Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS II....at last, it's announced!!

combat squirrel said:
OHHHHHH we gotta hater ... its not bad FOR THE MONEY ... Maybe technique or something, but its defo possible to use ;)
Click to expand...
Did you actually read my post?

I don't hate this lens at all. I have about 7 of them, they're very popular, and I make good money out of them. They are excellent, for the money.

But I'm just trying to help you get a reality check. The Tamron is half the price of the Canon, but I wouldn't say it's 95% as good. It might be 95% as good optically (though I suspect not quite). But to my mind it has two potentially significant drawbacks.
* One is the build quality. I would expect to be able to beat in tent pegs with the Canon and it would still work perfectly afterwards. The Tamron isn't flimsy by any means, but I don't think it would stand up to anywhere near the same level of punishment.
* And the other is the autofocus speed. The Tamron is slo-o-o-o-o-ow. It might be OK in bright light with a contrasty stationary target, but in the real world you could miss lots of shots that you'd get with the Canon.
 
StewartR said:
Did you actually read my post?

I don't hate this lens at all. I have about 7 of them, they're very popular, and I make good money out of them. They are excellent, for the money.

But I'm just trying to help you get a reality check. The Tamron is half the price of the Canon, but I wouldn't say it's 95% as good. It might be 95% as good optically (though I suspect not quite). But to my mind it has two potentially significant drawbacks.
* One is the build quality. I would expect to be able to beat in tent pegs with the Canon and it would still work perfectly afterwards. The Tamron isn't flimsy by any means, but I don't think it would stand up to anywhere near the same level of punishment.
* And the other is the autofocus speed. The Tamron is slo-o-o-o-o-ow. It might be OK in bright light with a contrasty stationary target, but in the real world you could miss lots of shots that you'd get with the Canon.
Click to expand...
That's really interesting to real Stewart.
How do you think the sigma 150-600 sport compares to the new canon?
 
Ben6 said:
How do you think the sigma 150-600 sport compares to the new canon?
Click to expand...
Don't know. Haven't got any yet.

Do they even exist in the UK yet? I've checked all the major retailers who report their stock levels (Amazon, Calumet, Harrison, Park, WEx, Wilkinson etc) and they're still all saying pre-order only.

I will be keeping an eye on the Sigma when it does become available. It's 50% more expensive than the Tamron, and it's a *lot* bigger and heavier, so it will really have to deliver hugely on the performance front if it's to be attractive. Personally I'm not sure it will. I'm confident that it will be sharp and well built, but Sigma always struggle with AF compared to Canon, and their OS usually isn't a patch on Canon's IS or Tamron's VC.
 
I think the 100-400 mk2 will become a classic lens, it's very quick and accurate af and excellent sharpness is worth the money, especially now the price is coming down.
With the 1 Dx it's absolutely fantastic, even with a 1.4 mk3, and bearing in mind the limitations of the 7D2, it works well as a very realistically priced combo.

Reading the reviews of the build quality, I'd expect it to retain this quality for a long time, and it will be very interesting to see how Stewart finds the long term performance of this lens vis à vis the Tammy and Siggy....and the quality loss is minimal with a 1.4 mk3 extender...but the af suffers.
 
George said:
I think the 100-400 mk2 will become a classic lens, it's very quick and accurate af and excellent sharpness is worth the money, especially now the price is coming down.
With the 1 Dx it's absolutely fantastic, even with a 1.4 mk3, and bearing in mind the limitations of the 7D2, it works well as a very realistically priced combo.

Reading the reviews of the build quality, I'd expect it to retain this quality for a long time, and it will be very interesting to see how Stewart finds the long term performance of this lens vis à vis the Tammy and Siggy....and the quality loss is minimal with a 1.4 mk3 extender...but the af suffers.
Click to expand...

Where have you seen the price dropping? Yes, all the grey importers are lower than the likes of Park or Wex or any such listed on camerapricebuster where the price is stubbornly at £1999
 
StewartR said:
Did you actually read my post?

I don't hate this lens at all. I have about 7 of them, they're very popular, and I make good money out of them. They are excellent, for the money.

