Canon FF mirrorless...

[Cagey75]

As we are now discussing mobile phones and pads etc, as well as being a Canon fanboy I am an Apple fanboy and have used Apple products since 1998.

As a photographer I like my iPhone 7 Plus because of its large screen - I automatically sync my iPhone and iPad with my wildlife pictures and the larger phone screen is better for enjoying them. The mothership is a 27" iMac.

May as well, none of the threads on here lately are staying on topic. The screen is pretty decent on my Android phone, it's 5.5" 1080 x 1920 pixels, 16:9 ratio (~403 ppi density) - It's great for watching videos on or reviewing images via Flickr or whatever, it's just the actual camera sucks in anything but the clearest light - and even then it's not great. Proof that the mp count has little to do with end image quality, as it's 16mp, the same as my MFT camera, and there is no comparison whatsoever. I know the newer iPhones have very decent cameras, but even still, i don't think I'd use it that often. My missus just got a new Nokia ... yes, they are still around - surprised me when she chose that as her upgrade from her old Samy S6. Hers has a better screen again - 6" [basically a 'phablet'] 1080 x 2160 pixels, 18:9 ratio (~403 ppi density) The camera on hers seems to be pretty decent from what I've seen, but she insists it's no better than the camera on the S6 - though that was very good for it's time

 

[robinsslee]

It absolutely is. To make myself clear, I believe in terms of a lot of specs and image quality it seems to be a better camera than the EOS R but the list I made would still deter me because there's (for me) quite a few dealbreakers in it

The specs does not prevent a good photographer to take excellent photos

 

[nandbytes]

lol

I totally get the hate, but I have actually spent less money on computers and phones since I switched to Apple. I used to keep switching phones like every year or two. Now I keep my iPhone minimum of 4 years. iPhone 1, iPhone 4 and iPhone 6 are all the phones that i've had all these years. In the same time, I have had 1 Apple laptop, and 2 desktop, never formatted them at all either.

I really spent less time fixing my computers compare to my windows days, spent less time upgrading, spent less on hardware, they might cost more initially but I find I just spent less overall in the long run.

Ahem….time to replace my 2011 MBP

Erm... This is not something that's apple products specific. You can do the same with any brand, it's your behaviour not apple. So you are still spending more than you need to for privilege of using Apple products.

My first laptop I kept for 4 years (still works just not powerful enough), second laptop I keep for 5 years (overheats but I could fix it cheaply and I paid 1/3rd price of equally spec'd macbook), for my 3rd and current computer I bought an iMac last year.
My first smartphones was HTC desire HD, kept for 5 years (still works and used around the house as "house" phone). second one was Panasonic DMC-CM1 that I bought for the camera and sold it after two years because I didn't really make use of the nice camera all that much. I replaced it with a £100 Moto g5 last year. Over all spent less that a current new iPhone

So apple has nothing to do with keeping things for a long time (i.e. alluding to reliability), it's your behaviour and possibly because you are skint after spending on apple products so you don't/can't buy a new one as often.

 

[nandbytes]

lol

I totally get the hate, but I have actually spent less money on computers and phones since I switched to Apple. I used to keep switching phones like every year or two. Now I keep my iPhone minimum of 4 years. iPhone 1, iPhone 4 and iPhone 6 are all the phones that i've had all these years. In the same time, I have had 1 Apple laptop, and 2 desktop, never formatted them at all either.

I really spent less time fixing my computers compare to my windows days, spent less time upgrading, spent less on hardware, they might cost more initially but I find I just spent less overall in the long run.

Ahem….time to replace my 2011 MBP

Erm... This is not something that's apple products specific. You can do the same with any brand, it's your behaviour not apple. So you are still spending more than you need to for privilege of using Apple products.

