Canon 5d Mk1 - an upgrade on 50d?

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Steve_P

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Hi, just wondered whether a 5d Mk1 would be considered an upgrade on a 50d. They still seem to command a reasonably high price. I'm more often than not disappointed with results from my 50d and am considering changing it. Trouble is, I'll have trouble justifying a big hike in price eg to a 7d or 5d mk 2. Main interests are portraiture as well as trying to get decent photos of my energetic 3 1/2 year old! Any comments appreciated, thanks.
 
What disappoints you about photos from your 50D?
Most likely you need a better lens rather than body.

The 5DI would be an upgrade in terms of noise and dynamic range performance (plus larger format means it's possible to get shorter DoF for creative purposes) and it'll have a much larger brighter viewfinder than the 50D, but apart from that it's older tech so it'll be a downgrade in all other areas like the screen.
So in terms of the technology it's not really an upgrade, but in terms of the images it can produce it would be. BUT, lenses (and technique of course) are the major factor in image quality.
 
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Thanks, squishy - appreciate you taking the time to reply. I guess investing in better lens(es) would be the sensible option for the time being. I think general iq has been disappointing with my 50d with photos rarely pin sharp and often slightly darker than expected. Probably down to my (lack of) technique! Lenses I have are the 17-85 kit lens as well as 55-250 and 50mm 1.8.
 
Those are reasonable lenses (especially the 55-250 and 50mm for what they cost), but definitely worth upgrading them before your body (you'd have to anyway for the 5D, both the 17-85 and 55-250 are EF-s so wouldn't fit a 5D).

Personally in your shoes I would trade the 17-85 for a tamron 17-50 f/2.8 non-VC (has an excellent reputation as the best value for money standard zoom about) and the 55-250 for a 70-200 f/4L.
And maybe add a nice short prime like the 35mm f/2 if you want.
Those upgrades should give visibly sharper images for about the same overall cost as a 5DI body (and that's not taking into account the fact you'd have to upgrade lenses as well for the 5D!).

If images are usually coming out dark, try exposing to the right as standard (always dial in +1/3 or 2/3 EV exposure compensation to the right).
 
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daugirdas said:
I'd say 5D + 24-105 and 85/1.8 is a much better proposition. IQ will be miles better; don't be put off by the age. It only means it has a lesser screen
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It doesnt sound as if he's using the 50d properly, so if he doesnt use the 5D properly he'll get the same results. The 50d is capable of some superb portraiture, I've used a lot of bodies including the 5d mk1 and 2 and the 50d is easily on par (with the mk1) with most things and unless you are picky, for your average user you wouldn't notice much improvement.

I'd suggest the op learns how to use the 50d and improving his technique, then re-assessing.
 
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odd jim said:
It doesnt sound as if he's using the 50d properly, so if he doesnt use the 5D properly he'll get the same results. The 50d is capable of some superb portraiture, I've used a lot of bodies including the 5d mk1 and 2 and the 50d is easily on par (with the mk1) with most things and unless you are picky, for your average user you wouldn't notice much improvement.

I'd suggest learning how to use the 50d and improving your technique, then re-assessing.
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Don't forget some people see full frame as a panacea, however wrong they may be! ;)
 
menthel said:
Don't forget some people see full frame as a panacea, however wrong they may be! ;)
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True!
 
Steve_P said:
Lenses I have are the 17-85 kit lens as well as 55-250 and 50mm 1.8.
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The 17-85m and 55-250mm are AFAIK EF-S lenses, only the 50mm is a full frame lens, so if you go to a 5D you'll have to sell the EF-S lenses and buy replacements.

Just thought I'd point that out just in case you'd missed that as it adds to the hassle and cost.
 
woof woof said:
The 17-85m and 55-250mm are AFAIK EF-S lenses, only the 50mm is a full frame lens, so if you go to a 5D you'll have to sell the EF-S lenses and buy replacements.

Just thought I'd point that out just in case you'd missed that as it adds to the hassle and cost.
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Thanks, Alan
 
odd jim said:
It doesnt sound as if he's using the 50d properly, so if he doesnt use the 5D properly he'll get the same results. The 50d is capable of some superb portraiture, I've used a lot of bodies including the 5d mk1 and 2 and the 50d is easily on par (with the mk1) with most things and unless you are picky, for your average user you wouldn't notice much improvement.