But I'm just trying to help you get a reality check. The Tamron is half the price of the Canon, but I wouldn't say it's 95% as good. It might be 95% as good optically (though I suspect not quite). But to my mind it has two potentially significant drawbacks.
* One is the build quality. I would expect to be able to beat in tent pegs with the Canon and it would still work perfectly afterwards. The Tamron isn't flimsy by any means, but I don't think it would stand up to anywhere near the same level of punishment.
* And the other is the autofocus speed. The Tamron is slo-o-o-o-o-ow. It might be OK in bright light with a contrasty stationary target, but in the real world you could miss lots of shots that you'd get with the Canon.
Click to expand...

Your entire post that I read consisted of:

"So long as you've got something to keep you amused whilst the Tamron focuses, this is a good plan. "War and peace" perhaps. Or "A brief history of time"."

So, no, oddly I didn't draw much informative non sarcastic information from it, I only read that because you quoted me so iv not dug back through this thread.

TP says your an advertiser - so a seller of lenses or something I guess, the guy I linked is a pro wildlife photographer - so again my point, it might be '****' compared to the canon L - but iv heard from people OUT IN THE FIELD (so to speak), the tamron +1's the old 100-400 in IQ and AF - everyone coped with that for the last 14 years so ............... the huge rifts your portraying between the two lenses are a little OTT IMO (new 100-400, this)........FYI I don't own either so im not biased, all reviews say its a TAD slower in AF, not night and day, A TAD slower.

I shall continue to source my information from MANY places to get an average view of the said equipment, iv even noted your points that the tamron is **** compared to the canon, albeit this info is at odds with the vast majority of info I have read, so id take this with a little ...... right wing politics and keep researching ;)

Thank you, for your input.
 
Last edited:
Minor detail! :)
 
combat squirrel said:
it might be '****' compared to the canon L
...
the huge rifts your portraying between the two lenses are a little OTT IMO
...
iv even noted your points that the tamron is **** compared to the canon
Click to expand...
Why do you insist on misquoting me?

I haven't said the Tamron is a bad lens. All I have said is:
* the Canon is probably better optically, but not by much;
* the Canon has better build quality, but the Tamron isn't bad;
* the Tamron's AF is *much* slower if the light is not ideal.

That's all. I think the Tamron is an excellent lens for the money. (I said that before, too.) I think the Canon is definitely a better lens. But it costs twice as much, so is it twice as good? For most people, probably not.
 
The shop I got my 100-400 II from yesterday said that 7DII sales are very slow. Apparently most potential buyers choosing to go with the 5DIII instead or stick with the 7D.
 
GeeJay57 said:
....Apparently most potential buyers choosing to go with the 5DIII instead or stick with the 7D.
Click to expand...
I can understand that point, Glenn. The 7D2 has landed in a very fragmented market where there are many common features that overlap and the lines between them are less well defined. There were two very distinct paths below the 1srs bodies until the 5D3 was released. The choice was full frame quality with little regard to action photography or a 7D with the emphasis on action at the expense of overall image quality. What do we have now?

Previous 5D's didn't really lend themselves to action photography but the MkIII accomplishes this very well and trumps the 7D2 when the lighting becomes an issue.
The 70D is quite adequate for many people and comes in at around half the price of the 7D2.
Using a 7D2 as a backup for a 1Dx is very limiting and it can't reasonably fulfill that role for sports togs after dark whereas the 5D3 can (albeit with some limitations).

It's been mentioned a few times already in this thread but I believe it could have set it self apart a little more with a few Mp less and the (assumed) correspondingly better performance when the iso needs notching up (poor lighting and /or very high shutter speeds).

Bob
 
AF speed and accuracy is a two-sided coin. The lens only responds to instructions from the camera, but the camera can only be as good as the image it receives from the lens. The Tamron's AF mechanism is actually pretty fast, no problem there.

The Tamron's difficulty, and the similar-spec Sigma 150-600 Sport, is the maximum aperture at 600mm is f/6.3. That is above the f/5.6 ceiling of most cameras. Note that Canon does not produce a lens with a max aperture higher than f/5.6 and if you go above that with an extender etc, the AF switches out, so lenses that run at f/6.3 have to fool the AF system into continuing to function. Only the 7D2, 5D3 and 1DX will AF up to f/8, but speed/accuracy is still compromised by the physically smaller aperture. It's the actual diameter of the aperture hole that's critical with phase-detect AF.

