Canon announces EOS 7D ***Official Discussion thread***

I notice that the water / dust resistance (weather sealing) is stated as 'Yes (equal to EOS-1N)' - is this the same as the other Canon 1D models or different?

I'm just wondering if the current 1D crop of cameras has greater/lesser/same weather sealing than the EOS-1N.
 
The 1N was Canon's second last pro film body (the last was and still is the 1V) and was a full pro body like the current 1D and 1Ds series.
It was state of the art then and is a tough cookie. It was the press boy's main tool and they know how to abuse them!!

George
 
grumpybadger said:
One thing I've not seen on the spec list is whether the centre AF point will AF at f/8. If so, could be interesting to the birders.

Not sure if you have found out yet, but it will only focus at F5.6 not F8.
It's in the spec.
So no better than xxD then.
C
Click to expand...
 
Ceejay said:
Not sure if you have found out yet, but it will only focus at F5.6 not F8.
It's in the spec.
So no better than xxD then.
C
Click to expand...

Thanks CeeJay. Hadn't found that. Not too surprised though.

buckas said:
more sample shots and video added in galbraiths review - http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239
Click to expand...

I've done some A4 prints from some of the samples and it is certainly good enough (to my eye) to be impressive up to ISO1600 and I reckon even 3200 with a bit of Noise Ninja afterwards...
 
Buttkicker said:
This does look to be a really excellent bit of kit, the off camera flash is what interests me, and would you believe it I ordered some pocket wizards last night !!!
Click to expand...

Hmmm don't be too excited - this is Canon's version of the Nikon CLS (creative lighting system), which is remote flashes fired by light pulses from the camera's pop up flash (or another onboard flash unit or special flash commander unit, which I think Canon already had)

It works OK indoors, not so good outdoors in daylight and always you are constricted to the angles you can use...

My opinion on CLS is its a great way for Nikon to get you to buy more flashguns and then you'll also buy wireless triggers once you realise the problems!
 
Ceejay said:
grumpybadger said:
One thing I've not seen on the spec list is whether the centre AF point will AF at f/8. If so, could be interesting to the birders.

Not sure if you have found out yet, but it will only focus at F5.6 not F8.
It's in the spec.
So no better than xxD then.
C
Click to expand...

Thats interesting too...

So no weather sealing, no dual cards, no large format body, no f8 focus points, no fast shutter, APS-C sensor - thats what will cost you the difference between this and the forthcoming 1D MkIV.
Click to expand...
 
Don't forget only 2stop+- Ev and 3 burst bracketing shots, the same as the 350d.

Even the D300 can bracket more shots for HDR.
 
desantnik said:
Thats interesting too...

So no weather sealing, no dual cards, no large format body, no f8 focus points, no fast shutter, APS-C sensor - thats what will cost you the difference between this and the forthcoming 1D MkIV.
Click to expand...

It is weather sealed. I'm happy with that bit.
The lack of dual cards is a shame. I'd have liked to see it support CF/SDHC same as my current 1-series
I'm happy that it is APS-C, makes it a small and light camera and finally Canon have produced a better spec body to wrap around than the 20D
No f/8 focus is a shame but actually its next to useless on the 1D anyway - centre point only and very slow
Presume you mean shutter lag. I've never noticed a problem on a 50D so reckon I'll be ok. Differences of 2 one-hundredths of a second won't impact me. Mirror blackout time is much more important to me and Galbraith reports 100ms. My 1Ds is 87 so that's pretty close.
APS-C - covered above

It all comes down to value and in the same way as a 5DII is a great value "1Ds light" I think the 7D looks, on paper at least, like a great value "1D light"
 
DigitalDepot said:
Hi everyone.

Ive got my pricing now so id be happy to offer TP members a pre order price of £1399 body only.

Let me know by PM or email me if you are interested.

Email would be better as my mailbox on here keeps filling up.

Stuart
www.digitaldepot.co.uk
stuart@digitaldepot.co.uk
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Can i say well done that man (Stuart & Digital Depot)) with that offer to TP members many thanks.
 
I can't understand why people seem to think this should have been yet another full f rame camera.. This is a serious attempt by Canon to deliver better image quality on a high pixel density crop sensor.To continually keep equating pixel density with image noise, because it's always been so is to completely ignore the huge strides which are being made in sensor technology. This camera should deliver an ability to crop and retain detail which is far in excess of anything else out there, and it's appeal to anyone who shoots wildlife with a long lens should be pretty obvious, yet time and again we see only the odd passing refence in camera reviews to this real strength of the format, accompanied by the same old sample shots which do nothing to demonstrate the camera to those it's really aimed at.

This could be pretty close to my ideal camera. The increased pixel density means a little more reach, and the claimed half stop improvement in noise performance is more han welcome. People should also note that each of the 19 AF points on this camera are full cross- type points - only 15 of the 51 on the Nikon are cross type. In addition there are invisible focus aid points on the 7D, whiuch promise to make it a big step up from the existing XXD sytem.

