Canon L Lenses Calibration

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Eddie1

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The continuing frustrations of canon L Lenses
just got a new body ( 5d4) and once again I am going to have to pay to get canon elstree to calibrate my 35 50 and 85mm lenses to the body
as they are not in focus at their widest apertures.
I seem to have to do this every time I get a new body, which given the price of these lenses, is really taking the mick.
x 2 when can even with CPS make this chargeable at least £30 per lens

Do Nikon and Sony have the same issues ?
 
Manufacturers make stuff to tolerances, some slack some tight, depends on what and who.
If you have a lens at one extreme of the tolerance allowance and a body at the other you will need to get them aligned better. On the other hand if you had two items which had complimentary tolerances you wouldnt.
If Canon or any other manufacturer made stuff to even tighter tolerances they would be rejecting huge amounts from their production lines, or have to buy new dies, lathes etc much sooner, this would put the price up to a level most people couldnt afford, so it's a balancing act to make things affordable.

Just the way it is.

Matt
 
Touch wood the two L lenses I have (24-105 and a 17-40) are spot-on focus wise with my 6D and needed no adjustment at all. However, an old 75 to 300 IS Mk1 I have doesn't seem to get on as well with it, but I'm loath to try calibrating that in case it messes up the settings for the others, plus it's earmarked for replacement once used 100-400 L MkIIs become a bit cheaper and more plentiful.
 
Eddie1 said:
The continuing frustrations of canon L Lenses
just got a new body ( 5d4) and once again I am going to have to pay to get canon elstree to calibrate my 35 50 and 85mm lenses to the body
as they are not in focus at their widest apertures.
I seem to have to do this every time I get a new body, which given the price of these lenses, is really taking the mick.
x 2 when can even with CPS make this chargeable at least £30 per lens

Do Nikon and Sony have the same issues ?
Click to expand...

Surely the issue is with the body rather than the lenses as all three of your lenses now need calibration? Also, don't you have micro-adjust on the 5D? I take it you've already used this but aren't happy with the results still?

With regards to Sony, you won't have that issue as the mirrorless body uses on-sensor AF rather than the separate dedicated AF hardware used in a DSLR so it doesn't suffer with front/rear focusing issues.
 
Eddie1 said:
The continuing frustrations of canon L Lenses
just got a new body ( 5d4) and once again I am going to have to pay to get canon elstree to calibrate my 35 50 and 85mm lenses to the body
as they are not in focus at their widest apertures.
I seem to have to do this every time I get a new body, which given the price of these lenses, is really taking the mick.
x 2 when can even with CPS make this chargeable at least £30 per lens

Do Nikon and Sony have the same issues ?
Click to expand...

I've got seven L lenses 17-40 f4, 24-105, 50 1.2, 2x 70-200 f2.8, 300 F4 and a 400 2.8 and two bodies (2 x 1dx) and I've had a variety of other bodies in recent years - I've never needed to get any of them calibrated (used micro adjust on the 50 but never touched any of the others) - you've obviously been very unlucky or are a jinx
 
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I'd have a go at micro adjusting them, unless you've already tried. All of my lenses except for my 70-200 have some MA on them and different amounts with my extenders on both my bodies.

There no way I'd pay Canon to do it unless it was off the MA scale and then I would get the lens checked.

It takes me ten minutes to do a lens or recheck. Not really a problem and the results are worth the effort. Most of the time I do it using the LCD on the camera.
 
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Never actually had a reason to check one so far, should have a go really. Any links for it?
 
I’m taking about using the lens at f1.2

They usually get sharp from f2 upwards but wide open leave a lot to be desired
 
Eddie1 said:
I’m taking about using the lens at f1.2

They usually get sharp from f2 upwards but wide open leave a lot to be desired
Click to expand...

Focus and depth of field are two different things though.

If all three lenses are failing to focus on the point you choose (best tested using something with obvious contrast) then it sounds like a calibration issue with your body. First step would be to apply some micro adjust for each lens and that may be enough to save you £30 per lens. If the focal point is correct when you review the images but they're generally 'not sharp' at F1.2, that's more likely just the result of very shallow DOF at 1.2 on FF.
 
