Canon 70D noise issues

Ickle97116084

Ickle97116084

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View attachment 19879 Canon 70D Noise Issues


Please note I have searched the internet but cant really find any response or similar issues to my own.


I have had the 70D now for over 3 months and I am enjoying using the camera however my initial thoughts made me feel low iso noise was very obvious in images. I initially put this down to technique and/or post processing. I have previously used a 400D which had poor noise control but given its age and lineage I had no issue with the level of noise and removing it or choosing to shoot to avoid situations where I would get it i.e. always lower than ISO 400.


The 70D is a different matter, its 20 megapixels therefore a much more dense sensor but the algorithms for noise suppression are much better than in the 400D and the sensor technology is better. I should not therefore expect to see more noise in images at ISO 100 than I would see in the older 40D at 400-800. I have attached an example, in this image I shot in very dark conditions at ISO 100 for 13 seconds on a tripod. Image is sharp no blur due to movement but chromatic aberrations are evident. I am not at all pleased with the cameras control of noise, It is obvious, very obvious, even at ISO 100. In post processing removing the noise leads to loss of image sharpness.


Why is my new 70D so poor at capturing images free of noise at the lowest ISO setting?


Yes I shot in the dark on a tripod, I would expect some noise after post processing but not this much?


I don’t really want to have a Canon vs Nikon bashing session but experience from other 60D/70D/7D users and if my findings are similar to yours or if not is my camera sensor faulty? Should I contact the seller/Canon to have them look at the camera?


Thanks for reading,


Ickle
 
I have a Canon 500d which is good up to ISO 800 above that noise can be over baring but have shot at 3200 and got decent shots out of it with little PP.

ISO 800 sample


Whipsnade20140801-3391-50 by bthomas124, on Flickr

I see no noise at ISO 100-200 so think your processor/sensor may be faulty.
 
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I also upgraded from a 400D to the 70D about 9 months ago. I've seen a massive improvement in noise reduction at high ISO but don't often use a long exposure.

Is this a jpg or from RAW?
What in-camera noise reduction have you got set? (You can set both high ISO and long exposure in-camera noise reduction)
 
Thanks drounding it's good to know another user has good results with the 70d. I chose no In camera noise reduction settings instead I want to choose the noise reduction myself in post processing but as I mentioned earlier any noise reduction I do aggressively impacts the image sharpness. I also wouldn't expect this level of noise at ISO 100. It's terrible.

Does anyone know if canon have sent out recalls or warning notices for 70d noise issues?
 
I think it may be more important to use in-camera long exposure noise reduction.
Here's an extract from the 'Canon 70D Experience' book (I'd highly recommend it if you don't already have it):
 
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It's not just long exposures but shorter low ISO examples as well. I will check and post examples tonight.
 
OP. Could you state exactly what you are doing?

ie. You've been asked if you're shooting JPEG or raw so please state and what settings are applied and specifically if you have boosted the exposure or shadows etc.

If you're disappointed with the 400D at higher than ISO 400 and the 70D at 100 there's something wrong somewhere and the more info you can supply to help people to help you the better.
 
Of course the images tend to be noisy straight out of the camera (raw). Jpegs are noisy as well. Pushing the sharpness and reducing noise (in acr/Lightroom/photoshop Cc) is very difficult resulting in either a heavy loss of detail or excessive noise. Exposure, levels, curves, shadow adjustments all take the noise to undesirable levels in ISO 100 images. In order to provide evidence I will need to post images.
 
Can't say I have issues with my 70d and noise
 
Ickle97116084 said:
Of course the images tend to be noisy straight out of the camera (raw). Jpegs are noisy as well. Pushing the sharpness and reducing noise (in acr/Lightroom/photoshop Cc) is very difficult resulting in either a heavy loss of detail or excessive noise. Exposure, levels, curves, shadow adjustments all take the noise to undesirable levels in ISO 100 images. In order to provide evidence I will need to post images.
Click to expand...

