Canon EOS M Series Cameras

Well there has been quite a few posts since I last looked.

It's simple imo

Sony didn't have a dslr market they were at risk of cannibalising, neither did fuji and panasonic. All there r+d could go straight to the mirrorless, both bodies and lenses. No manufacturer is perfect, look at the menus of olympus and sony, need reworking big time. Canon could do better to satisfy people out there that want more lenses to choose from. It will be interesting to see which direction canon go. Only time will tell. Only 6 months to photokina!

"fanboy" was mentioned, hate this term. There's only people in this thread who appreciate a camera that works well for them. That's the way I see it.

Anyway if anyone hasn't seen it

View: https://youtu.be/Mxx51eVz9fY
 
According to this Canon already have a full frame mirrorless camera out in the field, being tested by selected pro's
 
michael23 said:
Well there has been quite a few posts since I last looked.

It's simple imo

Sony didn't have a dslr market they were at risk of cannibalising, neither did fuji and panasonic. All there r+d could go straight to the mirrorless, both bodies and lenses. No manufacturer is perfect, look at the menus of olympus and sony, need reworking big time. Canon could do better to satisfy people out there that want more lenses to choose from. It will be interesting to see which direction canon go. Only time will tell. Only 6 months to photokina!

"fanboy" was mentioned, hate this term. There's only people in this thread who appreciate a camera that works well for them. That's the way I see it.

Anyway if anyone hasn't seen it

View: https://youtu.be/Mxx51eVz9fY
Click to expand...

Useful video.
 
Swissy said:
According to this Canon already have a full frame mirrorless camera out in the field, being tested by selected pro's
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I saw that as well. Im not personally interested in this, as i know it wont be cheap, but it looks promising.

Seems to go against what those in the know will never stop telling us. According to them Cannon don’t care about mirrorless or their customers.
 
dave_bass5 said:
I saw that as well. Im not personally interested in this, as i know it wont be cheap, but it looks promising.

Seems to go against what those in the know will never stop telling us. According to them Cannon don’t care about mirrorless or their customers.
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I asked here and said would you lot switch to a mirror less version of a 5d with brand mount? canon may be afraid of alienating DSLR users but it has to be done and it's just a matter of when.not if
 
jonneymendoza said:
I asked here and said would you lot switch to a mirror less version of a 5d with brand mount? canon may be afraid of alienating DSLR users but it has to be done and it's just a matter of when.not if
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Ive always thought that, but Its just something i see on all the camera forums.

I wouldn't be adversed to changing to a FF mirrorless body, but i know it wont be cheap. My biggest issue though would be the (probably) really poor batter life compared to the much larger DSLR batteries. This is the biggest reason i went back to my old 5D3 rather than progressing up the Sony ladder when i had my A6000. I almost gave up on DSLR but i just found the smaller cameras too fiddly to use, on the whole. Now i just see mirrorless as a travel format for now, and for that i dont want to spend a fortune.
 
jonneymendoza said:
I asked here and said would you lot switch to a mirror less version of a 5d with brand mount? canon may be afraid of alienating DSLR users but it has to be done and it's just a matter of when.not if
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Have ho agree that Canon will go to a Full Frame mirrorless system. It’s the when which is beyond the horizon from my perspective, the success or perceived failure of the crop M system may drive or kill development as well as margins/price
 
Raymond Lin said:
I never really wanted a smaller canon, I just wanted the tech of the Sony in Canon.
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I thought that Sony provided Canon with Sensors so the process had started?
 
dave_bass5 said:
I wouldn't be adversed to changing to a FF mirrorless body, but i know it wont be cheap. My biggest issue though would be the (probably) really poor batter life compared to the much larger DSLR batteries.
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It's entirely reasonable to assume they'd make the mirrorless 5D and 1D equivalents with the same size bodies and batteries, they have enough product lines to make very different sizes after all.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
I thought that Sony provided Canon with Sensors so the process had started?
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....I thought that Canon had recently started producing their own sensors. Unfortunately I don't remember where I heard that but think I read it in an interview with Canon staff.
 
simonbarker said:
It's entirely reasonable to assume they'd make the mirrorless 5D and 1D equivalents with the same size bodies and batteries, they have enough product lines to make very different sizes after all.
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i do like smaller bodies with the "optional" to make it bigger with a grip. So if the next 5d mirrorless is the same size as a canon 100d, id be happy
 