I'd suggest the op learns how to use the 50d and improving his technique, then re-assessing.
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Thanks for your suggestions Jim. I think I know how to use the camera, but probably the technique needs a bit of work :) Results from the D50 don't somehow seem to match those I had from my Nik*n D200 beforehand, so I just wondered how the 5D I might compare.
 
Steve_P said:
Thanks for your suggestions Jim. I think I know how to use the camera, but probably the technique needs a bit of work :) Results from the D50 don't somehow seem to match those I had from my Nik*n D200 beforehand, so I just wondered how the 5D I might compare.
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Sorry didn't mean to sound patronising, I didn't mean for it to come across that way! The only reason I suggested technique/camera familiarisation was that you mentioned sharpness and exposure, two things that are relatively easy to nail on the 50d, but that said, maybe getting better lenses would help with the overall sharpness. But saying that, I got fantastic results with the 55-250.
 
Thanks Jim, there's no doubt I need to work at getting to know my way around the camera better in terms of focusing & exposure. Glad they're fairly easy to nail - just need to figure out how now! Good to get some advice from someone who's used the cameras mentioned and I really appreciate your comments. Cheers, Steve.
 
Well, i have been using my 50D the last couple of days and i am a complete novice. I only have the 50mm 1.8 and i am gobsmacked by the quality of some of the shots! Ones i have taken of my daughter are really nice. So, even though i know sod all about photography i am so happy with the IQ of the 50D. I have been using it on AV.
 
One me the things I've noticed about the 50D is that for some types me shooting it prefers to be exposed to the right by up to a stop.
The plus point there is reduced noise and if you do need to pull the exposure back slightly, a quick amendment in PP is fairly simple.
 
If you have any tips to share Jim I'm all ears too.....

I keep looking at full frame thinking its might be the way to go the same as steve.
 
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tris101 said:
If you have any tips to share Jim I'm all ears too.....

I keep looking at full frame thinking its might be the way to go the same as steve.
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What would you like tips on??

(btw its not just the 50d I use, I use a few Canons, and at work I use Nikon :eek:, but the 50d is my personal weapon of choice!)
 
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best ways to nail sharpness and exposure.

Sorry for the high jack Steve....

Exposure always seams a little under exposed, I normaly add a little exposure comp. what the best way to work out what you need to add?

Seams a little noisy, this is worse if under exposed.

Focus. I use mainly single shot, single point in Av but it can be a bit and miss. my subject is my 2 year old daughter and she is always on the go so its hard to get sharp focus on the eyes. Shutter speed I try and keep up 250/sec+ on my tamron 50mm at around F4.

I have tried taking pics of fast moving objects like birds and MX bikes jumping but these are not very often sharp, I think it more me then the 50d.
What setting should I be using for this type of photo?
 
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I Have the 500d but use the 50mm f1.8 and the 55-200mm to great effect, I find the key to pin sharp images is to go Manual focus rather than auto focus especially with the 50mm. I know it's hard to use manual focus on moving subjects but for portraits etc I find I get much better results

I've just bought a Sigma 24-70 f2.8 and have already seen a noticeable difference in noise reduction in low light having f2.8 available right through the range makes it very versatile.
 
tris101 said:
best ways to nail sharpness and exposure.

Sorry for the high jack Steve....

Exposure always seams a little under exposed, I normaly add a little exposure comp. what the best way to work out what you need to add?

Seams a little noisy, this is worse if under exposed.

Focus. I use mainly single shot, single point in Av but it can be a bit and miss. my subject is my 2 year old daughter and she is always on the go so its hard to get sharp focus on the eyes. Shutter speed I try and keep up 250/sec+ on my tamron 50mm at around F4.

I have tried taking pics of fast moving objects like birds and MX bikes jumping but these are not very often sharp, I think it more me then the 50d.
What setting should I be using for this type of photo?
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Noise is only really an issue for under exposure. The 50d has excellent high ISO, see my posts in this thread;

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=348209

Also how you process can massively effect noise. I use Canon's DPP for high iso images which is far cleaner than Photoshop/Lightroom.

If you think its under exposing, slide the comp up until you are happy with it. I've set mine up so the rear wheel adjusts the exposure comp so I simply tweak my thumb and its done!

