Canon a1

Ben johns

Ben johns

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Already have the at-1 and today just got an a1 too. I like everything about the camera apart from one thing, that it just says what the camera thinks the exposure should be and not what your settings are. The at-1 has the match needle system. Has anyone else who owns the a1 found this annoying? At the moment I’ll just be using the a1 when I’ll be using shutter priority, don’t like the idea of seeing the camera thinks it should be, looking down at the camera then putting it back up to my eye
 
Ben johns said:
Already have the at-1 and today just got an a1 too. I like everything about the camera apart from one thing, that it just says what the camera thinks the exposure should be and not what your settings are. The at-1 has the match needle system. Has anyone else who owns the a1 found this annoying? At the moment I’ll just be using the a1 when I’ll be using shutter priority, don’t like the idea of seeing the camera thinks it should be, looking down at the camera then putting it back up to my eye
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Ergonomics and handling aside, how reliable are meters in old cameras such as this?

I generally don't trust or use in-camera meters, preferring to use handheld incident meters or sunny 11.
 
skysh4rk said:
Ergonomics and handling aside, how reliable are meters in old cameras anyway?

I generally don't trust or use in-camera meters, so it's not an issue that I would ever have.
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I tested it against my a6000 and it seemed fine to me. My at-1 needs an extra stop so 400 becomes 200 but it’s accurate
 
Ben johns said:
My at-1 needs an extra stop so 400 becomes 200 but it’s accurate
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Well, the scientist in me would say that being off by a stop is the very definition of not accurate, although it would be considered reliable, if it is off by one stop consistently.

At any rate, older cameras will often have their quirks. You will need to decide which quirks are worth living with and which ones aren't. If it works for you, keep the camera, if it doesn't, I'm sure that you can move it on without much of an issue.
 
I must admit I prefer the needle system of my ae1 compared to the display of the a1, but mines gotten exposure just fine so far
 
Ben johns said:
Already have the at-1 and today just got an a1 too. I like everything about the camera apart from one thing, that it just says what the camera thinks the exposure should be and not what your settings are. The at-1 has the match needle system. Has anyone else who owns the a1 found this annoying? At the moment I’ll just be using the a1 when I’ll be using shutter priority, don’t like the idea of seeing the camera thinks it should be, looking down at the camera then putting it back up to my eye
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I've just got one of these recently too and I see what you mean about the meter. It's good in shutter priority, aperture priority or program but in full manual it's not so good.

I can live without it though, it is a really great camera otherwise.
 
Just seems strange that the top end Camera of the A series had this, almost an oversight. I’m tempted to look at selling it and looking at the f1, either that or another camera with a similar meter system to the at-1. Going to put another roll through it tomorrow for more than just testing the meter then we’ll see. I only paid £45 for the a1, 50mm 1.8 and a couple of other things so should get at least what I paid.
 
Ben johns said:
Just seems strange that the top end Camera of the A series had this, almost an oversight. I’m tempted to look at selling it and looking at the f1, either that or another camera with a similar meter system to the at-1. Going to put another roll through it tomorrow for more than just testing the meter then we’ll see. I only paid £45 for the a1, 50mm 1.8 and a couple of other things so should get at least what I paid.
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You should get more than that. Mine was £65 body only and they are going for over £100 on eBay. I'm waiting for an F-1 to arrive, the downside with that being the battery. It takes a PX625 mercury battery. Other members may have ideas for alternatives, the wein cell being an expensive and short lived one.
 
Manwithacam said:
You should get more than that. Mine was £65 body only and they are going for over £100 on eBay. I'm waiting for an F-1 to arrive, the downside with that being the battery. It takes a PX625 mercury battery. Other members may have ideas for alternatives, the wein cell being an expensive and short lived one.
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Yea that’s what I was hoping, I mainly bought it as a spare as prices seem to be going up and up, it’s a shame as it feels very nice in the hand.
Didn’t realise about the battery. Really wish the Nikon f3 wasn’t so expensive.
 
Regards metering, and it has been a long time since I owned one, I thought the A-1 displayed Sutter and aperture in red LED whilst looking through the viewfinder.
 
Ben johns said:
Already have the at-1 and today just got an a1 too. I like everything about the camera apart from one thing, that it just says what the camera thinks the exposure should be and not what your settings are. The at-1 has the match needle system. Has anyone else who owns the a1 found this annoying? At the moment I’ll just be using the a1 when I’ll be using shutter priority, don’t like the idea of seeing the camera thinks it should be, looking down at the camera then putting it back up to my eye
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H'mm if the problem is about the A1?....you set f no on "AV" and it will tell you what the shutter speed is OR set to "TV" and it will tell you the F no...say the reading @ 1/125 on "tv" was f5.6 but you wanted 1/125 @ f 16 then take the lens off the "A" setting and set it to f16 and that's what you'll get.
 