I’m with Simon barker on this ,nowhere is it written that a FF mirrorless body has to be small or lightweight ,we already have that with the M series ,so a larger bodied DSLM should be a easy work around ,larger batteries for longer life ,touch screen ,and a improved EVF ,all there doing is taking out the mirror system and replacing it same as Sony tried to do years ago ,but now with vastly improved technology and a ready made range of lenses and improved dual pixel sensors . It’s a no brainer got to happen . A camera made to take quality photos ,leaving the m series as a pull into the system . .
Once we had film ,everyone said digital was a gimmick my first digital had no rear screen and a half a megapixel sensor but it was a starter into the system ,change will happen and fast once it takes hold . Camera makers know they have to be three steps ahead of mobile phones or die a slow death
 
jonneymendoza said:
I asked here and said would you lot switch to a mirror less version of a 5d with brand mount? canon may be afraid of alienating DSLR users but it has to be done and it's just a matter of when.not if
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Complete nonsense, the kind of [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] posted by people who have devised an ‘opinion’ and try to apply it even when it no longer makes sense.

Tell me why would Canon care whether they’re selling 100 mirrorless camera’s or 100 DSLR’s?

And why would a Canon DSLR owner care if Canon bring out a pro Mirrorless, they’ll either stick with what they have or move over, for a myriad of reasons, but only an idiot would feel ‘alienated’.

Of all the major camera companies, Canon have been the most willing to take a bold decision, that’s not likely to change.
 
Phil V said:
Tell me why would Canon care whether they’re selling 100 mirrorless camera’s or 100 DSLR’s?

Of all the major camera companies, Canon have been the most willing to take a bold decision, that’s not likely to change.
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Because there is more money in mirrorless and it is the technology which is moving forwards as apposed to DSLR technology which has been around for decades.
Canon’s move to professional mirrorless followed by Nikon will be a big turning point, DSLR’s will then decline and eventually die to be replaced by mirrorless versions. Sony started the long path to killing off DSLR technology and it’ll be either them, Canon or Nikon who completely kill it off.
DSLR will go the same way film camera’s have gone.

What bold decision have Canon exactly made?
 
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Riz_Guru said:
Because there is more money in mirrorless and it is the technology which is moving forward as apposed to DSLR technology which has been around for decades.
Canon’s move to professional mirrorless followed by Nikon will be a big turning point, DSLR will then decline and eventually die to be replaced by mirrorless versions.
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that’s not an answer to why Canon users would feel alienated or indeed why Canon ‘don’t care’ about mirrorless which is what the small of mind keep saying.
In fact it looks like the opposite to me.
We seem to agree.
Riz_Guru said:
What bold decision have Canon exactly made?
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In the mid 80’s when AF emerged, everyone else bodged a solution that meant their legacy lenses were ‘compatible’.
Canon went back to the drawing board and invented a bespoke electronic lens mount. Which beat the competition for years.
Bizarrely, many Nikon users slag Canon off for this, suggesting Canon lacks the backward compatibility, then under their breath point new users towards the complicated table of Nikon lenses that may or may not actually work on a camera that they’ll ‘fit’.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Because there is more money in mirrorless and it is the technology which is moving forwards as apposed to DSLR technology which has been around for decades.
Canon’s move to professional mirrorless followed by Nikon will be a big turning point, DSLR’s will then decline and eventually die to be replaced by mirrorless versions. Sony started the long path to killing off DSLR technology and it’ll be either them, Canon or Nikon who completely kill it off.
DSLR will go the same way film camera’s have gone.

What bold decision have Canon exactly made?
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I think one thing that could be attractive for manufacturers is that CSC's are I'd guess cheaper to make... I've never been involved with camera manufacture but have been involved in component and product manufacture and it looks to me that a CSC should be easier and cheaper to make and make more consistently than the more mechanical and perhaps more tolerance affected DSLR which I'd imagine is more labour and time intensive to assemble.

I think I remember seeing a breakdown of the Sony A7 when it first came out and I think a point of surprise was that it was made up of fewer modules. If that's true and can be true of other mirrorless systems then it has to make life easier and cheaper for the manufacturer to assemble them.

If I was given the choice of setting up an assembly line for a DSLR or a CSC I think I'd do the CSC every time :D
 
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Phil V said:
that’s not an answer to why Canon users would feel alienated or indeed why Canon ‘don’t care’ about mirrorless which is what the small of mind keep saying.
In fact it looks like the opposite to me.
We seem to agree.

In the mid 80’s when AF emerged, everyone else bodged a solution that meant their legacy lenses were ‘compatible’.
Canon went back to the drawing board and invented a bespoke electronic lens mount. Which beat the competition for years.
Bizarrely, many Nikon users slag Canon off for this, suggesting Canon lacks the backward compatibility, then under their breath point new users towards the complicated table of Nikon lenses that may or may not actually work on a camera that they’ll ‘fit’.
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In the mid 80’s I was a toddler so missed this :)
However I hope both and Canon & Nikon really push out something good, completion is great.
Although I’m pro-Sony I’d like to see Nikon & Canon go head to head with Sony.

