Canon 7D mk2 owners thread.

What I meant Robin is that I found the single point AF to be quite big in this particular instance. I didn't need to move off the subject much before it refocused on something else. Changing to single point spot AF made it more accurate.

Was also the first time I tried out the different set ups programmed to the AF ON and AE LOCK buttons which worked pretty well so will stick with that set up.
 
Gaz J said:
There isn't anything wrong with birds on sticks images when they are well exposed and sharp. There is when they're not, but that's no different than anything else.

Look forward to seeing your inflight images of goldcrests, nuthatches etc
Click to expand...
A sharp, well exposed photograph does not automatically make it interesting. You need good subject matter for that. I'm not knocking the examples in the thread, but I've already done gulls and little brown birds to death and don't need to spend any more money to do it again with fractionally improved detail or IQ. I need better (more interesting) subjects, not better gear.

The thread has simply reminded me that even if I bought a new camera my subject matter would not change and spending money to shoot the same stuff all over again is not something I care to do.
 
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What defines interesting? What is interesting to you may not be to me. I find all wildlife images interesting, subject to my previous comments, whether that be from the fact that it allows me to see up close a bird or animal that I've never seen that close in the wild or from just enjoying the fact that the photographer has managed to capture an unusual pose or aspect of behaviour.

I don't see the correlation between photographing the same subject matter and upgrading equipment. If you're camera equipment allows you to fulfil your objectives then, unless you have GAS, there's no point.

PS I definitely have GAS. Poor me.
 
Gaz J said:
PS I definitely have GAS. Poor me.
Click to expand...
I used to suffer from GAS and the announcement of the 7D2 nearly tipped me over the edge once more, which is why I'm on this thread, but realising the mundane nature of my own photography I know a new camera would not make a scrap of useful difference to my results and would thus be a complete waste of money.
 
I swapped my 5D3 for the MkII purely for the crop. Time will tell if it was the right decision. Im fortunate that I've got another FF to use though.

I guess it depends on what camera you have now as to whether an upgrade will benefit. I'm fairly sure that using a 1DX last July to photograph ospreys gave me more keepers that my 5D3 would have and I don't think it was down entirely to the frame rate. The 1DX just seems to have that bit more in the bag.

Bit of an extreme example I know but its the best camera I've ever picked up.
 
For those who want something other than birds on sticks... Although I do lots of wildlife photography, the thing which really made me get the 7D2 was my dog photography, and it is proving to be extremely capable. Here is quite a challenging AF scenario - taken at f5, 1/1000, ISO 1600 on a 70-200 2.8 IS II:
 
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Gaz J said:
I guess it depends on what camera you have now as to whether an upgrade will benefit.
Click to expand...


^ ^ ^ Nail on head!

My first DSLR was the 70D a year ago - An adequate camera for my uses but the 7D Mark II potentially unlocks more potential from me.

Apart from good / interesting light, every wildlife photographer needs....

1) - Camera gear which more easily enables the photographer's vision regardless of subject.

2) - Skill and technique.

3) - Lady Luck! Anticipation and being in the right place at the right time and recognising that often very brief moment.

But if you are enjoying your photography, who cares!
 
Gaz J said:
Even with the advances in technology and manufacturing methods its inevitable that some aren't quite up to the mark. The MkII is not alone in that respect. Think 1D MkIII as perhaps the worst example but the 1DX had a recall.
Click to expand...

The 1D MkIII shows what happens when there is a real problem with AF. Canon released details of the fault and which models were affected. Strangely enough, nothing like this happened with the 7D MkI or the 70D - both of which, supposedly, suffered AF problems that were very common. I predict that the same will happen with the 7D MkII.
 
