Canon EOS 6D Mk2 Owner's Thread

Mr Badger said:
Is anyone seeing a bit of a parallel here with the Mk1 6D? Lots of people referring to its alleged 'spec sheet' and 'lab-test review' shortcomings... but most people that actually bought a Mk1 6D and used it seem to agree that it consistently produced really nice-looking photographs, particularly in low light and high ISO conditions.

So perhaps we ought to wait until the 6D Mk II has established itself in the wild in reasonable numbers, listen to the people that have used it, and look at some 'real-life' type photos taken with it before we pass judgement? In the meantime I'll carry on using my Mk1 6D and enjoying the consistently good results it gives me. :)
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Some People will buy it because it has a canon badge and can't or refuse to switch systems
 
jonneymendoza said:
Some People will buy it because it has a canon badge and can't or refuse to switch systems
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And others will buy it because it does what they want out of a camera, and others because 'their mate has a Canon' or because the salesman said it's great, or they liked the advert, or because it rhymes with Susan...

You don't have a clue what drives people and the fact you want to slag them off for their choices in order to feel superior is a bit sad.
 
Phil V said:
And others will buy it because it does what they want out of a camera, and others because 'their mate has a Canon' or because the salesman said it's great, or they liked the advert, or because it rhymes with Susan...

You don't have a clue what drives people and the fact you want to slag them off for their choices in order to feel superior is a bit sad.
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You seem to be clued up on canon marketing strategies etc.
 
jonneymendoza said:
You seem to be clued up on canon marketing strategies etc.
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No I just know how massive companies work, how important user feedback is to them. And the idea that a market leader in a multi million dollar industry is sitting on it's laurels 'because it can' in such a fast moving market is plain daft.

We know that Canon are struggling against the competition in sensor performance (DR and noise), there have been some step changes but they're not keeping up, so they build on their strengths. The D750 is brilliant, but the touch screen and dual pixel AF on the Canon is beyond Nikons ability. Not because Nikon can't be bothered though ;)

If you think they had the ability to produce superior products but choose not to out of cockiness then you're very odd.

Do you ever go out to work with the thought that you can risk your business by simply not trying? The fact that I'm not Jeff Ascough doesn't stop me trying to produce 'the best I can' for my clients. I'll never better Mr A's work, all I can do is my best. It doesn't mean I'm not trying.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Some People will buy it because it has a canon badge and can't or refuse to switch systems
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People will buy it if it's right for them. There are plenty of other products with the Canon badge on it they could choose.
 
If we bought cameras by only sensor performance then we only need to consider 3 or 4 cameras.

If you want a crop buy a D500

If you want a landscape buy an A7RII

If you want a pro body buy a D5 or better still a 1DX MKII

Forget the rest they just don't cut it with their poor sensors.
 
Gaz J said:
If we bought cameras by only sensor performance then we only need to consider 3 or 4 cameras.

If you want a crop buy a D500

If you want a landscape buy an A7RII

If you want a pro body buy a D5 or better still a 1DX MKII

Forget the rest they just don't cut it with their poor sensors.
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Umm u forget to add all the a6000 series. The 80d. D810 5d4 etc
 
jonneymendoza said:
Umm u forget to add all the a6000 series. The 80d. D810 5d4 etc
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Why?
The point was that 'only the best sensor' for any particular class of camera.

No need to consider the 2nd 3rd or 4th best. No need to consider other features if only the sensor matters.
 
Phil V said:
Why?
The point was that 'only the best sensor' for any particular class of camera.

No need to consider the 2nd 3rd or 4th best. No need to consider other features if only the sensor matters.
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The point throughout this thread is that the 6d2 sensor is quite a bit behind current sensors on cameras release 3+ years ago. Nothing at all about how 6d2 can't keep up with an a7r2. Not even the A9 or 5d4 keeps up with an a7r2 but no one bat's an eye lid because the Dr is very good still and only a tad behind the a7r2 whilst it seems the 6d2 sensor has a bigger gap.


Another thing you forgot to reply to was when someone questioned how poorly laid the focus points are in the frame
.

Anyways the camera will sell well so let's end it as that
 
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jonneymendoza said:
The point throughout this thread is that the 6d2 sensor is quite a bit behind current sensors on cameras release 3+ years ago. Nothing at all about how 6d2 can't keep up with an a7r2. Not even the A9 or 5d4 keeps up with an a7r2 but no one bat's an eye lid because the Dr is very good still and only a tad behind the a7r2 whilst it seems the 6d2 sensor has a bigger gap.


