Canon FF mirrorless...

[jonneymendoza]

D850 is pretty perfect to be fair.

5D mk4 doesn’t hold up well to the much older D810.

Not quite.

Some people say it's too bulky and heavy and lacks IBIS.

It is a damn good camera though but can be improved obviously

 

[dave_bass5]

O dear

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxp1h97Yx-Y


from 8:40 oonwards he tried the adapted 85mm EF lens and he clearly said it sometimes would not AF...

I knew it wont be like Native. It never will when adapting lenses. I have learned that from my own experience with sony and @twist tests too amongst other people here.

I dont think people should rely on adapting lenses

I have to disagree. Im using all my L and EF-S lenses on my M50 and none focus any different to on their native mounts (inc my old 80D). Most will hunt in low light on low contrast scenes on all my cameras.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I have to disagree. Im using all my L and EF-S lenses on my M50 and none focus any different to on their native mounts (inc my old 80D). Most will hunt in low light on low contrast scenes on all my cameras.

What EF glass do you have for your 5d4 currently and what reason would temp you to replace them for the RF version if all things being equal that the AF performance and reliablity is the exact same as native RF(assuming you went with the EOS-R camera)

My opinion is that if all things being equal, me personally i would not bother getting the RF lenses at all seeing as they dont seem to offer any size or weight benefit(from the 4 lenses shown so far). If others feel the same then the sale of RF lenses wont be that much for canon.

I imagine unique RF lenses not found on current DSLR mount would sell but the standard holy trinity zooms and primes that majority like, would probably be happy with sticking to there old DSLR ones instead of the RF versions

 

[simonbarker]

Are there any Canon users still posting in this thread?

It seems to me it's just become a bit of a EOS R bashing exercise to be honest which is on par with most new camera threads in here these days.

How do you suggest they prove their Canon purity to be permitted the honour of posting here? I own kit from most major brands, does that mean I'm allowed to post in every thread or does that make me a traitor to every brand?

 

[dave_bass5]

What EF glass do you have for your 5d4 currently and what reason would temp you to replace them for the RF version if all things being equal that the AF performance and reliablity is the exact same as native RF(assuming you went with the EOS-R camera)

My opinion is that if all things being equal, me personally i would not bother getting the RF lenses at all seeing as they dont seem to offer any size or weight benefit(from the 4 lenses shown so far). If others feel the same then the sale of RF lenses wont be that much for canon.

I imagine unique RF lenses not found on current DSLR mount would sell but the standard holy trinity zooms and primes that majority like, would probably be happy with sticking to there old DSLR ones instead of the RF versions

i currently only have 24-70 f/2.8, 24-70 f/4, 16-35 f/4, 135L, 70-300L. Plus the EF-S lenses, which i actually use a lot more on the M50, other than the 70-300L.

All have been working well on my M50. Im not now tempted to get the EOS-R, but im in no way tempted by any of the R lenses if i was. In fact its the lenses that have put me off. Although i say im not tempted i know i would end up buying them, and that would be a huge outlay and a big mistake.

 

[jonneymendoza]

i currently only have 24-70 f/2.8, 24-70 f/4, 16-35 f/4, 135L, 70-300L. Plus the EF-S lenses, which i actually use a lot more on the M50, other than the 70-300L.

All have been working well on my M50. Im not now tempted to get the EOS-R, but im in no way tempted by any of the R lenses if i was. In fact its the lenses that have put me off. Although i say im not tempted i know i would end up buying them, and that would be a huge outlay and a big mistake.

This is why i pretty much think that canon would gimp there adapter somehow because as i said, if your old lenses work perfectly fine like native then there is no incentive to buy future RF versions of your lenses.

Its bsuiness suicide really.

They need to tempt you to get there RF llenses somehow?

 

[woof woof]

How do you suggest they prove their Canon purity to be permitted the honour of posting here? I own kit from most major brands, does that mean I'm allowed to post in every thread or does that make me a traitor to every brand?

300D, cold wet miserable Whitby.


10D, little M.


20D, Gangsta, init. and he's not getting £10 to guard my car.


5D, reaching for the cherries.

 

[Gaz J]

D850 is pretty perfect to be fair.