The Canon M series seems more like a side project for Canon which has the potential to become big.

Canon EOS 1DM :D
 
Riz_Guru said:
Because there is more money in mirrorless and it is the technology which is moving forwards as apposed to DSLR technology which has been around for decades.
Canon’s move to professional mirrorless followed by Nikon will be a big turning point, DSLR’s will then decline and eventually die to be replaced by mirrorless versions. Sony started the long path to killing off DSLR technology and it’ll be either them, Canon or Nikon who completely kill it off.
DSLR will go the same way film camera’s have gone.

What bold decision have Canon exactly made?
Click to expand...


Hmmm I think this will take a while. I have just bought back into DSLR for the following reasons:

Price wise, more for your money
Size and wise, not too much difference with FF
Better AF for my budget
Better battery all round
Lens selection and third party lenses
New mirrorless FF systems that come out will be very expensive for a considerable amount of time, value of DSLR and lenses will take a while to drop. If in the next year or two I start to see a rapid decline in the value of my stuff I may sell up and move to mirrorless. I don't think it will happen like that though.
 
Tom Green said:
Hmmm I think this will take a while. I have just bought back into DSLR for the following reasons:

Price wise, more for your money
Size and wise, not too much difference with FF
Better AF for my budget
Better battery all round
Lens selection and third party lenses
New mirrorless FF systems that come out will be very expensive for a considerable amount of time, value of DSLR and lenses will take a while to drop. If in the next year or two I start to see a rapid decline in the value of my stuff I may sell up and move to mirrorless. I don't think it will happen like that though.
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Not if both Canon and Nikon bring out mid-level and high-level mirrorless systems with a new lens mount.
Many Nikon & Canon users have been waiting and crying out for these mirrorless bodies, when that comes many could move over and this would flood the market with older DSLR bodies and lenses.

It’s in both Nikon & Canon’s interests to move over as many people as possible from DSLR to mirrorless. Better gains for them.
Expect competitive prices and trade bonuses.

This is just a theory though ;)
 
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@Riz_Guru theres not even consistent rumours that Nikon are taking mirrorless seriously. Their attempt was even a joke compared to the original Canon M

For those of us who accept that mirrorless is the future, this could leave Nikon as niche manufacturers which would be a real shame. They might end up like Olympus, being bought for the name by a larger company who wants a slice of the market.
 
Tom Green said:
Hmmm I think this will take a while. I have just bought back into DSLR for the following reasons:

Price wise, more for your money
Size and wise, not too much difference with FF
Better AF for my budget
Better battery all round
Lens selection and third party lenses
New mirrorless FF systems that come out will be very expensive for a considerable amount of time, value of DSLR and lenses will take a while to drop. If in the next year or two I start to see a rapid decline in the value of my stuff I may sell up and move to mirrorless. I don't think it will happen like that though.
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That's if you Go for Nikon as I believe canon are similar priced to a Sony with less features (body wise)

Don't forget you can adapt lenses on the Sony.if your not shooting fast action Pro work. Adapted lenses will work fine for various cases.

@Phil

Canon already indicate they are afraid of alienating there users base by purposely gimping there lower end camera.just look at there M5. Has 4k now but massive crop on top of a crop sensor and no dpaf.canon admitted it can be done but diddnt want to affect sales of there other mirrorless camera.

If they release a 5d mirrorless.who would buy the dlsr version of it?
 
Riz_Guru said:
Not if both Canon and Nikon bring out mid-level and high-level mirrorless systems with a new lens mount.
Many Nikon & Canon users have been waiting and crying out for these mirrorless bodies, when that comes many could move over and this would flood the market with older DSLR bodies and lenses.

It’s in both Nikon & Canon’s interests to move over as many people as possible from DSLR to mirrorless. Better gains for them.
Expect competitive prices and trade bonuses.

This is just a theory though ;)
Click to expand...

It’s ok, I understand your need to justify spending thousands and thousands on mirrorless ;)
 
Phil V said:
@Riz_Guru theres not even consistent rumours that Nikon are taking mirrorless seriously. Their attempt was even a joke compared to the original Canon M

For those of us who accept that mirrorless is the future, this could leave Nikon as niche manufacturers which would be a real shame. They might end up like Olympus, being bought for the name by a larger company who wants a slice of the market.
Click to expand...