Another thing you forgot to reply to was when someone questioned how poorly laid the focus points are in the frame
.

Anyways the camera will sell well so let's end it as that
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But the point of the post you responded to was quite specific.
 
Mr Badger said:
Is anyone seeing a bit of a parallel here with the Mk1 6D? Lots of people referring to its alleged 'spec sheet' and 'lab-test review' shortcomings... but most people that actually bought a Mk1 6D and used it seem to agree that it consistently produced really nice-looking photographs, particularly in low light and high ISO conditions.

So perhaps we ought to wait until the 6D Mk II has established itself in the wild in reasonable numbers, listen to the people that have used it, and look at some 'real-life' type photos taken with it before we pass judgement? In the meantime I'll carry on using my Mk1 6D and enjoying the consistently good results it gives me. :)
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Well said Sir! I struggle to believe there are 480 posts on a camera nobody has actually used. I often wonder how anybody ever took decent photos 10/20/30 + years ago. How much current technology can be improved is anybody's guess but there must be a limit until new technology creates a step change.
 
Archie747 said:
Well said Sir! I struggle to believe there are 480 posts on a camera nobody has actually used.
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Tis the internet age when we can waffle about anything till real users pop their heads up and tell us what they think is good or bad. I'm finding it an interesting thread anyway so far though. :)
Archie747 said:
How much current technology can be improved is anybody's guess but there must be a limit until new technology creates a step change.
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There will be a limit, until as you say a new technology takes a slight turn and makes a noticeable improvement with something ground breaking. Hopefully anyway. ;)

Canon have a bit of leeway though to catch up with what is possible now with a 26Mp FF sensor. ;) :whistle: :LOL:
 
Phil V said:
We know that Canon are struggling against the competition in sensor performance (DR and noise), there have been some step changes but they're not keeping up, so they build on their strengths. The D750 is brilliant, but the touch screen and dual pixel AF on the Canon is beyond Nikons ability. Not because Nikon can't be bothered though ;)

If you think they had the ability to produce superior products but choose not to out of cockiness then you're very odd.
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But the this is the point, since the 5div, 80d and 1dxii canon are not struggling at low ISO dynamic range sensor capabilities.

They chose, I believe as a marketing decision, to differentiate between 6dii and 5div in this respect.

It will probably pay off for them as discussed because the sort of people who had dynamic range on their wish list are a minority.

I would say though that I have read of a lot of people who had it all on their wish list within the niche of forums I frequent.

What is so annoying to most people though, wish list or not, is canon catching up technology wise on a pretty important front, then leaving it off a brand new release camera.

I can see @jonneymendoza point.
 
Craig_85 said:
But the this is the point, since the 5div, 80d and 1dxii canon are not struggling at low ISO dynamic range sensor capabilities.

They chose, I believe as a marketing decision, to differentiate between 6dii and 5div in this respect.

It will probably pay off for them as discussed because the sort of people who had dynamic range on their wish list are a minority.

I would say though that I have read of a lot of people who had it all on their wish list within the niche of forums I frequent.

What is so annoying to most people though, wish list or not, is canon catching up technology wise on a pretty important front, then leaving it off a brand new release camera.

I can see @jonneymendoza point.
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The 80d 5div and 1dxii don't 'struggle' but none of them really compete with the Sony sensors abilities. Even the best Canon sensors are still behind the curve.

Where there's a tiny negative score for DR at base ISO but at higher ISOs it becomes a positive...

Some people choose to summarise that as failing.

The internet is brilliant, people can be convinced that running the economy is exactly the same as balancing the household budget and that a market leader isn't trying to make the best products it can.

Yes Canon choose not to add some features to differentiate within the range, but IQ has never been part of that strategy. Look at the number of cameras that had the same sensor as the 7d.
 
Phil V said:
The 80d 5div and 1dxii don't 'struggle' but none of them really compete with the Sony sensors abilities. Even the best Canon sensors are still behind the curve.
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But there was improvement in those sensors, the 6DII seems to have not benefited from the same improvements. Not even the same improvement as the 5DIV.

Phil V said:
Where there's a tiny negative score for DR at base ISO but at higher ISOs it becomes a positive...

