 450D and from what I have seen the metering is not as good either.

Also, the D80 was the equivalent to the 400D, although I would say the 400D was better for the above reasons... and then the 450D is better than the 400D on top...

I'm not biased here btw, although my sig says Canon blah blah, I'm chopping that for a D300 in the next couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

Sacrebleu! what is this poor ISO performance you speak of? I've read a fair few reviews that actually note the D80 as having rather good ISO performance even at ISO 1600, and some rating it above the 400D.
Agreed on the AF, not that bothers me because I don't shoot fast subjects. The metering is subject to some debate as to whether it under exposes or not, but when you learn to tame it, aparently it will serve you very well (plus is allows for +/- 5 EV as oppose to Canons +/- 3 EV).

Trust me on this, in terms of build quality and overall look, feel and operation, the D80 is a class above the 400D and 450D, the D80 will take just as good pictures as either and tbh I'll be able to take better pictures if I'm holding a camera I feel comfortable with, with less gizmos, then a camera with all the gadgets such as live view but feels uncomfortable for me to hold.

EDIT: and to reinforce the point of comfortable camera, one of the massive bugbears for me of the Sony A200 was having to press and hold a button then turn the scroller wheel to change the aperture. The Nikon has two scroll wheels, one for aperture, one for shutter speed.
 
I'm only going on one of mes amis that I go tog'ing with... he had a D80 to start with (and now a D300) and his comment only the other day when we were faced with a very dark, rainy motorcross event was that "if I still had the D80, I'd be f*****"...

The D80's ISO400 is about the same as the Canon's ISO800.

Still, you've only got my word on that one, but you did ask!
 
desantnik said:
I'm only going on one of mes amis that I go tog'ing with... he had a D80 to start with (and now a D300) and his comment only the other day when we were faced with a very dark, rainy motorcross event was that "if I still had the D80, I'd be f*****"...

The D80's ISO400 is about the same as the Canon's ISO800.

Still, you've only got my word on that one, but you did ask!
Click to expand...

argh d'accord....

can any D80 owners confirm this? I mean...obviously the D300 will have better ISO performance but hmmm most if not all places rate the D80 as being very good at even ISO1600 (its got to be better than the Sony whatever anyway)
 
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