Eddie1 said:
The continuing frustrations of canon L Lenses
just got a new body ( 5d4) and once again I am going to have to pay to get canon elstree to calibrate my 35 50 and 85mm lenses to the body
as they are not in focus at their widest apertures.
I seem to have to do this every time I get a new body, which given the price of these lenses, is really taking the mick.
x 2 when can even with CPS make this chargeable at least £30 per lens

Do Nikon and Sony have the same issues ?
Click to expand...
Are you saying the 5D4 has not gor micro focusing ? just checked and see it has
AF Microadjustment
Manual: Enter adjustment +/- 20 steps (wide and tele setting for zoom lenses)
Adjust all lenses by same amount
Adjust up to 40 lenses individually
Adjustments remembered for lens by serial number
 
When I do mine I set up the distance between the front and back of my target at the limits of the DOF at the focus distance I'm calibrating at. I then focus in the centre of the target which is in the middle of the DOF. I usually take 5/6 shots and check them on the LCD. If it's front or back focusing I can see it straightaway.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/articles/AF_MicroAdjustGuide_mobile.pdf
 
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Eddie1 said:
I’m taking about using the lens at f1.2

They usually get sharp from f2 upwards but wide open leave a lot to be desired
Click to expand...

As most lenses seem to be sharpest at 1 or 2 stops above wide open is it really an issue with sharpness or just too narrow a DOF and front/back focus. Strange that all 3 lenses are the same with different bodies.
 
Mr Badger said:
Touch wood the two L lenses I have (24-105 and a 17-40) are spot-on focus wise with my 6D and needed no adjustment at all. However, an old 75 to 300 IS Mk1 I have doesn't seem to get on as well with it, but I'm loath to try calibrating that in case it messes up the settings for the others, plus it's earmarked for replacement once used 100-400 L MkIIs become a bit cheaper and more plentiful.
Click to expand...

You can either set it up so that all lenses are adjusted by the same amount OR each lens has it's own setting. Choose the latter and it won't affact your other lenses.
 
Gaz J said:
When I do mine I set up the distance between the front and back of my target at the limits of the DOF at the focus distance I'm calibrating at. I then focus in the centre of the target which is in the middle of the DOF. I usually take 5/6 shots and check them on the LCD. If it's front or back focusing I can see it straightaway.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/articles/AF_MicroAdjustGuide_mobile.pdf
Click to expand...
Is dof of equal amount around the focus point, I thought there was more dof either in front or behind the focus point, can't remember which.
Matt
 
MatBin said:
Is dof of equal amount around the focus point, I thought there was more dof either in front or behind the focus point, can't remember which.
Matt
Click to expand...

It changes with focal length. Wide angle is around the 1/3 - 2/3s but as the focal length gets longer the DOF becomes more equal.

For what it's worth I set my telephoto lenses from 200mm upwards up to have a 50/50 DoF.

When I get a new lens or body my quick check is a piece of paper pinned to the fence with small writing on it, around 2mm high. I take a shot at the distance I expect to use the lens mostly. I then put +5 on the camera and take another one then -5 and take another. A quick check on the LCD to see if there is any obvious front or back focus. If there is then I get my set up and tripod out and set the lens/body up.
 
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Why are you calibrating the lens to the body?

You should be calibrating the body to the lens. I mean what are you going to do if you get a backup body? Get another of the same lens?
 
Raymond Lin said:
Why are you calibrating the lens to the body?

You should be calibrating the body to the lens. I mean what are you going to do if you get a backup body? Get another of the same lens?
Click to expand...

Not sure who your asking this question of Raymond. If it's me then I think of MA as setting my lenses to my body. Perhaps an incorrect description but it's all done the same way. Whichever way you want to look at it I think people tend to look at MA as some form of rocket science when in reality it's very straight forward as long as you're methodical and consistent.
 
Ploddles said:
You can either set it up so that all lenses are adjusted by the same amount OR each lens has it's own setting. Choose the latter and it won't affact your other lenses.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, I did know about that but I'm loath to fiddle with something if it's working well with the other two lenses just in case I make a pig's ear of things! As I say, the old 75-300 will be replaced soon, although it works fine on my film camera, and I can always use it on manual focus in the meantime. (y)
 
Gaz J said:
Not sure who your asking this question of Raymond. If it's me then I think of MA as setting my lenses to my body. Perhaps an incorrect description but it's all done the same way. Whichever way you want to look at it I think people tend to look at MA as some form of rocket science when in reality it's very straight forward as long as you're methodical and consistent.
Click to expand...