OK ... it's a slight disappointment that it wont AF with a 2X converter and sometimes there's no substitute for the ultimate reach that option would provide, but the truth is I haven't missed using the 2X TC on the 50D as the effective reach with a 1.4X TC is pretty much the same as with a 2X TC on a 1.3 crop sensor, and I'm gaining an extra stop in speed and image quality for the same reach. The 7D should only improve that situation a little further.

I'm very tempted I must admit. Unfortunately the battery grip isn't optional as far as I'm concerned, it's essential for a well balanced camera, and as it's an entirely new grip which ups the initial oulay, not to mention the additional battery for the grip.
 
desantnik said:
Hmmm don't be too excited - this is Canon's version of the Nikon CLS (creative lighting system), which is remote flashes fired by light pulses from the camera's pop up flash (or another onboard flash unit or special flash commander unit, which I think Canon already had)

It works OK indoors, not so good outdoors in daylight and always you are constricted to the angles you can use...

My opinion on CLS is its a great way for Nikon to get you to buy more flashguns and then you'll also buy wireless triggers once you realise the problems!
Click to expand...

I believe it is a wireless control system and not controlled by light pulses as you state.
 
or8it - that would be entirely pointless as you wouldn't be able to control any canon flashes.

It is as Desantnik described.
 
Or8it, the diagram on that page clearly shows the usable angle of the wireless system which is based on the wide angle popup flash. This is the standard line of sight light based wireless system.

As I said before, why would canon release a camera with a radio wireless system as you suggest when it would be incompatible with all their flashes...
 
Yup, its an optical system like using a 550/580EX or ST-E2 as master. Can still have different channels as the data is coded and ignored if the channel doesn't match...
 
Can someone explain to me the f/8 AF Centre point issue in plain english. Does the centre AF not work above f/8?
 
Freester said:
Can someone explain to me the f/8 AF Centre point issue in plain english. Does the centre AF not work above f/8?
Click to expand...

The camera expects/requires a lens with a max aperture of f/5.6 or faster to be fitted in order for AF to work. If it sees a lens fitted that is slower than that the camera will disable AF function. This might happen if you were to fit a teleconverter to a lens that was already at the f/5.6 limit.

There is no problem in using, for example, an f/2.8 or f/4 lens and stopping it down to f/8, f/11 or anything else.

There are very few lenses that are slower than f/5.6 so in practice this is rarely an issue - unless you fit a teleconverter and then you might give yourself a problem, depending on whether your new max aperture is smaller than f/5.6.

On a 1 series body the camera will AF, using centre point only, if you fit a lens (or lens/converter combination) of f/8. That's the source of the comparison.
 
Freester said:
Can someone explain to me the f/8 AF Centre point issue in plain english. Does the centre AF not work above f/8?
Click to expand...

No, on the 7D (and all the xxD series cameras) you need a lens with a minimum aperture of f5.6 for AF to work. If you take say a f4 lens (a 300 f4 for example) and stick a 1.4x TC on it, you get f5.6 and that will work. Stick a 2x TC on it and you get f8 and that won't work, unless you have a 1D series in which case it will work, but only on the centre focus point, none of the others.

BTW a Nikon D300/700/3/3x doesn't inflict this on you, there is no hard limit, although AF might not work with your f32 over extended Sigma 90000mm lens :D
 
Freester said:
Can someone explain to me the f/8 AF Centre point issue in plain english. Does the centre AF not work above f/8?
Click to expand...

If the available light that is hitting the sensor equates to being more narrow that f/8 - autofocus will not operate. This has nothing to do with if you set the Camera beyond f/8 to take a shot. :)

For example

f/5.6 lens 400mm and camera set to take shot at f/22 = Autofocus works fine
f/5.6 lens 400mm with 2x converter (effective aperture f/11ish) = Autofocus fails

However the above applies to cameras that can autofocus at f/8 but not beyond - apparently the 7D stops autofocusing at f/5.6.
 
grumpybadger said:
Yup, its an optical system like using a 550/580EX or ST-E2 as master. Can still have different channels as the data is coded and ignored if the channel doesn't match...
Click to expand...

Yup, its Nikon CLS for Canon for sure. A great way of getting into off camera flash when you only have one flash gun... and then a slippery slope as you buy more and more and more and more...
 
Another example of where Canon force us down the garden path and Nikon don't.

So you understand the technology reasons behind it, the camera always uses the widest aperture it can to obtain focus, ie if you're on a 50mm f1.8 stopped down to f8 the camera will still focus at f1.8 (and the view finder will also be displaying f1.8 unless you press the DOF preview button which stops down the lens)
 
jon- said:
Another example of where Canon force us down the garden path and Nikon don't.

So you understand the technology reasons behind it, the camera always uses the widest aperture it can to obtain focus, ie if you're on a 50mm f1.8 stopped down to f8 the camera will still focus at f1.8 (and the view finder will also be displaying f1.8 unless you press the DOF preview button which stops down the lens)
Click to expand...

It is easy enough to use a non-reporting teleconverter or to put tape over three pins of a reporting teleconverter, in order to fool the camera into thinking none is fitted. AF will then attempt to work, rather than being disabled, but results may be mixed and vary from OK to rubbish.
 
