Canon FF mirrorless...

These are mighty impressive images, Robin. I'm pretty sure the M5 will do me nicely :)

I know the 5Div will :)
 
RedRobin said:
....I feel confident you will enjoy the 5D-4 < I did.

The M5 delivers excellent image quality which is indistinguishable from the 7D-2. See what you think of IQ in my M5 album on Flickr :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/114775606@N07/albums/72157683996949495

@Phil V uses a M5 too I think. I have only mounted EF lenses on mine (soon to be for sale).
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I'm just wondering if you stick your lens on a tripod for these macros, Robin? I assume you have the Canon 100mm f2.8 which will take a collar. Do you use one? Also would the body lens mount be robust enough to use such a lens without a collar while the body is attached to a tripod?
 
RedRobin said:
....I wanted to go to that event but Canon only emailed me about it AFTER the date it was held!! Duh! Not clever, Canon! My daughter lives in Bristol and I could have stayed overnight at her house.

As I already have the mirrorless EOS M5, which I only use with EF lenses via Canon's adapter, I am already at basecamp for the mirrorless EOS R. Currently my intention is to replace my M5 with the R body and my only slight hesitation is if another higher end EOS R body is officially, not rumoured, announced to be released within a two or three months.

If a higher end R body is released after I have bought the first version, there is no reason I can't part-ex but I would only do so IF the newer features satisfy my requirements - Faster fps and retaining a fully articulated screen.
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There were a number of existing M users that were off to place an order.
 
wooster said:
I'm just wondering if you stick your lens on a tripod for these macros, Robin? I assume you have the Canon 100mm f2.8 which will take a collar. Do you use one? Also would the body lens mount be robust enough to use such a lens without a collar while the body is attached to a tripod?
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....No, I haven't used a tripod on any of the macros in my Flickr album except one which was with my Canon 100-400mm L II with 1.4x III Extender on my Skimmer 'pod.

Yes, I have shot them on my Canon 100mm F/2.8L IS Macro with Kenko 1.4x. I keep the lens collar foot attached to that lens just in case and think it is more secure than using a foot attached to the M5 Adapter.

The M5 body lens mount (the EF lens adapter) might be strong enough but the physical balance is better when using the lens collar.

There is someone in the M-series thread on TP who has reported mounting his Canon 100-400mm L II on his M5 but although it functions perfectly well, I think the balance is poor < I have this lens and have tested it.

When shooting close-ups/macro, I usually switch the lens to MF and use focus peaking display. AF can be very tricky when very close and, as we all know only too well, DoF is even trickier!

I hope this helps.
 
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@wooster : If you do buy an EOS M5, buy an extra 2 spare batteries because the M5 drinks them as if it had just driven a F1 race in Singapore! I am sure it's a secret night time drinker because the battery juice gets consumed even when the camera is switched off and not used for a few days. And that's in spite of me having the GPS disabled which is well known for being a heavy drinker.

All mirrorless cameras drink more battery juice because of powering the EVF and other electronic actions < This will include the new EOS R and doubtless why a battery grip is being released by Canon at the same time. However, I think fitting a battery grip contradicts part of the reason for me buying the R < Being a tad smaller than Canon's flagship D-SLR. If I was to name my 1DX-2 I would name her 'Victory' after HMS Victory.

Also, if you buy any M-series, check out this thread for advice etc : https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/canon-eos-m-series-cameras.443621/page-117

:)
 
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Are the batteries for the M5 really that poor? I get a couple days easily on the G80, I have one spare battery, didn't buy anymore because when I had the Em5 I had 5 batteries and never needed more than 2 when out shooting. The G80 seems to be pretty good with battery life for a ML though I have to say, better than the XT1
 
I did well over a thousand shots and a couple of small videos at the Fairford airshow this year with the M5 and EF 100-400mm II. It was on AF.C, fast burst mode and I changed the battery once.I also use it for macro with the Canon 100mmL, MP-E65mm and Sigma 180mm and can use a battery in a few hours because you are constantly chimping your shots via the viewfinder or screen checking composition and sharpness.