5D mk4 doesn’t hold up well to the much older D810.

Depends on what you’re using to qualify that statement.

 

[snerkler]

Not quite.

Some people say it's too bulky and heavy and lacks IBIS.

It is a damn good camera though but can be improved obviously

You forgot to mention crappy liveview AF

 

[Gaz J]

You say the sony is not quite there yet but you could in theory say the same thing about current DSLR from both canikon.

THe 5d4 for example wasnt quite there yet for its video functionality and its buffer capacity/speed so basically no camera be in a a9 or d5 is perfect. They all have and will continue to have flaws.

I agree. Just have to buy what is arguable the best from each manufacturer. Shouldn’t cost too much!!

 

[Phil V]

I knew it wont be like Native. It never will when adapting lenses. I have learned that from my own experience with sony and @twist tests too amongst other people here.

And visited the M forum and decided everyone was lying when they said they regularly happily shoot with EF and EF-S lenses.

I haven’t seen Kai’s test, but there is no reason why a fully electronic mount can’t easily be adapted, it’s not much more complicated than an extension tube, and everyone agrees that 3rd party extension tubes (certainly on Canon) work as well as Canon ones.

This is another of your ‘pronouncements’ that you hold onto despite masses of evidence to the contrary.

 

[Riz_Guru]

they said they regularly happily shoot with EF and EF-S lenses.

I haven’t seen Kai’s test, but there is no reason why a fully electronic mount can’t easily be adapted, it’s not much more complicated than an extension tube.

Fair comment but do those EF and EF-S lenses work like they do on their native Canon DSLR's? It's fine saying that people are happy to shoot with EF and EF-S lenses on the M, however that is very different from them actually performing like to do on their native DSLR mounts.
I think that if Canon did decide to allow their DSLR lenses perform like the do on the DSLR's using the R adapter, it would be financial suicide.

 

[Cagey75]

In Kai's video he also states "It is pretty damn quick" when the adapter was working for the 85mm, it just happened to miss focus a few times on him. He also does some video using the EF-S 10-18 and it works flawlessly.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I'd get the r and just use DSLR lenses if it worked like native.who wouldn't?

 

[Riz_Guru]

I'd get the r and just use DSLR lenses if it worked like native.who wouldn't?

Maybe it will, maybe it won't.. I just think Canon won't be silly enough to allow full functionality of their older lenses on the R mount. If they did, it would be suicide like I said.

 

[snerkler]

I'd get the r and just use DSLR lenses if it worked like native.who wouldn't?

People who already have a DSLR and don't have £2k to chuck at a new body, or those that want more than 3-5fps. Then there's those that want two card slots, and those who may not like the ergonomics of the R

 

[Phil V]

Fair comment but do those EF and EF-S lenses work like they do on their native Canon DSLR's? It's fine saying that people are happy to shoot with EF and EF-S lenses on the M, however that is very different from them actually performing like to do on their native DSLR mounts.
I think that if Canon did decide to allow their DSLR lenses perform like the do on the DSLR's using the R adapter, it would be financial suicide.

For f***s Sake!!!

YES

And has been stated many many many f*****g times.

It doesn’t stop someone asking every month (how many times have you asked now) and Jonny telling us all that they can’t possibly work because that makes no sense to Canon.

Look through the pictures in the M thread, you’ll find the prolific image posters shoot almost exclusively EF glass.

My 2 most used lenses are the 22 and my 85 1.8, there’s no difference in behaviour between the 2, .

Will it stop you asking again shortly? I very much doubt it.

 

[Riz_Guru]

For f***s Sake!!!

YES

And has been stated many many many f*****g times.

It doesn’t stop someone asking every month (how many times have you asked now) and Jonny telling us all that they can’t possibly work because that makes no sense to Canon.

Look through the pictures in the M thread, you’ll find the prolific image posters shoot almost exclusively EF glass.

My 2 most used lenses are the 22 and my 85 1.8, there’s no difference in behaviour between the 2, .

Will it stop you asking again shortly? I very much doubt it.

