Canon announces EOS 7D ***Official Discussion thread***

jontucker said:
CT.... Nudge!;)
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PM me somwhere to upload too then. ;)

Mind you I had to install the new version of DPP - the earlier version woudn't recognize the files, so you might struggle.
 
I wrote a quick review review on another thread on Saturday night but it looks like all the review comments are coming here too. So, I've copied it here in case someone missed it...

grumpybadger said:
OK. Well, as I said last night, I had a play with my 7D that I collected from Digital Depot yesterday lunchtime. First impressions are very good. Here's a quick review so far.

1. Look and feel
The 7D definitely feels a bit more substantial than the 50D that its replaced. It's not much bigger but has an extra ridge on the back that seems to help it fit the hand better. The eye-cup is a touch larger and more like the one on my 1DsII - presumably the bigger viewfinder needs a bigger eye-cup.

One of the big revelations for me is the shutter button. It is so controllable. When I had a 1D MkII, I used to have to leave it in low speed mode or I would always fire off two shots at a time. The new button on the 7D offers the control to leave the camera on 8fps and still take single shots when I need to.

The only negative is the same issue that I've always had with the 5D and xxD cameras that pulling it out of a bag can cause the control knob top left to turn to a different mode so you have to remember to check it. Perhaps I need to go back to the insulation tape holding the control like I did on my 5D.

2. Viewfinder
The viewfinder is superb. It is significantly clearer than the 50D and exactly what I was hoping for. I also like the new grid you can turn on or off in the viewfinder. I have a grid screen on my 1DsII which I find very useful for leveling horizons and to have the option when I want on the 7D is great.

3. AF Performance
Although I haven't had chance to test in anger yet (planes against sky are hardly a challenge) it feels impressive and did in the garden this morning too. I am co-leading a bird of prey photography workshop next Saturday and so should be able to comment better then. The 50D really struggled a couple of weeks ago so we will have to wait and see.

But, it feels like the AF is accurate and tracks well on planes (the results so far confirm this) and it is certainly quicker than my 1DsII.

It also seemed to handover between AF points and seemed to be more sophisticated than the 1Ds. Again, only time and experience will truly tell.

4. Metering Performance
Can't really comment yet as I was running manual metering off bushes so nothing challenging.

5. Options
It's a complex camera and I will have to take time to learn it. Only really played with the different AF modes a little bit so far.

6. Image Quality
I know there are loads of tests but for me the real proof will be in what I take images of.

Firstly, 100% crop on a decent lens (500/4) shows good resolution and although high ISO looks reasonably noisy at the pixel level, it takes NR well showing the noise is well distributed and on a full screen image where pixel smoothing/averaging is used the quality really is good. I reckon it's at least a match for my full frame 1DsII. I need to do a Noise Ninja profile and play more but again it looks pretty promising.

7. Other info
It works with Lightroom 2.5 although it is not on the official list of supported cameras. However, only a beta camera profile is available so I would expect 2.6 to offer better support.

8. Conclusions
So far, so good. Pretty impressed although need to take more images. Really feels like it could hit the spot as a 1D-lite, in the same way as a 5DII is a 1Ds-lite.

So, an image...



EOS 7D, 500 f/4L IS, tripod, gimbal, ISO 1250, f/4.5, 1/250s

As you can see, it was getting proper dark - this was taken at about 7pm last night.

And a 100% crop



I don't want to get into a pixel peeping war here just want to provide people with information.

Yes a D700/D3 will be better but I wanted a crop sensor on this camera. Remember, this is a 100% crop from a 18Mpx image. I am very confident this will give a fine quality A4 print and Noise Ninja would further help things along.

Hope this is useful to some and I will add more over the coming days/weeks as I get more exposure to the camera. I would also encourage other early adopters to do the same.

Paul
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CT said:
I did notice straight away that the images on the preview screen looked a lot darker than on all the XXD cameras I've had,
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Glad thats not just me, noticed this myself and have upped the Brightness on the LCD.
 
^^Gord^^ said:
CT,

Silent shutter us on by default. Try switching that off and see if the shutter sounds better.

Gord.
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The two silent modes only work in Live View though?
 
cosmix3 said:
Glad thats not just me, noticed this myself and have upped the Brightness on the LCD.
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Switching it off Auto onto Manual makes it a bit brighter too, but I might give it a touch more. :thumbs:
 
CT said:
Switching it off Auto onto Manual makes it a bit brighter too, but I might give it a touch more. :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Think thats what I did, will have another look though, thanks CT.
 
OK. Another test result to share.

I've historically run the old Sandisk Extreme III cards or Transcend 133x cards and have got about the same performance on the 1DsII (presumably meaning the cards were faster than the camera).

