Canon 580EX II / 430EX II off camera flash

chocky

chocky

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Si
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Hey all.

Ive got a 430EX II now and will be getting a 580EX II in a couple months. Am i right in thinking the 580 has some sort of built in wireless trigger? So for instance the 580 mounted on hotshoe and then the 430 off camera and will fire when the 580 fires? If any of you have used it like so how reliable is it? Is it infra red or radio? Or would i just be better getting a wireless trigger? If so, Ive not got a budget to speak of but im only after one that does the job and does it well. As you may be able to tell im not experienced in off camera flash (or on camera flash more to the point!!) so any help appreciated.

Also, im after a decent light stand with the same quality as mentioned above, not hugely expensive but one that does the job well. If any of you have some recommendations that would be ace :thumbs:

As always thanks for the help.

Si
 
Yes, the 580 is a master controller and will work as you say. It's E-TTL so auto functions are retained. It uses visible/semi-IR light to transmit data which goes out as a pre-flash immediately before the main flash. It all happens so fast you can't see it with the naked eye and it just looks like one flash.

E-TTL works very well indoors, and also outside if it's overcast, the distances are reasonably close and you maintain line of sight. But if the sun comes out, it's usually pretty difficult and unreliable, though their are workaround solutions for that.

If you go radio, such as with the very good (and cheap) little Yongnuo RF-602 triggers, they are completely manual only. E-TTL with radio is very expensive.

For a stand, get a Konig for about £12 I think. Amazon or 7DayShop.
 
Awesome thanks mate. Forgive me of this is a daft question but isnt IR line-of-sight? As in if there are a few people between me (and the 580 on camera) and the 430 on a lightstand, will it still be able to function?
 
It is line of sight of sorts (basically it's a complex tv remote ) it can be a bit hit and miss depending on the conditions they work best indoors however with a bit of practice they are flexible just not as flexible as a radio based system.

As for stand I'd recommend the manfrotto 001b nano small form lightweight and very well built, cost slightly more about £31 each but will last a life time, mine take massive abuse and never fail, and they are small enough to pack down into a camera bag
 
chocky said:
Awesome thanks mate. Forgive me of this is a daft question but isnt IR line-of-sight? As in if there are a few people between me (and the 580 on camera) and the 430 on a lightstand, will it still be able to function?
Click to expand...

As Zilly says really. Line of sight in that the receiver window has got to see the coded pulses at a sufficient level of brightness, and also sufficiently differentiated in brightness from the ambient light.

In practise, this means that it's pretty foolproof indoors where the ambient level tends to be low and the light bounces around, finding its way to the remote slaves one way or another. You can sometimes completely hide a remote gun behind ornaments and under tables and it will still fire (don't bank on it though!).

Outdoors the ambient washes away the signal so you need to point the master directly at the slave, and keep the distance as short as possible. One way to do that is to take the master off the camera on an extension cord, and that's actually a pretty reliable way of getting the IR system to work under almost any conditions, particularly if you also shade the sensor from ambient as much as possible.

But often, it's just not practical to do that and radio is very liberating in just allowing you to park the guns anywhere you like, at any distance in any light, and they'll always fire. The other thing with radio/manual is, if you're putting up two or three flashes on stands, then a couple of minutes extra setting the power levels manually isn't really a problem, and indeed manual (where everything is locked and cannot change) is often the preferred choice.

E-TTL is at its best when you need to shoot fast and get the exposure right first time with zero messing about. It's incredibly good for that (and it's unique features like high speed sync). But if you've got time, manual is good, sometimes better. Nice to have the choice though ;)
 
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Awesome, thanks both :)

Now then.... and this ones important lol :D do either of you know any books/cheap dvd's that will teach me everything about off (and on :D) camera flash? I can use it in auto no problem but im assuming manual is better (same as a dslr)

Cheers again :thumbs:

Si
 
Syl Arenas new book is pretty good for learning Canon off camera flash.
 
Can I hi-jack the thread and ask a quick question? Really sorry to do this but feel a whole new thread might be a little OTT. Sorry Chocky.

