Canon G1-X vs. Samsung Galaxy

Rupert67

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My daughter and I recently visited the Pink Floyd 'Their Mortal Remains' exhibition at the V&A - I've been a fan ever since their second album came out in 1968.

I took my Canon G1-X and my daughter used her Samsung Galaxy smart phone. She seems to have got some really stunning looking pictures, nicely exposed with no movement blur. On the other hand, I am quite disappointed with my own results! I set the ISO to 6400 and the aperture to f/8 to ensure maximum dof.

Looking at my pictures back home on the PC many of them are spoiled by slight motion blur. Exposure details tell me that, even at ISO 6400 and f/8, I was only getting shutter speeds of, in some cases, considerably less than 1/25 sec. which, even with the camera's in-built stabiliser, wasn't enough to freeze things all the time.

Yes, I could have been a bit braver with the ISO setting (maybe upped it to 8000 or even the max of 12800, as some grain is better then no picture at all) and maybe I would still have got adequate dof with f/5.6 or even f/4, but what is it about the camera in my daughter's phone that was able to cope so well without her needing to make any ISO or f/stop adjustments?
 
Sensors used in cheap compacts and mobile phones typically have a crop factor of 5 or thereabouts. That means your daughter's phone could shoot at F2.8 and get a depth of field equivalent to F14 on a full frame camera, i.e. similar to what you get with your canon at F8

When I shoot indoors I almost never stop my lenses down. Instead I use shallow DoF for artistic effects
I usually set my A7II to manual with a comfortable shutter speed and let camera set ISO automatically
 
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Sensors used in cheap compacts and mobile phones typically have a crop factor of 5 or thereabouts. That means your daughter's phone could shoot at F2.8 and get a depth of field equivalent to F14 on a full frame camera, i.e. similar to what you get with your canon at F8

When I shoot indoors I almost never stop my lenses down. Instead I use shallow DoF for artistic effects
I usually set my A7II to manual with a comfortable shutter speed and let camera set ISO automatically

That's interesting what you say about the ISO. I've never set any of my cameras to auto anything, but I have seen that auto ISO is an option on the G1-X. Presumably, going back to my V&A exhibition scenario, if I go for shutter priority and set it to 1/60 sec or so with the ISO on auto, then the aperture will sort itself out OK?
 
That's interesting what you say about the ISO. I've never set any of my cameras to auto anything, but I have seen that auto ISO is an option on the G1-X. Presumably, going back to my V&A exhibition scenario, if I go for shutter priority and set it to 1/60 sec or so with the ISO on auto, then the aperture will sort itself out OK?
Yeah or you can get both the aperture an shutter speed then let the camera auto iso.
 
Next time use max aperture, choose your target for focus carefully and let auto ISO take care of sensitivity to give sensible shutter speeds.
 
Thanks to rjbell and ancient_mariner .. things to try in future.

I would normally have had my 5D MkIII with me but, as it was a special day in London with my daughter, I didn't want to be too encumbered, hence my 'other camera'. I always feel slightly at odds with the compact because the exposure parameters don't show on the screen when I chimp .. unless anyone knows different and can tell me that it's possible to set it that way.
 
My daughter and I recently visited the Pink Floyd 'Their Mortal Remains' exhibition at the V&A - I've been a fan ever since their second album came out in 1968.

I took my Canon G1-X and my daughter used her Samsung Galaxy smart phone. She seems to have got some really stunning looking pictures, nicely exposed with no movement blur. On the other hand, I am quite disappointed with my own results! I set the ISO to 6400 and the aperture to f/8 to ensure maximum dof.

Looking at my pictures back home on the PC many of them are spoiled by slight motion blur. Exposure details tell me that, even at ISO 6400 and f/8, I was only getting shutter speeds of, in some cases, considerably less than 1/25 sec. which, even with the camera's in-built stabiliser, wasn't enough to freeze things all the time.

Yes, I could have been a bit braver with the ISO setting (maybe upped it to 8000 or even the max of 12800, as some grain is better then no picture at all) and maybe I would still have got adequate dof with f/5.6 or even f/4, but what is it about the camera in my daughter's phone that was able to cope so well without her needing to make any ISO or f/stop adjustments?

The G1x is by far more capable than the phone. Shoot with a wider aperture, you could actually shoot below f/4 on a G1x and still get good DoF, especially for a subject at distance, and anything with a flat focal plane.

It's very easy to stop the aperture down thinking you're chasing a sharp image when a lot of the time you don't need to! Generally indoors I wouldn't stop down either.
 
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The G1x is by far more capable than the phone. Shoot with a wider aperture, you could actually shoot below f/4 on a G1x and still get good DoF, especially for a subject at distance, and anything with a flat focal plane.