Sorry Frank are you saying that Canon will release details of the fault or that it will go the way of the 70D
 
Gaz J said:
Sorry Frank are you saying that Canon will release details of the fault or that it will go the way of the 70D
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell the 'problems' inherent in the 7D MkII's AF system are identical to the same AF problems inherent in the 7D MkI and the 70D.
 
hollis_f said:
The 1D MkIII shows what happens when there is a real problem with AF. Canon released details of the fault and which models were affected. Strangely enough, nothing like this happened with the 7D MkI or the 70D - both of which, supposedly, suffered AF problems that were very common. I predict that the same will happen with the 7D MkII.
Click to expand...
"The 1D MkIII shows what happens when there is a real problem with AF"....or perhaps shows what happens when the offending item is a top of the range body used in the main by a clientele that also buy top of the range lenses. The 1DMkIII (and 1Dx) recalls may also have some placebo effect factored in to keep the "business class" users happy that their interests were being serviced. Any potential problems with lower spec offerings are going to illicit a much more measured reaction as the margins (on the bodies and lenses) probably can't cover the costs involved. There was a similar scenario with one of the 580 flash guns......designed out and fixed for anybody who claimed but not broadcast wide enough to have the service centres inundated with parcels.

Only guessing though.

Bob
 
A few more from my first outing with the MkII. Not sure that I've quite got the processing right yet but I'm pretty happy with these for an initial effort.

ISO 1600
f4
1/1600
500 f4



ISO 1600
f4
1/1250
500 f4



ISO 800
f8
1/2000
500 f4



ISO 800
f8
1/2000
500f4

 
hollis_f said:
As far as I can tell the 'problems' inherent in the 7D MkII's AF system are identical to the same AF problems inherent in the 7D MkI and the 70D.
Click to expand...

problems listed are the same as I had with my 70d's, so intermittent where it wanted to focus it was unbelievable! I have had 2 70d's and my current one still chucks out totally miss focused images. Any money I get to save now will go on lenses I reckon. I really hoped canon would have got on top of this.
 
tdodd said:
A sharp, well exposed photograph does not automatically make it interesting. You need good subject matter for that. I'm not knocking the examples in the thread, but I've already done gulls and little brown birds to death and don't need to spend any more money to do it again with fractionally improved detail or IQ. I need better (more interesting) subjects, not better gear.

The thread has simply reminded me that even if I bought a new camera my subject matter would not change and spending money to shoot the same stuff all over again is not something I care to do.
Click to expand...

Part of the problem has been the weather and available light at this time of year.

I am looking forward to trying mine out at Saracens v Exeter which will be something new for me.
 
Has any of you guys had experience with using the 7DMkII as a portraiture body? I'm looking into getting one soon.

Cheers
 
My hobbies still are aviation, motorsports and wildlife., but lately I've been biasing towards portraiture. I still wont give up on the others and will still do them but portraiture is taking the fore.

Not keen on the 6D as its SD only and not CF, for some reason I'm put off it. 5DmkIII yes but its pricey. (scratches head)
 
Michael Smith said:
My hobbies still are aviation, motorsports and wildlife., but lately I've been biasing towards portraiture. I still wont give up on the others and will still do them but portraiture is taking the fore.

Not keen on the 6D as its SD only and not CF, for some reason I'm put off it. 5DmkIII yes but its pricey. (scratches head)
Click to expand...

....Aviation (if in flight), motorsports, and wildlife, are all do-able by the 5D Mark III of course but all the comparison reviews I've read/viewed favour the 7D Mark II for those subjects and do so without any shadow of doubt. Only you know how you use a camera and, putting cost aside, perhaps it's simply down to whether you want full-frame or not.
 
RedRobin said:
....Aviation (if in flight), motorsports, and wildlife, are all do-able by the 5D Mark III of course but all the comparison reviews I've read/viewed favour the 7D Mark II for those subjects and do so without any shadow of doubt. Only you know how you use a camera and, putting cost aside, perhaps it's simply down to whether you want full-frame or not.
Click to expand...

Link :thinking:

HERE is the best review yet from some not so happy owners.
Good news is my 7dmk2 refund cleared today :banana:
 
Neil B said:
Link :thinking:

HERE is the best review yet from some not so happy owners.
Good news is my 7dmk2 refund cleared today :banana:
Click to expand...