I'm not surprised you miss the focus on your daughter when shes up and bouncing around with 'one shot', youre using the wrong setting. ANYTHING moving, I use AI Servo and it never misses a beat, and this includes shooting F1 cars at full chat. Focusing on the eyes well thats a technique issue I'm afraid, and I say this as its the same with nailing any small point of interest, any subject or camera movement will throw it out. I normally hold my breath when focusing on the eyes, but for this, use one shot focus. Its a hit and miss thing with any body, keep shooting until you get the shot.

As for the fast moving subjects, it depends what you want to achieve. AI servo focus certainly. For freezing the action, AI Servo, AV mode with high ISO. For panning, TV mode with whatever speed you feel you need and AI Servo. Only use a single focus point for a moving subject otherwise you risk the focus locking onto the background.

Do you shoot raw or jpeg?

If you shoot raw, processing is as important as the shoot itself.

What software do you use?

I have to say, sharpness and exposure are the very basics and this is totally independent of the body, any techniques used to nail exposure and sharpness are universal, whatever the body?
 
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Thanks for that.

I shot raw and L Jpeg.

I use PP CS4 I'm not an expert but can work my way around it slowly.

I dont use Canon's DPP so I will give it a try.

How do you balance the exposure comp I look at the histo and try and get it centered and have blinks on and try to strike a balance so the subject is not blown.

I have had some great pics but my hit ratio is not very high, This is me not the equipment I'm sure. My tamron 90mm seams to be the shapest lens I have, I'm saving for a sigma 50 f1.4. When printed most look ok but I'm not happy with just ok, others say my photos are great but I know thats not the case. I'm always ready to learn/improve and looking at some photo on here I have a way to go.

I have used AI Servo in AV sigle point focus but again not with a great hit ratio,I mainly use the canon 70-200 f4 IS. I need to practise more I think.
 
It's wrong to think of full frame as necessarily an upgrade - there are advantages and disadvantages to both formats depending what you mainly shoot. The higher cost of full frame bodies reflects the high cost of producing these sensors - although prices are coming down it's still an expensive process with a high failure rate of the finished sensor in quality control testing.

Both high pixel count bodies like the 50D and full frame sensors demand good lens quality and both really punish cheaper lenses, so I think you should be looking at improving your lenses rather than looking to full frame to produce an improvement.

I agree with Jim that you'll get the best noise performance from Canon cameras using DPP.
 
I have the 50D and never had issues with images or the quaulity. I am still on that steep learning curve but getting higher all the time. I ALWAYS buy the best lens that my wallet will allow, that way you know its you, and not the camera or the lens at fault.

Try messing with the settings and see what happens with the lens you have, its a digital camera and costs you nothing to change the settings and have a look.

spike
 
If focusing and frames per second are a problem then a 5D wouldnt really help you very much as its much the same as your 50D in that reguard. The 7D on the other hand does improve on those areas while still having a crop sensor you could use for EF-S lenses on. If you want improved autofocus on a full frame camera it would need to be a 1D or 1Ds.

I'd add that if your unsure about upgrading were on the verge of seeing many new Canon models appearing over the next year(5D/1D/1Ds/7D). When they do appear its likely the used prices for older models will come down a fair bit so something like the 5D mk2 or the 1Ds mk2 may be in your pricerange.
 
Moreorless said:
If focusing and frames per second are a problem then a 5D wouldnt really help you very much as its much the same as your 50D in that reguard. The 7D on the other hand does improve on those areas while still having a crop sensor you could use for EF-S lenses on. If you want improved autofocus on a full frame camera it would need to be a 1D or 1Ds.

I'd add that if your unsure about upgrading were on the verge of seeing many new Canon models appearing over the next year(5D/1D/1Ds/7D). When they do appear its likely the used prices for older models will come down a fair bit so something like the 5D mk2 or the 1Ds mk2 may be in your pricerange.
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Fps on the 50d is twice that of the 5d.

5d - 3fps
50d - 6.3fps
 
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Thanks it was the 500mm f/4L and it would have been wide open - given the poor light I wasn't able to stop down so I wouldn't say the shot is really optimally sharp to what the 50D can actually do.

There's nothing at all wrong with the 50D, I still use mine if it falls to hand first. Noise performance of the 7D is perhaps half a stop better and there's a little more effective reach but isn't a night and day difference like upgrading from a 30D or 40D to the 50D. Where the 7D really scores of course is in the better AF system and lots of little features which combine to make it it a great package.

