Canon v Nikon for novice!

Barney Strumble

Barney Strumble

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Hi, I'm looking for some advice on which Dslr would be suitable for a novice, I've only used point and shoot camera's before, so haven't a clue on using Dslr's, my last camera was a Gopro 3 the black edition, which I sold recently because I wasn't happy with no zoom function, but must say the video and still shots it produced where good.

So which model do you think would suite someone looking to shoot a mix of video and pics, with good zoom ability. I don't want to plash out to much being novice, so my buget is £550-ish.

There's two models I have in mind at the moment, not sure which ones best. Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1948185.htm

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1298024.htm

Regards

Barney.
 
Which ever you feel happier with :)
Best thing to do is handle them both and see which you prefer and suits you best
 
For photos: absolutely no difference. Go with whatever feels right in your hand.

For video: Canon. The Nikon firmware for video is buggy as hell. Although they may have sorted that out now.

(Conflict of interest statement: I use Nikon)
 
All current DSLRs and most of the older ones are very good. Canon and Nikon have the widest range of OEM lenses and accessories.

Canon and Nikon have different ergonomics and controls (which do the same things). Neither is better than the other, it's just a matter of personal preference. Try to handle both cameras and see which feels more comfortable, but take the chance to try a few others too.

The Canon 600D is a step up from the Nikon D3100 in my opinion, and I'd probably choose it, but only if it passed the "handling test" for me. None of the lenses are stellar but the two 18 - 55mm short zooms are competent enough. The Nikon package effectively comes with a "free" 55 - 200mm tele-zoom too, but I wouldn't buy it just to get a low end tele-zoom thrown in. Trust your feelings when you handle the cameras and buy the one that feels better.
 
vRSG60 said:
Comparison here.
I see the Canon has a built in focus motor. I didn't think Canons had built in motors and all auto focusing was in the lens. Ah well, you learn something new everyday.
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No you don't. You were right the first time.

You don't even need to think about focus motors with Canons, because the EOS system has a coherent AF design so any EOS body will happily AF with any EF lens. It's only with Nikons that you have to worry about two different AF systems and whether the ones in your camera and lens are the same.
 
At the entry-level end..
  • If you're likely to buy a camera and lens and stick with what comes in the box and nothing else.. it doesn't matter, there's not a significant difference between the two for genuine novice use.
  • If your Dad/Uncle/Grandfather has an old film camera and you fancy having a play with their old lenses, go with the Canon (unless it's old Nikon gear that they have, if it's older pre-EOS Canon gear you need to be looking at one of the CSC brands - Panasonic/Olympus m4/3 or Fuji-X).
  • If you think you're likely to get a bit keen and start buying other lenses - the Canon edges it marginally, but only because Nikon skimp on the focus motor in the entry-level camera bodies.
  • If you want to have serious play with video, go with Canon.
For me, Canon just nudges it for Nikon on balance at the entry-level end of the market. About 5% of that is based on an objective consideration of Nikon's corner-cutting on focus motors, and 95% is subjective and just because Canon bodies sit better in my hands.

If you're not bothered by brand.. expand your comparison to include the Panasonic/Olympus m4/3 cameras and the Fuji X-series cameras.


Oh.. and Argos is almost ever the right place to buy from.. .. (although it's convenient to link to.. checkout camera pricebuster - it searches most of the available deals for the best price)
 
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StewartR said:
No you don't. You were right the first time.

You don't even need to think about focus motors with Canons, because the EOS system has a coherent AF design so any EOS body will happily AF with any EF lens. It's only with Nikons that you have to worry about two different AF systems and whether the ones in your camera and lens are the same.
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But the link I posted says the 600D has a built in focus motor??? I guess they mean all the lenses have a motor so in effect it doesn't matter.
 
vRSG60 said:
But the link I posted says the 600D has a built in focus motor??? I guess they mean all the lenses have a motor so in effect it doesn't matter.
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I guess it means it was written by somebody who doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
Try and get to a camera shop and actually put them in your hand, try them and see how well it works for you. You might surprise yourself when you realise there are other camera brands too :P
 
As above, at your stage it's more important to get things right like technique, composition and just being used to having a camera. Buy an entry-level SLR, buy an appropriate book for it like Busch's guide or Revell's book for the 600D and explore. When you get the hang of things and an idea of what you want, you can decide whether to stick to the brand or switch.