So at f/6.3 the lens is already fighting with one hand behind its back. If you then add into the equation a camera with less good AF, with less than optimum AF set-up, poor light and lack of a good contrasty target, plus an inexperienced long lens user (big lenses are not easy to get the best from) then you end up with stories about poor AF performance. Do the opposite - good camera, optimum AF set-up, centre-point AF accurately nailed to a nice contrasty area of the subject by someone who's had a bit of practise, and you get reports of very good AF performance.

Back to the Canon 100-400 Mk2 - that will always score a higher hit rate, particularly with less experienced long lens users. It's a top quality lens, much higher priced, it's f/5.6 at 400mm, and with only two-thirds the focal length of the Tamron and a lot less weight, and far easier to use.
 
Last edited:
StewartR said:
Don't know. Haven't got any yet.

Do they even exist in the UK yet? I've checked all the major retailers who report their stock levels (Amazon, Calumet, Harrison, Park, WEx, Wilkinson etc) and they're still all saying pre-order only.

I will be keeping an eye on the Sigma when it does become available. It's 50% more expensive than the Tamron, and it's a *lot* bigger and heavier, so it will really have to deliver hugely on the performance front if it's to be attractive. Personally I'm not sure it will. I'm confident that it will be sharp and well built, but Sigma always struggle with AF compared to Canon, and their OS usually isn't a patch on Canon's IS or Tamron's VC.
Click to expand...


My 150-600mm Sigma sport will be here Wednesday (Canon mount, Amazon UK) so they must be coming in slowly now.
 
HoppyUK said:
AF speed and accuracy is a two-sided coin. The lens only responds to instructions from the camera, but the camera can only be as good as the image it receives from the lens. The Tamron's AF mechanism is actually pretty fast, no problem there.

The Tamron's difficulty, and the similar-spec Sigma 150-600 Sport, is the maximum aperture at 600mm is f/6.3. That is above the f/5.6 ceiling of most cameras. Note that Canon does not produce a lens with a max aperture higher than f/5.6 and if you go above that with an extender etc, the AF switches out, so lenses that run at f/6.3 have to fool the AF system into continuing to function. Only the 7D2, 5D3 and 1DX will AF up to f/8, but speed/accuracy is still compromised by the physically smaller aperture. It's the actual diameter of the aperture hole that's critical with phase-detect AF.

So at f/6.3 the lens is already fighting with one hand behind its back. If you then add into the equation a camera with less good AF, with less than optimum AF set-up, poor light and lack of a good contrasty target, plus an inexperienced long lens user (big lenses are not easy to get the best from) then you end up with stories about poor AF performance. Do the opposite - good camera, optimum AF set-up, centre-point AF accurately nailed to a nice contrasty area of the subject by someone who's had a bit of practise, and you get reports of very good AF performance.

Back to the Canon 100-400 Mk2 - that will always score a higher hit rate, particularly with less experienced long lens users. It's a top quality lens, much higher priced, it's f/5.6 at 400mm, and with only two-thirds the focal length of the Tamron and a lot less weight, and far easier to use.
Click to expand...

This - its usually user skill
 
George said:
I think the 100-400 mk2 will become a classic lens, it's very quick and accurate af and excellent sharpness is worth the money, especially now the price is coming down.
Click to expand...

I can't see any price drops yet, all the UK retailers are still selling for £1999
 
Steve W said:
I can't see any price drops yet, all the UK retailers are still selling for £1999
Click to expand...

Yes sorry, I have been a bit previous in my comment, I was basing it on the cutback offer and the grey importers, and hadn't looked at the availability and price on CP Buster.

It does seem strange that there seems to be a shortage in the "legitimate" outlets and the grey importers seem to have stocks, however.

Anyway, I'm delighted with the lens, and any purchasers won't be disappointed-and I do believe that there will soon be some reductions when there is more availability.

Sorry for the mistake.

George.
 
No problem George, I am thinking of getting this lens and 7dmk2 as grey import, I cannot justify paying £1000 more to the same items from UK stockists.
 
Steve W said:
No problem George, I am thinking of getting this lens and 7dmk2 as grey import, I cannot justify paying £1000 more to the same items from UK stockists.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean, Steve, seems crazy doesn't it?....but we've been over the reasons and excuses many times!!
 