Out of interest are we sure its AF limit is f/5.6 though?

Spec sheet indicates that AF range is EV -0.5 to +18 which equates to f/8.0 (4000) ?
 
The amount of light available is a completely separate thing from the path the light takes as it passes through the lens. Wider apertures make it easier for the camera to detect the phase error in the focus - think shallow DOF where you can easily see the switch from sharp to soft. Narrow apertures mean the DOF is large and the camera cannot reliably calculate the sharpest point of focus.

Having good light is a big help, as is strong contrast, but the aperture is just as important. That is why AF performance steps up another notch with lenses of f/2.8 and faster. In short....

f/1.0-f/2.8 = outstanding AF;
f/2.9-f/5.6 = jolly good AF;
f/5.7-f/999 = unreliable AF and Canon prefers not to have their bodies underperforming by struggling with inadequate optics.
 
tdodd said:
Canon prefers not to have their bodies underperforming by struggling with inadequate optics.
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No offence but yeah right! They don't mind the 1d's centre point working past f5.6.

If they cared about their customers they'd give us the CHOICE as I would rather know I have the option of trying poor AF at f8 than to have it disabled for me -that's what the AF/MF switch is for. Instead again they force anyone who is into serious photography to either make do, or buy the 1d body.
 
Looks pretty reasonable. Without knowing the focus points chosen and whether he recomposed, it looks like focus on the wing rather than the eye I have to admit. It's so hard to tell from just a couple of prints, which is why I would really like to get my hands on one before I made any decision...
 
jon- said:
No offence but yeah right! They don't mind the 1d's centre point working past f5.6.

If they cared about their customers they'd give us the CHOICE as I would rather know I have the option of trying poor AF at f8 than to have it disabled for me -that's what the AF/MF switch is for. Instead again they force anyone who is into serious photography to either make do, or buy the 1d body.
Click to expand...

if you have to use a lens/lens + TC combo higher than or equal to f8 then you should seriously consider upgrading your lenses or make do with MF, would be chasing focus like a mother fudger on AF, nikon or canon - it's unviable, which is why it's capped
 
jon- said:
No offence but yeah right! They don't mind the 1d's centre point working past f5.6.

If they cared about their customers they'd give us the CHOICE as I would rather know I have the option of trying poor AF at f8 than to have it disabled for me -that's what the AF/MF switch is for. Instead again they force anyone who is into serious photography to either make do, or buy the 1d body.
Click to expand...

Have you thought about trading to Nikon Jon? They seem to fit your stated requirements better...
 
Yeah come to the dark (and dingy f8 viewfinder) side Jon :D
 
I would love to switch to Nikon, a D700 body would suit me well, but the cost involved to replace lenses and speedlites (i like strobist stuff) is prohibitive and I really like Canon glass.

I take on board what you're saying about f8 is very rare and it's a good point, but a 100-400 is 5.6 at the long end so 1.4x or 2x and you've lost AF. It's still fairly sharp at 800mm and shooting something like a dark plane against a bright sky is where AF has it easy.

It's not even that I think these situations will ever come up in my shooting either, it's more the principle. Why does Nikon give us choice but Canon limit us? No AF past f5.6 unless you buy pro, no more than 3 bracketed shots unless you buy pro, no decent full frame fps unless you buy pro.

I guess it's just the little things that bother me, and mostly the fact I can't afford a 1d yet! :P
 
jon- said:
Why does Nikon give us choice but Canon limit us? No AF past f5.6 unless you buy pro, no more than 3 bracketed shots unless you buy pro, no decent full frame fps unless you buy pro.
Click to expand...

Actually, its the "no decent AF" and "no non-laggy shutter" and the "no AF past 5.6" (aka "buy decent f2.8 glass or else!", well we all would if we could!) unless you buy pro that actually drove me away from Canon and into the arms of Nikon.

This 7D fixes one of those issues, which is why it is definitely worth a look if I was considering the same jump now, although I'd still plonk for the 1D probably as certainly right now the price gap between the 7D and the 1D MkIII is close enough to justify the improved performance of the 1D (which is crazily good if you have never tried one).
 
jon- said:
Why does Nikon give us choice but Canon limit us? No AF past f5.6 unless you buy pro, no more than 3 bracketed shots unless you buy pro, no decent full frame fps unless you buy pro.

I guess it's just the little things that bother me, and mostly the fact I can't afford a 1d yet! :P
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Thing is, if these features were in the 7d/non-pro camera, what would be in the 'pro' camera that you wouldn't want? There has to be a line drawn somewhere, unfortunately, you appear to be on the wrong side of it.

I use the 100-400 with a 1.4 tc (AF works due to no electrical change) on a 400d, so there is a small choice there. (in fact according to the manual of the 100-400, both IS and AF are meant to be disabled by the lens if it is on a tc).
I might use 5 shots bracketting for HDR, but I haven't had much use for 3 so far.
 
I was hoping it was going to be a full frame sensor to compete price wise with the D700 but it wasn't I guess they'd loose 5D Mark 2 sales, not enough of a difference between this and the 50D really. Unless you like the HD functionality.

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