Remember, it's the photographer that makes the picture and not the camera. Some of the best photos I've seen were not created using an SLR.
 
StewartR said:
I guess it means it was written by somebody who doesn't know what he's talking about.
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The pages on that website are often generated using incorrect data - it's notoriously unreliable and was mainly created to generate ad revenue - so I doubt they are too bothered as long as they get the clicks. Better to use the DP review camera compare thing for comparing specs as the data is more reliable and they at least usually correct errors if pointed out: http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/cameras

+1 to buying used or buying new but not the latest model - you usually get much more for your money that way.
 
Do not forget about Sony or Pentax.

Pentax K-50 would be camera of my choosing for this price range.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Hi Barney
One thing is for certain - your budget will get you some good kit:banana:
However, do consider used kit too as there are some great bargains out there.
Just my 2c
cheers, cw
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Thank you Chris, I was unsure whether my budget was enough to obtain good quality, when I see the price on some models.

And thank you all for your kind advice, I forgot to mention I plan to use mainly with a tripod, my right hand is paralyzed, I can support a camera with both hands, but can't press the shutter button, I have overcome this before by using the timer on basic cams, but I believe there's a remote stutter button available for Dslr's, which I could control with my left hand, the Gopro had a nice little wifi remote, something like that would be great.

After considering all comments, I'm very swayed toward the Canon as most suitable, mainly due to the comments on better for video use, and better lens I gather, I know Argoose probable ain't the cheapest but there's a store nearby and customer support is usually quite good, so any problems then I could return for replacement. I must point out I have nothing against other brands, I've owned basic Kodak's, Olympus, and others but never Nikon, or Canon but that may change soon, maybe tomorrow.
I can't help wondering whether its worth spending that bit extra on the 700D though.

Thank you all again for the helpful advice, any further input is most welcome.

Kind regards

Barney.
 
Although it has been mentioned by previous (very helpful) posters it's worth reitterating before you commit to purchasing anything.........

GO AND HOLD THEM!

The greatest difference between Nikon And Canon is the ergonomics. The remaining differences at novice level are so slight that to use them to make a descision before you've held one in your hands and had a good, thorough play with it would be a bit wrong.

I'm a Nikon and M43 user and would happily recommend either. However, I could only comfortably use a handful of M43 bodies because of my stupid fat fingers!

Hopefully you've got a photographic retailer near you with a good stock from various manufacturers otherwise I'd be inclined to make a special effort to get to a place that does.

As Omens suggested, once you've found a camera you're comfortable with I'd hold back a bit of your budget for some training of some description: maybe a night class at a local college, some books specific to your gear and interests etc.

Having said that, youtube is a fantastic resource for tips and techniques.

Good luck!

Mark
 
I believe the 700D has superior AF in video mode, if that's important to you, but I've never used a DSLR with video capability. I'm sure someone else will comment on this.

If this isn't an issue for you, I'd lower my sights and look for a used 550D. Put the saving towards another lens or a flash unit.
 
Gupster said:
Although it has been mentioned by previous (very helpful) posters it's worth reitterating before you commit to purchasing anything.........

GO AND HOLD THEM!

The greatest difference between Nikon And Canon is the ergonomics. The remaining differences at novice level are so slight that to use them to make a descision before you've held one in your hands and had a good, thorough play with it would be a bit wrong.
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That's it, in a nutshell.

When I bought my first DSLR, I was comparing the entry-level Nikon and Canon models of the time - D70 vs 350D. In terms of specs they were comparable, and I didn't have any particularly niche interests which would incline me towards one system or the other. So I went and handled both cameras in a local shop.