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You can buy an adaptor that reduces the voltage of one of the modern batteries - not tried one myself - think the Small Battery Company sells them


Found it - see below

D
Also, for your classic camera and light meter, we stock a range of exact voltage Mercury replacement cells; the Zinc Air MRB675, MRB625 and MRB400 WeinCELLs and a range of voltage reducing adapters; theMR9-Adapter, MR44-Adapter, MR50-Adapter, V27PX-Adapter and the PX14-Adapter. We stock the MR52-Adapter Kit consisting of a physical adapter and a MRB675 cell.
 
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excalibur2 said:
H'mm if the problem is about the A1?....you set f no on "AV" and it will tell you what the shutter speed is OR set to "TV" and it will tell you the F no...say the reading @ 1/125 on "tv" was f5.6 but you wanted 1/125 @ f 16 then take the lens off the "A" setting and set it to f16 and that's what you'll get.
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I think he means when shooting in manual mode. It doesn't show the current lens aperture, but the aperture it thinks you should use, and the aperture display flashes when the lens setting doesn't match. Would be better if it showed the current settings and had a separate up/down indication (as in the Nikon FM, for example, which has optical views of the current shutter and aperture settings and uppy-downy LEDs).
 
Nomad Z said:
I think he means when shooting in manual mode. It doesn't show the current lens aperture, but the aperture it thinks you should use, and the aperture display flashes when the lens setting doesn't match. Would be better if it showed the current settings and had a separate up/down indication (as in the Nikon FM, for example, which has optical views of the current shutter and aperture settings and uppy-downy LEDs).
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Ah..must be a Canon thing as my T90 doesn't either, but another e.g. a Minolta X-700 does.
 
Ben johns said:
Already have the at-1 and today just got an a1 too. I like everything about the camera apart from one thing, that it just says what the camera thinks the exposure should be and not what your settings are. The at-1 has the match needle system. Has anyone else who owns the a1 found this annoying? At the moment I’ll just be using the a1 when I’ll be using shutter priority, don’t like the idea of seeing the camera thinks it should be, looking down at the camera then putting it back up to my eye
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I had an A-1 "back in the day". Still have it tucked away somewhere. The only time I ever recall shooting with it set on manual was when using flash or using a hand-held light incident light meter. It was marketed as an automatic camera with three, yes THREE, automatic modes! The LED viewfinder display was state-of-the-art. I suspect the decision not to include a match-needle type metering display was deliberate... Why would someone want to worry with metering when the camera can do it by itself? Automatic was the FUTURE!
 
skysh4rk said:
Well, the scientist in me would say that being off by a stop is the very definition of not accurate, although it would be considered reliable, if it is off by one stop consistently
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This is correct. This is the difference between accuracy and precision.

<off topic> out of interest chap, what is it you do?</off topic>
 
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Woodsy said:
This is correct. This is the difference between accuracy and precision.
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Precision: "marked by or adapted for accuracy and exactness" That was from Google's "define" search, which doesn't give a source. But then it did show another link that's more consistent with yours, and specifically says precision is independent of accuracy....

Consistent is the word I'd use, I think. Anyway, we're OT a bit here. :D
 
On this specific point, and indeed in this particular context, I take my cues from a chap called (prof) Ifan Hughes, who wrote an excellent text of ‘scientific measurements and their uncertainties’. He made what is an otherwise rather boring subject interesting again. Page 3 on google books preview if anyone’s interested :)
 
soupdragon said:
Regards metering, and it has been a long time since I owned one, I thought the A-1 displayed Sutter and aperture in red LED whilst looking through the viewfinder.
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It does but it only shows what it believes the correct exposure is, not what your settings are. So you have to look through the viewfinder, then look at the camera to adjust the settings before going back to the viewfinder to take the photo
 
adrianday said:
I had an A-1 "back in the day". Still have it tucked away somewhere. The only time I ever recall shooting with it set on manual was when using flash or using a hand-held light incident light meter. It was marketed as an automatic camera with three, yes THREE, automatic modes! The LED viewfinder display was state-of-the-art. I suspect the decision not to include a match-needle type metering display was deliberate... Why would someone want to worry with metering when the camera can do it by itself? Automatic was the FUTURE!
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Lol. I wouldn’t mind if I had to use it in shutter priority if the exposure comp dial was on the right of the camera. Then you could adjust exposure without taking your hand of the lens, be a lot quicker. As it is you have to use your focusing hand, then push down a button before twisting the dial, it’s too fiddly
 
Woodsy said:
<off topic> out of interest chap, what is it you do?</off topic>
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I'm a psychologist and university lecturer. My research, teaching, and practice tend to be quite multidisciplinary, typically involving psychology, movement science, and sport pedagogy.
 
