Canon 5Ds & 5Dr

StewartR said:
Just to put the debate into context, as a Canon user you have a faster AF system than Nikon, and you have super-telephoto lenses that you can carry around without needing a porter. For some people those aspects are absolutely crucial. Do we think Nikon are doing naff all about those things? No, it stands to reason, of course not. All these companies invest their R&D money where they think they can make the biggest difference. In some cases they'll be ahead of the competition and they'll push to make that lead unassailable; in other cases they'll be behind and playing catch-up. It's all normal business practice. What's the fuss about?
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Absolutely correct!
Those making out Canon cameras are 'inferior' just because they lack the DR of others are burying their heads in their camera bags!!
 
ST4 said:
Camera's don't take pictures, people do.

I'm sure if I didn't have a D800 but a 5dsomething I'd still be able to produce images I am happy with.
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But you won't be able to lift those shadows as much as u can with other cameras
 
Carlo said:
Absolutely correct!
Those making out Canon cameras are 'inferior' just because they lack the DR of others are burying their heads in their camera bags!!
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Just to be clear on this, I never suggested that they were. As per my previous posts, it doesnt matter if Canons lacking in DR with a 50MP sensor, they have the lenses and 3rd party support with fast AF. Each camp has benefits.
 
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jonneymendoza said:
But you won't be able to lift those shadows as much as u can with other cameras
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Therefore, expose it better?

But the difference we're talking about is minuscule...
 
jonneymendoza said:
But you won't be able to lift those shadows as much as u can with other cameras
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The Nikon shadow recovery is very very impressive, and on occassion I've used this ability to recover a difficult scene but 99/100 times the abilities are surplus to requirements. Decent exposure, lighting and you can do wonders with a digital SLR camera.

I am not going to switch systems, but I am confident with a canon one my results would be very similar, indentical to what I achieve from my Nikon one,
 
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ST4 said:
The Nikon shadow recovery is very very impressive, and on occassion I've used this ability to recover a difficult scene but 99/100 times the abilities are surplus to requirements. Decent exposure, lighting and you can do wonders with a digital SLR camera.
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Id agree with that to a point but often lighting isnt an option or a user doesnt want to use artificial, if youre shooting to not blow out highlights in a bright scene and other things in the scene are underexposed the more DR you have to push the darker areas the better.

How is 2-3 stops of extra recovery miniscule?!
 
twist said:
Id agree with that to a point but often lighting isnt an option or a user doesnt want to use artificial, if youre shooting to not blow out highlights in a bright scene and other things in the scene are underexposed the more DR you have to push the darker areas the better.

How is 2-3 stops of extra recovery miniscule?!
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Ok, we're adding an extra "stop" now!

As for minuscule, it's an 8th - 14th relative gain based on overall DR performance, so certainly not that much in reality.
 
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Gaz J said:
You're wasting your time arguing with the DXO fanboys. If your happy that's all that matters. Who gives a toss what ranking a camera has?

Oh forgot. The DXO fanboys do.
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odd jim said:
Ok, we're adding an extra "stop" now!

As for minuscule, it's an 8th - 14th relative gain based on overall DR performance, do certainly not that much in reality.
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12.1 stops 6D, 14.8 stops D810. nearly 3 stops, certainly nearer 3 than 2 ;)

And if you dont like the DXO numbers

https://photographylife.com/nikon-vs-canon-dynamic-range
 
Gaz J said:
You're wasting your time arguing with the DXO fanboys. If your happy that's all that matters. Who gives a toss what ranking a camera has?

Oh forgot. The DXO fanboys do.
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Funniest thing Ive read all day, DXO was used as a reference for the hard numbers.
 
twist said:
Id agree with that to a point but often lighting isnt an option or a user doesnt want to use artificial, if youre shooting to not blow out highlights in a bright scene and other things in the scene are underexposed the more DR you have to push the darker areas the better.

How is 2-3 stops of extra recovery miniscule?!
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Grad filters? Fill flash? Other lighting solutions, soft boxes/modifiers, blending exposures
 
Glad y
twist said:
Funniest thing Ive read all day, DXO was used as a reference for the hard numbers.
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Glad you're so easily pleased. And actually 2.7 stops is nearer 2.5 than 3. Expected someone who is so fond of quoting numbers to get that right.
 