Just depends on what you are shooting at the time.
 
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That's why my batts last I guess, I very rarely ever switch out of single shot mode.
 
Well, with macro/close-up work it is very helpful to constantly chimp-n-check various things including the histogram (I don't like the histogram cluttering up my viewfinder).

Mike.P said:
Just depends on what you are shooting at the time.
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....Certainly, but I have found my M5 heavy on batteries even when not used for a few days - I can't figure that one out :thinking:. And they are Canon batteries, not cheapo fleeBay jobbies.

Cagey75 said:
That's why my batts last I guess, I very rarely ever switch out of single shot mode.
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....As I only shoot wildlife (and exclusively RAW), I very very rarely switch out of burst mode at highest setting in spite of being able to only squeeze one off at a time.

I wonder if shooting RAW adds to battery consumption.
 
wooster said:
Re clubs, my experience of the only one I was ever a member of was different. I might have been lucky but I was made to feel most welcome and people offered to help me with all aspects of my photography.. Competitions were light- hearted affairs with some pretty good stuff being shown and constructive criticism mixed with some good-natured banter was the predominant tone. I really enjoyed it and only stopped going when I moved :)
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This is my experience too. Our chair is also a judge and says he comes across a lot of small clubs with aging membership who will probably close soon. I think a good club (and this one is) is not only a social place but encourages learning and difference. Ours has around 140 members signed up so we can get good speakers. So, camera clubs are not all bad.
 
RedRobin said:
Well, with macro/close-up work it is very helpful to constantly chimp-n-check various things including the histogram (I don't like the histogram cluttering up my viewfinder).



....Certainly, but I have found my M5 heavy on batteries even when not used for a few days - I can't figure that one out :thinking:. And they are Canon batteries, not cheapo fleeBay jobbies.



....As I only shoot wildlife (and exclusively RAW), I very very rarely switch out of burst mode at highest setting in spite of being able to only squeeze one off at a time.

I wonder if shooting RAW adds to battery consumption.
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I only shoot RAW too, and I am guilty of chimping no matter what the subject. I also do macro, but I try keep the shot count down, part of that is me really not liking having to go through tonnes of the same image to find the best. Thinking on it, I rarely do over 100 odd shots per casual outing so I'd probably get a couple days from the M5 too
 
Cagey75 said:
I only shoot RAW too, and I am guilty of chimping no matter what the subject. I also do macro, but I try keep the shot count down, part of that is me really not liking having to go through tonnes of the same image to find the best. Thinking on it, I rarely do over 100 odd shots per casual outing so I'd probably get a couple days from the M5 too
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....Yes, me thinking more on it too, on the M5 I rarely shoot more than 100 on a day out and a battery will then usually last me a couple of days out like you. It's the emptying of the M5's batteries (not just having one dud one for example) when switched off and not in use which is what I don't understand.

Coming back to the EOS R, being mirrorless it will be much heavier on battery fuel than a D-SLR and especially driving a nice big EVF and high quality screen I expect. But fortunately it is powered by LP-E6N batteries which are much more long lasting than the relatively small size LP-E17 in the M5. And even more fortunately I will already have six LP-E6N ready to power my forthcoming mirrorless EOS R.
 
watched a couple of vids on this now, looks like the ergonomics are fantastic. Also seems the viewfinder is zero blackout between shots, the Sony users seem to like this feature. Focus on ef lenes looks much better than some have reported as well, and it seems 5fps is poss with af.
Theres always going to be things that could be better, but for me there's not much more I would need or like. When we get a couple of smaller native primes released I think it will be a great system.
TBH I think this is looking like a great 6d/6d mk11 replacement and bodes well for other canon ff mirrorless releases.
 