My first laptop I kept for 4 years (still works just not powerful enough), second laptop I kept for 5 years (overheats but I could fix it cheaply and I paid 1/3rd price of equally spec'd macbook), for my 3rd and current computer I bought an iMac last year.
My first smartphones was HTC desire HD, kept for 5 years (still works and used around the house as "house" phone). second one was Panasonic DMC-CM1 that I bought for the camera and sold it after two years because I didn't really make use of the nice camera all that much. I replaced it with a £100 Moto g5 last year. Over all spent less that a current new iPhone on phones
(Also I don't like the iPhone user interface, only reason I don't own one, not money reasons but that's besides the point)

So apple has nothing to do with keeping things for a long time (i.e. alluding to reliability), it's your behaviour and possibly because you are skint after spending on apple products so you don't/can't buy a new one as often.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Erm... This is not something that's apple products specific. You can do the same with any brand, it's your behaviour not apple. So you are still spending more than you need to for privilege of using Apple products.

My first laptop I kept for 4 years (still works just not powerful enough), second laptop I kept for 5 years (overheats but I could fix it cheaply and I paid 1/3rd price of equally spec'd macbook), for my 3rd and current computer I bought an iMac last year.
My first smartphones was HTC desire HD, kept for 5 years (still works and used around the house as "house" phone). second one was Panasonic DMC-CM1 that I bought for the camera and sold it after two years because I didn't really make use of the nice camera all that much. I replaced it with a £100 Moto g5 last year. Over all spent less that a current new iPhone on phones
(Also I don't like the iPhone user interface, only reason I don't own one, not money reasons but that's besides the point)

So apple has nothing to do with keeping things for a long time (i.e. alluding to reliability), it's your behaviour and possibly because you are skint after spending on apple products so you don't/can't buy a new one as often.

How do you know I am skint and can't buy as often? lol

The MBP that I replaced, it was the BASE model from 2011, cost me £870, even in 2011 it was hardly bank breaking money, 12 months later I got a desktop (I always run 2 side by side) iMac which was the max spec at the time. It is still working, I am upgrading because the CPU inside is so old, Adobe's latest CC won't install on it, which means my Sony RAWs isn't recognised. I am forced not by the Mac OS but Adobe!

I already told you why I don't upgrade as often, it is not about they cost more, I already said I spent less during my 10 years Mac ownership in both money and time. I spent so much time troubleshooting, maintaining a windows set up than I do now with an Apple set up.

 

[RedRobin]

Erm... This is not something that's apple products specific. You can do the same with any brand, it's your behaviour not apple. So you are still spending more than you need to for privilege of using Apple products.

My first laptop I kept for 4 years (still works just not powerful enough), second laptop I keep for 5 years (overheats but I could fix it cheaply and I paid 1/3rd price of equally spec'd macbook), for my 3rd and current computer I bought an iMac last year.
My first smartphones was HTC desire HD, kept for 5 years (still works and used around the house as "house" phone). second one was Panasonic DMC-CM1 that I bought for the camera and sold it after two years because I didn't really make use of the nice camera all that much. I replaced it with a £100 Moto g5 last year. Over all spent less that a current new iPhone

So apple has nothing to do with keeping things for a long time (i.e. alluding to reliability), it's your behaviour and possibly because you are skint after spending on apple products so you don't/can't buy a new one as often.

....You seem to be primarily price-led rather than allowing yourself to buy what works best and then enjoying it. I don't understand people whose main joy in what they buy is how little they paid - It's a typical trait of some people and almost a national characteristic.

I have the latest iPad, a 2yo iPhone 7plus and my iMac is a 2011 version still going strong. If I think a latest Canon EOS camera body will enable me (they never guarantee better photos!) to improve and enjoy my wildlife photography more, then I will buy it. Hence I have the EOS R + RF 24-105mm F/4L IS on order < Hey, we are back on topic!

Life is not a rehearsal.

