Canon FF mirrorless...

Will the Snapman ever reach the level of popularity achieved by the Walkman?
 
I was hoping for better. I was ready to look at both Nikon and Canon offerings but for me, getting 2fps in CAF is just not even close to anything I need!
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
well im striking off a FF mirrorless for me for at leat 2 years.
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Same, I don't need or particularly have any desire for one, nor can I afford the lenses I would want to run on them. I can see it just breeding even more GAS. M43 has been fine for me, I don't rely on extreme DR or high ISO performance, maybe a jump back to Fuji will be on the cards but I'm not pushed either way. Once I have a camera at all, I'm a happy chappy.
 
JJ! said:
I might go back to a Brikon lol
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....Don't you mean 'Brickon'? The Canon 1DX is certainly a solid brick but I wouldn't have it any other way.... 'cos I'm a Canon fanboy :D
 
JJ! said:
I was hoping for better. I was ready to look at both Nikon and Canon offerings but for me, getting 2fps in CAF is just not even close to anything I need!
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can't you click faster than that? :D
 
Since this is now the Sony thread I will post my thoughts on why I feel reluctant to buy Sony cameras.

I'm not just biased against them because I did genuinely consider their A6300 for its lightweight APS-C size but was put off by the lenses - in much the same way I'm a bit put off by Canon M lenses ( though at least I can adapt Canon EF lenses via an adaptor )

I have no doubt the Sony does a few things better then the Canon R or other cameras but the reasons I have not considered them for FF are:
  • I am put off by their ergonomics that seem weird to me.
  • Menus and software are below par
  • The lenses seem too expensive and reasonable priced ones seem to have either bad performance and/or QC issues.
  • I would lose too much performance trying to use my Canon lenses with the adaptors available.
  • The cameras have a history of being unreliable.
  • The company has a reputation for being one that does support it's products.
  • Service centres are not owned by Sony
  • I always hear about parts not being available so customers simply having to wait a few months until the next upgrade comes up.
  • The weather sealing is not good which is a bit of a big deal for me personally.
  • Stop down AF is a bummer
  • No lossless compressed RAW
  • Phase Detection AF artifacts
It's mainly these things that have made me reluctant to consider them and if an alternative from Canikon is available with pretty similar specs I'd always go with that. As it happens the R doesn't suit me, though the Z7 would apart from the hassle of switching to Nikon and the dubious AF on that camera.

Now I might be mistaken in some of the reasons for avoiding Sony and I'm always happy to hear of things being better than I thought so I'm not saying that my reasons are completely correct, but I believe they are substantially valid.

I do find it peculiar that the advice everyone always gave about picking a camera was " see which one feels good in your hands" has somehow become irrelevant due to hype about some specs which are largely irrelevant to the photographer's ability to take good photographs.
 
wooster said:
Since this is now the Sony thread I will post my thoughts on why I feel reluctant to buy Sony cameras.

I'm not just biased against them because I did genuinely consider their A6300 for its lightweight APS-C size but was put off by the lenses - in much the same way I'm a bit put off by Canon M lenses ( though at least I can adapt Canon EF lenses via an adaptor )

I have no doubt the Sony does a few things better then the Canon R or other cameras but the reasons I have not considered them for FF are:
  • I am put off by their ergonomics that seem weird to me
    Have you held an A7 gen 3, because you only make a reference to the APSC camera?
  • Menus and software are below par
    The menus are as bad as every other camera, who uses menus anyway, the Sonys have so many buttons to customise you never need the menu unless you want to format your card which you can assign to a easy access menu page
  • The lenses seem too expensive and reasonable priced ones seem to have either bad performance and/or QC issues.
    The lenses cost are pretty much the same as Canikon equivalents, the only lens Ive heard/experienced with QC issues is the Zeiss 35.
  • I would lose too much performance trying to use my Canon lenses with the adaptors available.
    Then buy Sony lenses?
  • The cameras have a history of being unreliable.
    Source? Because Ive been using Sony CSC since NEX3 days, never had any issues, seen 1 recall for an A9 screw (unlike other brands).
  • The company has a reputation for being one that does support it's products.
    Does Canikon offer major performance enhancements via FW?
  • Service centres are not owned by Sony
    Sony is increasing their pro support levels
  • I always hear about parts not being available so customers simply having to wait a few months until the next upgrade comes up.
    Source?
  • The weather sealing is not good which is a bit of a big deal for me personally.
    This they can work on
  • Stop down AF is a bummer
    Micro adjusted and approximate AF with no Eye AF is also a bummer, so is smaller AF frame coverage.
  • No lossless compressed RAW
    Shoot 14 bit, lossless would be good but storage is cheap and gen 3 have good buffer
  • Phase Detection AF artifacts
    Ive run 8,500 actuations through mine, a lot of them strong backlight and never seen it. I was initially concerned about this before I bought my A7iii. Also, see Nikon z7.
It's mainly these things that have made me reluctant to consider them and if an alternative from Canikon is available with pretty similar specs I'd always go with that. As it happens the R doesn't suit me, though the Z7 would apart from the hassle of switching to Nikon and the dubious AF on that camera.