Fair enough regarding the EF glass on M mount, I didn't know so it was only an assumption, seems a good move to keep customers happy but probably wrong move from a financial point of view.
Maybe that would explain why Canon have only released about 9 or so lenses for the M system since its release in 2012. (8 years).

The Canon R mount is completely new, so surely Canon want to sell as many R lenses as possible, surely they will cripple the ability of older adapted lenses in some aspects.

Canon could have just kept their existing mount and lens line-up and just make their existing bodies mirrorless.

 

[MatBin]

For f***s Sake!!!

YES

And has been stated many many many f*****g times.

It doesn’t stop someone asking every month (how many times have you asked now) and Jonny telling us all that they can’t possibly work because that makes no sense to Canon.

Look through the pictures in the M thread, you’ll find the prolific image posters shoot almost exclusively EF glass.

My 2 most used lenses are the 22 and my 85 1.8, there’s no difference in behaviour between the 2, .

Will it stop you asking again shortly? I very much doubt it.

Given the blurb re mirrorless the R body being able to us EF and EF-S lenses seamlessly with 3 adapters I'll take Canon's word for it that they WILL work and maybe everyone else should until proven otherwise?
My guess is Canon will hope and have based their investment on
1) That SLR users may switch over to R series and use their existing lenses until they break/fail get nicked or whatever
2) New user will love the look/feel/quality of the R series and will either buy the R lenses or if they have a specific need an EF/EF-S and adapter

As usual (in general) Canon have made their new stuff backwards compatible.

 

[Riz_Guru]

Look at those lenses

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/ca...en-the-canon-eos-r-nikon-z-and-sony-a-system/

 

[MatBin]

Fair enough regarding the EF glass on M mount, I didn't know so it was only an assumption, seems a good move to keep customers happy but probably wrong move from a financial point of view.
Maybe that would explain why Canon have only released about 9 or so lenses for the M system since its release in 2012. (8 years).

The Canon R mount is completely new, so surely Canon want to sell as many R lenses as possible, surely they will cripple the ability of older adapted lenses in some aspects.

Canon could have just kept their existing mount and lens line-up and just make their existing bodies mirrorless.

If you bother to read the Canon blurb you will read there are very good reasons for the new mount, not least the increased comms between body and lens to improve AF (from what I have read anyway).

 

[Riz_Guru]

If you bother to read the Canon blurb you will read there are very good reasons for the new mount, not least the increased comms between body and lens to improve AF (from what I have read anyway).

The main reason is £££££, Canon have pretty much fleshed out their existing EF mount lenses... what better way to start again
The same can be said for Sony and Nikon too.
The are in this business to make money.

I am interested to see what Canon and Nikon do for their Pro line mirrorless bodies....

 

[MatBin]

The main reason is £££££, Canon have pretty much fleshed out their existing EF mount lenses... what better way to start again
The same can be said for Sony and Nikon too.
The are in this business to make money.

Of course, the new R mount seems better than the EF/EF-s mount but as usual they havent just abandoned their existing users. I've had Canons for over 40 years and the main reason is continued support of prior investment.
And that means I keep buying Canon which is good for their bottom line.

 

[Riz_Guru]

Of course, the new R mount seems better than the EF/EF-s mount but as usual they havent just abandoned their existing users. I've had Canons for over 40 years and the main reason is continued support of prior investment.
And that means I keep buying Canon which is good for their bottom line.

Agreed, I'm not ruling out a move to either Nikon or Canon in the future but not with their first generation offerings.
I am liking the R L lenses

 

[Cagey75]

Simple firmware updates will fix any initial teething problems. Look at the third party Viltrox adapters, they're at what? their 5th FW update? Tonnes of people using those to run the Sigma 18-35 1.8 on their GH5

 

[woof woof]

Of course, the new R mount seems better than the EF/EF-s mount but as usual they havent just abandoned their existing users. I've had Canons for over 40 years and the main reason is continued support of prior investment.
And that means I keep buying Canon which is good for their bottom line.

If you've been using Canon for 40 years you'll remember when they went from FD to EF.

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Cagey75]

Funny ol' world, I'm using an FD lens today

 

[MatBin]

If you've been using Canon for 40 years you'll remember when they went from FD to EF.