 

[Radiohead]

So you are still spending more than you need to for privilege of using Apple products.

https://stratechery.com/2015/bad-assumptions/

Bad Assumption 1: Markets are monolithic
If you look at a market monolithically, simple math dictates that the average will be most heavily influenced by the majority. And, income distributions being what they are, the majority of customers in any market will have less money, and likely be inclined to prioritize price. Ergo, monolithic market analysis necessarily concludes that customers prioritize price.

Markets, though, are not monolithic. They are wildly disparate, able to be endlessly segmented not just by income, but by a whole host of demographic and psychographic factors. In every market there is a segment of people who have the means to buy nice things, and there is a segment that values a superior experience. These segments quite often overlap, to Apple’s benefit......

Read the rest.

 

[nandbytes]

....You seem to be primarily price-led rather than allowing yourself to buy what works best and then enjoying it. I don't understand people whose main joy in what they buy is how little they paid - It's a typical trait of some people and almost a national characteristic.

I have the latest iPad, a 2yo iPhone 7plus and my iMac is a 2011 version still going strong. If I think a latest Canon EOS camera body will enable me (they never guarantee better photos!) to improve and enjoy my wildlife photography more, then I will buy it. Hence I have the EOS R + RF 24-105mm F/4L IS on order < Hey, we are back on topic!

Life is not a rehearsal.

actually if you read my post again you will notice I am not price-led at all (of course that's a part of decision as it would be for everyone but not the primary concern).

As I said I don't have an iphone because I do not like the user interface.
I had a windows laptop because I played games and some stacking software was available only for windows. You will also notice I said I have recently purchased an iMac because OSX gives me some benefits now that windows didn't.

My camera is also not the cheapest option. I am basically critical of everything I use, anyone who knows my posting history will tell you I dislike everything equally
Don't really care for brands, I see most things as tools and whichever tool makes my life easier I buy that

I am no wildlife expert but from the little I have done 2fps with AF and 24-105mm seems a bit slow and short for wildlife...

 

[nandbytes]

How do you know I am skint and can't buy as often? lol

The MBP that I replaced, it was the BASE model from 2011, cost me £870, even in 2011 it was hardly bank breaking money, 12 months later I got a desktop (I always run 2 side by side) iMac which was the max spec at the time. It is still working, I am upgrading because the CPU inside is so old, Adobe's latest CC won't install on it, which means my Sony RAWs isn't recognised. I am forced not by the Mac OS but Adobe!

I already told you why I don't upgrade as often, it is not about they cost more, I already said I spent less during my 10 years Mac ownership in both money and time. I spent so much time troubleshooting, maintaining a windows set up than I do now with an Apple set up.

it was tongue in cheek comment just to say they are so expensive that they'd leave anyone out of pocket for 5 years (of course an exaggeration lol )

The laptop I bought in 2011 cost me £750, equivalent apple one was around £2K (though OSX was never a consideration since it couldn't play any of the games I wanted to play)
Just saying Apple is not the only option out there with longevity

 

[jonneymendoza]

My ipad

Shoots faster then the Canon

 

[wooster]

The specs does not prevent a good photographer to take excellent photos

Unless it's in the repair centre for a few months

 

[wooster]

I love Apple also

 

[Riz_Guru]

I love Apple also

Me too.... looking forwards to the new iPad Pro for all my photo editing needs

 

[redhed17]

I don't understand people whose main joy in what they buy is how little they paid - It's a typical trait of some people and almost a national characteristic.

I think most people are led by price. Lucky you to be in position for price not to be too high a factor in your purchases.

And if only value for money was a national trait, you would not get as many people paying close to grand for a phone every year or so.

I know the enthusiasts here give a skewed view of the photography world, and how easily people 'seem' to spend money on, what is for most people, a hobby. The buying and selling in the Sony alpha thread boggles me sometimes, and is quite funny, which is why I read a lot of it. Also also how easy, and frequently people change a whole system, or even more extravagantly, have multiple systems. Good luck to them all btw, as long as they are happy, though changing often makes me think they may not be. Hopefully they and their families are not going hungry during the spending.