I hope Nikon are secretly working on mirrorless.

I think both Nikon & Canon should start by chopping out the mirror part of their DSLR’s and replace with EVF and features from current mirrorless systems.
It doesn’t have to be ground breaking.... keep everything else the same..... DSLR body, buttons, build, GUI, Mount, AF etc.
 
Tom Green said:
It’s ok, I understand your need to justify spending thousands and thousands on mirrorless ;)
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DSLR’s will eventually die, mark my words.... it’s just a question of when and how.
As an early adopter of mirrorless technology I can’t deny thats it’s not been an expensive outlay however the advantages mirrorless offers justifies it for most people who have moved over already.
Canon & Nikon will go mirrorless and that will just re-enforce what I’ve been saying for a long time.

DSLR’s aren’t the future, there will be some who hold onto DSLR tech for life, but they will become the minority just like DSLR vs Film camera’s.

:)
 
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jonneymendoza said:
..

Canon already indicate they are afraid of alienating there users base by purposely gimping there lower end camera.just look at there M5. Has 4k now but massive crop on top of a crop sensor and no dpaf.canon admitted it can be done but diddnt want to affect sales of there other mirrorless camera.
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Utter nonsense constantly spouted by people who haven’t the common sense to understand market segmentation.

Just because Canon can produce a 1d doesn’t mean they should pack all those features into a 1300d, canon understand that some people want a £200 camera and some a £5000 camera. Their job is to produce cameras that they believe will appeal to those markets. Only a complete moron doesn’t understand that.
But unbelievably photography forums appear to be inhabited by plenty of these morons. Canon are the market leaders because they’re clearly a lot smarter than the forum idiots who constantly bang on about what Canon are doing ‘wrong’.

Don’t fall for the nonsense, you are smarter than that.

jonneymendoza said:
..

If they release a 5d mirrorless.who would buy the dlsr version of it?
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The people who want a DSLR?

And if no one wants a DSLR they’ll stop making them. Again, Canon will still be selling them a camera, it doesn’t matter to them whether it has a mirror (in fact it might even make life easier for them)

You might want to do some research into Lean, Agile modern customer focussed business models, then the stats for camera sales, then have a good think about how Canon run their business and how far from smart all those forum gobs***es really are.

Really it’s beyond silly.
 
Mike.P said:
Ruddy hell, I go away for an hour and come back to loads of posts.

Thought I had gone to the Sony thread for a minute but then realised I couldn't have because it's a lot more sensible :D
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we are sending our less sensible people here so they can help you guys out and keep Sony thread more in line :D
 
Mike.P said:
Ruddy hell, I go away for an hour and come back to loads of posts.

Thought I had gone to the Sony thread for a minute but then realised I couldn't have because it's a lot more sensible :D
Click to expand...

<< Sony owner lol ;)
We thought we’d pop in :D
 
Phil V said:
Utter nonsense constantly spouted by people who haven’t the common sense to understand market segmentation.

Just because Canon can produce a 1d doesn’t mean they should pack all those features into a 1300d, canon understand that some people want a £200 camera and some a £5000 camera. Their job is to produce cameras that they believe will appeal to those markets. Only a complete moron doesn’t understand that.
But unbelievably photography forums appear to be inhabited by plenty of these morons. Canon are the market leaders because they’re clearly a lot smarter than the forum idiots who constantly bang on about what Canon are doing ‘wrong’.

Don’t fall for the nonsense, you are smarter than that.



The people who want a DSLR?

And if no one wants a DSLR they’ll stop making them. Again, Canon will still be selling them a camera, it doesn’t matter to them whether it has a mirror (in fact it might even make life easier for them)

You might want to do some research into Lean, Agile modern customer focussed business models, then the stats for camera sales, then have a good think about how Canon run their business and how far from smart all those forum gobs***es really are.

Really it’s beyond silly.
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Phil, your capacity to deliberately misinterpret and misrepresent what others post would continue to astound me if I hadn't seen you do it many many times.
 
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woof woof said:
Phil, your capacity to deliberately misinterpret and misrepresent what others post would continue to astound me if I hadn't seen you do it many many times.
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What did I misrepresent?
I answered the daft points with facts.:)
Your capacity to be offended on behalf of others is improving exponentially.;)
 
Tom Green said:
Hmmm I think this will take a while. I have just bought back into DSLR for the following reasons:

Price wise, more for your money
Size and wise, not too much difference with FF
Better AF for my budget
Better battery all round
Lens selection and third party lenses
New mirrorless FF systems that come out will be very expensive for a considerable amount of time, value of DSLR and lenses will take a while to drop. If in the next year or two I start to see a rapid decline in the value of my stuff I may sell up and move to mirrorless. I don't think it will happen like that though.
Click to expand...