Sorry, couldn't resist

There's always one isnt there

Oddly enough I still have a load of FD that I suppose I could use on a mirrorless body or two.

That's why I said "usually" rather than always, but I shall resist mentioning any other manufacturers who have made a dog's breakfast out of their lens/body upgrades and the overly complex matrix of what works with what

 

[woof woof]

There's always one isnt there

Oddly enough I still have a load of FD that I suppose I could use on a mirrorless body or two.

That's why I said "usually" rather than always, but I shall resist mentioning any other manufacturers who have made a dog's breakfast out of their lens/body upgrades and the overly complex matrix of what works with what

Well, you're the one claiming 40 years of loyalty based on Canon having your interests at heart.

I have 28, 35, 50 and 85mm fd's and a 3rd party fd mount 24mm and they work well enough on my mirrorless cameras. They'll work on any mirrorless to date, I think, but again sorry but this idea that Canon know your investment and value it is only one factor in their thinking and they'll do what's best for them not you. Sorry. They have a track record of moving on and leaving customers fuming when it suits them. As do other makers too of course.

 

[simonbarker]

In Kai's video he also states "It is pretty damn quick" when the adapter was working for the 85mm, it just happened to miss focus a few times on him. He also does some video using the EF-S 10-18 and it works flawlessly.

Which could mean anything reasonably fast. It's fun to speculate but it might be best that we don't read too much into someone's casual handling of an unreleased camera in a random setting.

 

[Cagey75]

Which could mean anything reasonably fast. It's fun to speculate but it might be best that we don't read too much into someone's casual handling of an unreleased camera in a random setting.

You realise this was just an alternate view to someone else's reading too much into someone's casual handling of it though, right?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Well, you're the one claiming 40 years of loyalty based on Canon having your interests at heart.

I have 28, 35, 50 and 85mm fd's and a 3rd party fd mount 24mm and they work well enough on my mirrorless cameras. They'll work on any mirrorless to date, I think, but again sorry but this idea that Canon know your investment and value it is only one factor in their thinking and they'll do what's best for them not you. Sorry. They have a track record of moving on and leaving customers fuming when it suits them. As do other makers too of course.

Yes and why support older gen for long? They want you to buy the latest and greatest else they will make a loss on there new stuff.

In regards to the M line. Have they replaced/created most of there previous apsc dslr lenses to native M mount?

In regards to someone here saying they could be tempted by rf lenses for its look and feel. Do you think that's enough to drop say the 50mm L mk2 on dslr for the rf on those terms alone?

For me it would take more then a feel of a lens and the looks having to be draw dropping for me to consider ditching my ef lenses for rf..

 

[MatBin]

Well, you're the one claiming 40 years of loyalty based on Canon having your interests at heart.

I have 28, 35, 50 and 85mm fd's and a 3rd party fd mount 24mm and they work well enough on my mirrorless cameras. They'll work on any mirrorless to date, I think, but again sorry but this idea that Canon know your investment and value it is only one factor in their thinking and they'll do what's best for them not you. Sorry. They have a track record of moving on and leaving customers fuming when it suits them. As do other makers too of course.

I dont think I agree there, they dropped FD ages ago, which did cause a bit of a stir, agreed, but since then I think they have been very good at moving forward whilst still supporting legacy stuff.
Where's the "track record" of dropping stuff and leaving customers fuming, if you mean EF-S then I'd agree anyone with a big investment in EF lenses could have felt a bit miffed they could take advantage of that mount with legacy lenses but there were plenty of crop EF mount bodies available before EF-S.
In addition it's very easy to work out what works with what in regards to lens mounts, other manufacturers have made a right pig's ear of lens compatability (IMO).

 

[Steve B]

Fair enough regarding the EF glass on M mount, I didn't know so it was only an assumption, seems a good move to keep customers happy but probably wrong move from a financial point of view.

LOL, thats the problem with making assumptions, often they will be wrong . To further your education the EF/EFS to EFM adaptor is nothing more than a spacer with electrical contacts running through it, no fancy software or anything, just a spacer.

Maybe that would explain why Canon have only released about 9 or so lenses for the M system since its release in 2012. (8 years).