 

[wooster]

Just had a thought. Would it help this forum if there was a sub-section in the "Equipment" section for different brands? It might help us to concentrate on particular topics more easily.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

iMac 27 2011 still going strong bought a new 2017 model £2500ish sold it as preferred the reflective screen on old one I had kept that iPad but had iPhones but now prefer bigger cheaper Moto g's

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Just had a thought. Would it help this forum if there was a sub-section in the "Equipment" section for different brands? It might help us to concentrate on particular topics more easily.

Might help some

 

[redhed17]

Just had a thought. Would it help this forum if there was a sub-section in the "Equipment" section for different brands? It might help us to concentrate on particular topics more easily.

I think it works on DPReview, but that is a much larger site, and so helps people to find discussions on brands/cameras they are interested in. On DPReview I tend to look in the sections which I have that camera, and so probably miss lots of interesting threads in other sections. Here I think you would end up with a lot less people posting on threads, as I for one post in threads I find interesting, and having them all easily visible helps that. Others may disagree.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

I think most people are led by price. Lucky you to be in position for price not to be too high a factor in your purchases.

And if only value for money was a national trait, you would not get as many people paying close to grand for a phone every year or so.

I know the enthusiasts here give a skewed view of the photography world, and how easily people 'seem' to spend money on, what is for most people, a hobby. The buying and selling in the Sony alpha thread boggles me sometimes, and is quite funny, which is why I read a lot of it. Also also how easy, and frequently people change a whole system, or even more extravagantly, have multiple systems. Good luck to them all btw, as long as they are happy, though changing often makes me think they may not be. Hopefully they and their families are not going hungry during the spending.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Me too.... looking forwards to the new iPad Pro for all my photo editing needs

Another toy to add to the collection eh!

 

[Riz_Guru]

Another toy to add to the collection eh!

Oh yes (in a Churchill dog tone) still got plenty more to buy!

 

[RedRobin]

Don't really care for brands, I see most things as tools and whichever tool makes my life easier I buy that

....Which is why I care for which brands I buy - The brands I buy are brands I feel I can trust to provide me with the tools to make my life easier and which also enable me to continue improving what I enjoy doing.

I am no wildlife expert but from the little I have done 2fps with AF and 24-105mm seems a bit slow and short for wildlife...

....It depends on which species of wildlife. I primarily shoot on a Canon 1DX-2 which is set to 14fps and with either EF 100-400mm or 500mm Canon L II lenses but I also shoot on a Canon EF 100mm F/2.8L IS for close-ups (best shot Manual Focus) on subjects like dragonflies etc. The EOS R will replace my EOS M5 mirrorless which I find uncomfortable and is mounted on the macro lens. But also it makes sense to buy a RF 24-105mm F/4L IS to replace my EF 24-70mm F/4L IS (which I used this morning) as it's available as a kit with the new mirrorless EOS R body. I'm selling my 7D-2 too as I rarely use it since having the 1DX-2.

It varies of course but I go out and shoot between 200 and 1200 nearly every week and sometimes 1500 on a long dawn-til-dusk day where there is plenty of active wildlife.

The great thing about camera systems is that we are offered such a wide choice of horses-for-courses. I'm not interested in changing brand because Canon already offer me tools which I enjoy using.

 

[RedRobin]

I think most people are led by price. Lucky you to be in position for price not to be too high a factor in your purchases.

....Yes I am very lucky and indeed I feel privileged but I am retired and have worked hard running my own successful business. However my business clients were nearly all super rich and I got used to the world of people where what they spend is secondary and when I have the money myself I don't think about it too much.

And if only value for money was a national trait, you would not get as many people paying close to grand for a phone every year or so.