It could be said (again) we live in changing times.

At any given point, either through technical innovation or temporal fads, we have opportunities to evolve or stick with that which we are comfortable with.

Things change and sometimes pivot back yo the same point. It happened with vinyl through 8 track, cassette, CD, super CD, Mini Disc, then back to vinyl..... and so on.

With photography the technology stayed roughly the same till Digital arrived but the basics were light hits chemical based sensitive plate/film and other chemicals are used to create an image as a negative which was the projected on to chemically treated paper and then put into more chemicals to create the finished article.... phew

Yep that is resurfacing and the retro becomes real again...

Technically on the hardware front huge changes have bought photography into the cutting edge in image capture and the means to transmit and display images.

All great till you look st the design of digital cameras. In the main they still look and feel as they did back to the early rangefinders right through to the SLRs on their release. I adore the retro look and feel of my EOS M6!

The fact is that the technology has moved on and the ‘SLR’ style and ‘nuts and bolts’ mechanical elements begin to look redundant in a modern piece of electronics. It is also both an anachronism and a point of potential failure.

I like the balance of my SLR/DSLR kit, they feel sturdy and practical but yes I have had mirror box failures in both film and digital kit.

Canon’s approch with the M series offers a bit of hope and they are not alone in terms of styling from the other brands but, realistically, do we truly need a mechanical box or is it the ‘pro’ look and feel that adds to the attraction? “My lens is bigger than your lens”!

I like the M5 style but more than that, it is feature rich in a more compact package and with a Sigma 150-60 on it I can hold my head high in the men’s room.

The full frame DSLR size and shape can stay iconic and balanced but rip out the mirror box and build in more capabilities that are beneficial not bells and whistle features.
 
Riz_Guru said:
DSLR’s will eventually die, mark my words.... it’s just a question of when and how.
As an early adopter of mirrorless technology I can’t deny thats it’s not been an expensive outlay however the advantages mirrorless offers justifies it for most people who have moved over already.
Canon & Nikon will go mirrorless and that will just re-enforce what I’ve been saying for a long time.

DSLR’s aren’t the future, there will be some who hold onto DSLR tech for life, but they will become the minority just like DSLR vs Film camera’s.

:)
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I agree Riz, key word there though 'eventually'. I don't think that will be within the next year, 2 or 3 years. I think a lot of it will swing on whether canon and nikon release new mounts and new lenses. If they do, I think the transition to mirrorless will take a lot longer. If they don't, then its just a case of swapping out the body, so I think that will be a fairly quick change for people that have the cash and the requirements for mirrorless.

I think you are also missing the fact that a lot of people and amateurs that own for example the D750 won't have the money to buy the first FF mirrorless cameras that canon and nikon bring out. I also think these cameras will have to prove themselves before a lot of pros will make the switch, some may decide that the first generation of them aren't good enough and then stay with their DSLR for a while. Again, this is all speculation.

In my case, I have tried the Sony A7 - naff ergonomics, expensive lenses, slow function and slow AF. I have tried the Fuji X-T2, didn't like how the images processed. I have tried the A7II- again AF not quick enough and still the expensive lenses. I guess my usage case is unique, trying to get into weddings I want FF, quick AF, affordable 2.8 zooms, dual card slots etc and for me, the only way to achieve this is DSLR at the moment.

I mean a D750 (new from some places) , Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 (used) , Sigma 70-200 2.8 (used) can be had for less than the price of the A7III body - that cannot be ignored IF budget is a concern.
 
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Tom Green said:
I think you are also missing the fact that a lot of people and amateurs that own for example the D750 won't have the money to buy the first FF mirrorless cameras that canon and nikon bring out. I also think these cameras will have to prove themselves before a lot of pros will make the switch, some may decide that the first generation of them aren't good enough and then stay with their DSLR for a while. Again, this is all speculation.
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I don't think those amateurs should switch from their D750's, they're certainly not going to see much improvement in image quality unless they're doing something very specific.

I don't agree with the pro use comment though, we appear to have mirrorless technology which provides directly comparable results so it's not the technology holding things back but more the implementation (ergonomics, cost etc).

Tom Green said:
I mean a D750 (new from some places) , Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 (used) , Sigma 70-200 2.8 (used) can be had for less than the price of the A7III body - that cannot be ignored IF budget is a concern.
Click to expand...

That's not a bad thing! We're all fortunate to have such good equipment available so cheaply and it is wiser to wait and see how the dust settles.
 
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