Not you specifically but anyone who MA their lenses to their bodies as opposed to MA to their lenses.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Not you specifically but anyone who MA their lenses to their bodies as opposed to MA to their lenses.
Click to expand...

Is it even possible to MA your lens to your body without sending it off to the manufacturer and then that would be to only 1 body? The only way surely is to MA the body (bodies) to the lens.
 
Ploddles said:
Is it even possible to MA your lens to your body without sending it off to the manufacturer and then that would be to only 1 body? The only way surely is to MA the body (bodies) to the lens.
Click to expand...

Though I have never/yet to MFA a lens is this ^ not the case i.e. when you MFA a body lens combo the body holds the data for that specific lens........the same lens can be MFAed on another body aok and as appropriate used on either body because when mounted it takes the instructions to adjust its focus to match that body!
 
Ploddles said:
Is it even possible to MA your lens to your body without sending it off to the manufacturer and then that would be to only 1 body? The only way surely is to MA the body (bodies) to the lens.
Click to expand...

In the film days that’s what you do. You send everything to CPS to calibrate, because the film negative doesn’t move but the lens focusing can be calibrated.

Now days you MA the body, so I don’t understand when the OP sends his lenses to canon to calibrate....
 
Does anyone actually know what micro adjustment does, my feeling is it moves something inside the body depending on the lens and how much you tweak it via the inbuilt s/w. Getting Canon to match lens to body sounds more like an adjustment to the lens' focal point whilst leaving the body alone. They ask you bring your body else they use a standard body/setting as I recall.
 
MatBin said:
Does anyone actually know what micro adjustment does, my feeling is it moves something inside the body depending on the lens and how much you tweak it via the inbuilt s/w. Getting Canon to match lens to body sounds more like an adjustment to the lens' focal point whilst leaving the body alone. They ask you bring your body else they use a standard body/setting as I recall.
Click to expand...
AFMA is shifting the plane of focus inside the camera body. (https://www.slrlounge.com/canons-free-autofocus-microadjustment-guidebook/)
 
Eddie1 said:
I’m taking about using the lens at f1.2

They usually get sharp from f2 upwards but wide open leave a lot to be desired
Click to expand...

The DOF is so shallow with this lens AFMA is, I think, essential. Each time I've had a new body I've performed the AFMA for all lens using FoCal software, including combinations with teleconverters. Each lens take me 15 minutes or so it's a lot of work to go through. But well worth it.
 
TheAndyA said:
You could try Reikan FoCal? https://www.reikanfocal.com/
Click to expand...

I purchased this recently, the pro version which also has a test to assert which aperture is the sharpest.

So, run the calibration test to determine af fine tune then run the aperture test to find the optimum aperture at that setting.

An excellent piece of software in my opinion and I've been programming computers for a long time ...

Kind Regards,

Dougie.

p.s. As I suspected, I felt my lens were all slightly front focussing and this has been confirmed via above.

So suspect body has the bias.

Can post results if anyone interested.
 
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Ploddles said:
Is it even possible to MA your lens to your body without sending it off to the manufacturer and then that would be to only 1 body? The only way surely is to MA the body (bodies) to the lens.
Click to expand...

Does it matter which way it's described. It's still the same process if you do it yourself. MA the body to lens or lens to body. Most photographers I know who want advice on this ask me if I calibrate my lenses so I'm not alone in using this terminology. I've edited the post to save confusion!!
 
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You only need to calibrate the body to the lens these days because think of the tolerances of the sensor and lens, let’s say there is a bracket where they are within an acceptable tolerance....pick a number, say within 20 microns, 0 being spot on. Same for both body and the lens. Your body might be at the -10, so if you have a lens that is perfect 0, if you put them together you will forever be -10 out. If you calibrate the lens to the body (so to make the lens +10), meaning sending your entire kit to Elstree. (And they can't guarantee its dead 0, it can only be within acceptable tolerance.


What if you have 2 bodies like me? If you calibrate a lens perfect to one body, what do you do to the other body?????


You calibrate the body, you don't calibrate the lens. If you have a body at -10 and one body at -5, what figure do you calibrate your lens to?


Say you have a bunch of lenses


24mm -10

35mm -5

50mm +7

85mm -16

100mm 0

135mm +12


And you have 2 bodies, both 5D4.