....Rightly or wrongly, many people are quite happy to pay a grand for a phone every time a new phone is even released (several of my younger friends are like that) let alone as long as every couple of years. I kept my iPhone 6 for about 2 years and then gave it to my daughter (a 27yo running her own business in Bristol) which replaced her iPhone 5. I wanted a bigger screen to view and show others my photos. I'll keep my iPhone 7plus until Apple release something I think will really benefit me < The new iPhone X doesn't do it for me.

Having 'Style - Brand - Status' are all integrated.

 

[jonneymendoza]

....Yes I am very lucky and indeed I feel privileged but I am retired and have worked hard running my own successful business. However my business clients were nearly all super rich and I got used to the world of people where what they spend is secondary and when I have the money myself I don't think about it too much.



....Rightly or wrongly, many people are quite happy to pay a grand for a phone every time a new phone is even released (several of my younger friends are like that) let alone as long as every couple of years. I kept my iPhone 6 for about 2 years and then gave it to my daughter (a 27yo running her own business in Bristol) which replaced her iPhone 5. I wanted a bigger screen to view and show others my photos. I'll keep my iPhone 7plus until Apple release something I think will really benefit me < The new iPhone X doesn't do it for me.

Having 'Style - Brand - Status' are all integrated.

I just realised you have a 1dx2

 

[RedRobin]

I just realised you have a 1dx2

....Really? I think that most people here are sick to death of hearing that I have a 1DX-2 . Although I will say that I have only mentioned it when to give context to my opinions or comments, which is quite often.

DPReview have published a more in-depth "First Impressions Review" about the EOS R (link below) and I find it quite objective rather than biassed. In fact it has got me wondering whether I would be wiser to delay buying an EOS R until we see what their next mirrorless R version body will have to offer. The trouble is that this might not be until late 2019 at the earliest and I want to replace my M5 which I'm not fond of using and 7D-2 which I now rarely use [due to me much preferring my.... Yes, you guessed it!], before new versions hit their resale values harder. Perhaps I shouldn't cancel my reservation and instead be prepared to part-exchange it IF the next version ticks more boxes.

DPReview "First Impressions Review" dated 4th October : https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r-first-impressions-review

They are understandably very unimpressed by the way the Multi-Function Bar operates but as I never operate a proper camera with only one hand I don't agree with their handling criticism. I don't drive cars with only one hand on the wheel either!

 

[jonneymendoza]

....Really? I think that most people here are sick to death of hearing that I have a 1DX-2 . Although I will say that I have only mentioned it when to give context to my opinions or comments, which is quite often.

DPReview have published a more in-depth "First Impressions Review" about the EOS R (link below) and I find it quite objective rather than biassed. In fact it has got me wondering whether I would be wiser to delay buying an EOS R until we see what their next mirrorless R version body will have to offer. The trouble is that this might not be until late 2019 at the earliest and I want to replace my M5 which I'm not fond of using and 7D-2 which I now rarely use [due to me much preferring my.... Yes, you guessed it!], before new versions hit their resale values harder. Perhaps I shouldn't cancel my reservation and instead be prepared to part-exchange it IF the next version ticks more boxes.

DPReview "First Impressions Review" dated 4th October : https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r-first-impressions-review

They are understandably very unimpressed by the way the Multi-Function Bar operates but as I never operate a proper camera with only one hand I don't agree with their handling criticism. I don't drive cars with only one hand on the wheel either!

Bro! That's an amazing camera. I nearly got one before the A9 was released!

Why are you even entertaining the idea of getting a canon mirrorless!

 

[Riz_Guru]

Bro! That's an amazing camera. I nearly got one before the A9 was released!

Why are you even entertaining the idea of getting a canon mirrorless!

Mmmmmm fair comment.. Maybe he should try the Sony A9 as that could replace both his EOS 1DX Mark II and desires to get the EOS R?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Mmmmmm fair comment.. Maybe he should try the Sony A9 as that could replace both his EOS 1DX Mark II and desires to get the EOS R?

Yup!