Some people choose to summarise that as failing.
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Seeing as they have improved both in the sensors mentioned above, only Canon will know if it a marketing decision or a technical reason for not doing it with this sensor. I'm going with the former. ;)

Phil V said:
The internet is brilliant, people can be convinced that running the economy is exactly the same as balancing the household budget and that a market leader isn't trying to make the best products it can.

Yes Canon choose not to add some features to differentiate within the range, but IQ has never been part of that strategy. Look at the number of cameras that had the same sensor as the 7d.
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And with that 18Mp sensor in many different bodies it was the other camera features which differentiated the models, maybe Canon do not think the other features in 6DII and 5DIV would be different and attractive enough to sustain 5DIV sales with more similar sensor performance. There is huge increase in DR at base ISO from the 5DIII to the 5DIV in the four years between cameras, with an 8Mp increase in resolution. Yet with a year longer, and (slightly more) modest 6Mp increase in resolution, the 6DII sees virtually no improvement in the same area. :thinking:

Imho, and obviously you know more than I, :) they have purposely limited the 6DII sensor to protect 5DIV sales. Which is a business decision, and makes perfect sense to them of course, but the buyers and users will be missing out on a sensor that should have been better after five years of development. So no, with this sensor I think they are not doing the best they can, and in this case IQ looks to be part of their strategy. How many users and prospective users will care? Who knows. The huge amounts they spend market research must tell them it is the right decision, and the huge amount they spend on marketing will work too. :D

So in reality it is just something to speculate over on the internet, because only Canon know for sure, and they are not going to say they have done this will they! :rolleyes: That would be bad marketing. :LOL:
 
Yea i would not bother with a 6d2 and either save more for a 5d4 or jump ship. If you are looking to jump into ff for the first time. You can afford to switch Imo. Assuming you have been using crop canon body and lenses (which u will have to all get rid if anyway as u need a FF body and lenses)
 
jonneymendoza said:
Yea i would not bother with a 6d2 and either save more for a 5d4 or jump ship. If you are looking to jump into ff for the first time. You can afford to switch Imo. Assuming you have been using crop canon body and lenses (which u will have to all get rid if anyway as u need a FF body and lenses)
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Or just keep shooting with the equipment you have until the replacement comes along. :film:
 
Sony are the market leader in sensor tech, no doubt at all. Yet the A9 carries just an OK sensor, competitive but hasn't moved the game on at all. Why hasn't Sony but the very best sensor they can in it and made a statement. If you go by the seemingly only criteria of low ISO DR then the A9 is ok with "old" sensors like the D810 D750 better than it as well as the newer sensors in the 1DX MKII and 5D4.

If you delve into it a bit deeper and start looking at the overall performance then it looks a lot better in its DR when viewed across the ISO range which for a lot of people who will buy the A9 will be an important factor.

Yet all the Sony fanboys are saying the A9 is the game changer for pro sports cameras. They are obviously not basing that view on the sensor but on other features of the camera.

Move on to the 6D2 and suddenly the criteria for judging whether it will be a good camera changes and it's all about the sensor again.

People bang on about DR at base as though everyone in the world sets their ISO limit at 200. The reality is for many people who use their cameras for a variety of genres it is ISOs above this that get used predominantly. I would struggle to find many shots taken in the last 5 years that are below ISO 200. And a hell of a lot of my friends who are photographers would be the same.
 
I believe they've all got better sensors out there. But if they stick the best sensor in a camera they will sell less as they couldn't then release inferior models. It's al marketing
 
As a Canon user, this deliberate crippling of the sensor in the 6Dmkii has made me wonder if Canon is no longer interested in the high end enthusiasts who invest in lenses. A comparable scenario would be Apple going from targeting graphic professionals to a wider audience and changing their product which is no longer cutting edge but now sold more on the basis of usability and aesthetics. One has to wonder if the 6Dmkiii will suffer the same fate.
 
Whilst not being an expert on equipment, it still seems to me that there is a trend in the new Canon products that I have researched (M5, 6D2, 24-105 Mk2 zoom) . And that is that unless you go for absolutely top range kit technological shortcomings will continue to exist or improvements will not be made when you'd expect them to be made. Even the 5D4 attracted criticism when it was introduced. Whether that is a deliberate ploy or not I do not know.
 