It's very easy to stop the aperture down thinking you're chasing a sharp image when a lot of the time you don't need to! Generally indoors I wouldn't stop down either.
Good advice odd jim, thank you very much, I just need to be braver with the exposure parameters.

By the way, the kind soul who suggested setting shutter and aperture manually and letting auto ISO take over had perhaps overlooked the fact that this feature won't set an ISO above 1600. An excellent idea in theory but it wouldn't work in practice in the really low light situations encountered in the Pink Floyd 'Their Mortal Remains' exhibition, even if I'd used f/4 or wider.
 
kind soul who suggested setting shutter and aperture manually and letting auto ISO take over had perhaps overlooked the fact that this feature won't set an ISO above 1600.

Well I didn't know G1-X had this limitation. This is pretty pathetic considering the fact it has a fairly large sensor and high AUTO ISO would have been perfect to take advantage of it.
 
I took my Canon G1-X and my daughter used her Samsung Galaxy smart phone. She seems to have got some really stunning looking pictures, nicely exposed with no movement blur. On the other hand, I am quite disappointed with my own results! I set the ISO to 6400 and the aperture to f/8 to ensure maximum dof.

Looking at my pictures back home on the PC many of them are spoiled by slight motion blur. Exposure details tell me that, even at ISO 6400 and f/8, I was only getting shutter speeds of, in some cases, considerably less than 1/25 sec. which, even with the camera's in-built stabiliser, wasn't enough to freeze things all the time.

Yes, I could have been a bit braver with the ISO setting (maybe upped it to 8000 or even the max of 12800, as some grain is better then no picture at all) and maybe I would still have got adequate dof with f/5.6 or even f/4, but what is it about the camera in my daughter's phone that was able to cope so well without her needing to make any ISO or f/stop adjustments?

ISO 6400 and f8 aren't settings I'd normally be looking at with a camera like this (I think it's got a 1" sensor like my Panny TZ100?) and 1/25 is going to be next to useless for people shots unless you're using flash.

My advice is to shoot wide open in low light or if you must stop down do so with restraint as the DoF you'll get will almost certainly be adequate without going to the relative extreme of f8. Maybe you can google your way to some DoF tables for your camera?

Personally I normally use aperture priority until the light drops to the point that the camera selects an unsuitable shutter speed and then I switch to manual or shutter and dial in more appropriate settings.

Just one quick point on smartphone pictures. My camera phone is awful but my GF and all her friends get very nice looking shots with their newer model phones but one thing I've noticed is that their shots can look lovely on the phone or tablet screen but look far less good on my pc screen and once I even thought about begining to pixel peep the shots often look less than nice. I suppose the phone / tablet camera and screen are meant to look lovely at these small sizes, so all in all I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions about image quality based on shots viewed on a small phone or tablet screen unless that's the only place they're going to be looked at. A 1" compact should be able to better what a phone or tablet can do.
 
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Well I didn't know G1-X had this limitation. This is pretty pathetic considering the fact it has a fairly large sensor and high AUTO ISO would have been perfect to take advantage of it.

The sensor isnt large, it's large for a compact but still pretty small [emoji3]
 