Do You think Canon will now change its strategy and release new versions of there cameras quicker or will they stick to the 4 year cycle?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Do You think Canon will now change its strategy and release new versions of there cameras quicker or will they stick to the 4 year cycle?
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....Who knows < Only Canon know the answer to that question, the rest is pure speculation.

However, if a 4-year cycle is historical it doesn't mean that Canon are locked into it but they tend to only release products when they are sufficiently happy with them and they have tended to ignore what their rivals are doing while they get on with their own development behind closed doors.

I used to use the Nikon F 35mm system back in the day and naturally upgraded my Nikon F4(?) body when Autofocus was introduced but I found it somewhat clunky and Windows-esque in its operation as if it had just been quickly bolted on as an afterthought. It wasn't until a whole year later that Canon launched the first EOS cameras and I remember thinking how weird they were and that I could never get on with one.... until I tried one in a shop! I sold all my Nikon gear and have never looked back and bought an EOS 650 and later an EOS-1.

Personally I don't want Canon to shove out new releases of existing models sooner than they do already. I don't mind if they release a couple of more high-end EOS R new model bodies soon. But having said that, I only bought my 1DX-2 in May and I will want to replace my 500mm F/4L II with a lighter weight version III if it is released, so it all gets mighty expensive!
 
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Cagey75 said:
Seems to be a bit more useful than it first seemed. I for one imagined it would be glitchy and laggy, but looks to be very responsive, might turn out to be a great idea after all.
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....I make no apologies for being a Canon 'fanboy' and although I have yet to actually handle and use a EOS R and its Multi-Function Bar feature, I consequently have faith in it working well and having a lot of potential in helping achieve more keepers in my wildlife photography efforts. It's most exciting aspect is its ability to be customised in numerous ways.

Canon's Control Ring feature is also exciting me and I am impatient to receive my EOS R + RF 24-105mm F/4L IS.
 
RedRobin said:
However, if a 4-year cycle is historical it doesn't mean that Canon are locked into it but they tend to only release products when they are sufficiently happy with them and they have tended to ignore what their rivals are doing while they get on with their own development behind closed doors.

Personally I don't want Canon to shove out new releases of existing models sooner than they do already. I don't mind if they release a couple of more high-end EOS R new model bodies soon. But having said that, I only bought my 1DX-2 in May and I will want to replace my 500mm F/4L II with a lighter weight version III if it is released, so it all gets mighty expensive!
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Canon are falling behind in sensor technology or they merely did not want to release it to the consumer as soon as we have hoped for. Price point, well it's not what I was expecting as well.

500mm III - don't release it too soon, I want to sell mine first before they release :p
 
Cagey75 said:
I'm sure there's some decent clubs about, with genuinely nice people, my experience just felt like an old episode of the Twilight Zone, or maybe more like it should have been based here ...
tumblr_lnkyiigT2j1qm7srzo1_500.jpg
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Just like the Hotel California:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqPtz5qN7HM


Once in never out!
.
 
jonneymendoza said:
A lot can happen at that time. Tech moves very fast and canon could potentially make more money releasing frequently
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only from silly buggers who buy every new version.
Lets face it Any good photographer can take great pics with cameras well out of date, its just the lust for new kit that drives buying for latest tech all the time. not that there's anything wrong with that
an extra stop of DR, or two frames per sec higher might sometimes get "the pic" but a highly skilled user can preempt the action and still get the bacon. the difference now is most average users can crank the shadows and highlights and shoot of 500 frames and walk away with a great shot or two.
 