Since the 7D has a high frame rate and also creates very large images, I decided to invest in some new 300x UDMA cards (should be similar to the new 45MB/s Sandisk Extremes but much cheaper)

The test was the fire a burst until the camera slowed down from the high speed and then wait for the buffer to be empty. So, to be clear, the time is from the start of the burst to when the write LED goes out.

Transcend 133x (8Gb): 41s
Sandisk Extreme III (classic) (8Gb): 23s
Transcend 300x UDMA (16Gb): 14s

So, I would say that fast cards are indeed very useful on the new camera.

Paul
 
grumpybadger said:
OK. Another test result to share.

I've historically run the old Sandisk Extreme III cards or Transcend 133x cards and have got about the same performance on the 1DsII (presumably meaning the cards were faster than the camera).

Since the 7D has a high frame rate and also creates very large images, I decided to invest in some new 300x UDMA cards (should be similar to the new 45MB/s Sandisk Extremes but much cheaper)

The test was the fire a burst until the camera slowed down from the high speed and then wait for the buffer to be empty. So, to be clear, the time is from the start of the burst to when the write LED goes out.

Transcend 133x (8Gb): 41s
Sandisk Extreme III (classic) (8Gb): 23s
Transcend 300x UDMA (16Gb): 14s

So, I would say that fast cards are indeed very useful on the new camera.

Paul
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Indeedy Paul... the 7D is producing 51.2mb TIFF images... image library ready if that's your bag.
 
It appears that Aperture 2 does not currently support the raw format from the 7D (thanks CT for sending me the file) so I am going to wait for an update before I order mine!
 
Glad you are putting the 7D to some use alread badger.

i think we have now fulfilled all the backorders and have a few spare bodies left if anyone is still tempted.

Mention TP and you will get the £1399 price.


Stuart
01438 367619
 
DigitalDepot said:
Glad you are putting the 7D to some use alread badger.

i think we have now fulfilled all the backorders and have a few spare bodies left if anyone is still tempted.

Mention TP and you will get the £1399 price.


Stuart
01438 367619
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tempting but I will take a chance :D
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-EOS-7D-EF-S-18-135mm-IS-Lens-Kit-8GB-6Gifts-C3CS_W0QQitemZ200387437966QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN?hash=item2ea805a58e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
 
DigitalDepot said:
Glad you are putting the 7D to some use alread badger.

i think we have now fulfilled all the backorders and have a few spare bodies left if anyone is still tempted.

Mention TP and you will get the £1399 price.


Stuart
01438 367619
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Fancy taking my mint 50D in part exchange? :D
 
DigitalDepot said:
Glad you are putting the 7D to some use alread badger.

i think we have now fulfilled all the backorders and have a few spare bodies left if anyone is still tempted.

Mention TP and you will get the £1399 price.


Stuart
01438 367619
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hi Stuart, I emailed you last week regarding the 7D but you never got back to me, is it better to phone you.
 
Danny

sorry for that i get a lot of emails/messages

Yes call us now 01438 367619

Stuart
 
DigitalDepot said:
tut tut you should be helping the UK economy to get out of recession rather than sending your money to Hong Kong. ;)
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Yeh and at the prices they charge consumers in the UK it wont be long before we are back on our feet and pushing the prices up of products even further :shrug:

But I still want one ;)
 
Anyone using it with the 18-135? Looking for a walkaround lens so would be interesting to gt thoughts on the lens!
 
OK, for me, this is the biggy. AF Perfomance.

I popped out at lunchtime to my local raptor centre to have a play. I think my initial summary is that it's good, but not as good as my 1Ds Mark II. That may be down to finger error, the fact that the AF has to be nearly twice as good at tracking to look as good (due to the increase in pixels and crop factor), the use of my 100-400 - which is far from the fastest AF lens or actually due to camera. I'm not yet sure.

The 7D AF is complex with several different modes available and I think it will take me time to learn them. I have every confidence that the camera can deliver good results but haven't yet been able to nail it.

First set of test images is taken using single AF point (centre - although the camera does seem to try and hand-over to adjacent points if your alignment isn't bang on)

These are a set of images in a burst at full speed:



It's a tricky test case with a contrasty background not much behind the bird and, at full frame, they look reasonable.

However, it's time to be picky and this is 100% crop of the eye of the bird:



The first two look pretty much on but then the focus slips back on the last 2. I don't know if the lens was too slow to keep up or not. But, I do know that I lost covering the bird with the centre spot and so it may have stopped focusing properly. The third (bottom left) image looks the worst and I wonder if the AF is trying to catch up by the last one.

I'm still pretty happy at this for a first attempt with an f/5.6 lens and am sure there is better to be had.

The next test was on the red tailed hawk, using the new Zone AF mode, with the centre 9 AF points.

This time, this is alternate frames from a burst:



Again at full frame they look pretty good. I have to say I am disappointed with the crops but it looks to me to be a mix of motion blur and focusing.