So, again, can you and will you state clearly what settings you are applying? There don't seem to be any setting details on the image posted above and if you can't or wont state what you are doing to the images how are people going to help you? Or is the point just to have a bit of a rant about cameras that other people are presumably getting good results from?
 
i may be wrong here but if its strait jpeg from the camera it has to be done in camera ie sharpness long exp nr etc has to set in camera ,if its a raw image nearly all can be done pp ,how are you transfering the image and with what ? could you have some pre sets on and not know ,and how are you exporting them to photo shop etc ,raw ding tiff, more info is needed bud
 
Quote from The Digital Picture "In-camera noise reduction

The first noise reduction sample set used the standard noise reduction setting level (high and low settings are also available). Standard is the default out-of-the-box setting for the camera. And the results link show the reason I immediately turn off noise reduction for my default. See the oversharpening halos around the color blocks and the slightly reduced image sharpness at ISO 100? Noise reduction also degrades fine details in an image. I generally do not add noise reduction until reaching very high ISO settings, but this is of course your choice."

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx

Has the OP used the In-camera noise reduction?
 
I would always turn off in camera noise handling if you're going to process the raw
I've found similar problems with my 7D, it's just rather noisy. however, looking at reviews vs the 70D recently, I can't see that much of an improvement tbh
 
The image you've posted looks under exposed- but not particularly noisy.
 
I don't mind the exposure, as anything more might cause hotspots on a floodlit pitch, I think
however, it looks processed to the extreme, to the point that the black socks have no detail, the red shorts and socks similarly have no detail.
It's like the luminosity slider was cranked up and then it was saved as a 60% jpeg. I would not expect that shot as an untinkered output from a 70D.
 
The OP's point here is that he considers images at ISO 100 to be noisy, he's not questioning high ISO noise.
 
If I remember correctly quite a few 7D owners had the same complaint. Might be worth doing a web search and see what solutions they found or possibly a cause

Mine was pretty good, but noise did show at low ISO especially in underexposed photos like yours. Had to be very careful and ettr whenever possible, if exposure wasn't accurate noise soon became evident
 
I purchased a 70D one week ago and after two shoots its going back to the store. I have used a Sigma 18-35 Canon 50mm and Canon 85mm and noticed a lot of noise in images as low as ISO 100 and also it is missing focus when using the centre point (this is my usual setting for portraits). I have been offered a replacement by the store but I'm seriously concerned about the issue reoccurring. I previously used 2x Canon 40D and I am seeing significantly more noise in RAW images shot as ISO 100, 200 and 400. I have also been doing some research and foundother reports of the focusing but no so much on the noise.

For info shooting even in good natural light, using a monopod and 85mm, AV mode, single point focus RAW files and using lightroom CC to view. Example shot below, direct conversion from RAW to JPEg

ISO100.f4.100.26mm by Ferj Photo, on Flickr

ISO100.f4.60.24mm by Ferj Photo, on Flickr
 
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It's been almost 3 months since I purchased the 70d so I don't think taking it back is an option? Do distance selling regulations allow for returns after 3 months? I would probably upgrade to a 6d if possible!
 
If it's faulty it's covered by warranty. Contact Canon & send back to the service centre or like in my case take it back to the shop.
 
Unfortunately it's an online sale and would excessive noise need to be tested by the seller before offering credit?
 
I guess excessive noise at low ISO is a very subjective issue, it may be that canon get the camera test it and say the camera is working as per specifications. Why then would jessops offer a refund or credit following Canons assessment? The camera has many benefits over the 400d it replaced with only 1 negative and that's the noise levels.

A friend who has had many nikon bodies including a current d800 said most of the raws taken with the 70d at ISO 100 are comparable to ISO 2-4000 on his d800 or ISO 1000 on the 40d. It's not scientific but it does make me feel like this camera is seriously outclassed by the competition.

I'm fairly gutted by this problem as I would like to take some night shots and long exposures with star trails but this noise issue is going to make my images useless.

One last question, will the kit lens 18-55 is stm be a contributing factor in the poor ISO performance?
 
Was your friend looking at your raw files or talking in general?

I'm genuinely surprised as so many good reviews, I was using the sigma 18-35 which by all accounts should be a superb lens but the noise issue is present. I'm going to swap bodies & ask them to send it to sigma to calibrate then I will have a new body with calibrated lens, if focusing & noise is still a problem it will go to Canon & if not resolved it will be time to look for an alternative. You have to go through the process though.
 
