Canon 580 ex Flash help needed.

wippers

wippers

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Gareth
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Hi Guys - I'm looking for some basic pointers on how to use a Canon 580ex flash gun. I'm taking some family photos of children playing in a field tomorrow night and would like to try to use the flash for a little bit of fill light on the faces, but I have no idea how to set the flash gun up as it's one I've borrowed.

Is there a pretty basic auto setting I can stick it on or do you think it's just going to be more trouble than it's worth?

I know there's a huge amount of learning to be done with flash which unfortunately I don't have time for on this occasion, so any help or simple pointers would be most welcome.


Thanks for reading.

Gareth
 
On camera for fill?
Make sure it's in HSS mode so that you can use any shutter speed, leave it in ETTL, and adjust the FEC to taste.
 
Flash Exposure Compensation. There'll be a setting for it on your camera somewhere.
It's like dialing in exposure compensation on the camera, except it adjusts the power of the flash above or below what the camera has metered for it instead.
 
simplest thing to do is to point it up to the ceiling and add about +1 exposure compensation. Stick your camera at X sync speed unless you are balancing with ambient (don't forget colour temperatures - flash is daylight weighted - so would look weird mixed with sunset or tungsten)
 
daugirdas said:
simplest thing to do is to point it up to the ceiling and add about +1 exposure compensation. Stick your camera at X sync speed unless you are balancing with ambient (don't forget colour temperatures - flash is daylight weighted - so would look weird mixed with sunset or tungsten)
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Bouncing should be taken care of by ETTL, my FEC is almost always on minus settings as I hate fill flash that's overdone, if you slightly under do it, you can pull up the exposure in post, if you overdo it you create shadows which will ruin an image irreparably.

Flash mixed with a sunset just makes the sunset warmer if you warm up the picture a little. Great colours can be had if you experiment with gels but this is getting beyond simple. ie if you use a green gel to make a cityscape background a little more natural it really brings out the magenta tones in the sky.
 
Got it. I know where the FEC adjustment is done on the camera so will play with that when shooting until I get the fill I'm looking for.
As I will be outside, would I point the flash directly at the subject as I have nothing to bounce the flash off?
 
I use a 580ex flash whenever I shoot street events like war weekends, like Phil the settings are ETTL/HSS and FEC on a minus setting. I generally use aperture priority on camera, set the ISO to 200, that means I can forget about the shutter speed knowing it will be generally fast enough for hand held shots.

I usually start by dialling in -2/3 stop on the flash and -2/3 stop on camera, then feel my way to a balanced light, adjusting as needed.

Because it's street photography, sophisticated lighting set-ups are out of the question, so I use a stofen diffuser on the flash to soften the light.

1DSL3887s.jpg
 
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kennysarmy said:
I know there is no such thing as a stupid question....but.....have you thought about what you are asking here?
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A stupid question it may be, but I have no knowledge or experience of using a flash sadly so needs must I'm afraid.
Massive thanks to everyone who has helped me. Not sure the results were amazing but I did my best with the knowledge I had.


PS - I'm going to have a play with bouncing from a reflector and see what results I get. This is all just for fun so thankfully my limited knowledge got me through I think.
 
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Too late for Wippers, but for anyone else reading, fill-in flash outdoors is really easy. On-camera flash, on-axis, is just the job and actually the pop-up also does a good job here.

There are two exposures going on, flash and ambient light, and the trick is to balance them optimally. With Canon, set Av (and make sure the flash Av mode is set to Auto/default in the menu) and the camera will then set the basic exposure for correct ambient. Set the flash to E-TTL and the camera will adjust the flash power output to balance with the ambient.

And most of the time it does a pretty good job, but flash can be a tricky business with lots of variables, and also the right flash/ambient ratio is subjective. Most people would say err on the side of under-exposing the flash rather than over. The idea is for the flash to compliment the ambient light, not dominate it - lifting shadows and putting a sparkle in the eyes, but always looking natural.

So, if you don't like the flash/ambient balance that the camera comes up with, you can adjust both independently. Adjusting the normal exposure compensation on the camera will change the shutter speed to lighten/darken the background (without affecting flash exposure). Or use flash exposure compensation (FEC) on the back of the gun to brighten/darken the flash output (without affecting the background).

