Canon FF mirrorless...

simonbarker said:
I'm not sure I can trust the opinion of someone who thought those gigantic hoops in their earlobes was a good idea.
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Well the other guy wears a man bob and tacky rings on his fingers, I don't know which is worse either
 
sorry to mention Sony again but according to there photokina presentation. they say they are the number one mirrorless worldwide @Phil V I wonder where they got there figures from as you say Canon are.
 
jonneymendoza said:
sorry to mention Sony again but according to there photokina presentation. they say they are the number one mirrorless worldwide @Phil V I wonder where they got there figures from as you say Canon are.
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Fair point... here is some further statements from Sony's presentation....

  • Sony has the #1 share of the full frame market in the world
  • They’re #1 in mirrorless share in the world.
  • Sony is #1 when it comes to sensor manufacturing and EVF manufacturing
  • The resolution of the full frame sensor has gone beyond what 35mm film is capable of doing.
  • Their new XA lens elements are designed to achieve high surface precision
  • The E mount system has 48 lenses
  • Sony will be adding more lenses to the system to make it up to 60 in the near future. They didn’t say what lenses are coming though.
  • Sony’s Eye AF is more advanced than those from other companies’.
  • Eye AF is coming to animals soon

The Panasonic presentation was very interesting too, they are using the exiting Lecia L-mount going forwards, Lecia make some pretty decent glass.
I still think Canon got it wrong and should have gone all out.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Ray??

:LOL:
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Raymond Lin said:
He is a likeable guy, knows his stuff but I can see he will go back to his 1D for his main work, stuff that he doesn’t need a flip screen, when someone is so used to the 1080/120, losing it is like losing a creative tool...he will go back.

Also, as much as I think those adaptor are great, they are for adapted lenses, eventually when Canon’s native lens lineup is fuller, you won’t be using these adaptors for native lenses. Canon in the end wants you to rebuy your 14mm EF with a native one and spend more money with them.
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I told you so.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I told you so.
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He's not 'going back to it' though, he never left it, his R video was a paid advert it seems. Makes no odds to me, but you really can't trust any of these youtube heads, they are of course, in it for the money as much as anything else. Even the ones I do like, I take their word with a pinch of salt.
 
jonneymendoza said:
sorry to mention Sony again but according to there photokina presentation. they say they are the number one mirrorless worldwide @Phil V I wonder where they got there figures from as you say Canon are.
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I used the latest CIPA figures I could find online without purchasing a licence to use their analysis software. :)

However, here’s how ‘time’ works, when I posted that...
Chas Hodges was still alive
Bill Cosby hadn’t been to prison as a sex offender
The best way to see my work was to visit my website.

None of those things are true any longer... we can only work with the facts known at the time of posting. ;)

Now surely, it doesn’t take a great intellect to see that your posts about Sony’s news really ought to be in the Sony thread where they’ll be universally welcomed? :thinking:

I don’t want to keep repeating myself, but filling the Canon thread with Sony news can only be described as Spamming.
 
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Phil V said:
I used the latest CIPA figures I could find online without purchasing a licence to use their analysis software. :)

However, here’s how ‘time’ works, when I posted that...
Chas Hodges was still alive
Bill Cosby hadn’t been to prison as a sex offender
The best way to see my work was to visit my website.

None of those things are true any longer... we can only work with the facts known at the time of posting. ;)

Now surely, it doesn’t take a great intellect to see that your posts about Sony’s news really ought to be in the Sony thread where they’ll be universally welcomed? :thinking:

I don’t want to keep repeating myself, but filling the Canon thread with Sony news can only be described as Spamming.
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yea i wasnt meant to spam, just tryingt o gauge how mirrorless is doing for canon really.

Anyways back on point, what do you think of the EOS-R and would you yourself get one? Or are you sticking to the canon M camera you have?
 
Apologies for further polluting this thread with Sony, but...

I have no reason to dispute Sony's figures, but I always treat marketing statistics with a healthy skepticism unless from a reputable independent source.

SonyPhotokina2018.jpg
 
jonneymendoza said:
yea i wasnt meant to spam, just tryingt o gauge how mirrorless is doing for canon really.

Anyways back on point, what do you think of the EOS-R and would you yourself get one? Or are you sticking to the canon M camera you have?
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Ive no current desire to get the EOS-R, though of course that doesn’t mean I won’t end up with a FF mirrorless in the future.

The M5 is my ‘leisure’ camera (been known to describe it as my toy camera), though I might need a new term for that as I’m no longer actively pursuing paid work, maybe all my cameras are now ‘leisure’ cams :thinking:

The EOS R is more money than I’ve ever spent on a camera, and offers nothing extra I need. I’m not the target market, though I’m possibly close to it.
 
Whilst I’ve long championed the completely electronic EF mount as Canon investing in the future from a long time ago, their mirrorless future may well be threatened by that very same technology.

There are already plenty of Sony users who claim excellent performance with EF lenses.