Ickle, did you shoot raw? If so is there any chance you could upload the file somewhere so that we can see EXACTLY what the camera produced before any further processing?

FWIW I just tried a 30" 100 ISO raw exposure with my 7D, shot ETTR metered from the sky and then gave it a 1 stop exposure boost in Lightroom. Noise was there at 100%, but really quite trivial and not enough to ruin a picture. I know a 7D is not a 70D, but it's the closest thing I have and has its own reputation as a noisy camera.

Seeing your camera's raw output would allow easier evaluation of the camera.

p.s. If your camera supports HTP make sure it is disabled. It does no favours where noise is an issue and it affects both raw and JPEG files.
 
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Ickle97116084 said:
I guess excessive noise at low ISO is a very subjective issue, it may be that canon get the camera test it and say the camera is working as per specifications. Why then would jessops offer a refund or credit following Canons assessment? The camera has many benefits over the 400d it replaced with only 1 negative and that's the noise levels.

A friend who has had many nikon bodies including a current d800 said most of the raws taken with the 70d at ISO 100 are comparable to ISO 2-4000 on his d800 or ISO 1000 on the 40d. It's not scientific but it does make me feel like this camera is seriously outclassed by the competition.

I'm fairly gutted by this problem as I would like to take some night shots and long exposures with star trails but this noise issue is going to make my images useless.

One last question, will the kit lens 18-55 is stm be a contributing factor in the poor ISO performance?
Click to expand...

If you're getting more noise out of a 70d than your old 400d then I reckon there's either a setting that's wrong or the body is faulty.

Get some raw shots uploaded so people can have a look.
 
DizMatt said:
I don't mind the exposure, as anything more might cause hotspots on a floodlit pitch, I think
however, it looks processed to the extreme, to the point that the black socks have no detail, the red shorts and socks similarly have no detail.
It's like the luminosity slider was cranked up and then it was saved as a 60% jpeg. I would not expect that shot as an untinkered output from a 70D.
Click to expand...

I did not post it for critique. You are right it was shot in jpeg and is a small file save for a web site. Bearing in mind this was taken under the floodlights of a lower league football team a couple of 100 watt bulbs would have been brighter.

But considering it was shot at 10000 ISO there is not much noise. I previously had a 500D and shot the same ground (I do all their matches) and gave up on night games in the end.
Perhaps I bought the good 70D but have had no issues with noise or focusing.

Just as an aside you can see the shin pads through the black sock so it is not that bad. IMO
 
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I think it may be that you are asking too much from such a densely packed crop sensor.
Personally not impressed by the Canon 18mp sensor and unless they have improved it radically can't see the 20mp version being much better.

Exposure needs to be bang on and any attempt to get detail from shadow will result in noise hence the reason ettr is a better bet.

Get the exposure right under good lighting conditions and I'm sure you will have much less reason to complain
The cameras you are comparing it to have much lower pixel counts and no surprise at low iso they produce a better photo
 
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Ickle97116084 said:
View attachment 19879 Canon 70D Noise Issues


Please note I have searched the internet but cant really find any response or similar issues to my own.


I have had the 70D now for over 3 months and I am enjoying using the camera however my initial thoughts made me feel low iso noise was very obvious in images. I initially put this down to technique and/or post processing. I have previously used a 400D which had poor noise control but given its age and lineage I had no issue with the level of noise and removing it or choosing to shoot to avoid situations where I would get it i.e. always lower than ISO 400.


The 70D is a different matter, its 20 megapixels therefore a much more dense sensor but the algorithms for noise suppression are much better than in the 400D and the sensor technology is better. I should not therefore expect to see more noise in images at ISO 100 than I would see in the older 40D at 400-800. I have attached an example, in this image I shot in very dark conditions at ISO 100 for 13 seconds on a tripod. Image is sharp no blur due to movement but chromatic aberrations are evident. I am not at all pleased with the cameras control of noise, It is obvious, very obvious, even at ISO 100. In post processing removing the noise leads to loss of image sharpness.


Why is my new 70D so poor at capturing images free of noise at the lowest ISO setting?


Yes I shot in the dark on a tripod, I would expect some noise after post processing but not this much?