....Your link is not to a review but to a forum thread where some users are voicing there dissatisfaction - Rather like yourself. There are many many more 7D2 owners who are very happy indeed with their 7D2. Faults in complex machines are inevitable - What matters most is how the situation is remedied. You are getting a refund which is what I assume you wanted rather than a replacement. Personally I would have wanted a replacement but each to their own :)

I don't have time right now to trawl back and post any links to what you ask for.
 
Still interesting to read what others are saying about issues or potential issues Robin. I had another outing with mine yesterday with a mate who has just bought one.

I have been processing the files in the same way as my 1DX files and feel that at the moment I am not getting the best out of them.

Certainly they are lacking detail compared with a 5D3 and my own feeling is that once you start to crop into them the image suffers a bit.

These are from yesterday. Probably 75-90% crops.

For a bit more info. These were all taken with the Large Zone AF on Case 6

ISO 1600
1/2000
f5.6
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


ISO 1600
1/3200
f7.1
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr

ISO1600
1/2000
f5.6
500f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr

ISO1600
1/3200
f7.1
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr

ISO1600
1/3200
f7.1
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr
 
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hollis_f said:
And I'd bet large sums of cash that I'd be able to find equally whiny forum postings by owners of any mid-high end dSLR ever made.
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Maybe you could but I would say those guys are not just your average Joe :rolleyes:
 
Gaz J said:
Still interesting to read what others are saying about issues or potential issues Robin. I had another outing with mine yesterday with a mate who has just bought one.

I have been processing the files in the same way as my 1DX files and feel that at the moment I am not getting the best out of them.

Certainly they are lacking detail compared with a 5D3 and my own feeling is that once you start to crop into them the image suffers a bit.

These are from yesterday. Probably 75-90% crops.

For a bit more info. These were all taken with the Large Zone AF on Case 6

ISO 1600
1/2000
f5.6
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


ISO 1600
1/3200
f7.1
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr

ISO1600
1/2000
f5.6
500f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr

ISO1600
1/3200
f7.1
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr

ISO1600
1/3200
f7.1
500 f4
Red Kite by garyjenkins8, on Flickr
Click to expand...
Now if mine focused like this I would of kept it, looks like you got a good one Gaz and the best I've seen on here by quite a margin :clap:
 
Referring back to my post (767) in this thread, I have returned my camera back to CVP who I bought it from. They said that while they hadn't had any returned to them so far, they had been made aware of the AF problems.

I must say that the service I had from them cant be faulted. They have a 14 day returns policy. I received my camera from them on 27th November, and notified them by email of my intention to return it on the 26th December, bearing in mind that they didn't re-open until 2nd January. They didn't argue or offer any objection to it being returned even though I was well over the 14 days (that's also allowing for the Christmas break). They arranged for a courier to collect it the next working day, this being a Monday, on the Tuesday they emailed me pictures of the returned items and packaging asking if I agreed that everything that I sent was there. Within 2 hours I had a credit note emailed to me with the option of a refund if I wished. Having confirmed that I wanted a refund, this was processed and applied to my credit card on the 9th, that's 4 days after it was collected from my house I had a full refund on my credit card.

Its easy (and right) to complain when things go wrong, but equally credit should be given where its due. I can give 10/10 in every respect of the dealings I have had with CVP.

I will be buying another 7D mkII, but am waiting to see what if anything is done to correct the issues we have been discussing here.
 
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quite stunning shots Gaz the 3rd one is wonderful.

Rob.
 
Gaz J said:
Certainly they are lacking detail compared with a 5D3 and my own feeling is that once you start to crop into them the image suffers a bit.

These are from yesterday. Probably 75-90% crops.
Click to expand...

Think that's to be expected though from a crop camera vs a FF? The lenses aren't as sharp due to the whole shot using a small portion of the lens and then you add the inferior noise performance and it doesn't really lend itself to heavy cropping.

The good thing is that you won't have to crop as much as a FF though so the theory is that it all works in the favour of the 7d2 when the subjects are further away.

The shots look amazing though :)
 
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Thanks for the positive comments.

I must admit that I'm a slightly disappointed with how the image suffers when cropping in. Certainly the 5D retains its detail better on a hard crop. Can't check how the 5D looks cropped to the same size as the MkII as I sold my 5D to buy the MkII. I know that all images suffer when this happens but for me the MkII suffers more than most. Thats just my opinion and others will disagree.