And now Panasonic and Sigma have announced new L mount FF cameras with an EF adaptor being a key selling point, they could soon be followed by Leica, though of course Leica buyers wouldn’t want to sully their male jewellery with Japanese optics.
 
jonneymendoza said:
So has he already done a complete U-TURN and said he will stick to using teh 1dx2?
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Well he's not using the "R" any more. I don' know what he's doing or why because his annoying style of video is so crammed with glitz in an attempt to mask the total lack of content that it was too annoying to watch for more than a few seconds.
 
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wooster said:
Well he's not using the "R" any more. I don' know what he's doing or why because his annoying style of video is so crammed with glitz in an attempt to mask the total lack of content that it was too annoying to watch for more than a few seconds.
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It was only a few days ago he had gotten a boner about the Eos R
 
Phil V said:
Now surely, it doesn’t take a great intellect to see that your posts about Sony’s news really ought to be in the Sony thread where they’ll be universally welcomed? :thinking:

I don’t want to keep repeating myself, but filling the Canon thread with Sony news can only be described as Spamming.
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.... HEAR! HEAR!!

Riz_Guru said:
Fair point... here is some further statements from Sony's presentation....
  • Eye AF is coming to animals soon
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....Now THAT is very interesting. But I am very comfortable with using my Canon EOS system and not about to change. Besides, I expect that Canon will also introduce Eye AF for animals in due course.

:canon:
 
Phil V said:
Ive no current desire to get the EOS-R, though of course that doesn’t mean I won’t end up with a FF mirrorless in the future.

The M5 is my ‘leisure’ camera (been known to describe it as my toy camera), though I might need a new term for that as I’m no longer actively pursuing paid work, maybe all my cameras are now ‘leisure’ cams :thinking:

The EOS R is more money than I’ve ever spent on a camera, and offers nothing extra I need. I’m not the target market, though I’m possibly close to it.
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When did you retire Phil?
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
When did you retire Phil?
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I was always a ‘weekend warrior’ but recent changes to our personal life have led to me not renewing the web hosting. It’s worthy of its own thread, I’m not 100% sure what I do next (I haven’t done much photography for fun for 20 years).
 
Phil V said:
I was always a ‘weekend warrior’ but recent changes to our personal life have led to me not renewing the web hosting. It’s worthy of its own thread, I’m not 100% sure what I do next (I haven’t done much photography for fun for 20 years).
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Do you enjoy photography for fun Phil?

I used to work in computers and I got sick of the sight of them and I do wonder if pro photographers feel the same. I can imagine some never wanting to pick up a camera again once they retire.
 
Just on spamming...

I don't see Sony talk in this thread as spamming as long as it's in the context of gauging the Canon system against the competition and like it or not Sony are the competition. Viewed in isolation anything may look good and comparative evaluation is a good thing. IMO.
 
Just on eye AF.

I have it with my Panasonic kit but have never bothered with it. My FF A7 doesn't have it but it does have face detect which again is something I never bothered with for years partly because I've mostly been using MF lenses but recently I've used it and found it to be an absolute revelation as it allows me to concentrate on the subject and the framing and not on positioning the focus point on the subjects eye/face allowing me to take pictures quicker and get a more naturally posed result. The only way I could have done this in the past would be by getting my subject to freeze or zone focusing which would get me a quick natural shot but maybe would not stand up to close pixel peeping and certainly wouldn't be effective at 85mm and f1.8.

I can only imagine that eye detect is even better and I do think that this feature is indeed a real step forward... when it works quickly and reliably.
 
woof woof said:
Do you enjoy photography for fun Phil?

I used to work in computers and I got sick of the sight of them and I do wonder if pro photographers feel the same. I can imagine some never wanting to pick up a camera again once they retire.
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I do enjoy photography, but like most of us, I shoot for a purpose, and my purpose has mostly been capturing other people’s happy occasions. I like people more than I like photography.

I have a few irregular gigs that I’ll continue to shoot, I have a new granddaughter who I’ve pledged to document the first year of, I’ll be off to Rally GB next week, and as we’re getting older we’re travelling more, so I’m trying to get my head round the middle ground between holiday snaps and ‘travel photography’. So far failing miserably, so there’s more to do.

And I probably will go back to shooting professionally, but for now I’m trying to do a bit towards building up a comfortable pension, so I can afford to retire and play about as much as I want. It’s just a slight change of priorities rather than a sea change, it’ll affect my number of photos more than anything major in my life.