Now I might be mistaken in some of the reasons for avoiding Sony and I'm always happy to hear of things being better than I thought so I'm not saying that my reasons are completely correct, but I believe they are substantially valid.

I do find it peculiar that the advice everyone always gave about picking a camera was " see which one feels good in your hands" has somehow become irrelevant due to hype about some specs which are largely irrelevant to the photographer's ability to take good photographs.
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@wooster
 
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wooster said:
Since this is now the Sony thread I will post my thoughts on why I feel reluctant to buy Sony cameras.

I'm not just biased against them because I did genuinely consider their A6300 for its lightweight APS-C size but was put off by the lenses - in much the same way I'm a bit put off by Canon M lenses ( though at least I can adapt Canon EF lenses via an adaptor )

I have no doubt the Sony does a few things better then the Canon R or other cameras but the reasons I have not considered them for FF are:
  • I am put off by their ergonomics that seem weird to me.
  • Menus and software are below par
  • The lenses seem too expensive and reasonable priced ones seem to have either bad performance and/or QC issues.
  • I would lose too much performance trying to use my Canon lenses with the adaptors available.
  • The cameras have a history of being unreliable.
  • The company has a reputation for being one that does support it's products.
  • Service centres are not owned by Sony
  • I always hear about parts not being available so customers simply having to wait a few months until the next upgrade comes up.
  • The weather sealing is not good which is a bit of a big deal for me personally.
  • Stop down AF is a bummer
  • No lossless compressed RAW
  • Phase Detection AF artifacts
It's mainly these things that have made me reluctant to consider them and if an alternative from Canikon is available with pretty similar specs I'd always go with that. As it happens the R doesn't suit me, though the Z7 would apart from the hassle of switching to Nikon and the dubious AF on that camera.

Now I might be mistaken in some of the reasons for avoiding Sony and I'm always happy to hear of things being better than I thought so I'm not saying that my reasons are completely correct, but I believe they are substantially valid.

I do find it peculiar that the advice everyone always gave about picking a camera was " see which one feels good in your hands" has somehow become irrelevant due to hype about some specs which are largely irrelevant to the photographer's ability to take good photographs.
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You do realise Nikon has the same PDAF Artifacts and it's many times worst than on Sony.
 
nandbytes said:
You do realise Nikon has the same PDAF Artifacts and it's many times worst than on Sony.
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Interesting - where is the review of a released product rather than a pre-production version that states it is many times worse than the Sony?
 
just got a full hands on review through the door this morning in the latest eos magazine , with future mirrorless predictions included . haven't yet read it .
 
robinsslee said:
It's just amazing the internet nowadays where people can list pros and cons without even trying the camera :D
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If you are comparing specs, then yes you can. :)

Now the performance of similar specs then that is where the reviews, and in an ideal world, many users using the actual things come in to make a more informed comparison/assessment/choice. If indeed you are considering buying. ;)
 
Fraser Euan White said:
Interesting - where is the review of a released product rather than a pre-production version that states it is many times worse than the Sony?
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If you're expecting them to replace the PDAF system with something else on the release product, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.

It's part and parcel of the design they opted for, I don't know how severe it is but I'd be lying if I said I was expecting much different results than found on a Sony.
 
Nope, @nandbytes - read the review again specifically the bit about PDAF banding and there is definitely no mention of it being much worse than the Sony - can you copy & paste the bit of the review I'm missing?
 
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Fraser Euan White said:
Nope, @nandbytes - read the review again specifically the bit about PDAF banding and there is definitely no mention of it being much worse than the Sony - can you copy & paste the bit of the review I'm missing?
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Yep, go look at the examples and decide for yourself.
Gaz J said:
FFS How about you Sony fanboys posting Nikon/Sony stuff in the respective threads unless it directly compares to Canon.
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If you think I am Sony fanboy you obviously don't know me or read any of my posts
But I do apologize for derailing things here I won't continue this discussion here anymore
 
robinsslee said:
It's just amazing the internet nowadays where people can list pros and cons without even trying the camera :D
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True, but I don’t need to try the Canon as it clearly isn’t fast enough for my needs. On the fence about the Z6 and still not convinced with the A7iii yet. It’s still on trial lol

Edit.... also not a fan boy of any brand! I’m easily swayed one way or the other lol
 