Working outdoors, the shutter speed will often need to rise above the camera's x-sync ceiling, which is where high speed sync (HSS) comes in. So enable HSS on the back of the gun, and it will switch itself in and out automatically as necessary. Just remember that HSS uses a lot of power so max range is reduced, and also recycle times will be quite long even at close distance.

On another point, using a Stofen outdoors has zero effect on softening the light, as it has nothing to bounce the light off, and is mostly just a waste of power (though there can be other, more subtle benefits).
 
HoppyUK said:
T

On another point, using a Stofen outdoors has zero effect on softening the light, as it has nothing to bounce the light off, and is mostly just a waste of power (though there can be other, more subtle benefits).
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Quite happy to agree to disagree on this point, my view is that the shadows are softer (more diffused) using a Stofen diffuser against not using one, even with fill flash, but perhaps those are the 'subtle benefits' you referred to?
 
Les McLean said:
Quite happy to agree to disagree on this point, my view is that the shadows are softer (more diffused) using a Stofen diffuser against not using one, even with fill flash, but perhaps those are the 'subtle benefits' you referred to?
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To make the shadows softer, the light source must be made larger - a lot larger than the tiny Stofen cap that is no bigger than the bare flash itself. Stofens, like all flash 'diffusers' need a ceiling or wall to bounce off, so outdoors it can't do anything (except waste power). Easy enough to do a test comparison ;)

The more subtle benefit is that at close range with a Stofen, the extra height given by tilting the flash head upwards makes the modelling/shadows more attractive and shadows cast behind the subject will fall a little lower and be less intrusive. And given that at close range you can afford to waste a bit of light, there's always the chance that something might bounce back from whatever is close by (clothes, people standing nearby etc) and anything you get from that is a bonus that can do no harm.

In the shot of the two girls above, what is softening the shadows there is the ambient light that is very nicely balanced with the flash :thumbs: But you can also see a hard shadow line under the girl on the right's chin. That area is heavily shaded from ambient so the effect of the flash is more prominent.
 
Les McLean said:
Quite happy to agree to disagree on this point, my view is that the shadows are softer (more diffused) using a Stofen diffuser against not using one, even with fill flash, but perhaps those are the 'subtle benefits' you referred to?
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I think the balance in that portrait is really nice, but as Richard said, technically the shadow edge is getting very little from the Stofen if you look close.
 
HoppyUK said:
In the shot of the two girls above, what is softening the shadows there is the ambient light that is very nicely balanced with the flash (y) But you can also see a hard shadow line under the girl on the right's chin. That area is heavily shaded from ambient so the effect of the flash is more prominent.
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Phil V said:
I think the balance in that portrait is really nice, but as Richard said, technically the shadow edge is getting very little from the Stofen if you look close.
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Since when has this turned into a critique thread? you are both experienced photographers, and I respect your opinions, I'm also a reasonably experienced photographer, so I hope you will respect my views also. In my experience, using a stofen helps soften shadows, and I've used it for long enough to know that is does. If it doesn't for yourselves, or you don't believe it does, that's fine, after all a variety of opinions is the spice of forums like this.
 
It's not a question of respecting anyone's views Les, but a question of physics. Try it with/without a Stofen outdoors when it's dark, so there's zero ambient light affecting things.

For a useful bit of softening outdoors, the Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer works well, as it increases the size of the light source by about 6x, and it also raises the light source a bit higher http://store.lumiquest.com/lumiquest-pocket-bouncer/ Or the similar accessory I use a lot, Lumiquest QuikBounce that is a very versatile device for both outdoors and bounce/fill indoors http://store.lumiquest.com/lumiquest-quik-bounce/
 
Les McLean said:
Since when has this turned into a critique thread? you are both experienced photographers, and I respect your opinions, I'm also a reasonably experienced photographer, so I hope you will respect my views also. In my experience, using a stofen helps soften shadows, and I've used it for long enough to know that is does. If it doesn't for yourselves, or you don't believe it does, that's fine, after all a variety of opinions is the spice of forums like this.
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Sorry Les it was never meant as critique, just that the stofen really has little effect and if you look close, the image backs that up.

My personal recommendation is the flashbender, because it takes up so little space and can be used as a snoot too. But frankly from any kind of distance it's still a small light source.

You're free to use whatever you like, and to hold whatever opinions you want too. As I said I like the shot, what we differ on is what the Stofen has added to it.
 
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