Wow, has the penny finally dropped . Yes all but a few very early EF mount lenses work natively on the EOS-M cameras with the spacer/adaptor. Some of the early lenses dont play well with the DPAF focussing system wether that is on a DSLR or Mirrorless. Oh and as well as making assumptions, you cant count either, 2012 was only 6 years ago

The Canon R mount is completely new, so surely Canon want to sell as many R lenses as possible, surely they will cripple the ability of older adapted lenses in some aspects.

Far from it, Canon have even included an adaptor with the additional control ring that is on the R mount lenses so that the EF/EFS lenses will have the same functionality.

Canon could have just kept their existing mount and lens line-up and just make their existing bodies mirrorless.

They could have kept the same mount, but wanted to include extra functions in the lenses and to open new possibilities in lens design, so went for a new mount with additional contacts.

Hope this helps you understand a bit more about the new introductions.

 

[woof woof]

I dont think I agree there, they dropped FD ages ago, which did cause a bit of a stir, agreed, but since then I think they have been very good at moving forward whilst still supporting legacy stuff.
Where's the "track record" of dropping stuff and leaving customers fuming, if you mean EF-S then I'd agree anyone with a big investment in EF lenses could have felt a bit miffed they could take advantage of that mount with legacy lenses but there were plenty of crop EF mount bodies available before EF-S.
In addition it's very easy to work out what works with what in regards to lens mounts, other manufacturers have made a right pig's ear of lens compatability (IMO).

I think continuing with this will get us nowhere but I will point out again that the fd to ef change was within your 40 years of continued support of prior investment. Canon moved on from fd to eos because they needed to and they've stuck with eos because it's been up to the task until now because cameras have remained largely unchained until now as DSLR's are arguably just SLR's with the film replaced with a sensor.

On the view that the new camera may be behind the SOTA but that's ok because all we want is a mirrorless chassis to use eos lenses on - there are enough reports of problems now to make me want to wait until the picture becomes much clearer.

I struck lucky with my Sony A7 as there haven't been any early adopter problems but looking at what's being said about both the Canon and Nikon mirrorless systems I can tell you now that if I was in the market for new kit I wouldn't be ordering now, I'd wait for more independent reports from people with good reputations and for any issues to be ironed out.

 

[Deleted member 49428]

Are there any Canon users still posting in this thread?

It seems to me it's just become a bit of a EOS R bashing exercise to be honest which is on par with most new camera threads in here these days.

But paying back 5 years of Sony bashing takes time you know

 

[Mike.P]

But paying back 5 years of Sony bashing takes time you know

Pah that's nothing, as a long time mainly Pentax user I was getting a bashing from Sony users 5 years ago.

 

[Riz_Guru]

LOL, thats the problem with making assumptions, often they will be wrong . To further your education the EF/EFS to EFM adaptor is nothing more than a spacer with electrical contacts running through it, no fancy software or anything, just a spacer.



Wow, has the penny finally dropped . Yes all but a few very early EF mount lenses work natively on the EOS-M cameras with the spacer/adaptor. Some of the early lenses dont play well with the DPAF focussing system wether that is on a DSLR or Mirrorless. Oh and as well as making assumptions, you cant count either, 2012 was only 6 years ago



Far from it, Canon have even included an adaptor with the additional control ring that is on the R mount lenses so that the EF/EFS lenses will have the same functionality.



They could have kept the same mount, but wanted to include extra functions in the lenses and to open new possibilities in lens design, so went for a new mount with additional contacts.

Hope this helps you understand a bit more about the new introductions.

It’s all good to know however the new Canon R is still behind the entry level Sony A7 III.
I got to admit, the R L lenses look nice though.

 

[simonbarker]

You realise this was just an alternate view to someone else's reading too much into someone's casual handling of it though, right?

Yup, it's just as relevant for them too.

 

[Cagey75]

Yup, it's just as relevant for them too.

I know not to read too much into it, that was the point. He may have gotten a dud pre-production adapter, the lens might be a bit duffed - it was just there wrapped in plastic on a shelf for anyone to use. God knows how many people chucked it about beforehand at these events. Thing is, when it did work, he was impressed, very much so. All they need to do is get them to work 100% of the time or close to.