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nandbytes said:
You do realise Nikon has the same PDAF Artifacts and it's many times worst than on Sony.
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Not likely to buy it either re the AF thing point I made.
robinsslee said:
It's just amazing the internet nowadays where people can list pros and cons without even trying the camera :D
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Very true. If it wasn't for that fact, I'm not sure how popular Sony would be at all. I have handled Sony cameras and had experience of their service ( though not service on the A7 series but same company ) The technical/reliability issues are well documented and not false but if people want to ignore these and go ahead then I am happy for them. I am happy for all who enjoy their cameras. As I say, they are in many ways superior to other offerings and I have no desire to p*** on anyone's chips :)
 
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Oh my, The 666 Posts!!! :D

redhed17 said:
If you are comparing specs, then yes you can. :)

Now the performance of similar specs then that is where the reviews, and in an ideal world, many users using the actual things come in to make a more informed comparison/assessment/choice. If indeed you are considering buying. ;)
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True, but not in the level of comparing the specs and decided that Brand A Model X is worse than others :)

JJ! said:
True, but I don’t need to try the Canon as it clearly isn’t fast enough for my needs. On the fence about the Z6 and still not convinced with the A7iii yet. It’s still on trial lol

Edit.... also not a fan boy of any brand! I’m easily swayed one way or the other lol
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It is fact that Canon has not come out any "Fast" camera per se. If I were to pick now, I'll be surely leaning towards Sony A7III :) Actually, I am in the decision of getting an A7III and adapter for a try, I still have the Two Brilliant Contax 35-70mm f/3.4 and Zuiko 40mm F/2 pancake waiting for me to use plus Canon EFs. :canon:

wooster said:
Very true. If it wasn't for that fact, I'm not sure how popular Sony would be at all. I have handled Sony cameras and had experience of their service ( though not service on the A7 series but same company ) The technical/reliability issues are well documented and not false but if people want to ignore these and go ahead then I am happy for them. I am happy for all who enjoy their cameras. As I say, they are in many ways superior to other offerings and I have no desire to p*** on anyone's chips :)
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Judging from the third party lenses and accessories, it is sure gaining the popularity. :)
 
robinsslee said:
Judging from the third party lenses and accessories, it is sure gaining the popularity. :)
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It absolutely is. To make myself clear, I believe in terms of a lot of specs and image quality it seems to be a better camera than the EOS R but the list I made would still deter me because there's (for me) quite a few dealbreakers in it
 
twist said:
@wooster
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I completely get that you're prepared to accept these issues as not being compromises which is absolutely fine by me. That is your preference. The fact that I am not is also a personal preference. I am not trying to win an argument here I'm just mentioning my own thoughts. Enjoy your Sony. I'm happy you like it (y)
 
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SsSsSsSsSnake said:
My ipad
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apple-fanboy1.jpg
 
Cagey75 said:
apple-fanboy1.jpg
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lol

I totally get the hate, but I have actually spent less money on computers and phones since I switched to Apple. I used to keep switching phones like every year or two. Now I keep my iPhone minimum of 4 years. iPhone 1, iPhone 4 and iPhone 6 are all the phones that i've had all these years. In the same time, I have had 1 Apple laptop, and 2 desktop, never formatted them at all either.

I really spent less time fixing my computers compare to my windows days, spent less time upgrading, spent less on hardware, they might cost more initially but I find I just spent less overall in the long run.

Ahem….time to replace my 2011 MBP :D

lYy51bw.png
 
Raymond Lin said:
lol

I totally get the hate, but I have actually spent less money on computers and phones since I switched to Apple. I used to keep switching phones like every year or two. Now I keep my iPhone minimum of 4 years. iPhone 1, iPhone 4 and iPhone 6 are all the phones that i've had all these years. In the same time, I have had 1 Apple laptop, and 2 desktop, never formatted them at all either.

I really spent less time fixing my computers compare to my windows days, spent less time upgrading, spent less on hardware, they might cost more initially but I find I just spent less overall in the long run.