I found that the Canon felt totally intuitive to me. All the controls were in the right place and worked the way I expected them to. The Nikon was bizarrely unintuitive, with confusing menus and awkward controls - even down to the placement of the main control wheel, which I found really awkward to reach and use with my short fat fingers. So as soon as I'd handled the cameras the decision was a total no-brainer.

But - and this is the key point - I know people who made exactly the same comparison and reached exactly the opposite decision. It's a very personal thing. So don't trust any person or any review if it says one has better ergonomics than the other. The only person who can decide that for you is you.

And it's important to get this right because you're potentially buying into a system. Your first DSLR is unlikely to be your last DSLR, and within each manufacturer's range the cameras have a lot of shared DNA. So if you find you particularly do or don't get on well with the Canon 600D, it's more than likely that you'll have a similar reaction to the 70D or the 6D or any other Canon DSLR.

The final point to note is that you are buying into a system and the systems are not equally capable. In some niche areas one manufacturer will be ahead of the other. So if you have any really niche interests that might require expensive gear at some point in the future, say so now and people here can help you. Otherwise, both systems will meet the needs of 99% of photographers equally well, so buy into the one that feels right for you.
 
Barney Strumble said:
And thank you all for your kind advice, I forgot to mention I plan to use mainly with a tripod, my right hand is paralyzed, I can support a camera with both hands, but can't press the shutter button, I have overcome this before by using the timer on basic cams, but I believe there's a remote stutter button available for Dslr's, which I could control with my left hand, the Gopro had a nice little wifi remote, something like that would be great.
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Barney, given the problem you have with your right hand I'd find a retailer that can take the time to set-up a camera on a tripod in the shop and let you see how you get along with it. I assume you're wanting a DSLR so that you can get to grips with the settings and take control of the image (if you're planning on using "Sports" or "Landscape" modes on the dial a DSLR is unnecessarily bulky and expensive). Entry level DSLRs generally have one control dial, and that can mean push-and-turn or two-button hold-and-turn is required in Manual mode. A secondhand model from further up the model ranges could give you a much easier to use two-dial layout.
 
In addition to what Alistair suggested regarding using your left hand, you might want to consider whether you go for a camera that has a touch screen - could make getting through the menus and making adjustments easier.
 
Yep, get yourself into your local camera shop and have a play
You may well find that the idiosyncrasies of one particular camera match your own requirements better than another.
Don't forget that most staff in camera shops are enthusiasts and appreciate that a camera has to feel right.
cheers, cw
 
each system is much of a muchness nowadays & it really does all boil down to the differences in handling & how they feel to you.
Canon to me seemed a cack handed ergonomic disaster & Nikon seemed way more natural & intuitive...
other people find differently...
you need to see which system best suits You :)
 
Alastair said:
Barney, given the problem you have with your right hand I'd find a retailer that can take the time to set-up a camera on a tripod in the shop and let you see how you get along with it. I assume you're wanting a DSLR so that you can get to grips with the settings and take control of the image (if you're planning on using "Sports" or "Landscape" modes on the dial a DSLR is unnecessarily bulky and expensive). Entry level DSLRs generally have one control dial, and that can mean push-and-turn or two-button hold-and-turn is required in Manual mode. A secondhand model from further up the model ranges could give you a much easier to use two-dial layout.
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that's a very good point that as a Canon example on my 7D I can vary the exposure compensation just by moving the big rear wheel at the back but on my 550D I have to hold in a button and turn the little wheel at the top by the shutter
both are very good cameras and you cant tell the difference between them for picture quality but the 7D is much easier to use
I'm not familiar with Nikon but I think that the same would apply the "semi pro" models have better controls which would make a big difference for you even if you had to go secondhand :)
 
Not sure if this would be of any use to you - and for the life of me I cannot find the product page again despite going way back through my browser history - but I remember seeing a kind of handgrip/shutter trigger thing on amazon which I think (from memory) screwed into the tripod socket and had a cable to the cable remote socket which allowed you to fire the shutter by squeezing the grip or a button on the grip.