Chatting with my mate, who has been using a 5D3 for quite a while, we came to the conclusion that having been used to the excellent image quality that the 5D produces we expect the MkII to match it or at least run it close and that isn't the case. Its just a matter of getting your expectations realigned.

However the potential is there. For me now its trying out the various AF options. Yesterday I shot exclusively in Large AF and case 6. Reasonably pleased with the results. Will try same zone but a different case next time.

I always feel after photographing Red Kites that if it were a football match the best result I will ever get is a draw. They are such a difficult bird to photography due to their speed. Even birds gliding around have this amazing ability to double their speed without any indication that they are about to and you're left with an empty viewfinder.
 
Gaz J said:
I must admit that I'm a slightly disappointed with how the image suffers when cropping in. Certainly the 5D retains its detail better on a hard crop. Can't check how the 5D looks cropped to the same size as the MkII as I sold my 5D to buy the MkII. I know that all images suffer when this happens but for me the MkII suffers more than most. Thats just my opinion and others will disagree.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't feel like the 7d2 is any different to other crop cameras in that area. Thanks to a lack of commitments in my life and a reasonably well paid job, I've been able to go from a 650d to a 70d and a 7d2 in the last 3 years and I don't see the 7d2 as worse that's for sure! If anything, I've dared go further up in the ISO numbers and I haven't regretted it generally :)

I've never had a FF camera so I've not had that to compare to but the theory (and what I've read online) explains why what you're saying is true about cropping shots if you're comparing them to a very nice FF sensor like the 5d3 sensor.

The real question isn't whether you can crop as well on an APS-C sensor when compared to a FF sensor... The question is, can you get a better shot of the subject in the distance with the APC-C sensor compared to having to crop a lot more on the FF sensor.
 
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Phal said:
Personally I don't feel like the 7d2 is any different to other crop cameras in that area. Thanks to a lack of commitments in my life and a reasonably well paid job, I've been able to go from a 650d to a 70d and a 7d2 in the last 3 years and I don't see the 7d2 as worse that's for sure! If anything, I've dared go further up in the ISO numbers and I haven't regretted it generally :)

I've never had a FF camera so I've not had that to compare to but the theory (and what I've read online) explains why what you're saying is true about cropping shots if you're comparing them to a very nice FF sensor like the 5d3 sensor.

The real question isn't whether you can crop as well on an APS-C sensor when compared to a FF sensor... The question is, can you get a better shot of the subject in the distance with the APC-C sensor compared to having to crop a lot more on the FF sensor.
Click to expand...

....When shooting wildlife the photographer is often suddenly and unexpectedly confronted by the subject (it happened to me today with two Deer stags on the edge of woodland). Sometimes the subject is close and other times distant and you need to be prepared for either. Regardless of image quality comparisons, an APS-C sensor gives you more reach. The 7D Mark II has been specifically designed by Canon for wildlife (and sports action).

There are too many variable factors which determine the quality of the final image - Not just technical but of course the skills of the photographer.

Naturally, most photographers seek to justify what they have spent on their camera gear and equally to justify their choices - People don't often like to admit their mistakes.

Full-frame can never be 'better' than APS-C and APS-C can never be 'better' than Full-frame. The 'better' one is the one you individually prefer using.

"Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colours and your images will stir the soul." - Jack Dykinga
 
RedRobin said:
Full-frame can never be 'better' than APS-C and APS-C can never be 'better' than Full-frame. The 'better' one is the one you individually prefer using.
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Of course it can :) You just need to know what you'll be shooting in advance. Obviously not everyone knows exactly what they'll be shooting day in, day out but then it's just a case of probabilities and you get the body and lenses that will fit your average days shooting best.

As you've said, the crop sensor can work in your favour when used correctly but everything Gaz is saying sounds like expected drawbacks of an APS-C sensor (nothing is pefect!).
 