Motion blur is definitely visible on the first one. The middle two I'm less sure about and the final one is almost there again but not quite. It looks like the 1/1250s wasn't quite enough.

I think I'll be back again for another go with my 300/4 and see how that performs. I'll also try and use a much faster shutter speed to try and remove the chances of motion blur.

It's a promising start and the AF is fast. It doesn't feel quite up with the 1DsII but it does feel like 80% of the way there. Having said that I am used to using the 1Ds on an f/4 lens, not f/5.6.

Not the most conclusive of reviews I'm afraid but I thought I'd share early experiments

Paul
 
grumpybadger said:
...Motion blur is definitely visible on the first one...

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul, there's motion blur in most of them I think, some quite a lot. That highlight in the eyes should be perfectly round.

But some are also not properly focused. They look very like the sort of sequence I get with my 40D and 100-400L. I have always suspected the camera, but maybe it's the lens :thinking:
 
Agreed. As I said, I want another go as I've been pretty impressed with the AF speed so far. With hindsight, I should have taken the 300/4 with me instead of the 100-400. I was stopped down to f/8 as the 100-400 is a touch soft wide open at 400mm. I must admit that I'd assumed 1/1250s was enough for big birds like this but obviously not.

Still, its early days yet. I reckon it took me about 2000 frames to get the hang of a 1-series so I'm sure more of it is me than the camera right now.

What I will say is that 18Mpx on a crop sensor will slaughter bad camera technique.
 
Nice to see you showing your findings with complete honesty, I look forward to seeing how your performance and findings improve when you get the hang of it.

I thought long and hard about dropping back down to a cropped body from the 5d, but decided to go for the 5d2.....i soooooooo don't want to end up thinking I've gone the wrong way :D
 
digitalfailure said:
Nice to see you showing your findings with complete honesty, I look forward to seeing how your performance and findings improve when you get the hang of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian. I thought long and hard about whether to post "warts and all" or keep quiet but I think it is useful to share. It definitely "feels" better than the 50D did so I look forward to getting some more results to share soon. Already working out if I can nip back tomorrow at lunchtime with the 300/4!
 
FWIW I attempt to shoot BIF with my 100-400 with a 50D and a 1D3. I'm sure the higher pixel density of the 50D is merciless when it comes to studying 100% crops but I do feel that my 1D3 absolutely walks all over my 50D for AF. When considering the issues of noise, even as low as 400 ISO, the 50D starts to look quite disadvantaged against the 1D3. Where the 50D really owns the 1D3 is for the static subjects, where the focus can be bang on (possibly using Live View) and the ISO kept low (100 or 200) and then the pixels prove their worth.

I am very interested in the 7D and I'm really hoping it is the next best thing since sliced bread. I wanted the 50D to have pro AF performance, which I know it didn't. I'm really hoping the 7D can deliver the goods that the 50D cannot. Whether the 100-400 zoom is capable of allowing the 7D to shine is another matter. Of course, were I to have a 500/4 prime I might well find that results from both my bodies improve significantly and I don't need a 7D at all, but a 500/4 is way more expensive and quite honesty I am not so dedicated to bird photography that I feel the need to invest in such a lens.

Anyway, thanks for posting. I shall be following this thread with interest. Stuart is making it very hard for me to keep my money in my pocket at the moment, but honest reviews of real world BIF shooting are very important to my decision making. I look forward to seeing how things go with your 300/4. Mind you, I read the AF on that isn't stellar either, not compared to the 300/2.8, but maybe I misread. Watching :)
 
Hi Tim

The real test will be my 500/4 on the 7D but that will be wild birds rather than captive and I probably won't be doing that test for a couple of weeks due to other commitments.

The BIF with the bird head on is a pretty aggressive test I have to say. I'd agree that the 300/4 isn't as quick as the 300/2.8 but it isn't a slouch either. May borrow Sue's 200/2.8 as another option to test with.

I'm hoping to pop back tomorrow and it may be 1 lens at a time. As you say though, both the 50D and 7D put huge demands on both the lens and the photographer to get things right.
 
I look forward to your results with a faster lens Paul. I've not had much chance to really use the 7D in anger, but I managed a few shots today. These are shot at 800 ISO which I'm interested in as it's pretty well my default ISO with the 500mm, so I know what to expect from the 50D and can make a good judgement of the 7D performance at the same ISO.

All shot with the 7D, 500mm F4L and 1.4X TC at 800 ISO They're all substantial crops with the full frame version shown inset. No noise reduction has been used on any of them.