Edit

Apologies - I just checked the raw file and this was actually taken with the 500mm and 1.4X TC and stopped down just one stop to f8. Anyway - far from an optimal shot as far as sharpness goes but still perfectly acceptable.
 
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Moreorless said:
Didnt realise the 5D was that slow, another reason agenst making the change I spose.
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Yeah even the mk2 is only 3fps, one of the reasons I havnt bought one!
 
i'm on the verge of buying 5dmk1 on monday but the 50d is still in the back of my mind. i'm using a 30d at the minute with a sigma 24-70/2.8 and have recently started second shooting at weddings so i've found the 24mm a bit restrictive at times so i'm going to try full frame to open things up a bit for me. i'm also picking up am 85/1.8 to add a bit of reach when on the 30d and for the portrait use on the 5d.

i know the 50d will have better high iso capabilities than the 5d(which by all accounts is similar to my current 30d in that regard) but i can live with that because the 5d seems to have some intangible quality to the images it produces-even compared to the 5dmk2. a lot of the talk on potn seems to bear this out, but it may be rose tinted glasses and 5dmk1 fan-boys perpetuating this. who knows!

the question for me boils down to whether i want the smaller depth of field the 5d will offer me for creative puposes, or the better high iso of the 50d for cleaner images. the other differences between the two bodies make no big difference to me tbh. at the minute the 5d is winning and i can always upgrade the 30d at a later date or chop the 5d for a 50d if i don't get on with it i suppose.
 
The 5D vs. 50D debate depends almost entirely on what you shoot really.

Full frame/5D is perfect for landscapes, portraits and indoor use. 50D is perfect for high speed such as sports, still perfectly adequate for portraits but not so much landscapes due to a crop sensor offering less dynamic range. This can be counter-acted with post processing though.

Also depends on your lens collection/choice. Full frame demands the best glass you can afford which will mostly entail 'L' grade, or maybe Tamron SP at a push. Crop sensors are a lot more forgiving on cheaper lenses because it's not implementing the whole space of glass so things such as vignetting/distortion can be compromised.

If you want a high FPS full frame camera, you buy a 1Ds which will do all the above.
 
2Thumbs said:
The 5D vs. 50D debate depends almost entirely on what you shoot really.

Full frame/5D is perfect for landscapes, portraits and indoor use. 50D is perfect for high speed such as sports, still perfectly adequate for portraits but not so much landscapes due to a crop sensor offering less dynamic range. This can be counter-acted with post processing though.

Also depends on your lens collection/choice. Full frame demands the best glass you can afford which will mostly entail 'L' grade, or maybe Tamron SP at a push. Crop sensors are a lot more forgiving on cheaper lenses because it's not implementing the whole space of glass so things such as vignetting/distortion can be compromised.

If you want a high FPS full frame camera, you buy a 1Ds which will do all the above.
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I find the 50d perfect for landscapes!
 
Re: "Sorry for the high jack Steve..."


No problem Trist, I have similar issues and was about to ask Jim pretty much the same questions.
:)
 
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lexie said:
i'm on the verge of buying 5dmk1 on monday but the 50d is still in the back of my mind. .
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Let us know what you decide and if you go for the 5dmk1 how you get on. Are you concerned about shutter actuations on the 5D? Sellers don't seem to be able to provide the info (eg LCE said they couldn't tell me)
 
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The Hi iso pics Jim posted on the other post are very sharp.
 
Steve_P said:
Let us know what you decide and if you go for the 5dmk1 how you get on. Are you concerned about shutter actuations on the 5D? Sellers don't seem to be able to provide the info (eg LCE said they couldn't tell me)
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No problem steve, i think i'll be ordering a 5d on monday from mpb tbh. I'm second shooting next friday so it'll be getting a good workout. The actuations can be checked using eosutilities as far as i know? but so long as they aren't excessively high and it doesn't look beat out i'll be happy enough. The condition should be hopefully be a good indicator to whether it's been around the block a bit or not.

The mirror repair is more of a concern so i'll be looking into that as a matter of priority i reckon. But i'll report back on this thread when i have a bit of experience of using it, hopefully it will help others with their decision.
 
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