I was a bit puzzled as to the usefulness of this so read the reviews and a few were from people unable to use their right arm or hand for various reasons and it enabled them to use a camera left handed and fire the shutter. Perhaps someone on here knows the product I am talking about? Anyway - could be an alternative to using a tripod most of the time?? If you go the tripod route I guess weight/size is less of an issue but Canon do an EOS 100 which I think is a sort of a lighter smaller version of the 700D but without the touch /swivel screen - not sure if that would be a better or worse option for you but like others have said try them all in a proper camera shop if possible? http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1021569.htm http://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-eos-100d-vs-700d-dslr-comparison-21612

I agree about the next models up from entry level having better controls - for your budget a good condition used 60D (Canon) or D7000 (Nikon) are within reach - think they go for around £400 or so for the body and if you buy from a reputable dealer you usually get a 6 month warranty.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Yep, get yourself into your local camera shop and have a play
You may well find that the idiosyncrasies of one particular camera match your own requirements better than another.
Don't forget that most staff in camera shops are enthusiasts and appreciate that a camera has to feel right.
cheers, cw
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Got to agree with everybody's opinion.
Chris is right about going to a local camera shop to try the ergonomics. Personally, I wouldn't go for good advice from said shop and then go home and order from Argoose! I reckon it is worth an extra 10%~ to have this advice on your doorstep. Also, ask them to take you round their "used" shelf. For a first-time buy, it could prove very useful.(y)
 
If you let us know whereabouts in the country you are I am sure someone on here will recommend a good store so you can have a play and try out the gear. It is really important. Especially in your situation with your hand.
 
Also, if you have any friends who use one system or another, remember that they may be able to lend you the odd lens here and there or any other accessories that you may not have to hand!

Also...
417259_10151278506740386_1351547247_n.jpg


;)
 
BBR said:
If you let us know whereabouts in the country you are I am sure someone on here will recommend a good store so you can have a play and try out the gear. It is really important. Especially in your situation with your hand.
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:plus1: If you are near Gloucestershire, Clifton Cameras are in Dursley. If you are in Devon, Brixham has Mifsuds…
 
Thank you all again for helping me choose, I've not purchased anything as yet, I'm hearing what many of you consider important factors like ergonomics, and must agree, so I'll try a few for comparison before comiting. the help and advice your all giving is really much appreciated, I've just uploaded a little video from the hurricane that hit my area, Pembrokeshire this afternoon,sorry but the quality from my old Sony cam is really terrible, but it will show you all the sort of thing I like trying to capture, I would have liked to include some still stots with my vids, hence wanting something like DSLR, that can produce good video and stills. But If you think there's something more suitable please let me know, your thoughts as always are much appreciated.
:ty:
 
Cameras are cameras. They're all pretty much the same. Buy whichever feels right in your hands, and whichever one lets you change aperture and shutter speed the easiest and most intuitively. People take photographs, not cameras. If anyone tries to drag you into a Nikon vs. Canon argument.. punch in the face, very hard. You'll be doing them a kindness.. sometimes you just have to be really tough with stupid people :)
 
I chose Canon for my first DSLR as it was on sale and cheaper than the Nikon I was looking at. The reason I am still with Canon is I am now used to them and have too much invested in glass.

Just get what works for you and do t get hung up on the Canon v Nikon arguments.

By the way I grew up in Pembrokeshire, my kids still live there so I regularly visit, stay safe in this weather!
 
Pookeyhead said:
Cameras are cameras. They're all pretty much the same. Buy whichever feels right in your hands, and whichever one lets you change aperture and shutter speed the easiest and most intuitively. People take photographs, not cameras. If anyone tries to drag you into a Nikon vs. Canon argument.. punch in the face, very hard. You'll be doing them a kindness.. sometimes you just have to be really tough with stupid people :)
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^
This.

(not sure about punching em......but it could be funny :LOL: )
 
The last part was a joke. :) Although it is tempting sometimes with fanboys.
 
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