Ben johns said:
Just seems strange that the top end Camera of the A series had this, almost an oversight. I’m tempted to look at selling it and looking at the f1, either that or another camera with a similar meter system to the at-1. Going to put another roll through it tomorrow for more than just testing the meter then we’ll see. I only paid £45 for the a1, 50mm 1.8 and a couple of other things so should get at least what I paid.
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Ben, wasn't this the reason you didn't buy a Canon A1 and chose instead to buy a Canon AT1 in the first place? If so, I'm struggling to understand why you're choosing to complain about this now? :confused:

I've owned my Canon A1 for over 38 years since buying it new (I chose it as the AT1 and AE1 didn't give me the functionality I wanted, and the A1 was in a different league), and I've never found the fact that it displays a meter reading when set to full manual annoying. Perhaps Canon thought that the type of photographer who would buy a new A1 would be able to remember that they'd set it to 1/125 at f/5.6 or whatever, and didn't need to be reminded of that in the viewfinder?

Don't forget, this camera was designed in the 1970s and really was cutting edge kit at the time. They opted for a digital display rather than flashing LEDs and a meter scale to keep the viewfinder clutter-free and easy to read. I believe this was only the second 35mm SLR in history to have a digital read-out display - something most high-spec SLRs started to use afterwards, and still use today! At the time, this was probably about the limit of affordable technology, so I think you need to make some allowances for age. Besides, if the camera displayed the full manual settings on the read-out, where would it display the light meter reading? In those days, adding another digital scale would have probably priced it out of the market, and adding an analogue meter needle would have cluttered up the modern-looking and clean viewfinder.

In return for putting up with what has got to be a pretty minor inconvenience to you, you have a 5 mode auto exposure camera (in a remarkably small package for what it does) that, if in full working order, can still give you fantastic and reliable results today. So perhaps just enjoy your new SLR for the fantastic piece of camera history it is... besides, if it's in full working order, I bet it guesses the right exposure more often than either of us could! :D Best of luck, and do try to stick with it as it's a great camera and it sounds like you got a bargain if it's in full working order. And don't forget to post some of the photos you take with it. (y)
 
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Ben johns said:
Yea that’s what I was hoping, I mainly bought it as a spare as prices seem to be going up and up, it’s a shame as it feels very nice in the hand.
Didn’t realise about the battery. Really wish the Nikon f3 wasn’t so expensive.
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You mention in a later comment that you only shoot in manual so why choose an F3? Take a look at the F2 instead, it's affordable (especially the bodies with DP-1 and DP-2 heads) and is fully manual with simple + & - metering (match needle or L.E.D) and aperture and shutter speed displayed in the viewfinder.

If you go Canon F1 the MR9 battery adapter as mentioned already is a great bit of kit.
 
as above really buying an a1 when you only shoot manual is an odd desision. its design was multi mode and thats why they cost more. why not just stick with your at1 if you like it.
 
Woodsy said:
On this specific point, and indeed in this particular context, I take my cues from a chap called (prof) Ifan Hughes, who wrote an excellent text of ‘scientific measurements and their uncertainties’. He made what is an otherwise rather boring subject interesting again. Page 3 on google books preview if anyone’s interested :)
Click to expand...

I think my equivalent back in the day was Topping: Errors of Observation and their Treatment. IIRC the motto inside was "Always in error, never in doubt", which is a useful guide for life, really!
 
niko said:
as above really buying an a1 when you only shoot manual is an odd desision. its design was multi mode and thats why they cost more. why not just stick with your at1 if you like it.
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I bought it because it was cheap for what I was getting. I didn’t realise at the time that it didn’t cater for manual in the same way. I like the idea of having the auto modes for when I would use it, just as an added extra but it’s not the way I mainly use cameras.
 
Mr Badger said:
Ben, wasn't this the reason you didn't buy a Canon A1 and chose instead to buy a Canon AT1 in the first place? If so, I'm struggling to understand why you're choosing to complain about this now? :confused:

I've owned my Canon A1 for over 38 years since buying it new (I chose it as the AT1 and AE1 didn't give me the functionality I wanted, and the A1 was in a different league), and I've never found the fact that it displays a meter reading when set to full manual annoying. Perhaps Canon thought that the type of photographer who would buy a new A1 would be able to remember that they'd set it to 1/125 at f/5.6 or whatever, and didn't need to be reminded of that in the viewfinder?