Ahem….time to replace my 2011 MBP :D

lYy51bw.png
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I've owned an iPad and 2 iPhones, had the original iPad mini [actually won 4 playing poker, gave one to each family member] Our daughter currently has 2x iPad Air - one is strictly for her secondary/high school, they don't use physical text books, everything is done through the pads which are mandatory for that particular school. It's pretty cool, as she is on crutches, and not having to carry a hefty bag is a big bonus [the reason we fought to get her in there, still had to fork out €600 at the time for the pad + pre-installed software - it is a 'mainstream' school but she happens to have special needs] - she also has an iPod. I will admit the iPads are great for that purpose, it's a lot easier for her to type than write too as she gets cramps from pen writing. We still have 2 original iPad minis, one broke down, the other has a badly cracked screen but our 10yr old doesn't care, she's using that one. Me, I'm done with them, I'm Android and Windows now - I had the iPhone 4 and got on fine with it, but upgraded to the iPhone 5 on contract when they had just been released. It bricked a month after the 1 year warranty was up, for no apparent reason. Just plain died! And they would do nothing for me, so I bought a cheap Android and been upgrading through them since. When I look at my daughter's iPad now, she'll come to me for tech support here and there or help with homework - it looks to me like nothing has changed on iOS, that same, dull grey theme, the same old icons - I just prefer the customization on Android, and the fact I can have a phone with a faster processor, bigger, higher res screen, for 1/3rd the price! I'm not so much anti-apple, more I like to change things up a lot, and going from iPhone to iPhone would just bore me to tears. I almost forgot we have a macbook here too that is also dead. It was only about 6mths old too, somehow the apple logo on back got cracked ... and messed up the screen, nobody knows how it happened - one of those family mysteries ... my missus paid £1300 for that one, she got a quote of 600 to fix the screen and never bothered. That was really unfortunate. Still in the box here in the bedroom, I don't know why she doesn't sell it on as broken, as she can't even look at it.
 
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Cagey75 said:
I've owned an iPad and 2 iPhones, had the original iPad mini [actually won 4 playing poker, gave one to each family member] Our daughter currently has 2x iPad Air - one is strictly for her secondary/high school, they don't use physical text books, everything is done through the pads which are mandatory for that particular school. It's pretty cool, as she is on crutches, and not having to carry a hefty bag is a big bonus [the reason we fought to get her in there, still had to fork out €600 at the time for the pad + pre-installed software - it is a 'mainstream' school but she happens to have special needs] - she also has an iPod. I will admit the iPads are great for that purpose, it's a lot easier for her to type than write too as she gets cramps from pen writing. We still have 2 original iPad minis, one broke down, the other has a badly cracked screen but our 10yr old doesn't care, she's using that one. Me, I'm done with them, I'm Android and Windows now - I had the iPhone 4 and got on fine with it, but upgraded to the iPhone 5 on contract when they had just been released. It bricked a month after the 1 year warranty was up, for no apparent reason. Just plain died! And they would do nothing for me, so I bought a cheap Android and been upgrading through them since. When I look at my daughter's iPad now, she'll come to me for tech support here and there or help with homework - it looks to me like nothing has changed on iOS, that same, dull grey theme, the same old icons - I just prefer the customization on Android, and the fact I can have a phone with a faster processor, bigger, higher res screen, for 1/3rd the price! I'm not so much anti-apple, more I like to change things up a lot, and going from iPhone to iPhone would just bore me to tears.
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I got past the "need to spice things up" urge a long time ago.

12 months ago I smashed the screen on my iPhone and bought a £200 android phone….it was okay but do you know the first thing i did? Put a skin on it and start customising it too look and behave like an iPhone. I took it to Japan with me and used it for 2 weeks but when i got home I fixed the iPhone and went back to it since.

After a while, the most customising i do is the wall paper, on the iPhone 1 I used to jailbreak and then changes everything but now i just want it working.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I got past the "need to spice things up" urge a long time ago.

12 months ago I smashed the screen on my iPhone and bought a £200 android phone….it was okay but do you know the first thing i did? Put a skin on it and start customising it too look and behave like an iPhone. I took it to Japan with me and used it for 2 weeks but when i got home I fixed the iPhone and went back to it since.

After a while, the most customising i do is the wall paper, on the iPhone 1 I used to jailbreak and then changes everything but now i just want it working.
Click to expand...

I had forgotten to add in the macbook, that was just a random disaster though. I wonder what it's worth to someone who could mend it hhmmm ..

A few friends of mine have iPhones and would never change, I think I just prefer cheap and cheerful Chinese knock offs because I'm prone to breaking stuff :D That, and I really only use my phone for checking mail, the weather, watching random youtube vids and making the odd phone call - I never even use the camera

Had to actually double check what my phone is called, it's a Xaomi Redmi Note 3 Pro, which is probably 2 years outdated by now. I still have the box and manuals etc, while I am unlucky and things break or get lost on me, I do actually take good care of these things, as in, it still looks good as new - but likely to break randomly at any moment :D just not so lucky with them. Or you could say I'm a careless fool, I drowned a 2 month old Samsung S6 because my swimming trunks had pockets ... whoops!

It's actually not a bad phone for watching movies or playing the odd game, it's more than I need really. If the camera was better in low light I'm sure I'd use it more, that's when I tend to reach for it, at a party, or dinner, where I've not brought the camera. Then I remember it sucks and put it away
 
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As we are now discussing mobile phones and pads etc, as well as being a Canon fanboy I am an Apple fanboy and have used Apple products since 1998.

As a photographer I like my iPhone 7 Plus because of its large screen - I automatically sync my iPhone and iPad with my wildlife pictures and the larger phone screen is better for enjoying them. The mothership is a 27" iMac.
 
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