And I too used to work in IT, and used to ‘help’ people in my spare time, I gave that up when it started to consume my family time.
 
woof woof said:
I don't see Sony talk in this thread as spamming as long as it's in the context of gauging the Canon system against the competition and like it or not Sony are the competition. Viewed in isolation anything may look good and comparative evaluation is a good thing. IMO.
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I think it makes a lot of sense to compare them, we've just had a spate of products released using similar technology so it's only natural they should be compared, if you're buying one you could easily be buying any of them but I do not understand this conversation about market share, unless you own shares in the company what does it really matter?
 
simonbarker said:
I think it makes a lot of sense to compare them, we've just had a spate of products released using similar technology so it's only natural they should be compared, if you're buying one you could easily be buying any of them but I do not understand this conversation about market share, unless you own shares in the company what does it really matter?
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Fair point. I think the market share wars thing was just slipped into gradually... The Canon/Sony "x" isn't very good... Then how come they're selling lots of them?... Yes they are but Canon/Sony are selling more "x"...

Maybe people have got it out of their system now and will move on to other things but no doubt we'll be back here in a few pages time. Such is life and the internet.
 
simonbarker said:
I think it makes a lot of sense to compare them, we've just had a spate of products released using similar technology so it's only natural they should be compared, if you're buying one you could easily be buying any of them but I do not understand this conversation about market share, unless you own shares in the company what does it really matter?
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I believe the conversation about market share started when Canon was attacked (via comments) for not doing certain things with their EOS R or not having certain features vs Sony etc.
To some people market share matters, bragging rights etc......

The Sony A7 III is the best bang for buck full-frame mirrorless available, its the better option.......... oh but wait, Canon has a bigger market share so this proves they are better etc as more people clearly buy them. :)
 
Riz_Guru said:
I believe the conversation about market share started when Canon was attacked (via comments) for not doing certain things with their EOS R or not having certain features vs Sony etc.
To some people market share matters, bragging rights etc......

The Sony A7 III is the best bang for buck full-frame mirrorless available, its the better option.......... oh but wait, Canon has a bigger market share so this proves they are better etc as more people clearly buy them. :)
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Canon has much better colours,even Raymondo agrees :p:whistle:
 
Riz_Guru said:
I believe the conversation about market share started when Canon was attacked (via comments) for not doing certain things with their EOS R or not having certain features vs Sony etc.
To some people market share matters, bragging rights etc......

The Sony A7 III is the best bang for buck full-frame mirrorless available, its the better option.......... oh but wait, Canon has a bigger market share so this proves they are better etc as more people clearly buy them. :)
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That’s a massive misunderstanding, bordering on just plain dishonest. :eek:

As the only Canon owner who has discussed market share (and originally centred around someone dismissing the M cameras), I’ve also stated several times that Canon are way behind the latest Sony’s. That’s several times, but you and your mates would rather stick with the binary arguments; a nuanced reasonable discussion seems beyond you. :oops: :$

So the truth is, the only reason market share has been discussed was never in defence of the Canon R, and most of the posts re market share are just spreading of Sony’s propaganda. But don’t let little things like the truth get in the way of your binary argument.

:woot:Go SONY Go SONY Go SONY Go SONY Go SONY :clap:
 
TonyHall said:
Apologies for further polluting this thread with Sony, but...

I have no reason to dispute Sony's figures, but I always treat marketing statistics with a healthy skepticism unless from a reputable independent source.

View attachment 135294
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That's pretty cringe! [the image not your post, it doesn't show up in my quote]

I honestly don't get what market shares have to do with any of us here. Do you really care if your precious little camera is outselling any others? Unless you have personal shares in the company I see no reason to even look up this information. You buy whatever suits you at the time, I doubt anyone buys these days with the intent of holding on to the same gear for 10 years. Times are moving fast, let the mega rich companies worry about the numbers, you lot are spoiled for choice with them fighting it out.
 
Phil V said:
That’s a massive misunderstanding, bordering on just plain dishonest. :eek:

As the only Canon owner who has discussed market share (and originally centred around someone dismissing the M cameras), I’ve also stated several times that Canon are way behind the latest Sony’s. That’s several times, but you and your mates would rather stick with the binary arguments; a nuanced reasonable discussion seems beyond you. :oops: :$

So the truth is, the only reason market share has been discussed was never in defence of the Canon R, and most of the posts re market share are just spreading of Sony’s propaganda. But don’t let little things like the truth get in the way of your binary argument.

:woot:Go SONY Go SONY Go SONY Go SONY Go SONY :clap:
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:D :canon:
 
Ste_S said:
Sure, but we were talking sales figures. Canon M series aren't that great in comparison to the competition but allegedly out sell them.
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I second that. I have an M50 and just can't quite convince myself to switch fully to the Panasonic. So running two systems....
 
Cagey75 said:
That's pretty cringe! [the image not your post, it doesn't show up in my quote]

I honestly don't get what market shares have to do with any of us here. Do you really care if your precious little camera is outselling any others? Unless you have personal shares in the company I see no reason to even look up this information. You buy whatever suits you at the time, I doubt anyone buys these days with the intent of holding on to the same gear for 10 years. Times are moving fast, let the mega rich companies worry about the numbers, you lot are spoiled for choice with them fighting it out.
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Some people buy stuff purely because it's the most popular or has big market share m
 
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