ST4 said:
Grad filters? Fill flash? Other lighting solutions, soft boxes/modifiers, blending exposures
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People seem to be too lazy to do stuff in camera these days!
 
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Gaz J said:
Glad y


Glad you're so easily pleased. And actually 2.7 stops is nearer 2.5 than 3. Expected someone who is so fond of quoting numbers to get that right.
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Its still nearer 3 than 2.
 
ST4 said:
Yes, I shoot other things including events and am comfortable with fill light. I know of a chap who does stunning portraits with a 6d canon.

If ever its a case its not what you have, its how you use it, this thread proves it.
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Yes, but I wasnt talking about artificial light which you use or blending exposures and I never said you cant take stunning pictures with a 6D, its a fine camera, I said it isnt as good as the competition in terms of DR.
 
Just off to trade my 1DX for one of them Sony sensor A thingies. Looking forward to pulling all that detail out of the blacks etc. On the tiny fraction of shots that will be in focus that is.
 
Gaz J said:
Just off to trade my 1DX for one of them Sony sensor A thingies. Looking forward to pulling all that detail out of the blacks etc. On the tiny fraction of shots that will be in focus that is.
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Cant seem to recall anyone mentioning AF but enjoy the new camera.
 
DR is an interesting subject and I have recently read an article about this from a well know photographer. Basically you cant compare Sony/Nikon sensors to Canon in EV terms. Because while Sony/Nikon have sensors which can operate at 14ev and Canon at 12ev, The difference is in the noise reduction. With Sony/Nikon its baked in to there sensors and with canon its applied at the raw conversion stage. Manufacturers can make sensors with much more DR but what would happen our pictures would look flat and boring. At the end of the day its out in the field that matters and the task manufactures have is getting a suitable compromise.
 
Hotshots said:
DR is an interesting subject and I have recently read an article about this from a well know photographer. Basically you cant compare Sony/Nikon sensors to Canon in EV terms. Because while Sony/Nikon have sensors which can operate at 14ev and Canon at 12ev, The difference is in the noise reduction. With Sony/Nikon its baked in to there sensors and with canon its applied at the raw conversion stage. Manufacturers can make sensors with much more DR but what would happen our pictures would look flat and boring. At the end of the day its out in the field that matters and the task manufactures have is getting a suitable compromise.
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Thats an interesting theory but do you think you can recover the colour data lost in the blown image and reduce the grain/lost data and chroma and get it as fine and clean as the Nikon sensor in this link using software?

https://photographylife.com/nikon-vs-canon-dynamic-range
 
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twist said:
Thats an interesting theory but do you think you can recover the colour data lost in the blown image and reduce the grain/lost data and chroma and get it as fine and clean as the Nikon sensor in this link using software?

https://photographylife.com/nikon-vs-canon-dynamic-range
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If you're relying *that much* on DR for that sort of extreme recovery, you're a sh*t photographer ;) *

The main difference in those images is the noise, Nikon applies the NR on a base level whereas with Canon you need to dial it out in post so it's not as obvious as that link makes out.

* the hypothetical "you"!
 
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twist said:
Thats an interesting theory but do you think you can recover the colour data lost in the blown image and reduce the grain/lost data and chroma and get it as fine and clean as the Nikon sensor in this link using software?

https://photographylife.com/nikon-vs-canon-dynamic-range
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Like I said they operate in different ways and I would be surprised if the differences where that huge. its like comparing apples an oranges. Manufactures are always making wild claims.
 
twist said:
Cant seem to recall anyone mentioning AF but enjoy the new camera.
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We didn't. And in your world we wouldn't consider it either. Also the dynamic range you keep banging on about is low ISO DR. As the ISO rises the gap narrows. Another reason to evaluate a potential purchase properly.

Anyway. Enough of this. I'm off to take pics with the best camera In the world. The one that makes me happy. Better than some. Worse than others. Just like everything else.
 
Gaz J said:
We didn't. And in your world we wouldn't consider it either. Also the dynamic range you keep banging on about is low ISO DR. As the ISO rises the gap narrows. Another reason to evaluate a potential purchase properly.