niko said:
only from silly buggers who buy every new version.
Lets face it Any good photographer can take great pics with cameras well out of date, its just the lust for new kit that drives buying for latest tech all the time. not that there's anything wrong with that
an extra stop of DR, or two frames per sec higher might sometimes get "the pic" but a highly skilled user can preempt the action and still get the bacon. the difference now is most average users can crank the shadows and highlights and shoot of 500 frames and walk away with a great shot or two.
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There are many that to buy the latest and greatest especially the younger generations.listen it is not forcing you to upgrade. So u don't have to. But it gives others the option to
 
jonneymendoza said:
There are many that to buy the latest and greatest especially the younger generations.listen it is not forcing you to upgrade. So u don't have to. But it gives others the option to
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hence my saying "nothing wrong with that" but I would personally prefer that the research was focused on bigger/better upgrades or just fully working and reliable cameras every 4/5 years that smaller upgrades and unreliable tech yearly. its like mobiles I just don't see the need for so many releases. well that's not true, I do see the benefit to the manufacturer just not really to the consumer
 
If you are still following this thread and are still interested in Canon's mirrorless EOS R, here is a very recent (27th September) and I think very objective review of the whole R system as currently known. It's on the Imaging Resource website which I think is usually worth reading :

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-eos-r/canon-eos-rA.HTM#shooting1

It has got me wondering whether the relatively slow fps is going to frustrate me too much for action shots of wildlife and it's disappointing to hear that the Multi-Function Bar has a delay when touched but I guess it depends what you decide to program onto it whether that matters.

I don't agree with the reviewer about the position of the on/off switch < I prefer it on the left like my other Canon bodies. Also, I have never liked the small buttons on the top of the EOS D-SLR bodies anyway. All this is just personal preferences.
 
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I'm still rather gobsmacked at the price of it.. I won't be getting one but not just for the startling price. Gear release overload, perhaps.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Well the A7mk3 comes close!
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It really really doesn't, while I like the A73 a lot and think it's one of the best mirrorless cameras (which we'll no doubt be able to say of every manufacturer's because they all make good cameras) it has a laundry list of issues so let's not do the annoying fanboy thing of pretending it's 'the best' or even close.

The crowning achievement of the A73 is its price, no one seems to be close to matching it in that regard, especially considering it's a lot cheaper outside Europe.
 
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simonbarker said:
It really really doesn't, while I like the A73 a lot and think it's one of the best it has a laundry list of issues so let's not do the annoying fanboy thing of pretending it's 'the best' or even close.

The crowning achievement of the A73 is its price, no one seems to be close to matching it in that regard, especially considering it's a lot cheaper outside Europe.
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Imo it's price performance is the best.
 
simonbarker said:
It really really doesn't, while I like the A73 a lot and think it's one of the best mirrorless cameras (which we'll no doubt be able to say of every manufacturer's because they all make good cameras) it has a laundry list of issues so let's not do the annoying fanboy thing of pretending it's 'the best' or even close.
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Looking at things objectively, out of the current mirrorless FF cameras imho, from a performance point of view, the Sony a7's (whether you need high resolution or not) are the best overall package. They may have things wrong with them, as has been said, no camera is perfect, but I would say there are more negatives from the competition, especially when it comes to AF, IBIS, Fps. And that's Fps with AF and exposure btw, as everyone would expect it to be measured. ;) :rolleyes:

I'm aware that not everyone wants/needs high Fps, but better to have it and not have to use it than not have it and occasionally need to use it. ;) Same with all features, there may be features that people may personally not use, or use that often, but better to have them, and maybe be class leading with a feature you may rarely use than not have it. I don't personally take pics of people that often, so I would appreciate something like the eye detection to make it as easy as possible when I did need it. And from almost every report so far the Sony eye AF is the best, and the others are not that close yet.

Now when you start to factor in other things like possible brand loyalty to one company or another, what equipment you may already have, availability of specific lenses you may want to use, etc the water becomes a little more muddy to make a clear choice, but from a specs standpoint, the Sony's are the best, again, imho, and the cameras Canon, Nikon and Panasonic (unknown as yet) and whoever else haven't come close to matching the third versions of the a7's yet. And it may take years for anyone else to get close to Sony, if they ever do, as while the others are trying to catch up, Sony are not standing still. Add to that they may also be doing all this and still have the cheapest cameras, and they look more attractive. Obviously you don't agree with that. And that's fine. :)
 
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