 

[robinsslee]

So @RedRobin are you going to get the EOS R? [emoji41]

 

[redhed17]

DPReview have published a more in-depth "First Impressions Review" about the EOS R (link below) and I find it quite objective rather than biassed.

Mmm, some quotes from the comments about the article.

There's no discussion of lack of joystick, terrible back-button focus location and/or lack of "canon" control wheel. Surprising omissions at this price level since the Nikon and Sony have no issue providing them or their equivalents.

And that's not even the worst omission. The lack of IBIS is incredible. Everyone has been banging on about the Sony mount being too small and here Canon has a huge mount it should mean IBIS is not only much easier to implement (given he extra space latitude) but also more effective giving much better control at low shutter speeds. The failure to offer IBIS, given the enormous lens mount space, is utterly terrible and far more egregious than the one card slot.

$190 for a proprietary UBS-C charger? Combine that with the 1.83x crop video, lack of IBIS, reused sensor, silly function bar, single SD card slot, slow FPS, rolling shutter and battery life and I'm sure the Canon fanatics will be excited.

Some of all that was not mentioned in the article, and they should have been imho. So, unbiased! We'll agree to disagree about that. The last line of the last quote is probably true and is why it will sell well.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Mmm, some quotes from the comments about the article.




Some of all that was not mentioned in the article, and they should have been imho. So, unbiased! We'll agree to disagree about that. The last line of the last quote is probably true and is why it will sell well.

Proper biased. And anyone who has a blooming 1dx2 should be laughing at this camera in all honesty. I though that bloke was coming from a rebel series canon!

 

[jonneymendoza]

So @RedRobin are you going to get the EOS R? [emoji41]

Lol no. His trolling us all. A 1dx2 destroys this toy in almost every way!

 

[redhed17]

Lol no. His trolling us all. A 1dx2 destroys this toy in almost every way!

Not for weight and size.

 

[Riz_Guru]

Not for weight and size.

Yeah but that weight and size will save your life is your attacked innit

 

[nandbytes]

Mmmmmm fair comment.. Maybe he should try the Sony A9 as that could replace both his EOS 1DX Mark II and desires to get the EOS R?

Yup!

considering his tele-lenses collection on canon, i don't think A9 would be such a good idea for him tbh.

 

[jonneymendoza]

considering his tele-lenses collection on canon, i don't think A9 would be such a good idea for him tbh.

And more bizarre to consider this camera [emoji991] lool

 

[Cagey75]

Not my words, but those from an article I read recently, all I could do was nod and go ... MmmmHhhhm

"I shoot with a Sony a7II and corresponding full-frame lenses for the majority of my photography work, and it’s easy to get sucked into specification talk. “Micro contrast”, “razor sharp in the corners”, “cat’s eye shaped bokeh balls” — I’m particularly bad for the last one. Sony pushes specs more than they push feel — all you need to do is read photography forums to find the truth in this."

 

[jonneymendoza]

Not my words, but those from an article I read recently, all I could do was nod and go ... MmmmHhhhm

"I shoot with a Sony a7II and corresponding full-frame lenses for the majority of my photography work, and it’s easy to get sucked into specification talk. “Micro contrast”, “razor sharp in the corners”, “cat’s eye shaped bokeh balls” — I’m particularly bad for the last one. Sony pushes specs more than they push feel — all you need to do is read photography forums to find the truth in this."

His point?

 

[Cagey75]

His point?

Pretty clear to me that Sony cater to gear heads over photographers, ok in the context of the article it'll make more sense, but even stand-alone I would have thought that obvious. I just forgot about people like you, that need over explaining.

http://toolsandtoys.net/reviews/the...ilux-15mm-f1-7-micro-four-thirds-lens-review/

It's a lens review [one that I own] and he's talking about it having a nice 'feel' about it, where Sony gear just feels like gear that is more about spec lists than having any real charm. I see Sony gear that way, I could understand what he meant right off, a butt hurt Sony user won't as readily I guess

 

[Radiohead]

Riiiight.