I expect it has been discussed a lot. It seems to be that you get a better deal grey import, cheaper price and longer warranty. :)
 
Spoke to a guy yesterday that bought one from Amazon France, £1647 delivered in 48 hours.

Full EU warranty and vat receipt supplied, instructions were in French
 
Yeah, at Hdew you can get it for £1649 with 3 year UK based warranty, why would I want to spend £1999 and only get a 1 year warranty ?? Will be buying one in April, can't wait as this lens has got excellent reviews....
 
Steve W said:
... why would I want to spend £1999?
Click to expand...
You know the answer, but the short version is (a) because it's legal, and (b) because that £1999 contains £440 of contributions towards the cost of the NHS, pensions etc.
 
Why is it illegal to buy a product imported to the UK? Surely VAT is paid by the company selling the lens as it has to go through customs.
 
Steve W said:
Why is it illegal to buy a product imported to the UK? Surely VAT is paid by the company selling the lens as it has to go through customs.
Click to expand...

Steve, you may have missed all the discussion that's been on various threads re the grey imports, in a nutshell they import directly from the far east, and don't declare the true value of the lens, and for whatever reason, it doesn't seem ever to get picked up by uk customs, so it's actually illegal.

However if it's bought from a reputable Canon dealer in France, who has paid (and can give) a VAT receipt, I personally don't see that would be a problem and I'm sure Canon UK would accept the warranty.
 
Nothing illegal about lenses purchased from Hdew cameras and their VAT receipts are all above board too - i'd be happy with the NHS receiving £274 contribution if I was in the market for one, which sadly I am not as I have only recently bought a 100-400 mki after selling my Bigma lens which I really should have gotten rid of a long time ago.
 
Airscene said:
Nothing illegal about lenses purchased from Hdew cameras and their VAT receipts are all above board too - i'd be happy with the NHS receiving £274 contribution if I was in the market for one, which sadly I am not as I have only recently bought a 100-400 mki after selling my Bigma lens which I really should have gotten rid of a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Where do HDEW get their stock from?...is it Canon UK?
 
no - I am pretty certain the lens I ordered was European stock - ready for collection 2 days after ordering
 
When I spoke to hdew the other day about a 7dmk2 he said their cameras come with a UK charger and plug... Make of that what you will.

If it is illegal why are these companies allowed to trade?
 
admirable said:
Spoke to a guy yesterday that bought one from Amazon France, £1647 delivered in 48 hours.

Full EU warranty and vat receipt supplied, instructions were in French
Click to expand...

Just had a quick look and its 100 euros cheaper on Amazon Germany than France. 2199 v 2299 euros.

Either way still cheaper than Amazon UK !!!
 
At the moment, there's a much more serious issue......great aurora forecast at the moment, and it's visible in a few spots, but total cloud cover here....:(
 
So if I go to a shop and buy a product, the onus is on me to check the shop is selling properly imported products?
 
Steve W said:
So if I go to a shop and buy a product, the onus is on me to check the shop is selling properly imported products?
Click to expand...

Not quite, if you import a product the onus is on you to pay the correct duty
 
So hdew should be okay then as they import to their premises. Then sell from there to the public.
 
Steve W said:
So hdew should be okay then
Click to expand...
Steve, we're in danger of completely derailing this thread. So let's try and quickly summarise the HDEW issues, and if you have any other questions about HDEW I suggest you go to the 'Shopping and suppliers' sub-forum.

On the one hand, some people question as to whether HDEW's operations are entirely legal. Their prices are consistently way below all the other mainstream suppliers, and some people find it hard to see how they can legitimately undercut the major players like Amazon and WEx by such huge amounts. Their prices are just about what you'd expect if the equipment had been imported, and was being sold, without VAT and import duty having been applied, and this just adds to the suspicion in some people's minds.

On the other hand, nobody has come forward with any evidence that they are doing anything wrong. They seem to always supply VAT invoices; some people have reported that a VAT invoice was provided automatically, and others have reported that they had to ask for one, but I don't think anybody has reported being refused one.

Hope that helps. If you have any other questions about HDEW I suggest you go to the 'Shopping and suppliers' sub-forum.
 
Thanks Stewart, I was not going to post anything else on this subject as you are right, this thread is about the 100-400 mk2 lens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top