3969543970_c915e961dc_o.jpg


3969544388_d85f303f5c_o.jpg


3968781375_ac9bce8b1d_o.jpg


There's a slight but clear noise improvement over the 50D for me, which is incredible given that the 7D packs another 3 million pixels onto the sensor, and even with large crops it's capable of resolving some very fine detail. These aren't the best examples as the Sparroiws were at 1/200th sec and the Robin was at 1/100th, so sharper is certainly possible.


A minor niggle is I'm seeing a magenta cast which was a problem with the 50D, so I'm surprised to be seeing it with the 7D. I haven't corrected it with the Robon shot as it's not unattractive, but I have with the Sparrow shots as it was having a more noticable effect on the colour of the birds. It's easily sorted in processing, but I'm surprised to be seeing it since Canon produced a firmware fix for the same issue with the 50D.
 
Just got mine unpacked and charging battery as I speak.

CT, stop posting shots.

I can`t blame the camera now!!!!

:lol:
 
I would like to say a thank you to Stuart and the team at Digital Depot.
Received my 7D today.
Some nice shots CT.
 
As above really - A big thank you to Stuart at Digital Depot for making me part with my money.

7D arrived today, just charging her up to have a play!!

Any opinions on some of the menu settings? For example, CT you highlighted about the menus best to diable for the 50D - Any idea on these yet? Am I looking at disabling that auto lighting optimiser similar to the 50D?
 
Love the cropped Robin shot Cedric!

I think I have made up my mind now!
 
swag72 said:
As above really - A big thank you to Stuart at Digital Depot for making me part with my money.

7D arrived today, just charging her up to have a play!!

Any opinions on some of the menu settings? For example, CT you highlighted about the menus best to diable for the 50D - Any idea on these yet? Am I looking at disabling that auto lighting optimiser similar to the 50D?
Click to expand...

Congratulations Sara it's an exciting camera. :thumbs:

Definitely dsable ALO and HTP the same as the 50D or they do cause noise when shooting RAW.

Beyond that you're going to have to bear with us as we experiment with the new settings. The AF system has so many options and about 13 custom functions, so it's going to take time to sort out how to set it up for the best results for action shots. In fact if you find out - let us know! :D
 
Thanks Cedric - Appreciate that. Would it be useful to start a thread similar to the 50D one you did for the hints and tips and stuff?

There is loads to learn that's for sure!!
 
EdBray said:
Love the cropped Robin shot Cedric!

I think I have made up my mind now!
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Here's a 1:1 crop Ed straight from the RAW. Yoiu can see how much I missed focus by. :p

3969318575_bcdbde66d5_o.jpg


And another

3970089490_d11486012d_o.jpg


Shutter speed was only 1/100th for these at 700mm, but that's pretty impressive noise performance for 800 ISO.
 
coldpenguin said:
I would like to say a thank you to Stuart and the team at Digital Depot.
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I'll second that - it was a great discount off the launch price of a new model, and pretty rapid service and good communication from Digital Depot too

Thanks Stuart! :thumbs:
 
CT said:
I'll second that - it was a great discount off the launch price of a new model, and pretty rapid service and good communication from Digital Depot too

Thanks Stuart! :thumbs:
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...and I'll third that !! It was brave of Stuart to go out on a limb with his pricing, and I hope it pays off in volume sales for DD.:thumbs:
 
cosmix3 said:
Just the default (literally says default in the drop down)as it came, not used it that much really so don't play with the settings.
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Cheers...............just wondered? Mine has a few in the drop down like Landscape - Portrait etc. all with a different amount of reduction.
 
CT said:
The two silent modes only work in Live View though?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you are right.

grumpybadger said:
OK. Another test result to share.

I've historically run the old Sandisk Extreme III cards or Transcend 133x cards and have got about the same performance on the 1DsII (presumably meaning the cards were faster than the camera).

Since the 7D has a high frame rate and also creates very large images, I decided to invest in some new 300x UDMA cards (should be similar to the new 45MB/s Sandisk Extremes but much cheaper)

The test was the fire a burst until the camera slowed down from the high speed and then wait for the buffer to be empty. So, to be clear, the time is from the start of the burst to when the write LED goes out.

Transcend 133x (8Gb): 41s
Sandisk Extreme III (classic) (8Gb): 23s
Transcend 300x UDMA (16Gb): 14s

So, I would say that fast cards are indeed very useful on the new camera.

Paul
Click to expand...

That's interesting Paul. I've just got two Transcend 600x UDMA6 cards and thought I'd try them out.

7D with fixed prime, manual focus, high speed shooting, 1/8000s, f/9, ISO 6400, fired through a remote release and aimed at a light bulb.

16 high speed RAW burst followed by 2 'slow' speed frames.

Cards formated in the camera before testing, shutter release and stop watch started at the same time. Stop watch stopped after the light went out.

4GB Extreme III (30MB/s version): 456MB in 18.680s = 24MB/s
8GB Transcend 600x: 479MB in 9.404s = 51 MB/s
 
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