I have been following this thread for a while and finally made the decision to purchase the 7d ii (from HDEW, my third body from them). I have used a 7D, since 2011 ,for my birding/wildlife shots with a Caonon 400mm 5.6 and the 500 mm f4. Like many others the only disappointment in the UK is the poor ISO performance in gloomy conditions. In my view pointless after ISO 800 (even 800 was poor on my copy). So in 2013 purchased the 5D Mk iii for the poorer light occasions. Fabulous image quality (great for other uses) but it does't have the reach for small birds.
So the 7Dii arrived mid week and I had a little play this weekend.
ISO performance, I need to do do more testing but I do think that it offers approx 1 stop advantage as many others have said.

My real concern was the autofocus. With reports by some of poor performance I was keen to test asap in case i needed to return the body. To date I have never had to fiddle with lens body micro adjust, and I was hoping this would be the case with the 7dii
Like the 5Diii there are the 6 AF choices together with the option to customise. In fairness I have not used the 5diii for fast action
So on saturday early afternoon good light, I had my lurcher tearing round the garden, 70-200mm f4 lens. Had the camera in the default AF mode option 1. My lurcher flies, twists and turns, lots of acceleration, deceleration, and it is plenty hard to keep the expanded cross 5 points on target.
The 10fps is fabulous, records step mid stride, next step, however I think my technique and the camera settings ( shutter speed 1/1250) were not up to the task and I had only a few keepers. My lurcher is amber coloured, smooth fur, reflects light, so in some ways is quite a hard target for the AF especially at 25mph+.

Today I repeated the exercise moved the AF point selection to 9 point and then selected option 6 in the AF menu (modifying the tracking to -1) increased the shutter speed to 1/2000.
Far higher success rate. I think This is a tough aAF assignment so the idea of getting 10 perfectly focused shots / second will still be a tall order. My technique of keeping the focus points on the dog is STILL the biggest issue.
Of course using the 7d for fast objects was always going to be easy, in the sense the only choice we all had was the AF point pattern. The 7Dii brings a whole new level of complexity and I think it is going to be some time before I understand which option or custom option for which potential moving target. I hope to come up with a custom setting that does most wildlife options, linked to AF ON back button focus. I have set up the AF options in my second custom tab so should be easy to tweak!!

My other observation is that the shutter noise is much quieter than the 7D even at the 10fps, so good for birding.
Still early days but looking good,

regards Neil
 
Yeah the 7d2 does bring a lot more tools to the table!

Shutter noise is also nice when set to quiet/silent :D
 
Phal said:
Shutter noise is also nice when set to quiet/silent :D
Click to expand...

....Except that frame rate dramatically drops if you select the quiet/'silent' mode. From 10 fps to 4 fps, if I remember correctly. 10 fps is too valuable not to have set.
 
Ive never found the need for silent mode although its pretty quiet. What I have done is set the Low speed drive to 9FPS and the High speed to 10. If I inadvertently select Low I only lose one FPS
 
Actually, although I've never used it in anger yet, silent mode will be a godsend to me in certain situations, I do a lot of otter photography in the north of Scotland and the 1 Dx generally frightens the pants off them at 12 fps, and it's "quiet" mode isn't a lot better.

The 4 fps, although a bit slow, would be better than disturbing them, and the same would apply to a number of other similar situations.
 
I think it depends what species of wildlife you are photographing. I haven't been lucky enough to photograph an Otter yet. Yesterday, I was stood on a small rock by the sea, being blown about and 3 Purple Sandpipers approached me to within the 12ft MFD of my 400mm! This gives me another excuse to buy Canon's new 100-400mm L.

I'm very pleased indeed with my 7D Mark II but note that I have never used a 1DX nor 5D3. Yesterday, before they got too close....



^ Image virtually uncropped (just a slither). More info on Flickr.
 
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Phal said:
Think that's to be expected though from a crop camera vs a FF? The lenses aren't as sharp due to the whole shot using a small portion of the lens and then you add the inferior noise performance and it doesn't really lend itself to heavy cropping.
:)
Click to expand...

I thought it was the other way round with crop bodies using FF lenses??? WIth crop you have the sweet spot of the lens, the center and your not using the outer part where lenses usually suffer?
 
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