Don't forget, this camera was designed in the 1970s and really was cutting edge kit at the time. They opted for a digital display rather than flashing LEDs and a meter scale to keep the viewfinder clutter-free and easy to read. I believe this was only the second 35mm SLR in history to have a digital read-out display - something most high-spec SLRs started to use afterwards, and still use today! At the time, this was probably about the limit of affordable technology, so I think you need to make some allowances for age. Besides, if the camera displayed the full manual settings on the read-out, where would it display the light meter reading? In those days, adding another digital scale would have probably priced it out of the market, and adding an analogue meter needle would have cluttered up the modern-looking and clean viewfinder.

In return for putting up with what has got to be a pretty minor inconvenience to you, you have a 5 mode auto exposure camera (in a remarkably small package for what it does) that, if in full working order, can still give you fantastic and reliable results today. So perhaps just enjoy your new SLR for the fantastic piece of camera history it is... besides, if it's in full working order, I bet it guesses the right exposure more often than either of us could! :D Best of luck, and do try to stick with it as it's a great camera and it sounds like you got a bargain if it's in full working order. And don't forget to post some of the photos you take with it. (y)
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The at-1 was the first film camera I bought, I didn’t understand anything about slr’s then. I bought the at-1 because (if I remember correctly) it had been refurbished and was full manual controls.
I do understand, though it may sound like it I’m not complaining as such, I was just surprised it didn’t have it. I do like the camera a lot, it feels nicer to hold than my at-1.
I did get a good deal, it does have the beginnings of the canon squeak but other than that it works fine. I was surprised they included so much with it, came with the original manual, 50mm 1.8, a Camera bag, a polariser, a flash, extender tubes for macro and a canon sure shot Camera.
I will post some stuff, I was planing on putting a roll through it today at a family gathering but don’t think it’ll happen now
 
out of interest how do you judge your exposure when using Manuel settings? i find the canon a series meter pretty good.
 
niko said:
out of interest how do you judge your exposure when using Manuel settings? i find the canon a series meter pretty good.
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Well the at-1 has the match needle system I think it’s called so I just use that. I usually check it with my phone or Sony just to make sure it’s working then I’ll go with the camera. I trust what the a1 says
 
then if your going with the cameras metre anyway its not really any different to useing one of the semi auto modes. if you want a set fstop or s.speed just use the appropriate mode and you get the info you prefer in the view finder
 
niko said:
i find the canon a series meter pretty good.
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You have given me an idea for something to do:- I would assume my F90x, Canon T90 and EOS 300v would give the most accurate exposure reading (dunno about a Nex 3 I have)..well I could use my grey card and take a reading then compare all the cameras I have...to that.
 
niko said:
then if your going with the cameras metre anyway its not really any different to useing one of the semi auto modes. if you want a set fstop or s.speed just use the appropriate mode and you get the info you prefer in the view finder
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It’s not for most situations I agree, but I often go over or under what the meter says based off if it’s back lit or such. I would use the exposure comp dial but it’s fiddly to use
 
its easy to just click and count on ether s.speed or f.stop without moving from your eye so you can still go under or over the reading by however many stops you deem correct for compensation.
 
Ben johns said:
It’s not for most situations I agree, but I often go over or under what the meter says based off if it’s back lit or such. I would use the exposure comp dial but it’s fiddly to use
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There's a rudimentary AE lock. Unfortunately it's positioned on the front right. Takes a bit of practice to use and focus with your left hand.
 
niko said:
its easy to just click and count on ether s.speed or f.stop without moving from your eye so you can still go under or over the reading by however many stops you deem correct for compensation.
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Yea that’s what I’m going to practice doing, I always forget about the inbetqeen f stops lol. ideally I’d keep the camera but we’ll see what Happens
 
adrianday said:
The person that came up with that genius idea deserves a medal.
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As it’s an all electronic camera it must be possible to do some wiring and couple it? Half pressing the shutter activates the exposure read out so must be possible to also have it so that it locks the exposure, maybe re route the exposure lock button. Not something I’d like to play around with but must be possible
 
Ben johns said:
As it’s an all electronic camera it must be possible to do some wiring and couple it? Half pressing the shutter activates the exposure read out so must be possible to also have it so that it locks the exposure, maybe re route the exposure lock button. Not something I’d like to play around with but must be possible
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Or get a Contax RTS II :)
(or a 139! )
Setting the exposure lock locks in the EV value and you can adjust the aperture and/or shutter speed - camera adjusts the other.

There were a lot of very good cameras back then, just experimenting with what could be done.
 
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