You put the body on the tripod and you put the lenses on it and calibrate the body to the lens. When people say “calibrate my lenses”, this is what they mean. You never really should actually adjust the lenses. I have the Sigma dock, I have never used it because of this. If I use the dock the calibrate the lens, even if it is spot on. I have to calibrate the body to sync anyway, both of them, no matter what.


People send the cameras to Canon in the old days when they can't micro adjust their cameras. Not anymore.
 
Semantics. You calibrate your body, I calibrate my lenses. I spoke to my mate who a professional photographer and asked him how he describes it without giving him the two options. He said "I calibrate my lenses".

In reality I don't care what people call it, whether they do it or whether they say they've never needed to do it. I will bet that many photographers who say they don't need to do it would find that some adjustment would be beneficial especially at wide apertures. One unit of MA adjustment on a Canon moves the point of focus 1/8 of the depth of focus at max aperture so shooting wide open with very fast lenses it would not need a lot of error to have a marked effect.
 
How about saying 'I calibrate my camera body with my lenses'? This doesn't say which of the two is actually being adjusted, merely that they are calibrated with each other! :) I'm sure I should have been a diplomat. :D
 
I have the luxury of one body (where I care at all) and 3 L series lenses so Canon got to do them all during a recent service, as there is no MA setting in the memory of the camera I guess they didnt do an MA but the focus is where it should be :)
 
Each camera will record the serial number of the lens so you do it on both bodies and it will have the adjustments for each lens.

Adjustments for up to 40 individual lenses
can be entered and stored in-camera.
When a recognized lens is mounted, those
stored AF adjustments will automa+cally
be applied to AF. Different samples of the
same model lens can have separate
adjustment values entered to the camera.
With select EOS cameras, it’s possible to
make adjustments to both the wide-angle
(W) and telephoto (T) ends.*


You can select from two types, "Adjust by lens" and "All by same amount"
* EOS 70D, 80D; EOS 7D Mark II; EOS 6D;
EOS 5D Mark III, 5DS, 5DS R; EOS-1D X and
EOS-1D X Mark II cameras only
 
On my 300 2.8 i set the manual adjustment to plus 7 with my 7D mk 1 and when I got the 7D mk 2 I found it needed the same adjustment
I also adjusted with the 1.4 tc and 2.0 tc and the camera remembered the settings with and without tc fitted
I did struggle with doing the micro adjustment with the 2.0 tc and lens and have taken my 7D mk2 lens and extenders to Canon
Apparently they will check and calibrate and set the micro adjustment to zero
This will be handy so I will be able to use the lens on a Canon body without micro adjustment such as my 550D
 
LCPete said:
Apparently they will check and calibrate and set the micro adjustment to zero
This will be handy so I will be able to use the lens on a Canon body without micro adjustment such as my 550D
Click to expand...

That will only work if the 550 has the same "out of focus" amount as your 7D2, otherwise it may still be front or rear focusing.
Canon adjusted the 7D2 and the lens to be in "perfect" alignment, had you taken the 550 which hasnt got MA there may be adjustments available in that body too but only by a service centre.

Matt
 
MatBin said:
That will only work if the 550 has the same "out of focus" amount as your 7D2, otherwise it may still be front or rear focusing.
Canon adjusted the 7D2 and the lens to be in "perfect" alignment, had you taken the 550 which hasnt got MA there may be adjustments available in that body too but only by a service centre.

Matt
Click to expand...
Ahh I see thanks Matt
Does that mean that they don't adjust the lens just my 7D 2 ?
I've taken in the 7D 2 lens and 1.4 and 2.0 converters and asked them to calibrate and focus check them
 
LCPete said:
Ahh I see thanks Matt
Does that mean that they don't adjust the lens just my 7D 2 ?
I've taken in the 7D 2 lens and 1.4 and 2.0 converters and asked them to calibrate and focus check them
Click to expand...
I think they can do both, but more likely just the lens/teleconverter to match the body, so long as the lens can take the adjustment, they ask you to take both body and lens(es) or they adjust lens to a "standard" body.
 
MatBin said:
I think they can do both, but more likely just the lens/teleconverter to match the body, so long as the lens can take the adjustment, they ask you to take both body and lens(es) or they adjust lens to a "standard" body.
Click to expand...
Ahh I see thanks Matt
:):)
 
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