When using 420ex, 430ex, 550ex, 580ex, do all of these provide the ability to use AF assist WITHOUT firing the flash? i.e. Use just the AF assist of the Speedlite to aid focussing and not fire? Is this a limitation to the Speedlite model or an in body camera limitation/function? If the later, can a 50d be setup to use it in this way?

Many thanks
 
chocky said:
Awesome, thanks both :)

Now then.... and this ones important lol :D do either of you know any books/cheap dvd's that will teach me everything about off (and on :D) camera flash? I can use it in auto no problem but im assuming manual is better (same as a dslr)

Cheers again :thumbs:

Si
Click to expand...

www.strobist.com is where you start then look at hot shoe diaries by Joe Mcnally



@clicktor

580 can not too sure about the rest.
 
clicktor said:
Can I hi-jack the thread and ask a quick question? Really sorry to do this but feel a whole new thread might be a little OTT. Sorry Chocky.

When using 420ex, 430ex, 550ex, 580ex, do all of these provide the ability to use AF assist WITHOUT firing the flash? i.e. Use just the AF assist of the Speedlite to aid focussing and not fire? Is this a limitation to the Speedlite model or an in body camera limitation/function? If the later, can a 50d be setup to use it in this way?

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Not sure.

You can do it on a 580EX (and presumably 580MkII and the 550) with a workaround, because they are master controllers - ie, switch to master, disable main flash, although the pre-flash will still fire.

That book Kris suggested by Syl Arena looks very good. There's an extensive preview of the contents on Amazon here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedliters...105X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299243927&sr=1-1

For a more technical look at how things work, N K Guy's book Mastering Canon EOS Flash is very good, and for a more inspirational read, the brilliant Hot Shoe Diaries by Joe McNally is excellent (he uses Nikon, but it all applies).
 
HoppyUK said:
Not sure.

You can do it on a 580EX (and presumably 580MkII and the 550) with a workaround, because they are master controllers - ie, switch to master, disable main flash, although the pre-flash will still fire.

That book Kris suggested by Syl Arena looks very good. There's an extensive preview of the contents on Amazon here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedliters...105X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299243927&sr=1-1

For a more technical look at how things work, N K Guy's book Mastering Canon EOS Flash is very good, and for a more inspirational read, the brilliant Hot Shoe Diaries by Joe McNally is excellent (he uses Nikon, but it all applies).
Click to expand...


yes that NK Guy...guy...has a good write up on EOS Flash here.


As for using AF assist without emitting flash, from a google, it seems it might be dependent on body and speedlite combination although is not clear. I might start a new thread actually to get some other opinions or to see if somebody flat out knows from experience. :) Thanks
 
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clicktor said:
yes that NK Guy...guy...has a good write up on EOS Flash here.


As for using AF assist without emitting flash, from a google, it seems it might be dependent on body and speedlite combination although is not clear. I might start a new thread actually to get some other opinions or to see if somebody flat out knows from experience. :) Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, that's a link to NK Guy's excellent blog. Tons of stuff there, and more on his links - but it's not for the faint hearted on technical matters :eek:

The more I learn about Canon's E-TTL system, the more complex it gets. Canon doesn't say much about the inner workings, but it seems to be clear that there are basic operating principles overlaid with differences according to camera model and flash.
 
I have to say I found that Blog amazingly helpful. I mean the 3 pages worth of EOS flash stuff. I spent half a day reading it yesterday as I am thinking of getting a speedlite soon and felt I knew "a bit" about flash but needed to recap and get some of the basic fundamentals down. Well that blog does that and then some going off into advanced chat on kelvin temperatures and mathmatical equations to understand light fall off! Very detailed, BUt, even I could follow it fairly easily throughout most of it.

PS: Started a new thread about AF assist
 
Thanks all, will read through the blog i think and buy the syl arena book on my kindle.

As always youve all helped immensely :) Thanks very much :thumbs:

@clicktor, i dont mind at all :)

All the best

Si
 
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