I don’t really want to have a Canon vs Nikon bashing session but experience from other 60D/70D/7D users and if my findings are similar to yours or if not is my camera sensor faulty? Should I contact the seller/Canon to have them look at the camera?


Thanks for reading,


Ickle
Click to expand...
The image here simply looks very underexposed.
 
Ickle97116084 said:
I guess excessive noise at low ISO is a very subjective issue, it may be that canon get the camera test it and say the camera is working as per specifications. Why then would jessops offer a refund or credit following Canons assessment? The camera has many benefits over the 400d it replaced with only 1 negative and that's the noise levels.

A friend who has had many nikon bodies including a current d800 said most of the raws taken with the 70d at ISO 100 are comparable to ISO 2-4000 on his d800 or ISO 1000 on the 40d. It's not scientific but it does make me feel like this camera is seriously outclassed by the competition.

I'm fairly gutted by this problem as I would like to take some night shots and long exposures with star trails but this noise issue is going to make my images useless.

One last question, will the kit lens 18-55 is stm be a contributing factor in the poor ISO performance?
Click to expand...
You are aware the d800 is a full frame camera? By nature it will have far better noise handling than a cropped sensor camera.

And no, the kit lens will have no bearing on noise, why would it?

The 70d is a fine camera and you should be able to get decent results out of it. Are you sure you're not bringing noise in by underexposing?

As others have said, upload the raw so we an have a look.
 
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tijuana taxi said:
I think it may be that you are asking too much from such a densely packed crop sensor.
Personally not impressed by the Canon 18mp sensor and unless they have improved it radically can't see the 20mp version being much better.

Exposure needs to be bang on and any attempt to get detail from shadow will result in noise hence the reason ettr is a better bet.

Get the exposure right under good lighting conditions and I'm sure you will have much less reason to complain
The cameras you are comparing it to have much lower pixel counts and no surprise at low iso they produce a better photo
Click to expand...

I don't think he's asking too much for the 70d to be equal to or better than a 400d/40d or whatever older Canon crop sensor camera. It sure as hell shouldn't be worse :/
 
I meant expecting to see no noise in underexposed photos.

Getting the exposure right seems to be far more important in these newer cameras.
Also take care processing the raw, being heavy handed is another way of bumping up the noise especially with sharpening
 
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I cant upload a raw or I don't a know a method to do so but here is an image captured at night using manual focus, which has lead to the image being soft, at ISO 100 for 30 seconds. No noise reduction or sharpening applied at all but I have adjusted in photoshop to bring the histogram to the centre so blacks and whites are not clipped. Exported from 70d as a raw file to jpeg at level 5 to reduce size. I made sure no sharpening or luminance adjustments were applied. Noise is very obvious. I am happy with the sky, that's the effect i was after but the grass and the stonework is very grainy.



View attachment 19924
 
The results are better than I'd have expected to be honest considering how dark the original is compared to the adjusted version. That's some pretty strong shadow detail recovery.
Nothing wrong with the 70D from what I can see.

If you have access to Lightroom then you could try the technique shown on this site.
 
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Thanks stu.ard that link seems to matx my findings. I will try the suggestions and try to expose correctly in the future. At 30 seconds the correct exposure would probably have been 2 minutes or 4 minutes. At the time I didn't have a shutter release cable but now I do I plant to test its use and the cameras long exposure capabilities.


Regards,

IcicleIcicle
 
If you are forced to underexpose due to shutter speed limitations you would be better off to raise the ISO in the camera rather than leave all the work to be done in post. This should be true up till 1600 ISO at least, but beyond that gains may be marginal depending on the camera. Also, with Canon, feel free to use 100,160,200,320. ISO and so on, but never 125,250,500,1000 etc..
 
tdodd said:
If you are forced to underexpose due to shutter speed limitations you would be better off to raise the ISO in the camera rather than leave all the work to be done in post. This should be true up till 1600 ISO at least, but beyond that gains may be marginal depending on the camera. Also, with Canon, feel free to use 100,160,200,320. ISO and so on, but never 125,250,500,1000 etc..
Click to expand...

Why can you not use those ISO settings? What will happen?
 
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