Beginner's luck, and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
It's quite astonishing how kids, particularly, knowing no better can do things we grown-ups struggle with... like walking over rope bridges, or climbing trees, and stuff.
They have no fears, no pre-conceptions, and a thirst to just engage with the world and try stuff.. and it takes them a long way; they don't THINK about doing things, they just DO them, knowing no better.
It's something I have observed, looking back over thirty odd years worth of film-photo's scanning the negatives to digital; when I knew no better, before I got a bit 'serious' and a bit more clued up about this 'photography' thing, you know, when I just took photo's! I seem to have yielded a FAR higher proportion of 'decent' if not stunning pictures.
When I started getting a bit more serious, and clued up about it all, and using an SLR, it LOOKS like it just all went completely to POT.. and doesn't look like I have got an awful lot better ever since TBH!
Interesting to note that all my early film-photo's were shot with my little 35mm Olympus XA2 'point and shoot'; an incredibly 'easy' camera to use, it's fully automatic exposure control, and 'zone focus'l there's basically only four knobs; an ASA slider to set the film speed; a three position 'zone focus' slider for 'normal' subject distances, and then 'portrait' and 'landscape' either side; the shutter release, and the film-advance! There's very very little to actually cockup, short of leaving a finger infront of the lens!
Entry to 35mm SLR photography came with an Olympus OM10. A Manual focus camera, with 'semi-auto' aperture priority exposure control, that was 'almost' as point and press easy to use, but did beg manually selecting the aperture, and more critically focusing the lens.. but even with just these two extra twiddly bits to mess with, did seem to be 'enough' to start making a lot more effups.. let alone, getting it completely to pot, trying to use the 'manual adapter', or the added encumbrance of the permutations and possibilities offered by a couple of zoom lenses!
Progression from there, was to get even more over-whelmed, reading up and trying to exploit DoF effects and exposure compensation, learning to 'pan' and when to use a tripod, and stuff.
Research and reading provided inspiration and increased ambition far faster than it added useful know-how and ability; and as expectations and standards increased, my ability to achieve them fell even further!
Meanwhile, I started indulging on far more photographic exercises, trying to 'suss' these techniques I was reading up on, and taking photo's of stuff, I really had little interest in, what so ever, 'just' to 'play-cameras' rather than make pictures.. something that, now, scanning all the old negs, has me looking at stuff, wondering why I ever shot it, and the O/H when she spots some bizarre abstract photo-exercise, like say a hay-wain semi-silhouetted against a heavily filter tinted sky, pop up on screen ask "WHAT on earth is that? WHY did you take a picture of... well, WHAT is it?!" Which I honestly cant answer! Begging an OCD wibble, when she asks why I am 'wasting my time' not just scanning it, but touching out dust mots and stuff to which ALL I can reply is "It's on the FILM!.... HAVE to scan them all! I just HAVE to!" Lol.
Having kids, and chasing around after them, trying to stop them running across rope bridges or climb up trees or scramble up cliff-faces and stuff, and not having the 'time' to get pretentious about photo's, and wanting to capture moments, actually took me full circle, to 'just' taking photo's rather than trying to 'do-photography'. Not trying so hard, not thinking so much about it, getting back to basics and concentrating on the subject, rather than the settings, I actually started to make headway again, and those middle era photo', again, contain a lot more more decent photo's and when I had a 'moment' to indulge in applying a bit of more elevated know-how to effect, the odd, well, not stunner, but 'stand out' picture... which more often than not, wasn't to be found in the settings or being cleaver with DoF or anything, but most often, just being a bit careful about composition, or hand-holding or using a white T-shirt as an impromptu reflector to get a bit of shadow fill-in, outside the camera, not in it.
There is a lot to be said for keeping it simple, and getting back to basics, ad just NOT trying so hard....
Like as not, the already mentioned added Depth-of-Field from an incredibly short focal length used on a Phone-Cam's micro-sensor, that makes them effectively focus free, and allows max aperture to be used almost with impunity, paid a big part in the comparison....B-U-T... your daughter was inadvertently exploiting that knowing no better, and just taking photos..... you were trying to 'Do Photography'.. and inadvertently making life hard for yourself and making opportunity to make mistakes, rather than exploit the hard-ware in your hand.
 
Just one quick point on smartphone pictures. My camera phone is awful but my GF and all her friends get very nice looking shots with their newer model phones but one thing I've noticed is that their shots can look lovely on the phone or tablet screen but look far less good on my pc screen and once I even thought about begining to pixel peep the shots often look less than nice. I suppose the phone / tablet camera and screen are meant to look lovely at these small sizes, so all in all I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions about image quality based on shots viewed on a small phone or tablet screen unless that's the only place they're going to be looked at. A 1" compact should be able to better what a phone or tablet can do.

I used a Samsung S7 for a commission last year as part of the launch for O2, and was similarly impressed with the pictures when viewed on the phone. They didn't look quite as good on my monitor, but responded well to post processing. Pixel peeping did show up a lack of detail, especially in the shadows, but when viewed large, they compared favourably with the images I took with my Fuji XT10.

Out of curiosity I got some printed at A3, and they look pretty good. Not as good as those from a proper camera of course, but more than acceptable. Slightly daft test as I imagine that probably less than 1% of smartphone photos will be printed, but certainly interesting to see what is possible.

Galleries are here: http://www.theviewfromthenorth.org/crossness-pumping-station and http://www.theviewfromthenorth.org/london-road-fire-station-samsung
 
Being the owner of an original G1 I'm surprised that you were disappointed with the results as it's my choice for high ISO gig photography. It's slow yes but it's near APSC size sensor and first class lens really do the business where it matters. I've also got a Sony RX100 which is a great little camera but its smaller 1" sensor and fair lens just can't compare with the G1. It is however much smaller, quicker and lighter to carry but for (slow) results it's the G1 every time.
 
Don't worry, its just the truth that smartphones are very forgiving.

I don't think I ever suffered an out of focus shot with an iPhone 5S, or shallow DOF.

You just get endless ok to good photos without even trying lol.
 
Don't worry, its just the truth that smartphones are very forgiving.

I don't think I ever suffered an out of focus shot with an iPhone 5S, or shallow DOF.

*You just get endless ok to good photos without even trying lol.

* 'good' on a phone screen [emoji3]
 
* 'good' on a phone screen [emoji3]

I think this is a key point. Smartphone photos tend to be quite heavily processed whether you like it or not. They will have quite heavy noise reduction, sharpening and contrast. Looks great on a phone a screen (which is more or less where they normally stay) but can completely fall apart when viewing on large screens.
 
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