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There wasn't much criticism on the 5d4. Just no wow features. Video was disappointing though with a very bad 4k implementation
 
jerry12953 said:
Maybe that is part of the problem (if there is one); We EXPECT wow features........
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Well imo the 6d2 not only doesn't have any wow features. It also doesn't even address the minimum set of features to make it a 4 year advanced camera compared to the 6d.
 
Mintchocs said:
As a Canon user, this deliberate crippling of the sensor in the 6Dmkii has made me wonder if Canon is no longer interested in the high end enthusiasts who invest in lenses. A comparable scenario would be Apple going from targeting graphic professionals to a wider audience and changing their product which is no longer cutting edge but now sold more on the basis of usability and aesthetics. One has to wonder if the 6Dmkiii will suffer the same fate.
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There's no nice way to say this.
If you believe Canon have deliberately crippled this sensor you're an idiot.

If you think half a point of DR at base ISO is a reason to ditch a brand, you're an idiot.

There is no doubt the new camera is better than its predecessor by most criteria, including overall DR in the real world (not the theoretical 'base ISO' score).

I'm not a fanboy, and I'm not saying there isn't a better camera out there for any particular need, just that there's some complete [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] being spouted and we should all take on responsibility for some genuine critical thinking rather than fall in line with some idiotic assumptions.

:)
 
jonneymendoza said:
Well imo the 6d2 not only doesn't have any wow features. It also doesn't even address the minimum set of features to make it a 4 year advanced camera compared to the 6d.
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Yeah but your idea of what makes a good camera changes depending on what point you're trying to make.

If people started evaluating any camera properly instead of concentrating on one specific aspect that has no real importance to a lot of people then we wouldn't be reading some of the crap that we do in these threads. The 6D2 will produce great images just like the original.
 
Gaz J said:
Yeah but your idea of what makes a good camera changes depending on what point you're trying to make.

If people started evaluating any camera properly instead of concentrating on one specific aspect that has no real importance to a lot of people then we wouldn't be reading some of the crap that we do in these threads. The 6D2 will produce great images just like the original.
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Yea hence I said imo
 
Phil V said:
There's no nice way to say this.
If you believe Canon have deliberately crippled this sensor you're an idiot.

If you think half a point of DR at base ISO is a reason to ditch a brand, you're an idiot.

There is no doubt the new camera is better than its predecessor by most criteria, including overall DR in the real world (not the theoretical 'base ISO' score).

I'm not a fanboy, and I'm not saying there isn't a better camera out there for any particular need, just that there's some complete b****x being spouted and we should all take on responsibility for some genuine critical thinking rather than fall in line with some idiotic assumptions.

:)
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You've obviously been taking lessons at the Geoffrey Boycott School of Tactful Communication......
 
jonneymendoza said:
Yea i would not bother with a 6d2 and either save more for a 5d4 or jump ship. If you are looking to jump into ff for the first time. You can afford to switch Imo. Assuming you have been using crop canon body and lenses (which u will have to all get rid if anyway as u need a FF body and lenses)
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Why would you need to get rid of them? I have FF and crop. The FF lenses work perfectly on my crops :)
 
odd jim said:
Why would you need to get rid of them? I have FF and crop. The FF lenses work perfectly on my crops :)
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Same here, I have APS-C, APS-H and Full Frame and would not get rid
 
redhed17 said:
Imho ... they have purposely limited the 6DII sensor to protect 5DIV sales. Which is a business decision, and makes perfect sense to them of course, but the buyers and users will be missing out on a sensor that should have been better after five years of development. So no, with this sensor I think they are not doing the best they can ...
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What do you think Canon's corporate objective is?
  • A. Make the best sensor they possibly can.
  • B. Make the most money they possibly can.
Both are a bit simplistic, but I'd be willing to bet that B is closer to the reality. So why complain that they're not doing A?
 
StewartR said:
What do you think Canon's corporate objective is?
  • A. Make the best sensor they possibly can.
  • B. Make the most money they possibly can.
Both are a bit simplistic, but I'd be willing to bet that B is closer to the reality. So why complain that they're not doing A?
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Is it impossible to do both?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Is it impossible to do both?
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No it's not, but they won't.

For reasons I've already alluded to.

I virtually guarantee Canon, Nikon Sony etc. have sensors in their test labs that blow the current ones out of the water.

They won't release them yet because if they did they'd never be able to recoup the millions they've spent on all the R&D they've done in the past on older (read current) sensors.

Standard marketing logic.
 
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