Anyway. Enough of this. I'm off to take pics with the best camera In the world. The one that makes me happy. Better than some. Worse than others. Just like everything else.
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Nope, youre wrong. In my world I consider all the factors, my post was specifically about DR and still is and I do know its got a lead at low ISO but it also has a lead all the way through the ISO range.

EXACTLY, thats the most important thing.
 
odd jim said:
If you're relying *that much* on DR for that sort of extreme recovery, you're a sh*t photographer ;)

The main difference in those images is the noise, Nikon applies the NR on a base level whereas with Canon you need to dial it out in post so it's not as obvious as that link makes out.
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Not really, I see a lot of photographers wanting more DR rather than less, more recovery is a good thing, you cant expose for all areas of a high contrast scene in a single shot.

Nonsense. But we can agree to disagree and put this to bed. Thanks for the discussion though and no hard feelings.
 
This is hilarious. 99% of the middle to top end cameras (and probably a large percentage of the low end ones) are capable of outperforming 99.9% of the people using them. So unless you are in the 0.1% I guess it doesn't really matter.
 
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twist said:
Not really, I see a lot of photographers wanting more DR rather than less, more recovery is a good thing, you cant expose for all areas of a high contrast scene in a single shot.

Nonsense. But we can agree to disagree and put this to bed. Thanks for the discussion though and no hard feelings.
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Why would there be any hard feelings? We're only discussing DR and i only came back to it to reaffirm that the 6d does have good DR, more than I'll never need. None of this was personal, just a discussion about a commercial companies products which none of us has any allegiance to, I don't know why people get offended when we discuss kit?

The rest of it though was a waste of time, there was no need for endless links comparing the DR between 6d and d800 as that was never being debated, we know the d800 is the cream of the crop in that, and pretty much all other sensor regards :)

But as per bythesea's post, most of these cameras have more ability than most of us will ever need!
 
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I know what you mean, I guess things on a forum or via any text based communication can be misinterpreted as its not like a face to face chat.

I guess wether we need it or not depends on what and how we shoot. At the moment Im using highlight metering with the D750 quite a bit as an experiment, it allows me to expose correctly for any blown highlights/brightest areas very quickly and easily, a consequence is pretty much everything else is underexposed, but because I can push in post so much it doesnt really matter that much. I end up with a well exposed image with very little to no noise in the areas I pushed fairly heavily. Kind of like using fill.

Ive used enough cameras and systems to know that they all have positives and negatives. Its never Win Win.
 
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When I first started looking at wedding photography threads, I saw discussions regarding how to expose for the bride's gown versus the man's suit.

I'm happy if higher dynamic range allows you to concentrate more on capturing the moments instead of whether you're losing detail in the highlights
 
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dancook said:
When I first started looking at wedding photography threads, I saw discussions regarding how to expose for the bride's gown versus the man's suit.

I'm happy if higher dynamic range allows you to concentrate more on capturing the moments instead of whether you're losing detail in the highlights
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Thats it, to some photographers it does matter to others it doesnt as is evident from this discussion. Down to the individual.

On a side note, hows the new 35?
 
twist said:
Not really, I see a lot of photographers wanting more DR rather than less, more recovery is a good thing, you cant expose for all areas of a high contrast scene in a single shot.

Nonsense. But we can agree to disagree and put this to bed. Thanks for the discussion though and no hard feelings.
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Thought it was quite civilised compared to some threads.

But I have to say Twist that I'm not sure if you would be the right person to ask to recommend a camera to someone.

Can see the conversation going a bit like this.

PERSON. Hey Twist I need a new camera. What would you suggest?

TWIST. Well person just get the one with the biggest DR and you'll be just fine.

2 months later

PERSON. Got that camera Twist. Biggest DR on the market. 24 stops EV. Having a bit of trouble though photographing the racing cars I bought it for at 2.5 FPS

TWIST. I bet you can pull detail out of those tyre til you can see the grain of the rubber though.

PERSON. Yeah I can. Just wish I had a few more frames to do it on. :) :)

no hard feelings!!
 
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